₦airaland Forum

Religion always trying hard to find common ground with science while science doesn’t care what religion has to say.

MaxInDHouse:
And how will such a therapist view you when you and all your faculty can't come together to make peace reign in your gatherings despite all your education?

Why are you trying hard to justify a talking snake?

MaxInDHouse:
Good! If i need a medical checkup then what do you need since you believe in people who says there is no supernaturals?

I am sure the therapist will take it as an emergency when you tell him about talking snakes

budaatum:
Sorry workch, but a discussion is only an argument if one refuses to see other points of view and insist on their own view. And perhaps that's the intention of this thread of your's but not what I can justifiably be accused of except by the ignorant rigid believing types who are stuck believing what they believe whether they be theists or atheists. Both are as ignorant as each other, in my opinion, because they equate the crap they create in their heads and believe as actual knowing, when in truth, the fact they merely believe implies they are ignorant.

P.s. I am not accusing you of believing since you have admitted to being agnostic, as in, you don't yet know, and are, I assumed, seeking. Accept my sincere apologies.

ok noted, cheers

MaxInDHouse:
You keep stumbling on the same block!

The book never said SNAKES talks but that something happened and ONE snake talked so get your facts right before thinking of arguing!

Still a snake talked and you believe it
You need a medical check up

budaatum:
My apologies. I thought you wanted to open eyes.

Yes, but I am not ready for the unending argument that you want to initiate.

MaxInDHouse:
The same book that talked about wireless communication, plasma TV and aircraft thousands of years before humans began discovering how possible it is says a snake once talked why do you think a sane person will doubt such a book!

I didn’t know that I have been conversing with a grown man who think snakes talk

MaxInDHouse:
NO! It says something happened and a snake talked not that they will continue talking. That's where you've been scammed because you believe in evolution today yet those teaching you can't present animals evolving from nonliving things but you believe them anyway since you choose to do so!

And you believe that a snake talked

budaatum:
Though I bet, not understood, I think, hence you being agnostic too, which implies you are still seeking.

It's one thing railing against some imaginary God, but railing against the God book is, well, not exactly intelligent, since its a rather informative book, if only but as well as enabling you to understand the programming of those around you, and the power of writing, and farming, in fact.

I put it to you that you are rightly atheistic towards Christian beliefs, and you are agnostic towards the book because you are blinded by the ignorant beliefs of Christians which blind you to its understanding.

I mean, very early in the book are you presented with two types of people. An imaginary dumb enslaved ignorant naked believing fearful of death trembling Adam, and an imaginary disbelieving use her own senses wisdom seeking Eve. I find that very informative myself, especially considering what is written to have happened to them afterwards. It shows to choose which one would rather be, and as we see, Christians choose to be ignorant Adams while disregarding the choice they are given.

If you can be bothered to read the book bar the ignorant beliefs I think you might appreciate it a little and feel even more sorrow for the dumb believers. If they understood and obeyed the Jesus they ignorantly believe in, they'd all choose to be ask and knock and seek Eves instead of ignorant believing Adams.

I'd ask you to read the Quran for perspective and the folly of eating only bread, but fear you might think I'm asking you to believe that instead of understanding it.

P.s. Sorry I'm insisting. Perhaps my Lordreed might explain it to you better, him being an atheist too.

You don’t need to repeat yourself, your opinion is well noted man.

Cheers

MaxInDHouse:
Well if the book that says it could know so much thousands of years before those who teaching you atheism today. Then i'll go for the book not atheism!

The books says snakes can talk

MaxInDHouse:
Of course you have been fooled so many times but whether you agree or disagree those people teaching you atheism have nothing to offer you than foolishness. And mind you they will not think twice before exterminating you because to them you're from the ape family!

It doesn’t mean snakes can talk

MaxInDHouse:
Before scientists began updating their knowledge the book (Bible) said the earth is round (spherical) and all creatures on it are like ants glued to the surface of the earth {Isaiah 40:22} back then this people that now became your mentor argued that it's not possible since they can't decipher how people and gigantic can live on a spherical shaped object without falling off.

The book also said that God hanged the earth upon nothing as in empty space {Job 26:7} your mentors argued back then that it's not possible because they can't figure out how any object can be sustained in the air without support.

If you're now counting on what they're just discovering to condemn the book that saw so many things before them after thousands of years that the book have kept all these information then it means you have been scammed the second time, the first was the Yahoo big boys you called pastors, and now arrogant whitemen who feels like seeing God before obeying Him!

I have seen worst things in my life but I have never seen a grown man trying to prove that a snake can talk

MaxInDHouse:
When arguing with misinformed Churchgoers you may thrive because those people are as dumb as you!

The highlighted shows you're a complete failure because parrots do talk and they are part of the animal family, so go and call your professors teaching you in atheism because this is too much for you to handle!

