₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
Stop claiming one misses the point when one merely disagrees with you! I told you in the beginning that this thread was pointless since it was just another 'your god is better than everyone else's god thread. You protested at the time, but here you are with your true colours exposed trying to engage me in such an argument! The reason I said it was pointless was that any evidence that either side provides would be called crap by the other. And trying to prove anything to a person who is willing to believe things based on their faith regardless of the evidence, is stupid.

budaatum:
Do you know how many people died in Latin America when the Spaniards landed there?

budaatum:
Or would you claim the Spaniards did not go to Latin America in the name of God, or were not religious?

budaatum:
How about the many people carried away as slaves from the coast of Africa by Christians?

budaatum:
How about the numerous purges and crusades in Europe, specifically in the name of God?

budaatum:
How about the human sacrifices in what became Latin America?

budaatum:
You did after all claim you didn't mean your god, so do they count towards deaths caused by religion too?

budaatum:
Lets also add deaths in China during the periods when Taoism and Confucianism was their religion, and the deaths caused during the Arabic slave trades, they after all did have a religion; and the numerous deaths during the expansion of the Roman Empire and those between what became the Greek states. They too had religions with gods, so shall we say religion or god killed people then too?

budaatum:
How about the numerous deaths in even Nigeria during the wars between the Muslim south and the Southern pagans, or those amongst the Yorubas, who all had religion? Do those count? Or are the numbers not big enough for you?

budaatum:
I bet you would claim those terrorists killing people all over the world today are Muslims, and that they are killing people in the name of Allah, but you would likely point out that those who kill in the name of God are not true God followers.

budaatum:
Go to any prison in any nation today and count how many religious people you would find in jail for murdering someone. Would you not find more people who believe in a god in prison than atheists?

budaatum:
Even a simple record of killings of other human beings done in any country on any day of the year would have been committed by religious people if only for the fact that religious people out number those who are not religious by a significant amount.

budaatum:
Yet you are quick to believe what religious apologetics have presented to you are deaths caused by atheists because it suits the narrative you wish to believe!

budaatum:
Your claim that atheists nations have killed more people than religious ones is false and relies on spurious uneducated evidence.

budaatum:
The truth is that people have instigated killings for their own selfish ends and blamed their gods or no-gods for those killings.

budaatum:
A classical example of this exists in the Bible itself. Despite it being written that God told people to kill others, the truth is that no god told anyone anything of the sort and people have simply attempted to justify their own actions by claiming God told them to kill people.

budaatum:
When Bush and Blair said God told them to invade Iraq, we treated them with the derision that they deserved and should treat such historical claims with the same derision that they deserve.

budaatum:
Go read some history winner, and stop believing things you have no evidence for.

hahn:
Where is the answer?

budaatum:
I told you your sole intention on opening this thread was to "my god is better than yours", or didn't I? And I repeatedly said that it is difficult for you to accept evidence that opposes your position. You fail to accept any evidence that refutes your claim and have concluded your assertion is therefore valid. Kingebukasblog tried doing the same in a thread where he would be the defendant, judge and jury and we treated his stupidity with the scorn he deserved. Expect your thread to be treated the same way. Or read the counter narratives already presented to that claim. Those with eyes see.

budaatum:
You are incorrect in thinking religion shapes outlook. Your error stems from the biggest lie you Yahweists have bought into, that "God created you in it's own image". It is actually the other way round, your outlook defines your religion and builds your society.

Human societies have always created their gods in their own image, and according to their very own understanding. And religion is created to align you, the masses, to that created image of god. That's why some call it opium!

Europe was alway religious, winner, even now! Those who rule need religion to control their masses and would hardly abandon that control. But they allow their religions to evolve, which is why they progress. When their religious beliefs become rigid beliefs, and do not evolve over time, the dark ages is the result and death and decay sets in. That is the current situation in Nigeria, and which will only change when an reorientation of the contents in people's head occurs. A 4000-2000 year old understanding cannot be superior to current understanding. Societies that dwell in the past and refuse to evolve, die!

