In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence - Politics (4) - Nairaland
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| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by folem: 6:51pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
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| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by bibiking1(m): 10:36pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
Those articles are certainly the biased opinions of certain individuals and do not necessarily stand as "cogent and verifiable" facts |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Horus(m): 1:57am On Jan 20, 2008 |
Kenya needs to nurture culture of non-violent mass action A truism that is unacknowledged is that mass action or civil disobedience in Kenya is always peaceful when the State is not opposed to it. Consider the many incidents of mass action in Nairobi that make political statements and demands or disobey State orders deliberations of bunge la wananchi at the Jeevanjee Gardens, the political rallies during the recent campaigns, the workers’ strikes and marches by hawkers and street children as well as musicians in lorries and music concerts in open places calling for struggles for human rights and social justice.  The State has invariably opposed mass action or civil disobedience on security grounds. What is termed security becomes political and is a denial of fundamental human rights. Key among the denied rights are freedom of assembly, expression and information as well as the right to organise. The May 31, 1997, mass action was not non-violent because of State intervention and police brutality. Both Mr Mwai Kibaki and Mr Raila Odinga were part of the mass action organised by the National Convention Executive Council (NCEC). Both will vividly recall the teargas they both were bombarded with at Central Park. The mass action on Saba Saba Day (July 7) of the same year was extremely brutal; security forces killed 14 people. The underlying political reason in all this police violence against peaceful and non-violent mass action was that President Moi did not want to listen to calls for a new constitution.  ODM wants to galvanise the anger of its supporters who believe President Kibaki stole the election. It is also making the point that the President is illegally in office and that his rule has no legal or moral basis. Its call now seems to be the rerun of the presidential election. The party’s position seems to enjoy significant regional and international sympathy, albeit a lack of political support from either quarters. ODM believes that continued domestic agitation is necessary for what it wants to see, and given the chance, it can organise a march of a million Kenyans in the city to demand a new presidential poll. President Kibaki will not authorise any mass action by ODM because he relies on the law as interpreted by lawyers close to him. His claim is that he was constitutionally declared winner by a constitutional organisation, the Electoral Commission. He also claims to be the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces, having been sworn in by the Chief Justice.  Whether the Economist magazine calls his declaration as president a civilian coup or some other form of power grab, he is in power. He knows that mass action could also result in a civilian coup by ODM, and has mobilised his security systems adeptly to ensure no mass action takes place, peaceful or non-violent they may be. President Kibaki has given orders to the security agents to ensure any mass action is suppressed. His security systems have shown that they have enough teargas, water and live bullets to stop any such action. Informed by the NCEC mass action of 1997, he knows that he has to follow in the footsteps of the colonialists, Mzee Kenyatta and President Moi by using force to maintain peace, law and order to enable him to rule at all costs. And the position may have a following among some Kenyans, but definitely not ODM and its supporters. Mass action is a double-edged political sword. Invariably, the State is not blamed for the violence. Whoever organises it runs the risk of being blamed for State-sponsored violence. In 1997, it was alleged that the security systems hired criminals to break into shops to discredit the reform movement.  For example, Jeshi la Mzee was funded by politicians close to President Moi to terrorise the movement. Peaceful and non-violent mass action must grow to be part of the democratic culture in Kenya, and it is in the interest of the State to promote it. But it should send in security forces to guarantee the citizens security and safety and to ensure freedom of assembly, expression and information as well as the right to organise. Kenya’s history has it that whenever democratic dissent is brutalised, it goes underground. The December 12th Movement, Mwakenya and other social movements of the 1970s and 80s took root because of the authoritarian, undemocratic and dictatorial rule of the Kenyatta and Moi Kanu regimes. These underground movements used leaflets to agitate for change. So-called seditious publications such as Pambana and Mpatanishi called for democratic reforms. But the social movements were not armed. Kenya has since seen the emergence of criminal armed militias. Nobody has carried out research on the politics of the illegal militias. The State needs to be very careful how it handles dissent, for if it goes underground and is armed, it can have disastrous consequences. Kenya can stop such an eventuality right now by nurturing a positive culture of peaceful and non-violent mass action. Source: http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=25&newsid=114879 |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by bibiking1(m): 2:29pm On Jan 21, 2008 |
