₦airaland Forum

SMUAG:
This is actually what Gunn is partially known for. He's good at making controversial statements and that's my point of him to keep quiet, not necessarily he shouldn't go on promoting the new DCU movies..

Bro, pegging $400m as BEP as a results of production and marketing cost is not for movie that want to minimise cost o... That budget is for blockbuster movies..

SMUAG:
My question is; can they do Superman movie plus marketing with just $200m? I don't think it will ever be possible except they want to do exactly what CW Superman and Lois is doing - just pad the whole thing with family dramas and keep padding it with more dramas. Superman movies are practical and vfx heavy. So I don't think it's possible to use $200m for both production and marketing/promotion of Superman or similar Superheroes movies. Even Superman: The Movie that was released more than 40yrs back carried a production budget of $55m.

As a matter of fact, the production and marketing budget, giving the kind of film it is, should be a maximum of $200M each

Just like what Minemrys said James Gunn should at least keep quiet and not trying to divide the already divided fan base by always wanting to make statement likes he understands this character better and often thinks some other versions are not true to their characters. Just like when the Smallville Lex guy (in his podcast) made a jab at BvS Lex and immediately tried to play smart of not knowing if any of such version existed but James Gunn himself quickly affirmed to his point that there is/was.
A centre figure should know when not to say anything, because you're definitely on that same seat now.

Minemrys:
My advice to WB, and James Gunn. They should let Legacy sell itself. No too much marketing like they have been fond of. Gunn should shut up and stay off the media. Release the first trailer 6 months to release. The second one 3 months to and the 3rd,three weeks to release. Release just 3 TV spots.
They don't have to make all the money in the first week or opening day. If a movie is good, people will go to cinemas to see it again and again.
Besides they should have lower expectations and make a forecast of 450 million dollars gross.
Let the film be itself and breathe. Let it defend itself. Enough with the multiple test screenings. Sign everyone involved to secrecy, stay off media and reduce presence. This is reverse marketing. Let the media do the marketing and publicity for them without wasting money on hype and stuff.
In fact the first DCU films should follow this pattern. Building too much hype ends up ruining the experience. And people will be less forgiving of flaws in such films considering the over marketing before hand.

abduleez1:
We didn't have one last year and don't seem we'd get any. So nobody's hardly hoping about it coming back.

It was a great initiative though as DC fandom 2.0 was wildly successful and anticipated as well as well planned.
Since it was most likely a Jason Kilar initiative, I doubt Zaslav buys the idea. Unless Gunn pushes for its revival.

BankyGee:
Happy birthday 🎂 to me guys ❤️! And Happy birthday 🎂 in advance to my bro, abduleez1! 💪🏾

abduleez1:
This is where I believe the DC rebranding campaign should begin. We need to start taking comic con pretty seriously and excite the fans... hopefully spreading to the general audience.

SMUAG:
Bro, we should face the reality the competition is very tough and blockbuster movies are still lining up to be released, no room for The Flash to have a long leg when the words of mouth are not great. Not just even The Flash alone, check out most of the movies released (for the past a month and half) they are finding it extremely difficult to perform well, e.g The Little Mermaid (of all movie) is heavily struggling to do well.
My concern is with the execs and not even with the director. They must have seen the movie before anyone and knows a cgi of that standard For me is not acceptable in this modern days to give us such poor cgi, yet they gave the go ahead to release it, even with the heavy competition this period.
We can try to play the "my own na my own" game, but the cgi I saw is beyond defendable... Even one of the Superman cameo that they could've used the original actor in the scene and probably used a de-age technology to work the remaining out, but no they rather went all out to give use a ps4 (not even ps5) graphics.

Even if I'm never a fan of James Gunn, I think his reboot (for now) serves as the best option since the DCEU I came to know and loved have been bastardised by mostly the fanbase that feels all cbm need to be lighthearted and fun..

abduleez1:
Anyways, I believe the best way is to rapidly continue development on DC TV shows on Max with great production value as well as quality.
Something that put some admiration for DC like Peacemaker and Watchmen.

If we have 3-5 back to back shows like that on Max before all the first 3 DCU movies releases, we might actually build hype and goodwill in record time.
And this is where I'm slightly angry with HBO's pace in adapting DC stories. That JJ Abrams no go die well sha.

abduleez1:
There's many things going against the movie but I'm still in doubt the significance of Ezra Miller on the film underperforming.