Please be aware that you are free to believe whatever you want to believe, and no one has a duty to educate you. That duty is your's and you don't have to take it on if you don't want to. You seem to not have sufficient knowledge of the history of certain aspects of development of societies and nations. If I'm not wrong, I think you already have some sociological knowledge. Though, I think it's rather of the basic sort, but it will be adequate for you to understand the sociological aspect of history, which I advise that you immerse your head in. It is my opinion that you are intelligent enough to have your eyes opened if you but want them to open. Though, I could be wrong.

frank317:
Lol, I have always wondered why exactly God will put an ordinary mortal like me in hell after judgement(if there is eventually one). Its not like I am in any competition with him for anything, i didn't sleep with his wife neither did I hurt him in any way... Am I even capable of hurting the creators feeling? I just fukking used the brain he game me... See no God believe no God.

I sometimes wish the judgement day was real. It will be the best day of my life or after life. Imagine talking one on one with God and asking him questions that will make him look silly just they way i have made Christians felt.

God will b like.. "U didn't believe me by faith, go to hell!"

Me: " seriously? U whole problem was that I believe u by faith? Pls get me the real creator, one who has real issues with me"

budaatum:
Tanhā, as explained here.

budaatum:
Even I get worked up when I see that nonsense! Just by mere virtue of the fact that religion has been in existence far longer than atheism, is sufficient evidence to debunk that claim, but it seems Christians believe on here otherwise and refuse to acknowledge that fact.

It is not "evidence", winner01, but plain ignorance presented as if it was. Any sane person knows more wars and more killings have been done in the name of god than not. And if they don't know, I strongly suggest they read some history!




There's a fallacy for what you've done here. When others have gone through the list of fallacies that I posted, they'd find some that describes it.

I presume it is based on the false information you quoted at the beginning of this post that atheists have killed more people than have been killed by people who profess a religion. I'm afraid it is your belief. And there is nothing true about it.

Let, me just reiterate the point that more wars have been fought in the name of gods in the entire history of time, and more people have been killed because of fights over gods than over just about anything else, ever.

But as I mentioned in my initial post on this thread, no amount of evidence would make another change their beliefs unless God itself tells them otherwise, so I wouldn't expect you to not continue parroting that nonsense. I, will pray for you for you though. You can be saved!

budaatum:
Nations that we say have developed did not do so on 'beliefs', winner01. They did go through long periods when 'beliefs' reigned supreme, but it was a period of stagnation, and in Europe, was called the dark ages, when many died because of the ignorance that they believed in.

And then it was said that "Let there be light", and the Age of Enlightenment came about.

Please read up on this so you understand what we Nigerian atheists are fighting for in our Nigerian society and minds. We are very tired of relying on the unreliable NEPA!

budaatum:
I don't believe that! Is it not written, that "he was crucified, died, and was buried, and he descended into hell. And on the third day he rose again; and ascended into heaven, and he is seated at the right hand of the Father, judging the living and the dead". And also, "Know ye not that ye are gods?, who "will do even more than He has done"?

You need to stop with the believing, winner01, and understand so you too would know!

hopefulLandlord:
What if God actually exists but only atheists would be allowed into heaven? I find it bizarre how theists never thought about that possibility. like we die and God goes "HopefulLandlord, I exist but the test is to weed out those that would believe something on no evidence, you passed. you may pass"

Melvyn11:
We live in a real world but believe in a magical afterlife....where 7billion of us will stand in judgement and an angel bearing a huge "Book of Life" will look up names and make us watch our sins n life time on a HD 1,000,000 'inch screen. Must be lit

hahn:
Define this "God" first. What is it?

frank317:
So u open a thread for an undefined God.

Well I assume we are talking about ur God.

Majority of counter posts here are from Christians so...

frank317:
After years u are still talking like a kid.

PrecisionFx:
What is acts chapter 11?