Well the truth is beginning to show now, with Kibaki ordering the slaughter of protesting Kenyans! Who should be stopping the violance now? Kibaki or Odinga? I think because of the little pressure that has been put on Kibaki's illegitimate govt by African leaders he is beginning to believe that he can take the opposition out forcefully. And that is exactly what he is doing. He has desisted from embracing dialogue. Shame on Kenya, shame on Africa! |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Mutegi: 8:03am On Jan 22, 2008 |
Well the truth is beginning to show now, with Kibaki ordering the slaughter of protesting Kenyans!What truth, it looks like you are in your small little cocoon. What you dont realize is Raila supporters dont know how to protest. To them democracy is burning, maiming,looting, raping, killing and destroying. YOu forget 57% of the people who voted are happy with the elections. Should they be held hostage because Raila is grieved. He called 3 days of violence and there were more reporters than the people. People are already tired with the orgy of violence. What is the government supposed to do with people infringing on other people rights. Is the death of one violent protestor any more significant than the deaths of 400 Kenyans "cleansed" in the Rift Valley? Are we not to draw any inspiration from the deaths of these hundreds of innocents? On the contrary, the ODM, with their mastery of propaganda, appear to have succeeded in turning the media cameras, local and international attention away from the plight of the many faceless and nameless victims in the Rift Valley (mostly Kikuyu and Kisii) that went through the most horrifying deaths at the hands of ODM supporters. They would want the world to believe that the killings and evictions in the Rift Valley were a spontaneous reaction to the announcement of Kibaki's re-election. All evidence, however, urges us to a conclusion that the murderous mobs acted on the instruction (or incitement) of their leaders in a well-choreographed campaign that bears all the evidence of discipline and organisation. Stop it men stop; As much as you want to vilify Kibaki don't make a mockery of the deaths that happened in the hands of Raila supporters.You ignore all the facts but believe anything else. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by naijaking1: 9:10am On Jan 22, 2008 |
Cry, our beloved continent! |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Horus(m): 12:38pm On Jan 22, 2008 |
[size=14pt]Kenya: Amnesty International Condemns Excessive Use of Force by Police [/size] Amnesty International today condemned the reckless and excessive use of lethal force by the Kenyan police, as reports emerged of the killings of at least twelve people including a 13 year old boy by police during protests called by the opposition Orange Democratic Movement (ODM). “We recognise that the Kenyan police are trying to contain what in some cases have been violent protests in Kenya. However, by firing live ammunition into crowds the police have far exceeded what is acceptable use of force. The firing of live ammunition into crowds can not be justified,” said Erwin van der Borght, Director of Amnesty International’s Africa Programme. [img]http://images.google.com/url?q=http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/035516c9-6239-4eb4-9f06-0763914ee439_ms.jpeg&usg=AFQjCNFC1_nX_XIxQTzhiQQaaxMOGAs-EQ[/img] In one incident, captured on video by a local television station, an unarmed protestor in Kisumu was shot at close range by a Kenyan police officer who then kicked him while he lay wounded on the ground. The man reportedly died later from the bullet wound.In a number of other incidents, protestors and bystanders in Kibera, an informal settlement in Nairobi, were reported to have been shot by police who were preventing residents from travelling to the city centre for the mass protest rally called by the opposition. Kibera, inhabited by many of the opposition party’s supporters, has been the site of considerable post-election violence. “The government must immediately send clear instructions to the police to stop this excessive use of force, conduct an independent and impartial inquiry into the police killings, and prosecute any police officers who have used excessive force against protesters,” said van der Borght.  