Here's my stand on it. 👇👇But in coming weeks I'd properly gauge the impact of it all and Ezra issues.

Minemrys:
And you saw this where? In the future?

abduleez1:
You're still not getting it and stubbornly sticking with your opinion despite facts given to you.

The talk of Disney not minimising cost holds no water. Is it only Disney that was losing money in the financial report I posted to you?? There were literally 5 streamers listed with ONLY Netflix making profit.

Streaming is an expensive business and swallows funds to maintain it. This is standard industry belief not what you are assuming here as fact.

Most blockbuster movies has equal or almost equal production budget as well as marketing. So $200mn production cost for the Flash means about $150- $200mn for marketing. It's standard industry practice.
That's the reason why Hollywood experts tell you to multiply a movie's cost by 2.5x to calculate it's break even point. Anything above that is in profit territory.
Rarely anyone makes $200mn movies and use $300mn to market it.

Streaming movies are never going to be more profitable than theatrical movies in the years to come. So all this one you're saying is just refusing to acknowledge the truth. Even a flop like Black Adam and Shazam 2 makes more money than a streaming exclusive.

The Batman would have made more money at the BO and gotten to $900mn (if not $1bn) if not for Kilar announcing it'd be available in 45days. Still, that movie went to HBOMax and dominated all films that had same day release.
What does that tell you??

You're living in an alternate universe if you think dropping hundreds millions of dollars movies on streaming will be profitable and bring money to WB than theatrical release.

TSS was released same day with theatres same as WW84. GvK, Mortal Kombat and ALL the movies that was released on HBOMax in 2021, how many subscribers they brought in total and profits as against what they would have made in theatre exclusive?? With all the sacrifices that Kilar made to 2021 movies to promote HBOMax, the growth no pass 12mn subscribers. HBOMax had 61mn subs in 2020 and made 73mn subs in 2021 with ALL WB movies streamed the same day as cinema.
That's hardly a significant growth to me especially when considering the money that would have been made in theatres.



The way you talk sef it's kinda funny, it's as if the theatrical released movies won't eventually go to HBOMax to boost its numbers. Why focus on streaming only when you can make money both ways.

abduleez1:
All these you're saying is just reductive.

$139mm opening weekend is for worldwide and not domestic box office. The US and Canada cumes is around $55mn opening weekend.

That cume for the flash is disastrous and is even lower than Black Adam.
It's either you're ignorant or don't know how box office works.

Black Adam's opened to $140mn WORLDWIDE and ended up earning $393mn in final BO gross.
For the Flash that was made for a reported $190-220mn that's a massive flop.

I no know where you dey get your info from. 😟
For the scale of that movie it should be doing at least $300mn opening weekend worldwide.

And no Elemental was NEVER considered a Flash competition. It's with SpiderVerse, The Little Mermaid, Transformers and upcoming Indiana Jones.

Minemrys:
When the test screenings are bad, there usually is a problem with the film, which will call for rewrites and multiple reshoots. Even then, things might still be problematic. I have never heard of films that tested bad in screenings but ended up loved. Test screenings are for public viewers not critics by the way.

abduleez1:
You're not understanding my point or choose to ignore it.

Your claim of a streaming service having high subs means it will be profitable is warped.
Disney+ has a very high subscriber count but is making huge losses because of money spent on content that haven't been recovered.

I don't think you're more versed in streaming financials than an Hollywood executive. David Zaslav said movies that premiered in theatres performed better than films that are streaming exclusive. No film has screened in theatres and went on to underperform in streaming. Theatrical releases has more exposure than streaming exclusives. All the more reason he's shifting his focus on theatrical movies and has committed to dropping 15-20 films per year from 2024.

ALL the best performing movies on HBOMax are ALL films that appeared in theatres.
The evidence is there to see.
Is it WW84, GvK, Mortal Kombat, TSS etc.
Even The Batman that stayed exclusively in theatres for 45 days smashed records of same day releases like the 2021 films and even ZSJL.
Make of that what you will.

Also if you're arguing it makes money collectively just like I said (aggregate), how do you specifically tell if a particular film was the ONE that brought the subscribers and not another movie or TV show??

Again, you're forgetting the fact that theatrical movies still have life outside the box office. Even flops in theatrical box office can still go on to make profits with DVD sales. And there's still movies that are sold to cable TV networks and airlines that makes money.
I'm not even talking about merchandise yet. All these streaming exclusive lacks.