Evangkatsoulis:
What language would the "I AM GOD: I EXIST" be arranged in? And how do you know if the everyday arrangement of stars spells "I AM GOD: I EXIST" in ancient languages long forgotten and that it's english equivalent is not a possible arrangement?
Again, why 5 minutes? Shebi the light we see from stars are from thousands or millions of years ago? Wouldn't that mean that God would be answering the prayers of someone millions of years ago?
And if I may ask, how does star arrangement prove that a transcendental being created the universe?

hopefulLandlord:
I don't know if your intelligence level dropped too low or you're just playing dumb

I'm a weak person and I know it but say I'm strong. that's not hope, that's lying and not being hopeful. you're simply trying hard to blur the line between hope and lies but you're doing a horrible job of it. there's no spinning this. a person that's weak, knows he's weak but says he's strong is lying

If he says he'll be strong then he's being hopeful. if he says he's already strong then he's lying

I think I'm done with this discussion. I have a knack for knowing when a discussion is just being dragged on unnecessarily when the facts are there and plainly obvious to anyone with a brain

budaatum:
It really does not matter whether Christians bother about the beliefs of atheist, though they do! The first question many Christians ask on meeting one is, "Are you born again?" Then they judge one by making out one is no good unless one 'accepts Jesus Christ into one's life!' But it matters not to an atheist that they do. Beliefs must be scrutinised regardless, by oneself or by others, as that is how society learns moves forward and evolves.

budaatum:
Ok. Then let those who can, or wish to, be humble. It would be a suitable chanda[/] to replace the [i]tanhā of arrogance.

I myself would keep wiping a mirror on this one.

budaatum:
Then there must be a fault in your ability to notice!

Atheists are not the only ones who are hostile and rage, winner01. Your first response to me on this thread was hostile, and I said so. But atheists also start threads to ridicule Christians who are hostile and rage in return. Some even threaten others with their imaginary hell and damnation.

We taunt one another, winner01. We both open threads to mock and ridicule one another. I accused you of that in this thread, and you have proved me right in numerous posts of yours! There's even an ape amongst you who's sole purpose is to be apish, and not one of you tells it to evolve!

A serious fault in noticing, if that's not noticed, I'd say.

budaatum:
The alternative to "believing" is to skeptically check for evidence with a critical mind, and not just accept what one is told.

Atheist give examples of this but as I said in my initial post on this thread, we would hardly accept the evidence of the other as conclusive proof of the their position. Whatever either of us says sounds like crap to the other person. Observe an example of the stubbornness involved where vaxx argues that Buddhism is self contradictory or self defeating despite it being pointed out to him that it is not contradictory to replace tanhā desires with chanda desires.

Besides, atheism with is skeptical rationalism, stands directly opposed to "believing by faith in the unseen", so you can hardly not expect a war. They are distinct points on the evolutionary scale and observable in the history of more advanced nations. We are fortunate however, in that our weapons are words - be they full of rage and hostility - and not, imprisonment, torture to recant and burnings at stakes if we don't, that pepper the history of nations that went through the same arguments before us.

I guess we cracking eggs to build powerful people!

budaatum:
Lol! Are you looking for another label to pin on buda? How about "Atheist Pagan Christian Buddhist Muslim" - as I also do the Quran, and if one is to be defined by one's studies. And Atum, being the first in the Egyptian pantheon, does denote my pagan element. And maybe Philosophical Scientists too, if we could call it a religion. But that would be like defining an elephant by it's trunk.

My studies influence me and my thinking, but I wouldn't claim I am more one or the other or limited to those mentioned, for even if one were to take all the trees and the water in the oceans, multiply them by seven then bake them into bread, one still should vary one's diet.

I am a human being who has spent quite a lot of time studying the text of many religions in search of the "Kingdom of God" (and do have to be mindful of mixing my metaphors so it don't sound like meaningless crap, to some). I have found that once one finds, some do not just go off to heaven and sit on the right hand of God. They descend into hell and try to figure why the world is so fuqed up, despite all the baking of bread, and try to be the change they want to see.

hopefulLandlord:
I haven't seen the future so I tell her she has a bright future based on his/her actions of today. of course I'm only making a prediction and that's obvious to anyone with a brain.

However saying that's the same a weak person being told to say "he's strong" commits fallacy of False Equivalence if he says "I'll be strong" then it wouldn't have necessarily been lying but a weak person saying he's strong despite knowing he's weak is flat out lying, I know you won't understand, as always

NB: "Read to understand not respond" This is something you should be doing, stop projecting

frank317:
Yet we are talking about a God that has infinite knowledge, someone who created the world in seven days with just words, someone whose ways are beyond our ways, yet he loves us so much that he wants us to know him... Sadly u are here telling us how impossible it is for him to prove himself to ordinary humans like us despite him wanting us to know him.

frank317:
In order words, u don't even know the meaning of helter skelter here. People are responding to each other and u say one party is running helter skelter.
This is what I call butterflylion syndrome.
U speak and someone responds and u go about shouting the person is running helter skelter, meanwhile ur own restlessness brought about the opening of this thread.