Amnesty International is also concerned at reports that journalists covering the protests and the police response have been harassed, and that human rights defenders protesting the use of excessive force by Kenyan security forces have been arrested. "The Kenyan government must respect the right to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly throughout Kenya,” said van der Borght. “It is only through the respect for human rights that the country will be able to resolve the political crisis it is now facing,”  Since 30 December 2007, over 600 people are reported to have been killed and thousands injured during violence that erupted following the announcement of the disputed election results. Over 250,000 have been internally displaced. Under the UN Code of Conduct for Law Enforcement Officials and the UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials,police may use force only when strictly necessary and only to the extent required for the performance of their duty. Firearms should not be used except to defend people against the imminent threat of death or serious injury or to prevent a grave threat to life, and only when less extreme means are insufficient. Intentional lethal force should not be used except when strictly unavoidable in order to protect life. For previous statements, please see Kenya: Amnesty International concerned at police killings in election protests issued on 31 December 2007 and Kenya: Amnesty International condemns killings in post-election violence, issued on 3 January 2008. Source: http://allafrica.com/stories/200801180852.html |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by bibiking1(m): 1:15pm On Jan 22, 2008 |
Mutegi: I think the point is being missed here, i am not in support of the Violence. I think both sides are employing really dirty tactics in handling the situation. But that is as surface as it cant get. The main point that should be drawn from this is the fact that a people have a limit to which they can accept cirvumvention. The Kenyans have been able to draw a line to which they can be manipulated politically, that line is not elastic and that has been pointed out clearly. Like i have said before, FREEDOM ALWAYS HAS A PRICE! |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by seguno2: 4:15pm On Jan 22, 2008 |
Webmaster/Seun, Might be a good idea to move this on the front page of Nairaland as your contribution to our continent's democratic development. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by seguno2: 9:13am On Jan 23, 2008 |
Worth a read Open Letter written to Mr. Kivuitu--INCHARGE OF ELECTION-- by Ms. Shailja Patel following the disaster in Kenya . Mr. Kivuitu, We've never met. It's unlikely we ever will. But, like every other Kenyan, I will remember you for the rest of my life. The nausea I feel at the mention of your name may recede. The bitterness and grief will not. You had a mandate, Mr. Kivuitu. To deliver a free, fair and transparent election to the people of Kenya . You and your commission had 5 years to prepare. You had a tremendous pool of resources, skills, technical support, to draw on, including the experience and advice of your peers in the field - leaders and experts in governance, human rights, electoral process and constitutional law. You had the trust of 37 million Kenyans. We believed it was going to happen. On December 27th, a record 65% of registered Kenyan voters rose as early as 4am to vote. Stood in lines for up to 10 hours, in the sun, without food, drink, toilet facilities. As the results came in, we cheered when minister after powerful minister lost their parliamentary seats. When the voters of Rift Valley categorically rejected the three sons of Daniel Arap Moi, the despot who looted Kenya for 24 years. The country spoke through the ballot, en masse, against the mindblowing greed, corruption, human rights abuses, callous dismissal of Kenya 's poor, that have characterised the Kibaki administration. But Kibaki wasn't going to go. When it became clear that you were announcing vote tallies that differed from those counted and confirmed in the constituencies, there was a sudden power blackout at the Kenyatta International Conference Centre, where the returns were being announced. Hundreds of GSU (General Service Unit) paramilitaries suddenly marched in. Ejected all media except the government mouthpiece Kenya Broadcasting Corporation. Fifteen minutes later, we watched, dumbfounded, as you declared Kibaki the winner. 30 minutes later, we watched in sickened disbelief and outrage, as you handed the announcement to Kibaki on the lawns of State House. Where the Chief Justice, strangely enough, had already arrived. Was waiting, fully robed, to hurriedly swear him in. You betrayed us. Perhaps we'll never know when, or why, you made that decision. One rumor claims you were threatened with the execution of your entire family if you did not name Kibaki as presidential victor. When I heard it, I hoped it was true. Because at least then I could understand why you chose instead to plunge our country into civil war. I don't believe that rumor any more. Not since you appeared on TV, looking tormented, sounding confused, contradicting yourself. Saying, among other things, that you did not resign because you "did not want the country to call me a coward", but you "cannot state with certainty that Kibaki won the election". Following that with the baffling statement "there are those around him [Kibaki] who should never have been born." The camera operator had a sense of irony - the camera shifted several times to the scroll on your wall that read: "Help Me, Jesus." As the Kenya Chapter of the International Commission of Jurists rescinds the Jurist of the Year award they bestowed on you, as the Law Society of Kenya strikes