₦airaland Forum

Ifeann:
Loool. Did u say low intelligence.
Am I surprised at this derogatory remark. NOPE.
You see, when a muslim is cornered in a discussion about the Vices in the quran and hadiths , that terrible spirit of Islam pushes him to throw insults and red herrings so he can make an escape. BUT I won't let u go off that easy.

You said,"I have asked you ones why bible would support slavery but your answer can only be "Christian has nothing to do with Old testament" as if God of Old testament is different from God of New testament."
No true christain would say this, when I get asked these questions about the Old testament I look at the context and explain it. A fact you Muslims forget often is that Christians don't live under the old testament, that Law was given to the ancient Jews but Christians are very associated with the old testament because of this important reason- the coming of Christ was foretold therein.

You mentioned something about slavery in the bible,

Let's analyze some verses and compare it with the quran and Mohammed who came 3000years after some of theses commands were given in the torah.

Exodus 21: 7-11,
...And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to MARRY HIS SON, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as HIS DAUGHTER. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a FREE WOMAN without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Remember, like I told you before, this is ancient law, thousands of years before Jesus and your prophet. However see the effort at fairness.

The "worse" treatment of slaves in the old testament is far better than your best verse on slavery in the quran.

Now let's analyze the verse
Jews were ALLOWED TO MARRY SLAVES AND THEY ARE FREE TO LEAVE HENCE NOT AGAISNT THEiR WILL as the ending of that passage shows.

in your haste to embarrass the old testament you once again condemn the Islam as evil . Let's see how slaves are treated in Islam even if they are married.

Qur'an (4:24)-"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
Even sex with married slaves is permissible. Hence the crime of sex slavery and adultery was approved by your prophet.

Qur'an (8:69)-"But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good"
A reference to war booty, of which slaves were a part, ISIS are very much inlove with this verse.

Qur'an (33:50)-"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an (23:5-6)-"..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..."
This verse permits the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves. More vices.

See also Qur'an (70:29-30). The Quran is a small book, so if Allah used valuable space to repeat the same point four times, then sex slavery must be very important to him and Mohammed.

Qur'an (24:32)-"And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." Breeding slaves based on fitness. This is sickening.

Qur'an (2:178)-"O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female."
The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans arenotcreated equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman's worth is also distinguished from that of a man's).


Your heart is darken and it is difficult to understand the message of God, the bible does not support slavery but gave commands for their fair treatment. Now let's look at what happened to Jews who kidnapped people with an attempt to sell them.

"He who kidnaps a man, whether he
sells him or he is found in his
possession, shall surely be put to
death." ( Exodus 21:16)

Another example,
"If a man strikes his male or female
slave with a rod and he dies at his
hand, he shall be
punished." ( Exodus 21:20)

Now let's take a look at the new testament

Galatians 3:28p
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond(slave) nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:13:"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond(slave) or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Colossians 3:11:"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond(slave) nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


if you want to understand any other Old testament passage, get a Holy Bible, read the it and ask me for information regarding the larger context if you are too lazy to read the entire chapter. Then compare it with your quran and you will see its falsehood for what it is.

Ifeann:
[s]Yazach we have met on several threads, I have addressed accusations like this over and over. But u Muslims remain blind and deaf to the truth. Besides that someone here has already addressed the OP. I am here to challenge the op to BRING more and in turn we shall address issues and vices people have with the quran and hadiths. I don't dodge I engage.

Can we talk about verses about slavery in the Bible and Qu'ran. If u are ready bring up passages. I will show u how ur quran encourages supports and promotes sex slavery(Mohammed loved this one ), trading of slaves, sleeping with married slaves, capturing slaves etc.

If you don't want this topic we can address the sleeping with children/paedophilia which you prophet loved; including the hadith that shows how his wives were commanded to always clean semens stains off his tunic. Why was he always having sex. Your prophet was a sex addict apparently. I can also show u this. You also can search the bible and show me a prophet who lived like this. [/s]

limamintruth:
You mean islam the religion of bloodshed & violence?

God forbid bad thing.

