FG to remove career ceiling on HND holders
http://www.tribune.com.ng/31082006/news/news8.html
By TOPE ABIOLA & KUNLE OLAYEMI - 31.08.2006
CHAIRMAN at the Conference of Registrars of Polytechnics and Colleges of Technology in Nigeria (COREG), Alhaji Abba Fugu, yesterday said the ceiling placed on career progression of HND holders would be removed.
He said a report recommending the modalities and framework to actualise the presidential directive for the removal of the ceiling was ready.
He made this known in his address at the opening ceremony of the 45th regular meeting of COREG held at the auditorium of The Polytechnic, Ibadan, Oyo State.
Fugu, who was represented at the occasion by Alhaji Ibrahim Dan Buba, commended President Olusegun Obasanjo for issuing the directive.
He stated that a 17-man committee set up by the executive secretary of the National Board for Technical Education (NBTE), Dr. Nuru Yakubu, to recommend the modalities had submitted its report.
He added that by now, the report might have been sent to the office of the Head of Service of the Federation as well as the Ministry of Education.
He expressed the hope that in due course, all forms of discrimination against the HND holders would be wiped out.

With your HND you can now reach the peak and zenith of your career. Please let goverment send the circular to private employers too.

We pray to see the end of the wahala soon

Hnd is only better, in your dreams!

Yes o. But remember that some dreams come to pass, and this dream of mine has come true already.

Senate Considers Bill on Degree, HND Harmonisation
From Sufuyan Ojeifo in Abuja, 09.01.2006 This day news papers

The Senate has received a Bill for an Act to prevent discrimination against graduates and staff members of polytechnics and similar institutions in Nigeria in the areas of employment, promotion and career prospect.
The Bill, which was sponsored by Chairman of the Senate Committee on Education, Senator Joy Emordi and passed through first reading yesterday, has prescribed a five-year jail term for any person and/or corporate body who contravenes the provisions contained therein.
Cited as “A Bill for Act to Provide for the Prevention of Discrimination against Graduates and Staff of Polytechnics and Similar Institutions in Nigeria and for other Matters Connected Therewith”, the sponsor said that when passed, it may be cited as “Polytechnic (prevention of Discrimination) Act, 2006.
The provisions of the bill, which is awaiting second reading in the Senate, under standards say: “As from the commencement of this Act and subject to the provisions of the (National Minimum Standards and Establishment of Institutions) Act, 1985, which provides responsibility for the establishment of standard in Polytechnics shall remain, vested in the Ministry of Education after consultation with the National Board for Technical Education”
On salaries, allowances, promotion of polytechnic graduates harmonisation, the Bill states, “Entry points of salary, allowance, promotion and career prospect of graduates and staff of polytechnics and similar institutions shall be harmonised with other graduates in all public, private and civil service”.
It furthers states that, “Subject to the provision of this Act, any government agency or private sector that discriminates against graduates and staff of polytechnics and similar institutions in terms of employment, promotion and career prospect, any person.”

.”, corporate body who contravenes the provision of this Act shall be guilty of an offence punishable on conviction to a term of not less than five years or a fine of not less than N500,000 for individual firm and N1,000,000 for public organization and or both”.

why is that university graduate hate to hear that polytechnic graduates are better than them?? Well me i believe it depends on individual capability whether Bsc or HND.

The truth is that HND's produce workers and team people while universities produce leaders. Choose the one you wish you become. There are many smart HND holders but they just don't have the strong theoretical foundation and analytical skills the university instills and that's a fact.

Donzman:

The truth is that HND's produce workers and team people while universities produce leaders. Choose the one you wish you become. There are many smart HND holders but they just don't have the strong theoretical foundation and analytical skills the university instills and that's a fact.

Donzman, does this fact include and affect Accountanting profession?? And what do university people do with the theoretical foundation you claim they have?? What have they been able to do with it in nigeria?? Lastly who told you that polytechnic graduates do not have analytical skills?? I doubt if you know the meaning of the mean analytical. If you knew what analytical means you would probably have used it for polytechnic graduates and not against them.
Cheers!!

Donzman:

The truth is that HND's produce workers and team people while universities produce leaders. Choose the one you wish you become. There are many smart HND holders but they just don't have the strong theoretical foundation and analytical skills the university instills and that's a fact.

Donzman, does this fact include and affect Accounting profession?? And what do university people do with the theoretical foundation you claim they have?? What have they been able to do with it in nigeria?? Lastly who told you that polytechnic graduates do not have analytical skills?? I doubt if you know the meaning of the mean analytical. If you knew what analytical means you would probably have used it for polytechnic graduates and not against them.
Cheers!!

Polytechnics train you to go into the workplace, get a job and keep it. In universities they will get you to take some courses outside your field that will diversify your knowledge which helps to improve your analytical skills because you don't have to think in a box. You think outside the box as opposed to a polytechnic where you receive your 2 year training in accounting and off you go. They teach you how to use the calculator but the university student is taught how to use the calculator and his cerebellum when confronted with certain issues because he must have taken courses in psychology, sociology, economics, name them!