you from their Roll of Honour and disbars you, I wonder what goes through your mind these days. Do you think of the 300,000 Kenyans displaced from their homes, their lives? Of the thousands still trapped in police stations, churches, any refuge they can find, across the country? Without food, water, toilets, blankets? Of fields ready for harvest, razed to the ground? Of granaries filled with rotting grain, because no one can get to them? Of the Nairobi slum residents of Kibera, Mathare, Huruma, Dandora, ringed by GSU and police, denied exit, or access to medical treatment and emergency relief, for the crime of being poor in Kenya ? I bet you haven't made it to Jamhuri Park yet. But I'm sure you saw the news pictures of poor Americans, packed like battery chickens into their stadiums, when Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana . Imagine that here in Nairobi , Mr. Kivuitu. 75,000 Kenyans, crammed into a giant makeshift refugee camp. Our own Hurricane Kivuitu-Kibaki, driven by fire, rather than floods. By organized militia rather than crumbling levees. But the same root cause - the deep, colossal contempt of a tiny ruling class for the rest of humanity. Over 60% of our internal refugees are children. The human collateral damage of your decision. And now, imagine grief, Mr. Kivuitu. Grief so fierce, so deep, it shreds the muscle fibres of your heart. Violation so terrible, it grinds down the very organs of your body, forces the remnants through your kidneys, for you to piss out in red water. Multiply that feeling by every Kenyan who has watched a loved one slashed to death in the past week. Every parent whose child lies, killed by police bullets, in the mortuaries of Nairobi , Kisumu, Eldoret. Everyone who has run sobbing from a burning home or church, hearing the screams of those left behind. Every woman, girl, gang-raped. Do you sleep well these days, Mr. Kivuitu? I don't. I have nightmares. I wake with my heart pounding, slow tears trickling from the corners of my eyes, random phrases running through my head: Remember how we felt in 2002? It's all gone. (Muthoni Wanyeki, ED of Kenya Human Rights Commission, on the night of December 30th, 2007, after Kibaki was illegally sworn in as president). There is a crime here that goes beyond recrimination. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolise. (John Steinbeck, American writer, on the betrayal of internally displaced Americans, in The Grapes of Wrath) Haki iwe ngao na mlinzi, kila siku tuwe na shukrani ("Justice be our shield and defender, every day filled with thanksgiving" Lines from Kenya 's national anthem) I soothe myself back to patchy sleep with my mantra in these terrible days, as our country burns and disintegrates around us: Courage. Courage comes. Courage comes from cultivating. Courage comes from cultivating the habit. Courage comes from cultivating the habit of refusing. Courage comes from cultivating the habit of refusing to let fear dictate one's actions. (Aung San Suu Kyi, Burmese Nobel Peace Prize winner). I wake with a sense of unbearable sadness. Please let it not be true, Meanwhile, the man you named President cowers in the State House, surrounded by a cabal of hardline power brokers, and a bevy of sycophantic unseated Ministers and MPs, who jostle for position and succession. Who fuel the fires by any means they can, to keep themselves important, powerful, necessary. The smoke continues to rise from the torched swathes of Rift Valley, the gutted city of Kisumu , the slums of Nairobi and Mombasa . The Red Cross warns of an imminent cholera epidemic in Nyanza and Western Kenya , deprived for days now of electricity and water. Containers pile up at the Port of Mombasa , as ships, unable to unload cargo, leave still loaded. Uganda , Rwanda , Burundi , Southern Sudan , the DRC, all dependent on Kenyan transit for fuel and vital supplies, grind to a halt. A repressive regime rolls out its panoply of oppression against legitimate dissent. Who knew our police force had so many sleek, muscled, excellently-trained horses, to mow down protestors? Who guessed that in a city of perennial water shortages, we had high-powered water cannons to terrorize Kenyans off the streets? I am among the most fortunate of the fortunate. Not only am I still whole, alive, healthy, mobile; not only do I have food, shelter, transport, the safety of those I love; I have the gift of work. I have the privilege to be in the company of the most brilliant, principled, brave, resilient Kenyans of my generation. To contribute whatever I can as we organize, strategize, mobilize, draw on everything we know and can do, to save our country. I marvel at the sheer collective volume of trained intelligence, of skill, expertise, experience, in our meetings. At the ability to rise above personal tragedy - families still hostage in war zones, friends killed, homes overflowing with displaced relatives - to focus on the larger picture and envisage a solution. I listen to lawyers, economists, youth activists, humanitarians; experts on conflict, human rights, governance, disaster relief; to Kenyans across every sector and ethnicity, and I think: Is this what we have trained all our lives for? To confront this epic catastrophe, caused by a group of old men who have already sucked everything they