Back to op (even though ur delusioned religious mind will see it as running helter skelter): I think I agree with u here. If God exist we wouldn't have atheists in the first place. Here we have a Christian who believes God can only exist by faith and if atheists don't have faith then he cannot exist to them.
So if I decide that I do not want any prove that God exits, I just want to believe without thinking it through, he will definitely exist "in my mind" as usual.
However if I need prove, his existence wouldnt be possible to me.

Summary of this thread... God cannot be proven.

tintingz:
What exactly do you want?

PrecisionFx:
""True and supported by available evidence""




Israelites can't start calling the followers of Jesus "Christ like" because they never at any point in history accept Jesus as "Christ/Saviour".

In Israel Jesus was no Christ, no saviour and no God. From his birth, death, resurrection n Ascension, Israelites never accepted or called him God or Christ. They all knew him as the carpenter son of Joseph the carpenter.

hopefulLandlord:
What has that got to do with this?

hopefulLandlord:
There's a difference between being hopeful and lying but you wouldn't know...

frank317:
What exactly is your definition of helter skelter here

Seun:
If, within five minutes after a specific prayer by a theist, the stars in the sky were rearranged to spell I AM GOD: I EXIST, and it could be seen by everybody, and it could be scientifically confirmed by every astronomer that that the stars had indeed been moved around and it wasn't just an optical illusion, then I might be convinced that there exists a great mind out there which is capable of moving stars around in response to prayer.

Can any theist make this happen? (cc: winner01)

Seun:
If, within five minutes after a specific prayer by a theist, the stars in the sky were rearranged to spell I AM GOD: I EXIST

Seun:
and it could be seen by everybody,

Seun:
and it could be scientifically confirmed by every astronomer that that the stars had indeed been moved around and it wasn't just an optical illusion

Seun:
then I might be convinced that there exists a great mind out there which is capable of moving stars around in response to prayer.

hopefulLandlord:
I'm an atheist and I insult gods and religions

budaatum:
I agree with "through his lifestyle", which I would rephrase as 'doing the will of God', so why bother with the the preaching to atheists at all then? Shouldn't the Christian be so busy doing the will of God with "forceful conviction" that they shouldn't really have time to be 'preaching' to some stupid hell bound atheist?

Some people would claim Christianity is a lifestyle, to which, I agree. If they wish to preach, they should perhaps live accordingly instead of bothering about what one believes, maybe.

budaatum:
Na, I'm not having that! The Lord Jesus Christ never did "humble attitude" when dealing with those who were atheistic to his position. "Meek and gentle" he did, but there was nothing humble about him, so I don't know where you get that from

Christians are not fighting against flesh and blood and are told to put on the full armour of God, war like things, with nothing "humble attitude" amongst them. Also springs to mind are the fruits of the Spirit, they mean way more than "humble attitude", in my opinion

Please consider "Christians should use 'wisdom' anytime they engage in these discussions". It is not only screaming from the rooftops begging people to have some please, but "for God so loved the world" as well, and not just believing, as some might think. After all, how can what even the devil does, become such a godly thing? There is a huge difference in "humbly turning the other cheek" and "turning the other cheek wisdomly."

budaatum:
Ah go way! This may be a religious section, but that might be because we Nigerians do religion more than talk philosophy, which is actually what we do here, search for knowledge and wisdom.

Religion is what one does when they think they already know it when in actual fact they merely believe, and no one needs to come here to argue about their beliefs. I can bloody well believe whatever I want and not present it for scrutiny. And I'm sure no one can enter my head to see my beliefs and claim they are false or wrong! But as soon as I present my beliefs or opinion on here I should expect them to be scrutinised, and even mocked and ridiculed, and I should grow a thicker skin or I should shut the fuq up.

The truth is that, "Nobody can mock my Almighty God who art in my head, and besides, when they mock me on it's behalf, I should rejoice, for they simply mount more blessing upon me by their mockery".

But let's do the atheist's perspective . When I come here, I rejoice because if I were not here challenging the validity of your beliefs, you would remain as a child believing as a child and not have had to develop knowledge so that you become grown up and acquire wisdom and become better capable of living godly.