My guy you lie. Polytechnic accountancy students pick courses from almost all the departments. They do all that you just mentioned plus physics, chemistry and biology; name them. Abi you wan argue?? Find out from any polytechnic accountancy student or graduate to tell you if you dont know rather than speculating lies here on nairaland.

ishmael:

My guy you lie. Polytechnic accountancy students pick courses from almost all the departments. They do all that you just mentioned plus physics, chemistry and biology; name them. Abi you wan argue?? Find out from any polytechnic accountancy student or graduate to tell you if you don't know rather than speculating lies here on nairaland.

That's why Polytechnic education is a joke down in Naija. How do you expect to take all those courses and also be ready for accountancy in the space of 2 yuears?, There's a reason why Polys are for 2 years, they concentrate on what you're there for. If you want to broaden your horizon and think outside the box, go to the university for 4 years.

There are no basis for comparison in d first case. Go and read the law setting up a university and that of a polytechnic, you will know that they are quite different so also the products. Also I was fortunate to pass through both, and I can tell you confidently that in engineering and technology,you do not compare i.e ask whoever , , what mathematical courses he/she did and you will see the difference. In accountancy/accounting as mentiioned by Ismael there is a meeting point thats why it seems there is no difference and that deceives you to think HND is better, the meeting point is ICAN it is who passes it that u give it to, even at that if both HND and Bsc graduates passed it and they are to choose without any fear of contradiction the latter will be chosen. In Engineering no meeting point, try and get copy of COREN guideliness for registration, it further explained that. In conclusion, the personnel/faculty differs greatly, there are polytechnics in this country whose Rectors only possess Msc., I doubt if there is any Nigerian University whose VC is a Prof of 5 years standing, infact some Registrars are even PHd holders. I hope you are cleared now.

no basis for comparison, that doesnt mean that some poly graduates are not exceptional good. Note that.

Donzman:

That's why Polytechnic education is a joke down in Naija. How do you expect to take all those courses and also be ready for accountancy in the space of 2 yuears?, There's a reason why Polys are for 2 years, they concentrate on what you're there for. If you want to broaden your horizon and think outside the box, go to the university for 4 years.

I'm begining to believe you are not in nigeria that is why you cannot know the number of years spent to get HND in nigeria. I'm laffing at your myopic posting honstly. You just talked about universities taking courses from other departments to widen student's horizon, and i told you that polytechnics too do same. Now you are bringing in another one that, that is why poly accountancy students cannot do well in accountancy with all those borrowed courses within 2 years. Have you asked your self how the university students manage to cope with the borrowed courses?? If they can cope with all that then the polytechnic students too will cope too. So you want to tell us that you do not know that it takes a minimum of 5 years to get HND in Nigeria??

Omofineboy abi wetin be your name dont bring in naive issues here. What do you mean by professors being VC's in universities? So you too dont know that some nigerian polytechnic Rectors are professors?? Its a pity that you guys talk without facts. Always find out before you talk. And the university you're talking about some VC's are not professors, they are PHd holders. But wait 1st; what has the professor or Phd VC or Rector got to do with the school's standard and output of the students?? Nigerians una can claim standard no be small.

I'm begining to believe you are not in nigeria that is why you cannot know the number of years spent to get HND in nigeria. I'm laffing at your myopic posting honstly. You just talked about universities taking courses from other departments to widen student's horizon, and i told you that polytechnics too do same. Now you are bringing in another one that, that is why poly accountancy students cannot do well in accountancy with all those borrowed courses within 2 years. Have you asked your self how the university students manage to cope with the borrowed courses?? If they can cope with all that then the polytechnic students too will cope too. So you want to tell us that you do not know that it takes a minimum of 5 years to get HND in Nigeria??

To the best of my knowledge, it takes 2 years to obtain a diploma in Nigeria. My mom went to a polytechnic before she moved on to UNN and I remember it took her 2 years to get it done.

Yes, Donzman it takes 2 years to obtain a Diploma in nigeria. Please we are talking about Higher National Diploma and not Diploma. Your mom probably did a Diploma before proceeding to UNN. If she had gone to do HND she would have spend another 2 years to obtain it. And You cannot do HND in nigeria without 1st obtaining a National Diploma. Please the nigerian polytechnic system is structured this way:

National Diploma = 2 years
Industrial Training/placement = 1 year
Higher National Diploma = 2years
Total = ?
Please add it up yourself.

Whatever that turns out to be, a Bsc. holder has more to offer as a leader compared to a HND holder. HND holders are good teamplayers though.

Donzman:

Whatever that turns out to be, a Bsc. holder has more to offer as a leader compared to a HND holder. HND holders are good teamplayers though.