possibly can out of Kenya , yet will cling until they die to their absolute power? You know these people too, Mr. Kivuitu. The principled, brave, resilient, brilliant Kenyans. The idealists who took seriously the words we sang as schoolchildren, about building the nation. Some of them worked closely with you, right through the election. Some called you friend. You don't even have the excuse that Kibaki, or his henchmen, might offer - that of inhabiting a world so removed from ours that they cannot fathom the reality of ordinary Kenyans. You know of the decades of struggle, bloodshed, faith and suffering that went into creating this fragile beautiful thing we called the "democratic space in Kenya ." So you can imagine the ways in which we engage with the unimaginable. We coin new similes: lie low like a 16A (the electoral tally form returned by each constituency, many of which were altered or missing in the final count) We joke about the Kivuitu effect - which turns internationalists, pan-Africanists, fervent advocates for the dissolution of borders, into nationalists who cry at the first verse of the national anthem . Ee Mungu nguvu yetu Ilete baraka kwetu Haki iwe ngao na mlinzi Natukae na undugu Amani na uhuru Raha tupate na ustawi. O God of all creation Bless this our land and nation Justice be our shield and defender May we dwell in unity Peace and liberty Plenty be found within our borders. Rarely do we allow ourselves pauses, to absorb the enormity of our country shattered, in 7 days. We cry, I think, in private. At least I do. In public, we mourn through irony, persistent humor, and action. Through the exercise of patience, stamina, fortitude, generosity, that humble me to witness. Through the fierce relentless focus of our best energies towards challenges of stomach-churning magnitude. We tell the stories that aren't making it into the press: the retired general in Rift Valley sheltering 200 displaced families on his farm, the Muslim Medical Professionals offering free treatment to anyone injured in political protest. We challenge, over and over again, with increasing weariness, the international media coverage that presents this as "tribal warfare", "ethnic conflict", for an audience that visualises Africa through Hollywood : Hotel Rwanda, The Last King of Scotland, Blood Diamond. I wish you'd thought of those people, when you made the choice to betray them. I wish you'd drawn on their courage, their integrity, their clarity, when your own failed you. I wish you'd had the imagination to enter into the lives, the dreams, of 37 million Kenyans. But, as you've probably guessed by now, Mr. Kivuitu, this isn't really a letter to you at all. This is an attempt to put words to what cannot be expressed in words. To mourn what is too immense to mourn. A clumsy groping for something beyond the word 'heartbreak'. A futile attempt to communicate what can only be lived, moment by moment. This is a howl of anguish and rage. This is a love letter to a nation. This is a long low keening for my country. Shailja Patel |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by bibiking1(m): 12:47pm On Jan 23, 2008 |
now that is what i call request for freedom!!! one good thing from all of this is that right from the mountains of Kabul to the valleys in Uganda, from the Wetlands of Yenagoa to the Deserts of Noakchatt, people are aware that the Kenyan elections were RIGGED, and KENYANS WANT FREEDOM! Unlike some green-white-green country i know, that has solved its problems of electoral malfunction inside a bowl of corruption, ,,,,,,,,,    |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by segunpc(m): 3:16pm On Jan 24, 2008 |
I ll just say kenya needs the interferance of the united nation to stop this mayhem! All agreed that odinga won but kibaki and his cronies criminally adjusted the outcome of the election. So for peace to reign kibaki needs to step(down) forward so that odinga can take his office. And u know africa guys they ll never leave a lucrative post. So finally, na only God fit intervene for their matter. shikena. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Mutegi: 4:57pm On Jan 24, 2008 |
I ll just say kenya needs the interferance of the united nation to stop this mayhem! I warned you about truth coming out. Now we know who orchestrated the ethnic cleansing.Are you sure guys like this who don't respect the law are right to run the country.Read this http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/01/23/kenya17859.htm |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by seguno2: 6:33pm On Jan 24, 2008 |
Thanks Mutegi for the link. I hope the ODM hierachy will get their aggrieved supporters to stop discrediting their cause with violence. That way all the parties involved can concentrate on correcting the issues that the fraudulent presidential elections has brought to the fore. What is sure is that the problem will not be resolved just by wishing it away or the passage of time. Nigeria went through this phase after the June 12, 1993 election annulment and it wasn't until OBJ's election in 1999 that the tension dissipated. I wish Kenya all the luck it needs to get through to fulfil this desire of its people for meaningful change expressed in their massive turnout during the truncated elections. Let us remember JF Kennedy's words: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by bibiking1(m): 6:30am On Jan 25, 2008 |