Also, by challenging you on the existence of your God you sow your seeds as words to counter whatever I might say. Then others come along and read what has been written, and if the seed were good and the soil good too, the seed would blossom into an abundantly fruit giving tree. Can you see the benefit therefore, of challenging one another? Not only is your iron sharpened, but mine becomes sharpened too, as well as that of the silent observers.

budaatum:
Hmm. I don't think the above is more true than to claim the aggression is from both sides. Nor can I determine which side has the medicine that causes this aggression as there seems to be culprits on either side.

Aggression is the medicine of fools and the unwise, and ought not be found in those who have been baptised with the Blood of Christ. But if a person creates a thread or post that provokes one (for example my 'silly' post to rekinomtla above), that is the medicine that makes the other respond aggressively. I wonder if you'd agree if I were to say "Blessed are the peacemaker" might not apply to buda in that case. I assure you, buda burned in hell for being so silly to dish out aggression medicine and had to confess her sin and ask forgiveness to relieve the burning her silliness caused her. She even has to continously repent to make up for it, which would have been needless if she hadn't sinned to begin with!

budaatum:
You like this "humble" word, I see. And I do see where you are coming from. It is true that if I don't hear you out I might call stuff "crap" without properly comprehending it, or use the word 'silly' without considering or caring about the impact I may provoke by it. I'd say that is a lesson I hope I learn and never make again, so help me God.

But we'd have to find another word for it. I hate the word, humble, because it's generally accepted meaning is that I should allow others to ride all over me, which I, buda, know that I shall never do because I was brought up on it and found it gave every Chukwudi, Mohammed and Adebola the perceived right to talk down to one thinking one were weak!

I rather confound ignorance with intelligence and wisdom than with aggression and stupidity, and know to leave the latters to......., well, let me attempt to be holy on this Sabbath and not name him today please Lord!

darkchild64:
That is not my business,whether the whole world believes in god I don't care,you know its very funny u are trying to use that against me,you very well know that Christianity makes up less that half of the world population that means that majority of people on earth do not recognize Yahweh as the true god so trying to comfort yourself by playing my enemy's enemy is my friend would not work in this case because even christians do not agree amongst themselves on very sensitive issues including Jesus divinity.

darkchild64:
I can only speak for myself,the evidence that would make me believe in god is if I have a clear revelation of who he is(assuming he exists) and he makes it clear what he wants from me,if that happens and I refuse to acknowledge and worship him then that is when I can properly be called a fool,look there are a lot of challenges we as atheists pass through in life,you think we don't want to close our eyes and say a few words and everything becones fine,

darkchild64:
,look I don't know the prejudice you have against atheists but for me I have no problems with christians or religious people at all all I demand is you give me the same respect I accord to you,I am a full grown human I know what I want in life,you don't love me more than I love myself,I was a raises as a christian and at a point in my life was a vibrant one whether u wish to believe it or not is not my business,I stopped believing in god because what I saw in the Bible didn't correspond to what I experienced maybe its different for you fine,be a Christian I'm not trying to convert you its life live it the way you want,but for me I can only believe in god if I get a clear revelation about him,no I would like u to show me how illogical my reason or demand is

hopefulLandlord:
encouraged by telling them to lie about their condition? okay

PrecisionFx:
So what gas this topic achieved?

PrecisionFx:
The word Christian is a word created by the Roman empire who created the religion Christianity.

PrecisionFx:
Christians today (which are mostly intelligent people) try to sell the rhetoric that the word Christianity came into being after the death of Jesus Christ wen Israelites addressed to followers of Jesus as people living a "christ-like" life.

festwiz:
To be honest, this thread achieves nothing.

#peace

Seun:
Can’t we deal with the actual topic?

darkchild64:
This is the point I have been trying to make,what serves as evidence to one person my seem foolish to the other so the only way to get around it is for "God" to reveal himself to everyone if that happens,no one needs to assume anything or convince anyone rather everyone will be saying the same thing,unless that happens you would always have atheists,agnostics and different faiths and even different denominations and tenets within the same fairh

hopefulLandlord:
))"Let the weak say I am strong"

Some even added "Let the poor say I am rich"