Ifeann:
Hi friend

It seems you want to debate, bring up any issue u have with Christianity and we share ponder on it in turn I shall ask you to address why Islam and your prophet endorses, supports and encourages slavery or child marriage or paedophilia or sex with captives (that your right hand possess) or beheadings or stonings or revenge missions or assassination of his critics or the abrogations of revelations or polygamy(legalised adultery) or temporary marriage (legalised prostitution still practised by the shi'a), domestic violence against women, or inferiority of women or Al Taqiyya (use of deceit) or Inc.est (he slept with his adopted son's ex wife after he divorced her since Mohammed lusted after her), or sex with sex slaves (which he did often), or No adpotion in Islam(there by leaving countless orphans destitute) or his irrational hate of wall garkos (little lizards) or dogs (mans best friend) or the 72 virgins which you will dis.virgin over and over again with your perpetual erections or Mohammed's sharing of war booty or any other vice of your choice in the Qu'ran ..

Ifeann:
I am tried of quoting ur sources, I am sure by now u know I know I state facts from your quran and hadiths.

but apparently u like using analogies so let me give u one.

If your city was just attacked by the Jews for whatever reason be it you attacked first even or they provoked. They kill a lot of people u know. Massive massacre and they win. And after the raid your sisters, mother, aunts and several other women who are married are rounded up and brought to the head commander.
The head commander then tells his soldiers that if their right hand possess any of the women they can have sex with them, "just fu.c k her if you captured her. ". This scenario is in ur quran and hadiths

Isn't that rape. Could any of the women just willingly allow the soldiers to have sex with them after killing their people, while their husbands are still alive and probably tied up.
Even if it was days after battle.

Sahih Muslim 8:29: “IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A CAPTIVE WOMAN AFTER SHE IS PURIFIED (OF MENSES OR DELIVERY) IN CASE SHE HAS A HUSBAND, HER MARRIAGE IS ABROGATED AFTER SHE BECOMES CAPTIVE.”

Qur'an (33:50)-"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an (23:5-6)-"..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse permits the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves.

See also Qur'an (70:29-30). The Quran is a small book, so if Allah used valuable space to repeat the same point four times, then sex slavery must be very important to him.

Qur'an (4:24)-"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess

Qur'an (8:69)-"But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good"


Have u seen it or u just won't accept it. I will give u time to see the full context from your Koran, this is evil and immoral.

MightySparrow:
. For what?

Ifeann:
If you noticed I haven't replied you for some days, I have been having some intelligent engagements with smart Muslims, who at least attempt to defend and not throw red herrings and who never bring up the old testament argument because the context explains itself and most smart Muslims know how ancient those verses are, they come to the Jews at a time in a world of anarchy, chaos and rebellion which was thousands of years before Jesus and Jesus came 600 years before Mohammed and because most qu'ran reading Muslims know that your quran affirms the torah and other chapters of the old testament and even the injeel, I can provide verses to prove this... as well as the fact that Christians don't live under the covenant of the old law (OT). If you knew anything about theology you won't be here exposing your ignorance.

limamintruth:
Dont worry cos i love you with the love of christ

limamintruth:
How old are you this boy why do you always type as if you are tipsy?
Or are you drunk?

modified:
With due respect, dont quote me again if you dont have any relevant thing to say.

malvisguy212:
The Qur’an says that Muhammad is the
“Seal of the Prophets” in the following
verse:
Surah 33:40: “Muhammad is not the
father of any man among you, but he
is the messenger of Allah and the
Seal of the Prophets.” (Pickthall)

Muslims use this verse to prove that
Muhammad was the last in a series of
prophets and that he was the
culmination of the prophethood.
However, the Hadith literature makes it
very clear that when the Qur’an refers to the “Seal of the Prophets” being upon
Muhammad, it refers to a LARGE MOLE on his back.

Sahih Muslim, Book 30, Number
5793:
Abdullah b. Sarjis reported: I saw
Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon
him) and ate with him bread and
meat, or he said Tharid (bread soaked
in soup). I said to him: Did Allah’s
Apostle (may peace be upon him)
seek forgiveness for you? He said:
Yes, and for you, and he then recited
this verse: “Ask forgiveness for thy sin
and for the believing men and
believing women” (xlvii. 19). I then
went after him and saw the Seal of
Prophethood between his shoulders
on the left side of his shoulder
having spots on it like MOLES.