@Mutegi both parties have both engaged in senseless killings, not just Odinga |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Mutegi: 9:45am On Jan 25, 2008 |
@Mutegi Let me tell you the difference because it is clear you want to equate the two as same. ODM decided to kill innocent people just minding there business at home. Tell me what does young children got to do with politics? What animal would lock little defenseless kids and women in a church and burn them. Who gives someone the right to kill maim and brutalize innocent civilian because of who they voted. Does Idi Amin, Bokassa and Adolf hitler ring a bell. On the flip side ODM supporters went on an orgy burning and looting and killing people for 3 straight days. Rubber bullets did not stop the mayhem. The government banned the protest and still they was no stopping violence. Tell me what kind of peaceful protests did you expect with demonstrators carrying around machetes and torches. Those who died in the hail of bullets were breaking the law. It is sad but the two types of deaths can not be compared. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Horus(m): 10:44am On Jan 25, 2008 |
Amnesty International today condemned the reckless and excessive use of lethal force by the Kenyan police, as reports emerged of the killings of at least twelve people including[b] a 13 year old boy by police[/b] during protests called by the opposition Orange Democratic Movement (ODM).Why police kill a 13 year old boy? The police is suposed to represent the Justice,and a 13 year old boy is Not a treat to national security. Source: http://allafrica.com/stories/200801180852.html |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by bibiking1(m): 4:49pm On Jan 25, 2008 |
Horus: It wasnt Odinga that ordered the killing of that 13 year old boy, or Mutegi was he the one? |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Priscila(f): 7:29pm On Jan 25, 2008 |
One thing that beats my imagination is this! Why should Kibaki be the president of Kenya when It is Raila who won election? Do we embrace democracy or its just a joke?Cant we africans find other means instead of copying the west and ululating about democracywhich will never exist in our continent?Its a spell of doom if Kibaki insists on ruling for a whole term. Raila has no choice but people power and if he does not lead Kenyans to freedom he will be a failure as well. He is now Kenyas Messiah just like Moses led Israelites from brutal hands of the pharaoh.Kibaki is not better than Mugabe and can all dictators go to hell. UN and West countries should save kenya now if they really are up in arms for continent development. What a mess? |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by bibiking1(m): 7:40pm On Jan 25, 2008 |
Priscila: I am not sure about that priscilla |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Horus(m): 8:00pm On Jan 25, 2008 |
It wasnt Odinga that ordered the killing of that 13 year old boy, or Mutegi was he the one?He was killed by police. Source: http://allafrica.com/stories/200801180852.html |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Mutegi: 11:35pm On Jan 25, 2008 |
We know it would help if this was investigated. There are cases where police have used excessive force like one video on youtube where the police shoot unarmed man because he was taunting them. Question we should be asking is how the kid was shot. It is not clear, was it a stray bullet? Was it an execution? Was the kid participating in violence? Was the kid hacking somebody to death? Oh yeah a 13 yr old is capable. From that we can have bases for an argument. But I can promise or guarantee you one thing; the kids slaughtered by ODM were not participating in any form of violence. Do you know what’s sickening? While Raila has clearly won the war on media with all sorts of propaganda; the voices of those brutalized, killed and displaced in the hand of his supporters are not heard. The truth of the matter is that, with or without rigging the only outcome that would have saved Kenya from this violence was a victory for Raila Odinga. That is how much Raila Odinga likes violence, and his history stretching way back to the coup attempt he so glibly boasts about in his biography affirms just that. But I still doubt that; with Raila forming and supporting local ethnic based militia there was no saving Kenya. Even with mass protests called off, a steady continuous war is raging in the slums and houses are still being razed in Rift Valley. Meanwhile new theatres of violence are opening. Remember Rwanda Interhamwe and Impuzamugambi gangs were formed to Kill Tutsi and they spiraled out of controll killing even moderate Hutus.Ethnic gangs should not be encourage by any leader. One thing that beats my imagination is this! Why should Kibaki be the president of Kenya when It is Raila who won election? Do we embrace democracy or its just a joke?Cant we africans find other means instead of copying the west and ululating about democracywhich will never exist in our continent?Its a spell of doom if Kibaki insists on ruling for a whole term. No disrespect here but what evidence do you have to show Raila won. Chest thumping will not solve anything. Raila has totally refused to use any legal means to clarify if the votes were legitimate. A simple court order would have opened the door for a re-tallying .Raila knows he lost and a re-election under the current constitution would most likely result in the same thing. Unless Raila wins; the results is rigged. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by bibiking1(m): 11:40pm On Jan 26, 2008 |