No one is more misinformed that a guy who thinks animals can talk

Basic biology knowledge would have saved the embarrassment

TenQ:
What kind of evidence will suffice for you?

Anyone, anyone I can test 20 times and it will give me same result 19times at least.

That’s a statistically significant result

budaatum:
I wonder which you are atheistically agnostic towards, the Bible or the God?

I think its the beliefs that you are (rightly) atheistic towards, and you are agnostic in your own understanding. It's like you'd be atheistic if one told you the characters in Aesop's Fables were real, but you are agnostic in regard to what those fables teach, likely because you are yet to understand what they teach.

Workch, I put it to you, I accuse you in fact, that you look through a religious lens instead of reading the book as a child, and you therefore throw the beliefs out with the water.

Try reading the book without the junk you are told to believe. I warn you however that that is as difficult as threading a needle through the eye of a camel, though not impossible.

Your opinion is well noted

MaxInDHouse:
But the same book talked about wireless communication when God spoke with Moses through a burning bush, plasma TV when a prophet saw something happening far away, aircraft when Elijah was carried away into the skies thousands of years before humans began discovering how possible all these things, shey?
Continue deceiving yourself!

All the animals I know don’t talk dude

Ok I refuse to reason like Bronze Age herders

MaxInDHouse:
In the same book (Bible) it is written that God made something like a window on the wall and a prophet saw what is happening in the temple while standing in his own house far away from the temple. Of course you will doubt it's possibility had it been we don't have televisions and video cameras today!

Book written by Bronze Age herders who believed animals could talk.
I won’t follow you back to Bronze Age reasoning

MaxInDHouse:
Atheism is making you go nuts!
I said animals speaks when they are possessed!
Even humans say things that doesn't come from their brains when possessed so stop deceiving yourselves!

Just because I don’t believe animals can talk according to you and our forefathers.

jcross19:
you are bitter, because you have not seen Him did not make Him nonexistence and your opinion don't change anything .. A fate has already befell on you.

It seems you like long stories

MaxInDHouse:
Our forefathers knows that animals can speak when they are possessed by supernatural beings, so it's not the animal that's speaking but the supernatural being using the animal as a puppet.
So it's you that's being tossed about like wind when the whiteman brought the Bible and told our forefathers that the supernaturals here are demons our forefathers agreed because there was no improvement in their lives like what they saw with the whiteman.
Though they were thoroughly deceived but the most stupid and hopeless beings today are you guys who are now saying there is no supernaturals at all when our forefathers actually had dealings with the supernaturals.
When Imar Musa Yar'adua was seriously ill and the rumour went round that the man has died, your professor in atheism in the person of Wole Soyinka said Traditionalists should go and confirm if Imar is still alive. WHY because Wole Soyinka doesn't have any trust in Pastors and Imams but he wants the Traditionalists to go then when they come back they should swear in the name of African gods that Imar is still alive!
Do you still think Wole Soyinka doesn't have faith in the supernaturals?
Guy, it's the whiteman that you're still following blindly, so don't think you have any sense by saying there are no supernaturals!

Maybe I should go talk to animals in zoos.
I’m going to take the the word of our forefathers for it. I won’t follow you back to Stone Age reasoning

MaxInDHouse:
After you've been running around chasing shadows expecting miracles from deceivers and later got the disappointment of your life you came here saying there is no God or Bible makes no sense. Do you think everyone is as stupid and naive as you guys?
Bible is not to be read alone but with another person and both of you mustn't have the intention of making any material gain from it rather the right motive is to gain the knowledge of God. That's when God's Holy Spirit will come and start teaching both of you as you keep rubbing minds over what God requires. But expecting miracles for personal gain just because you are reading the Bible makes you sound stupid and naive!

Its ironic seeing someone that believe in talking snake calling someone else naive.

Wonders

jcross19:
you mean it? Like I have said , I was once a free thinker, until His mercy found me. I pray His mercy finds you...

Can you just join the conversation or take your stories elsewhere?

hupernikao:
I TRULY HOPE YOU WILL READ THIS WELL BEFORE RESPONDING.


Firstly it depends on what you referred to as sacrifice. But I will leave that terminology for now.

But observe this very well. That there is no single text of the NT that was not built upon the law and the prophets. No single text of it stands on its own. The writers and speakers were students of the law and the prophets. All they wrote were read from the scriptures of their days (Genesis to Malachi).

Hence any concept you see in the NT can naturally be explained from the OT. It simply means that the NT writers were only explaining what Moses and the prophets said all through their times.

Have this at the back of your mind. Because it's central to how you will study even the OT.

---

Now to your question.

The doctrine of the firstborn or son or firstling isn't strange to OT, as I have pointed out to you, that the events of the NT are mostly fulfillment or explanation of the voices and practices of the prophets.

That word, firstborn, was taken from the Hebrew word bekora. It's referred to as firstling, birthright etc. It's a word that is more of purpose than position.