The seal of the prophet turn out to be a physical deformity that needed medical attention,but muhammed take advantage of there ignorance, READ BELOW;

Ibn Sa’d (A.H. 168-230), Kitab al-Tabaqat
al-Kabir:
‘Abd Allah Ibn Ja’far al-Raqqi
informed us on the authority of
‘Ubayd Allah Ibn ‘Amr, he on the
authority of ‘Abd al-Malik Ibn ‘Umayr,
he on the authority of Iyad Ibn Laqit,
he on the authority of Abu Rimthah;
he said: I went to the Prophet, may
Allah bless him, and a son of mine
was with me. Then I said: O my son!
This is the Prophet of Allah. When he
(son) saw him, he began to tremble,
out of reverence. When I arrived, I
said, “O Apostle of Allah! I am a
physician and belong to the family
of physicians. My father was a
noted physician during the
Jahiliyyah (pre-Muhammad times)
days; we are famous as physicians.
So permit me (TO TREAT) WHAT IS
BETWEEB YOUR SHOULDER. If it is a
wound, I shall operate on it and
Allah will CURE His Prophet.”
Thereupon he said: THERE IS NO
PHYSICIAN FOR IT EXCEPT Allah. It was
like the egg of a dove. (Translated
by S.M. Haq & H.K. Ghazanfar, Kitab
Bhavan, New Delhi, India, 1972, Vol I
(part 2), p. 503-506.)

Clearly written here, it a physical deformity that needed medical attention,the famous physician wanted to treat the mole but he say Allah will cure it,meaning he agree it was just a mole on his back yet he take advantage of there ignorance.

The bible warn us not to look for omen in other people;

Deuteronomy 18:10: “There should
not be found in you…. anyone who
looks for omens.”

To look for omens means to look for signs such as a mole that portend good or evil.

Ifeann:
yazach I am still waiting for your reply as to how qu'ran 2:256 does Not contradict with all the other passages I presented.

You asked, "have you read a verse of the Qura'an where it is directly and categorically stated that their is no compulsion in Islam
If your answer is yes, give us the verse " and I gave it.

Apparently you thought I didn't know the verse because I didn't quote the passage.. Now I quote and you are shocked and you now claim that since the passage is there then your prophet did not compel people to his religion, the I quote some contradicting qu'ran passages and numerous authentic hadiths showing how your prophet disobeyed the command and presented more "revealed" commands asking him to contradict the earlier one and you run away.

You are wrong, I ask of that verse for the following reasons
1- For you to be able to prove your knowledge of the qura'an by comparing the verse with what you quoted
You quoted those verses to claim compulsion in Islam but the verse I ask prove you wrong and you think it is a contradiction This makes me laugh just because what you know about Islam is absolutely Zero

2- You only quote a verse and translate it to suit you personal purpose, so how did you think we will accept that?

My question still remain
Ifeann: Their is compulsion in Islam
Qura'an: Their is no compulsion in Islam

Yazach: Mr Ifeann can you please explain your self better

limamintruth:
Yes, it was an 'oversight' on my path.
This doesnt still change the fact that Abraham and other men of old RIGHTLY offered burnt offering to God in obediance to His instructions to that effect.
Your Quran 37 esp. verses 103 & 107 corroborates that.

limamintruth:
The OP asked a silly question that deserves zero answer.
Let no one infer anything other than what is stated in the Holy Bible. An explanation can only be given of the things stated in the Holy Bible & not of the things not stated therein.



lol. Is that the best explanation you can give?
You better stop quoting for me verses from your so-called hadith; unless you wanna tell me that the hadith is now 'islam's holy book'? Your quran has a record of Abraham's account i.e . Quran 37:102-107; so why not start from there Or is your holy book not 'complete' enough?

The sacrifices & offerings commanded by God Almighty to the Isrealites in the days of old were commandments meant to show their faith and submission to Him. The meat meant nothing to God; its the heart that makes the sacrifice thats important. A good example is the case of Cain & Abel in the Bible. Also, David & Samuel further explained this in the following verses thus;
Psalm 51:16
KJV
For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

King James Version of 1 Samuel 15:22.
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

So once again, your assumptions are not needed; the Holy Bible is complete and true; the Bible needs no support book like the quran.



The same way burnt offering was the necessary visible institution symbolising an offering of the heart by men of old to God Almighty then. Understand?

Ifeann:
You are actually trying to defend a sick thing such as slavery. Oh I see, u say they were prisoners of war what about the verse I quoted about breeding them and having sex with them if the owner chooses. This is sick.

Why would I chose a religion than endorses slavery over one that discourages it.

And your Qu'ran tells you, you are slaves of allah that's why the jihadists see themselves as slaves that need to blow themselves up, because they have a slave mentality.
Why would I chose a religion that their god calls his followers slaves over one that says we are the children of God, that he, God is an all loving father that will meet our needs if we call on him.

Ifeann:
Lol. Here is a moslem once again presenting a classic example of a red herring.
Why didn't you make issues with every other point I raised and this very important point and I quote, "Since it is the torah your prophet believed was rite and probably got his materials from."