No disrespect here but what evidence do you have to show Raila won. Chest thumping will not solve anything. Raila has totally refused to use any legal means to clarify if the votes were legitimate. A simple court order would have opened the door for a re-tallying .Raila knows he lost and a re-election under the current constitution would most likely result in the same thing. Unless Raila wins; the results is rigged. Mutegi stop dragging issues it is very obvious that Raila won that election |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by seguno2: 9:46am On Jan 27, 2008 |
@Mutegi, What will you do if someone is about to rape your sister/wife? i.e. he has a weapon, his trousers is down etc? Will you continue to watch him/walk away to report to the police/judiciary knowing that in the meantime the honour of your sister/wife and by extension your honour will be eternally defiled? That my friend is what Kibaki did: - Named new justices, a few days before elections. - Named new electoral commissioners a few weeks before elections. - Bought sophisticated anti-riot gear for para-military & police units a few months before elections. - Banned live broadcast a few minutes before fraudulent results were announced. - Pressured the ECK chairman to announce fraudulent results and gets sworn in hurriedly. IMO, Raila has been a gentleman & statesman in his response to the daylight rape committed, not against him but against the 70% eligible voters who withstood the deprivations necessary on 27th December to express their desire for change. You should inform yourself of what happened in other Afriacn countries: - Madagscar (2001/2002) - Ivory Coast(2000) When you compare ODM's restrained response with these two cases you will give kudos to Raila & his team. Nevertheless, there are miscreants, who misunderstand the advise to "protect your vote" and interprete it to mean its time to settle old scores, which they tried to settle through the ballot box but some old men would rather thwart their non-violent expression. What is clear is that this will only be a long drawn stalemate since Kibaki has allowed himself be held hostage by his cronies even though ODM has been making all the concessions despite having won the elections. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by seguno2: 9:55am On Jan 27, 2008 |
Mutegi: I guess you should have continued, under the current constitution, electoral commission & judiciary. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by seguno2: 10:08am On Jan 27, 2008 |
On 14 January, I had written: "BTW, Mutegi sounds like a Kenyan name contrary to his claims of not being Kenyan. Just wondering why a person would deny his nationality- hidden agenda of image laundering  "Well, I have confirmed that your name is indeed not only Kenyan, but Kikuyu (same tribe as Kibaki): http://www.just-think-it.com/sbn/kikuyu-m.htm I can now put your irrantional rants here into proper context. Have a blessed Sunday. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Mutegi: 3:59pm On Jan 27, 2008 |
On 14 January, I had written: WIth due respect sir, do you use your name in online forums? Now you understand your investigations are shoddy and without warrant. My initials are M.U. take it or leave. Now instead of personal attacks, what do you call irrational I think i have been consistent and backed everything with evidence. @Mutegi, Apples and oranges comparison; i don't think i would kill a neighbor because of elections. Named new electorl commissioners a few weeks before elections I just read online there tenure was up and Kabaki reinstated ECK boss after Raila demanded his extension. So ECK boss was not the president choice but Raila’s poster child. http://allafrica.com/stories/200710121142.html
Can’t comment on that no evidence to correlate your claim. Banned live broadcast a few minutes before fraudulent results were announced. Now do not distort things just to make an argument; live media was banned 3 days after election. Raila was using it to incite protestors: what would you have done? Never forget radio Rwanda and consequence of its actions. I think I support that move now after it was reported Raila was behind the genocide. IMO, Raila has been a gentleman & statesman in his response to the daylight rape committed, not against him but against the 70% eligible voters who withstood the deprivations necessary on 27th December to express their desire for change. You should inform yourself of what happened in other Afriacn countries: Please just define gentleman; Koffi Annan the mediator is even appalled by the atrocities caused by ODM supporters. If Raila as a lawmaker cannot uphold the laws; then it is plain clear what he stands for, Violence. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7210419.stm When you compare ODM's restrained response with these two cases you will give kudos to Raila & his team.Nevertheless, there are miscreants, who misunderstand the advise to "protect your vote" and interprete it to mean its time to settle old scores, which they tried to settle through the ballot box but some old men would rather thwart their non-violent expression. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/6746609f72cafb0aad957ee7a54dece4.htm Sir read that and tell me where Raila and his supporters has shown restraint. There is no room for doubt about the organized nature of the violence. Interviews with the refugees make it clear that the militias that destroyed their lives have clear and precise information about the homes and property of the target groups: the destruction of property. Now the ethnic militia is spiraling out of control. Very soon no one will be able to control them. For the rest of the world; can Raila show at least evidence the elections was rigged? All we have is intuition and speculation that elections was short of standards. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by seguno2: 6:08pm On Jan 27, 2008 |
@ Mutegi, I think you should stop pasting repeat links of stale news item that only serve to stoke the inter-ethnic violence fire but join the search for peace based on justice. You may want to read: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hu1q9MI4JTHR_27gg8FtQ6zvvFSwD8UEAFCG0 includes the quotes: - torched by members of President Mwai Kibaki's tribe exacting revenge on their Luo rivals. Police, apparently overwhelmed, did not intervene. - "We have moved out to revenge the deaths of our brothers and sisters who have been killed, and nothing will stop us," said Anthony Mwangi, hefting a club threateningly. "For every one Kikuyu killed, we shall avenge their killing with three." No one knows where this spiralling violence will lead to, all due to one old man & his cronies hanging onto power at all costs even in the face of widespread rejection. I hope both sides will reach a compromise soon that does not sweep the issue of justice/punishment for election result falsifiers and violence perpetrators aside. Otherwise the tension will last till the next elections whenever that is and there will be a repeat of this orgy of violence if people's wish is not respected. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by Mutegi: 8:00pm On Jan 27, 2008 |
I think you should stop pasting repeat links of stale news item that only serve to stoke the inter-ethnic violence fire but join the search for peace based on justice. i think i posted news clip dated jan 24 and jan 26 and today is jan27. Stale news i dont think so. Contrary to what you think; i'm all for peace.The greatest delusions that men have started wars based on the concept of a 'clean war' i.e a war that will hurt the enemy and leave us unaffected.The idea that it can be controlled, and switched on and off is myopic. Attacks on the enemy will only result with retaliation and more mayhem. Is that not what is happening now; heroic gangs forming to protect there people and hurt the enemy. Is it really about elections anymore? |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by bibiking1(m): 12:10am On Jan 28, 2008 |
i think i posted news clip dated jan 24 and jan 26 and today is jan27. Stale news i don't think so. Yes it is Mutegi |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by seguno2: 7:39am On Jan 28, 2008 |
Mutegi: It is still about the fraudulent presidential elections. You do not cure malaria by giving paracetamol and multivitamins. The patient is likely to die that way after showing initial signs of recovery. Until the root cause of the election fraud is dealt with and all Kenyans have a sense of equal ownership of the country, it is just a matter of time before the country is overwhelmed with self-destruction. That is what Nigeria went through after the annulment of the June 12, 1993 elections. This was despite an army general being in power; he had to step aside when the heat was too much. The interim arrangement that succeded him also collapsed within 90 days or so, despite being headed by a Yoruba man from the same state as the unannounced winner of the June 12 elections. The army general who took over and ruled for almost five years was so terrified of the civilian opposition despite terrorising people himself that he could not move much outside Aso Rock villa until he died like a chicken. Yet Nigeria relies on oil, which is less suceptible to civil disobedience and widespread violence, which is not the case with Kenya. Lessons for your country, Kenya I hope but then someone is quoted as saying that: That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach - Aldous Huxley Maybe, just maybe Kenya will be an exception. |
| Re: In Support Of Kenyan Electoral Violence by romeo(m): 11:25am On Jan 29, 2008 |
I don't think any right thinking man will justify the barbaric actions taking place in Kenya because of a rigged election? it is no more about the election but about tribal pride and grudges that has been brewing for years, after the death of many people one would've expected the whole thing to calm down but it has turned into a " you killed my brother and i will revenge Chinese kung fu film stuff". To me there is no saint on both sides but the ODM is systematically looking for civil war |
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