1. Abel offered bekora
2. Abraham was to offer his bekora, his son. Isaac was called his first and only son even though he had Ishmael.
3. In Esau and Jacob we saw the importance of the firstborn position as Esau sacrificed his for food.
4. Moses instructions on offerings, spoke of what must be offered. He instructed it to be the firstborn, firstling.

I can go on and on.
Those instances I pointed you to speaks about things. Moses was a prophets, hence, his words are symbolic.

Abel was called a prophet, his actions are symbolic of the future.

Same as Abraham's offering.

---

I saw your presentation and argument on Isa 53. And you argued that the prophet was referring to Israel. I will leave that argument for another day. But the point here is, if I follow your explanation. That means God did actually offered Israel as a nation to suffer for all. To die for all.

Isa 53
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.


So, if I am to go by your argument in Isa 53, then the offering for sin was a nation. That's even more than a single person. Bear in mind also, that Israel was referred to has "my son". The bekora of God. And offered for sin. All these pointed to something ahead.

---

Clearly, the doctrine of offering for sin via the firstborn was first seen Genesis, in the law, and in the prophets.

These formed the foundation of the NT writer and served as the prophecies fulfilled in the NT in christ Jesus.

As prophets of God in the OT, they only use events, words, teachings, laws and actions to show God's plan ahead of time. Hence, they are prophetic in nature. The reasons they are called the prophets.


We may not be able to exhaust this here but, I will conclude by saying that, a proper reading of the OT will definitely point you to only one thing: Christ the savior.


And I hope you truly read this for discussion and not turn to abusive strategy common here.

This is the type of nonsense back and forth argument you wanted me to have with you.

Argument with no direction, it will take all day without anything useful coming out of it.

Lol

peggywebbs:
Why are you obsessed with the Christian God. Why not talk about this your new found religion.

Anyway workch is a Christian in disguise. You're still in denial.

The Bible has to be exposed, the lies are too much

jcross19:
lol I was worst than you.... I pray you should meet Him soon , so that you can find that missing line in your life.. All I see in you is frustration!!.

Its a nice way of not answering the question because it doesn’t make sense but you don’t have the logical mind to question it

Kissmyassbiach:
The difference between you and actual men is that they’re self made, not looking for a woman to depend on because they have their own shit.

Your existence is already a liability, that’s why you need someone to depend on. You’re a disgrace to manhood.

Ps, “Olosho” is the worse thing broke and useless men say to women. Ask your ashawo mum how you were born. Have a wonderful night.

My mom kept a home and rose 4 boys.
She wasn’t a liability to her husband, obviously that’s what you will become.

A gold digger. Can you even pay for a wedding gown?

Look at your mouth like “broke man”. Someone that has not even washed pant clean is calling a man broke

Kissmyassbiach, e no go better for you for calling my mom in this conversation.

By the time I’m done with you, you go think say na trailer jam you. If you no respect your mama for house then no curse person mama outside.
If I were with you now, I would I given you the beating of your life for having to not insult me back but going straight to my mom.
Your moniker even shows that you are a runs girl. Mad woman

Kissmyassbiach:
You must think you’re living in a Nollywood movie. A foolish and untrained man who wants to abuse people online and get away with it. Keep exposing yourself for the abuser they raised you to be. You’ll meet your match and they’ll send your corpse to your fathers house.

Look at this Olosho.
If you didn’t receive the training at home, I’m here to make you get it the hard way.

Can you even stay in a husband house like this with your gold-dogging attributes of looking for a man to spend on you. Werey, omo ale, a potential liability to man. Ashawo with sharp mouth

Next time think twice before using that your rotten fingers to type rubbish online.

JANK23H:
Oga ask Google.

Paul and other apostles of Christ weren't white.They took Christianity to the far corners of the world (As far as India,China and Ethiopia/Sudan).The Romans lead by Constantine adopted and institutionalized it,infused some Roman and Greek pagan beliefs than spread it farther.

You must understand that medieval Europe was deeply into paganism as our ancestors were,while Christianity was being spread in the Middle East.

Use Google complete the little I don give you so.

What does JESUS mean in Hebrew literally, like a direct translation?

Kissmyassbiach:
The same way you coped with the ogbanje you came out from who taught you to cuss people online

She doesn’t talk mannerlesy like you, the husband that will marry you will beat you to pop one day and take you back to your parents for being a mannerless lady.

A lady that was trained but refused to the trained. What a menace your likes are to the society.

Kissmyassbiach:
Your mother is a useless woman who gives birth to dogs.

Thats how you will talk to your husband.

Omo ale. I pity the person that will marry this ogbanje

JANK23H:
Aunty,take the advice dished out here and shut up.

Christianity is not the white man's religion,it never was.With every comment you make yourself look silly.The fact that the used it as a vehicle for colonisation didn't make it theirs.

Whose religion is Christianity?