Ifeann:
Most intelligent Muslims will instantly try to argue that point (and still fail miserably ) but since you lack the knowledge u chose to divert the conversation.

Ifeann:
Look my friend I have spent hundreds of hours studying these issues in Islam, I have listened to your brightest scholars, both alive and dead and I have seen several of them use Al Taqiyya especially ahmed deedat and shibry Ali, just as the Muslims in the religious section of nairala d.

limamintruth:
Long tym no see my good friend yazach

For your sake, i'l briefly answer you to cure your confusion if its still curable sha.

God directed that 32 virgins out of the lot should be chosen as tribute solely to serve in the temple of God. Virginity is considered as a symbol of purity in a lady, that was why only virgins were chosen for such holy service.

No where in the holy Bible was it expressly stated that these virgins were chosen to become wives or concubines to God Almighty; neither was it stated that they were to be teleported to heaven to be His wives. Thus,no need infering what doesnt exists my fellow islamits.

So Try harder next time @op, cos this your tactic to rubbish christians has woefully failed

Abuamam:
Oppressing your wife by divorcing her wrongfully constitutes disobedience to Allah. Allah does not like oppression. So if your parents do not have a valid reason, then there is no obligation to divorce her. You inform them, with much respect, that you do not wish to oppress an innocent muslimah. Allahu a'lam.

PS, just saw a better response by Yazach. Refer to that one pls.

Bro Yazach. Who authored the fatawa jami'a lil mar'ah almuslimah, pls?

Ifeann:
Once again a Muslim quotes a text out of context. I don't know if its ignorance, lack of intellect or Taqiyya.
You quote ancient passages that was recorded when God was setting up and giving Laws to his people the Jews over several thousands of years ago, before the coming of Christ who came and created our new and improved relationship with his father (600 years afterwhich Mohammed came to preach stonings, beheading, rape of married captives your right hand possessed, child marriage etc ), the same God you are told to believe handed the qu'ran to your prophet. The same prophet that affirms the massages in the torah and injeel as I will prove below with 2 verses;

1. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong) (Surah 3:3).
2. If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losers (Surah 10:94-95; 16:43)

Even if you don't agree with Christians you have no right to question the bible, especially the old testament. Since it is the torah your prophet believed was rite and probably got his materials from.

Rilwayne001:
Sir...these people don't read their bible before coming to act like an islamic scholar when a thread that has to do with Quran is opened…They need serious lecture on their bible..LMAO

Ifeann:
[s]Are you serious, are you even a Muslim ?? Have you read your qu'ran in 21st century English and not just reciting it in 14th century classical Arabic. [/s]
So what am I to do with these contradicting commands to Mohammed from his god.

Qur'an (9:5)"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." Prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, assalat and zakat

Quran 2:193. "And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."

Quran 8:39. "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do."

[s]Qur'an (9:29)-"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


Sura 9:5. "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."

Bukhari 2:24: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Sahih Muslim (1:33)The Messenger of Allah said:"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

Sahih Muslim (19:4294)-"When you meet your enemies who are polytheists(which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Bukhari (53:392)-"While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said,"Let us go to the Jews"We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them,"If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari (60:80)-"The Verse:--'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.'means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."

malvisguy212:
provide the verse that say God want 32 virgin as the op say.

Ifeann:
Hello,
Salam alaykum,

I respect all people, I don't lie, I don't practise Al Taqiyya. I am not asking these questions for argument sake. We learn everyday so if I misquote then point it out and I shall investigate its validity.
My only concern or exception is to rule 3. I often quote verses from the Qu'ran to make my point and are often long.

My only request/ rule is that you do not lie, deceive or use Al Taqiyya when you make your points.

In addition, I visit qu'ran.com for verses and try not to depend on "Islamophobia sites" as you put it .

Here is the verse.
2:256
Sahih International
"There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing."

Ifeann:
Can u please explain some things about Islam, I shall put my questions beneath each fact.
**You say without compulsion, your prophet will disagree with you. Why does the quran say ; ...then KILL the polytheists wherever you find them , and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush, but if they repent and perform the prayer and pay religious tax, then leave their way free..quran 9:5, sounds like complusion to me.
And quran 9:29 which says "FIGHT those who do not believe in Allah." more compulsion. Infact there are many more like this but I am sure if u are a Koran reading Muslim you will know. Pls explain
[color=#000099][/color]

limamintruth:

limamintruth:
Yea,
i'm saying something that is too much for your dumb brain to comprehend

asalimpo:
Bombed by d religious sect tht promises virgins to suicides.