The profitability of $50mn is different from a film you produced for $200mn. This ain't feasible when you're not Netflix or Amazon with $1tn backing.
You're also ignoring the fact I showed you with traditional streamers like Amazon Video and Apple TV plus releasing movies in theatres. Even the Netflix you're basing your analogy on released films last year in theatres before hitting the streamer.

I don't just conjure numbers or financial opinions, I drop facts and figures.

BlackManta:
You need to see the damage streaming did to Pixar. A brand that used to be a giant in the animation industry but nowadays they have been a shadow of their former self just like DC.

They started by dropping Soul on Disney+, then Raya and the Last Dragon, Encanto, Turning Red... until it started diminishing the value of those films and the need to see them in a Cinema.

It's not like Pixar films are bad. Only Lightyear can be held as a bad film among all the films they released since 2020.

Streaming is not good for a franchise unless you have huge amount of subscribers and plenty money like Netflix.

HBO Max doesn't have the subscriber number of Netflix. Dumping DC films on Max means reducing the number of audiences they can get.

There's also the issue of piracy.
Imagine watching a DC film in clear ultra HD on the day it drops.

That is really bad.

SONY that is trying to expand a franchise off the back of their Spiderman would never consider this streaming of a thing.

DC movies must remain theatrical.
But with budget control ($150m max) and quality control.

If James Gunn can kick off the DCU with 5 great movies back to back, the fanbase will start getting steady growth and trust in the DC brand will be restored.

BlackManta:
You need to see the damage streaming did to Pixar. A brand that used to be a giant in the animation industry but nowadays they have been a shadow of their former self just like DC.

They started by dropping Soul on Disney+, then Raya and the Last Dragon, Encanto, Turning Red... until it started diminishing the value of those films and the need to see them in a Cinema.

It's not like Pixar films are bad. Only Lightyear can be held as a bad film among all the films they released since 2020.

Streaming is not good for a franchise unless you have huge amount of subscribers and plenty money like Netflix.

HBO Max doesn't have the subscriber number of Netflix. Dumping DC films on Max means reducing the number of audiences they can get.

There's also the issue of piracy.
Imagine watching a DC film in clear ultra HD on the day it drops.

That is really bad.

SONY that is trying to expand a franchise off the back of their Spiderman would never consider this streaming of a thing.

DC movies must remain theatrical.
But with budget control ($150m max) and quality control.

If James Gunn can kick off the DCU with 5 great movies back to back, the fanbase will start getting steady growth and trust in the DC brand will be restored.

abduleez1:
Lol, I always tell you this talk of buying off DC from WB ain't gonna work. WB the way I see it are going to give you their balls for castration first before even thinking of selling off DC to anyone.
You want DC, you buy the total package.

I'm optimistic this time there might be some stability in DC after this phase. WBD sell off is mostly speculation. Even if there's a selloff at play, there's hardly a credible media conglomerate with the money and wherewithal to buy WB presently.
The usual suspects in Paramount (Viacom) and even Universal's parent company Comcast are deep in debt and hardly have that liquidity for a major buyout in the next two years that analysts predicted the WBD sale to happen.

Zaslav seems primed for the long term business. The only other top companies with deep pockets to easily fund a WB buyout are basically Apple and Amazon since both companies stocks are worth over $1.5 trillion individually. Amazon already bought MGM in 2021 and Apple rarely spend big money for acquisitions. Apple biggest acquisition is $3bn for beats electronics.
Anyone looking to buy WB presently would be ready to shell out around $70bn or more.

Even if WB gets sold again by Discovery, the way Zaslav has restructured the company and DC, it's hard for anybody to come and make a U-turn. Cos DC's independence is the way to go. Besides if another company buys off DC, how sure are you that same shit that happened over at WB won't persist.
At least this time it's pretty clear DC has its independence with James and Safran making the overall decisions. DC Studios presently isn't under WB executive authority no more and that's good for the brand. This way the personality of the brand shines through instead of the tussle between creatives at DC and the business minded executives who see DC as a subsidiary of them.

Zaslav's number one priority for theatrical movies under WB is DC. And he has said it many times, he's banking on DC to drive WB's future growth. Of course there's a slight pressure for DC to perform but at least there's optimum care for the franchise as other franchises that could have fetch money are hibernating like Wizarding World, LOTR.

