Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? - Religion (4) - Nairaland
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| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by Obrian1: 2:10pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
Let us lay this trivial issue aside. I believe as christians we have to believe that there is ONE GOD who operates or reveals himself to man in different beings of is personality. However, this personalities may be in operation at d same time as the case is at the baptism of Jesus, where the father was talking, the holy spirit of God manifesting himself like a dove in the presence of Jesus Let us not confuse ourselves with any name of God's principle of his revelation to men because d principle of God's revelations to his children is clear. |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by truthislight: 2:27pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ Ijawkid and truthislight,^^^ is that where the bible called the holy spirit "God"?  You are really a character! So God made a mistake for calling his son God and forgot to call the holy spirit "God"? Isaiah 9:6 Yahweh called himself God almighty but forgot to call the holy spirit "God" ? Exodus 6:3 Yahweh called satan god but forgot to call the holy spirit "God"i 2corinthians 4:4 though Yahweh said that their are many gods he still forgot to call the holy spirit "God" though men are reference as god in the bible Yahweh still forgot to call the holy spirit "God" Yahweh use his power holy spirit to write the bible, like you had said that the "holy spirit is a person/God" that means it forgot to identify himself as "God"? you had said that the bible CALLED the holy spirit a "God" when it does not, so, what does that make you? = a LIAR |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by Nobody: 2:29pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
plappville: Really |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by Nobody: 2:32pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
Cognitive dissonance: –noun Psychology . anxiety that results from simultaneously holding contradictory or otherwise incompatible attitudes, beliefs, or the like, as when one accepts the trinity doctrine. Jehovah God is not a God of confusion. He wants us to know. Jeremiah 33:3 |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by ijawkid(m): 3:29pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ Ijawkid and truthislight, That verse nver said the holy spirit or the spirit of Holiness is GOD..... Verse 3 says annanias tried to cheat the spirit of Holiness.... Verse 4 never says that that spirit of holiness is GOD...it didn't goshen....its not explicit......... ## for example if one embraces the spirit of the world that person automatically belongs to Satan who is the source of that spirit.....that doesn't make that spirit that pervades the world a person.... Similarly annanias lieing to the spirit of holiness is tantamont to him lieing to the source from which that spirit came from..and that source and person is GOD..... Ok to clarify issues show more verses that explicitly show the holy spirit is a GOD or GOD...there has to be isn't it??....we need explicit verses that will say ""the holy spirit is a GOD or that the holy spirit is GOD""...or where someone or Yahweh says that the holy spirit is ""ELOHIM""..... For this trinity dogma to hold there must be explicit verses not vague verses.... And on the 1 corinthians 11:3.... U don't have to wonder why the holy spirit isn't on that list.....I want u to use ur imagination to fix the holy spirit on that headship laDder... If it is a person there must be a way out... Except we can conclude that the holy spirit is just like the other myriads of angels in heaven..(They are also called ELOHIM)....so as not to be fixed on that arrangement... Remember we have to be fully convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the holy spirit is GOD and that it is or he is a person...... ********* I will like u to analyze this scripture and ask urself pertinent questions.....1 corinthians 2:12 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. ..... Now can u kindly tell us on this forum here if the spirit of the world is a person...... Is it?? |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by truthislight: 6:22pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ Ijawkid and truthislight, ^^^ this your question why is it that sin against the holy spirit will not be forgiving is very elementery! Let me help you out. IN my last post i had explain why sinning against the holy spirit is a sin against God. Now, why will sin against Yahweh be forgiving and sin against Jesus will be forgiving but sin against the holy spirit will not be forgiving? This will be a straith forward answer cus it is very elementery. Eg. In this forum NL/other places there are those (eg atheist) that dont have the accurate knowledge about Yahweh and his son Jesus christ and as such they say all sort of things about Yahweh and Jesus christ out of ignorance even insulting them. This is similar to a child putting his hand into fire cus it (s)he does not know what it is doing and need to be help/protected, it/they atheist can be forgiving since it is a function of ignorance. but not the same with a sane adult Deliberately putting his hands into fire, such an act cannot be excused. And such people ^^^^ cannot have the free gift of the holy spirit since they dont have a use of it and dont have a recognition by God for such a gift. God searches the heart of men and even the kidneys and knows what the awareness is. When some one come to an accurate knowledge of truth God GIVE him the free gift of the holy spirit for rightiouse acts and purposes, if this individual for whatever reasons, if