DC is being unbundled, from gaming, comics to movies and TV show. Zaslav almost sold WB Games earlier last year but you can see he's happy he luckily didn't sell it after the massive profits Hogwarts Legacy has brought with its record sales.
That total franchise universe is what the man hopes to achieve with DC.

Minemrys:
Aquaman hasn't done well in test screenings. Don't expect that movie to be retained.

BlackManta:
I disagree

DC movies belong to the big screens only, none of that streaming bullshit.

Imagine watching iconic characters like Superman and Batman on a streaming platform.

It's gonna set a very bad precedent. Like why anticipate these characters and their stories if you can watch them at home?

One of the reasons The Batman didn't make more money as it should is because the previous WB regime only let it play 45 days in theaters before dumping it on HBO Max.

That's how they wanted to dump Blue Beetle on streaming until Zaslav intervened.

Anybody that wants to see Superman and Batman, Wonder Woman should go to the cinema.
Unless you want to tell a longer story with a TV series like James Gunn wants to do with Lanterns and Paradise Lost.

Apart from that, anything movie, theatre straight on the IMAX and premium screens.

One thing WB must do is stop making $200m DC films.

The first 5 DCU films should get not more than $150m budgets. And these movies have to be GREAT. Not average, not good, GREAT.

That way you can restore the audience faith in DC films in shortest possible time.

abduleez1:
I strongly disagree. On this streaming take you're saying, you're deeply wrong or misguided. No offense.

Streaming business makes no money except you're Netflix. ONLY Netflix makes profit in streaming and HBOMax just joined the last quarter with Zaslav's axe to cut it down to size to allow profit making.

Based on research, ALL FILMS that debuted in theatres first performed better than films just dumped in streaming without any theatrical release.
Whether you make loss in theatres or not, the ticket fees still covers some part of costs that streaming doesn't give you.

In fact it's very difficult to calculate the financials streaming only gives you as compared to a theatrical release that you have it's financials at your fingertips.

Streaming works well for aggregate of total content as a whole. Not individual movie or content selling itself to profitability. The backbone of streaming has been TV shows and not really movies. Films are the added bonuses, the sweetener or the flexibility of VOD.

HBOMax and other streaming platforms (asides Netflix) makes losses running in hundreds of millions of dollars annually. You're clearly oblivious of how streaming financials works. It's very different from theatrical and way more complex.

A failed blockbuster movie at the box office will most likely make more money than a streaming exclusive film.

If streaming was printing money like you said David Zaslav won't transfer Blue Beetle from HBOMax exclusive to theatres. Apple won't be signing deals with traditional studios to distribute and première their movies in theatres first. Films wey Apple use over $100mn produce. One of the upcoming films is even $200mn.
Even Amazon that has deep pockets and recently spends money carelessly and have shown the ability to even make money spent by Netflix look like cakewalk are doing theatrical debuts for its films. ie AIR debuted on cinemas.

Streaming barely works for $40mn or less films not proper $80mn to hundreds of millions of dollars tentpole films.

Na only Netflix get that amount of money to dey waste on top one time films.

abduleez1:
While I believe this is the way to go for the new Swamp Thing movie and I'm not bothered how they go about it so far as they deliver great quality storywise and as well as practical effects which the show excelled in.

Minemrys has a point and I understand him. The storytelling in that show was top notch as well as acting & CGI and actually nailing the eerie feeling of Swamp Thing universe. It's one of the GOATED shows DC has ever produced and I rate it after Watchmen series in terms of premium quality. The price of the show was it's downfall.

Anyways, early news I got from the upcoming movie is that cast members for the movie are returning. So far no drastic changes are made at least we can expect the Allec Holland and Abby Arcane actors as well as the villain. It was great storytelling and world building they were telling then with the possible link ups with Madame Xanadu and Blue Devil.

The interconnectedness of the Swamp Thing Universe is why I love the upcoming projects and praise James Gunn for his vision (even tho it may seem I d|¢krid€ his plans at times). 😅😅

Minemrys:
You get. The series sef wasn't aligned with any universe when it aired sef. They had already built up the characters that it will be easier to just get on with moving forward the narrative than reintroducing the characters in a new telling.

Minemrys:
Am not criticizing, just stating my opinion. The series was onto something, which I feel instead of going back to reintroduce the character again, they can just move on with a sequel to the series.

BankyGee:
Lol 😆 You know say me no dey respect elders sometimes sha 😁