greed or whatever makes him to decide to work contrary to the leading of the holy spirit in righteousness, and DELIBERATELY go contrary to it in doing what is bad unrepentantly, this gift that he willfully turn against is called sinning against the holy spirit. For such individual the essence of the massage about the christ is no longer of value and such individual is not what God's kindness is meant. His chapter is a close case since he was neither deceived or ignorant but wilfully rejected God's undeserved kindness. Such individual will undergo an everlasting destruction. A death without resurrection........... Ie. The spirit of God that kept him alive Goes back to God without it ever coming back to bring him back to life. In that case his soul(life) is dead and is dead for all eternity. This is a thing that only the almighty God can do/achieve since he is the custodian of the force that keep humans alive. QED This is what is meant by sinning against the holyspirit. Peace |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by Goshen360(m): 10:00pm On Sep 07, 2012 |
@ Ijawkid and truthislight, I beg of you guys as my brothers in the Lord......what you don't know is beyond you. I will no longer be part of this argument if you guys are taking side with frosbel to say the Holy Spirit is NOT a distinct being BUT a force or enabling power to believers from God. If this is your conviction, it will be hard for me to deal with this since we are NOT on the same page. This is the whole essence of this argument - you guys believe like some Christian sect, that the Holy Spirit is NOT a distinct being but a FORCE. I do not intend to do a repetitive job here as a brother had clearly dealt with this issue of Holy Spirit being a force or a distinct being. You can read here: https://www.nairaland.com/1038318/34-reasons-why-holy-spirit/2. I intend to give you guys more scriptures to prove the Holy Spirit is also God BUT since I realize the contention is that you have believed and bent on the Holy Spirit being a FORCE or DIVINE POWER, not a distinct being, then I don't think I want to go further as I do not have more strength for this argument anymore. |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by Freksy(m): 11:18pm On Sep 09, 2012 |
[quote author=Goshen360 |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by Freksy(m): 8:16am On Sep 10, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ truthislight, The holy spirit is not God. It is a possession - something that belongs to someone. It belongs to God. He uses it to accomplish His purpose. God can empower you with it to do great things. This explains why it is often sent by God. It also explains why one can pray to God for holy spirit and not vice versa. See the scripture below: "Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me." -Psalms 51:11 (NKJV) The expression: "your Holy Spirit" shows it is a possession of God. Does it not remind you of the expression: "the spirit of God"? Both expressions imply that God is the altimate source/supplier of the Holy Spirit. If one talks abusively of it, he is abusing its source. How did Peter know that Ananias was lying? It is because God had already revealed everything to Peter through His Holy Spirit. Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit in the sense that whtat he presented to peter contradicted the revelation by God through His Holy Spirit to Peter. In reality, it means lying to God, the altimate source of that revealing power or force. Hence, when Ananias lied to the holy spirit, he in actuality was lying to the provider/source of the holy spirit (Jehovah). That is the import of Acts 5:3-4 you quoted. That scripture does not in any way imply that the holy spirit is God. See below the case of Ananias' wife and notice how the Spirit is used as the "Lord's" or "God's" possession. Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” -Acts 5:9 (NKJV) ......... Is it different from its usage at Psalms 51:11? Not at all! Should one therefore conclude that this spirit of understanding from God that enabled or empowered Peter to decipher the truth of the matter is God? No, for that would be illogical conclusion. 2 Likes |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by ijawkid(m): 9:41am On Sep 10, 2012 |
Goshen360: @ Ijawkid and truthislight, We rili dnt need to argue about this.... Its the trinity dogma that is causing d confusion,,, If that doctrine was never taught and enforced(violently) in the lives of many we wouldn't be here debating if the holy spirit is a person or not..... The apostles never debated about such issues because they were never there..... No Jew will tell u that the holy spirit is a person and GOD.....never!!!!..... Greek and roman philosophies/traditions/pagan practices contaminated upright truths that were taught by Gods people..... ...... If u were an apostle in the 1st century u wuld never assume God to be a trinity.... Got it my bro?? 3 Likes |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by Nobody: 11:26am On Sep 17, 2012 |
THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY Verses 7 and 8 of the same chapter say, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth* will let,* until he be taken out of the way" Note that mystery is a key word for the identification of this man of sin. The Roman Catholic catechism abounds with this key word mystery, more so than any other ‘Christian’ organisation. In 325 A. D. the Nicene Creed even changed the credible Biblical doctrine of the One God, the Father of Jesus, into an unintelligible doctrine of their trinity. (See Mark 12:28-32, John 17:3, 20:17, Revelation 1:1 with 3:12) This mystery of iniquity was already at work in the time of the Apostles, for some were already [size=14pt]denying that Jesus had shared the same flesh as that of all mankind.[/size] (Compare 1st John 4:3 with Hebrews 2:14-18 & 4:15-16) Instead of believing in a Jesus whose flesh was as capable of producing temptation from within Him, as was that of the rest of mankind; they invented an 'immaculate' Christ. This doctrine became enshrined first, in the Roman church, together with an immaculate mother called the ‘Mother of God’. Thus the mystery of iniquity became consolidated. Protestants beware! Deny these unscriptural mysteries, lest you be a partaker of her sins. Verse 8 continues, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." When viewed with verse 7 (above) this iniquitous system was to have small beginnings in Paul’s day, then later reveal itself when its suppressor (paganism) was taken out of the way. It would continue right up to the return of Jesus, to be destroyed. What better candidate could we have than the current Roman religious and political system. For it boasts its origins in New Testament times, and yet perverts basic essential New Testament doctrines. # The Greek word katecho means to suppress. When the Authorised Version appeared, ‘let’ meant to hinder or hold back. http://www.bibleed.com/bibleteachings/godandcreation/themanofsin.asp |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by kaytytty: 9:07pm On Sep 17, 2012 |
am yet to come across people so confused as d xtians.na wa o |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by Ayomivic(m): 5:44pm On Sep 20, 2012 |
I will like to ask Frosbel and those brethen that wanted to crusify Goshen360 over the issue of holy spirit been God or not one or two questions. 1 are you people been led by holy spirit over this issue or you were just using canal mind to interpret the scripture? 2 if your answer is yes, can you people please tell us the function of holy spirit as specified by the scripture? 3 please, how can you explain this Bible verse "He answer and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given" what mysteries? 4 lastly, is Jesus christ God? If yes, then how? If no, how will you explain Isiaha 9:6? Answer these above questions first then i will come with my own belief of holy spirit. |
| Re: Do You Have To Believe In The TRINITY To Be A Christian? by Ayomivic(m): 4:37pm On Sep 22, 2012 |
I have stay a day to see if Frosbel,Truthsight and others would answer my questions but they did not. I will like to explain my own undestanding about the issue on grand now. Our lord Jesus Christ when he left this world, he did not leave us to our own will but to the hand of holy spirit to be control and guide.And through the help of Holy Spirit we knew things that beyond the knowledge of unbelievers. I think this was what Jesus mean by saying "for you it as been given to know the secret of heaven but to them it is not given" but it is a pity to see that those that were given was cofused too like others religions. A geniue Christians must understand that God is one. That was the first of the commandments but God still explained things that was beyond the knowlege of man when he called we human being god in the book of Psalm " I have said, ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most high (Psalm 82:6)" In the book of John 10:33-34 Jesus refer to the above verse when he was accused of blasphemy by Jews " The Jews answered him for the good work we stoned thee not; but for blasphemy: and because that thou,being man,makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, is it not written in your law, i said you(humam being) are gods." Calling men gods here, does that mean we creat heaven and earth? No. Then why? Remember, in the book of Genesis human being was said to be made in image of God and was vested with power to rule over other creature. Also he said to Moses " i make you like god to Aaron (Gen 4 :16)"this is because Aaron takes commands from Mose and Moses from God. Jesus was called mighty God in the book of Isiaha 9:6. if the Holy spirit was not refers to as God in Bible.Calling Jesus mighty God, does that mean Jesus creats heaven and earth? Why did he called mighty God? Jesus explaind this in one of his conversation with Jews .He said "Before Abraham, iam" another question that would come to mind is where was Jesus before Abraham?The book of Daniel tells us how Jesus was being anoited in heaven. When Jesus was to depart to where he comes from, he said this statement. "All power on earth and in heaven had been given to me" another verse says he had been given name that is above all other names that in the name of Jesus every knee shall bow" Jesus had been given power to rule over the world. About Holy Spirit, some one said the Holy Spirit is power of God.Yes, but there is mysteries about the Holy Spirit. If we say is not person, we must also know that it can come in form of anything. It come like a dove to Jesus and like tongue of fire to the apostles that shows it can come in person if God want.The Holy Spirit comes from God not from the world.He is ruling over the billions Christians in the world to control and to guide them. Are we saying that spirit that comes from God himself to rule the world is not god, if man and Jesus was called gods? If we did not believe this just because it is not written in the bible that Holy spirit is god,how will you believe the worlds "the son of God" when the Bible did not say God have wife? How will you believe the existence of Holy Spirit when you can not see it? God the father is the creator of heaven and earth and everythings in it. He is the God of Jesus and Holy Spirit even the Catholic testify to this. For unbelievers, it is very difficult to accept but we christians know and understand what we are saying. our heart is our witness that we believe in one God not man. |
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