Donzman, what are your reasons for saying that? Its not every University graduate than can be a good leader. university and polytechnics in nigeria are meant to produce different kind of graduates. Yes, uni graduates are trained to lead while poly graduates are trained to do the job. But that does nt mean that all uni graduates can lead and all polytechnic graduates can do the job well or cannot lead. Some unigraduates are even more technical than some poly graduates, while some poly graduates are better leaders than some uni graduates. It depends on individual ability. the certificate or school one attended does not automatically make you better than others, it all depends on you.The truth of the matter is that uni graduates alone cannot start or initiate any project and get it completed without consulting polytechnic graduates; they need each other for a any project to work out well; that is the case with engineering. Donzman nigerian polytechnic system is superb.

I sympathize with Ishmael and his people that chose to beleive this. If the Universities are decayed how come the Poly's are not If UME leaks does the PCE not suffer the same fate I have heard about post UME to sanitize the UNI's but what of post PCE ?
Take the best Poly grad and the best UNI grad and compare. Compare YAbatech with UNILAG,UI and IFE not one fake university. Of course Yaba would be better than some uni but can never be compared to all the top grade Uni's
compare the Poly products in the society and the Uni products; the MD's and the people that make things happen in Nigeria and in the world and make a fair conclusion.

Dayokanu, honestly I hate reading your postings. You too dey yarn anyhow. What course did you read in the university by the way?? I will challenge you openly in this forum if I discover that we read the same course. You are too bias, and you think you can make polytechnic graduates feel they are not better than some of you that attended universities. Na lie you blow there. For your information 65% of polytechnic graduates with HND in the course you read are better than you DAYOKANU.

I studied Chemical Engineering from Ife
Of course some polytechnic guys are better than some university but the best guys from any polytechnic can never be as good as the best from a good University say Ife for example

As regards you taking me up I doubt if you can for I am working with a world class organisation that does not discriminate based on your institution degree as long as you can pass the aptitude test and I doubt I am all yours for the testing you want to give me even if it is not academic even current affairs,IQ testing or any issue . Definitely some poly guys may be better than me mind you I am not the best from Ife

I can say this a thousand times the average student from Ife,UNILAG and UI (after sending out those that came in through fake certs) are better than the best from ANY polytechnic and have you thought of giving me compare the Poly products in the society and the Uni products; the MD's and the people that make things happen in Nigeria and in the world

Pally, I swear if you give the polytechnics the same opportunity, recognition and fundings as the universities in Nigeria they will do better than the universities. Even under discrimination and under-fundings they have been doing better not to talk of when they are properly funded. Yes, the best polytechnic graduates as you feel cannot compete with the best university graduate; but don’t forget that most of the best brains in the polytechnics actually migrate to universities for fear of discrimination, and you probably will begin to think that university graduates are all better than poly graduates. Most universities have it on ground that the best students in most departments are direct entry students who were once polytechnic students (ND graduates). Pally you cannot conduct the same experiment under different conditions and expect to get the same or similar results, its is impossible. Give the polytechnics the same recognition as the universities and give them the necessary funds to carry out research like the universities and see what will happen; they will deliver far far better than Bsc graduates because those that would have migrated to the universities from the polytechnics will obviously remain behind to complete their studies in the polytechnics.

ishmael:

Yes, Donzman it takes 2 years to obtain a Diploma in nigeria. Please we are talking about Higher National Diploma and not Diploma. Your mom probably did a Diploma before proceeding to UNN. If she had gone to do HND she would have spend another 2 years to obtain it. And You cannot do HND in nigeria without 1st obtaining a National Diploma. Please the nigerian polytechnic system is structured this way:

National Diploma = 2 years
Industrial Training/placement = 1 year
Higher National Diploma = 2years
Total = ?
Please add it up yourself.

From that post, I'll say I was right when I said it takes 2 years to get an HND. Think about it, it's like me saying it take 6-7 years to get a Ph.D. because you have to get a Bsc. and an Msc. first.

Ishmael at least we can agree on somethings but not all Organisations discriminate against HND at the one I work with does not If you are very sure of your academic prowess, you are under 25, and you have at least 5 to 6 distinctions in your O'Levels contact me through my personal email get ready for a rigorous aptitude test and interview and we may be able to arrange something

dayokanu:

Ishmael at least we can agree on somethings but not all Organisations discriminate against HND at the one I work with does not If you are very sure of your academic prowess, you are under 25, and you have at least 5 to 6 distinctions in your O'Levels contact me through my personal email get ready for a rigorous aptitude test and interview and we may be able to arrange something

My brother i'm old now o; i was 25 years old 6 years ago when i finished my HND. I've worked for 3 years now and i'm planning to be on my own from next year. Thanx for you kind offer. Cheers!!

Donzman, that was why i answered you "yes". But remember some ND, NCE and IJMB guys go into 200 levels and spend just 3 years to get Bsc or BA. We cannot conclude from there and say Bsc is 3 years. Universities too run diploma programs dont forget. In nigeria HND program is run in 2 phases. You must do ND befoe proceedinf to do HND. In UK HND is just 2 years and it is done in the university or college where they also run degree programs; infact HND in UK is the first 2 years or 200 levels of a 3 year degree program. In Ghana they dont do diploma before proceeding to HND, their HND programs last for 3 years and its not in 2 phases like nigeria. Hope you get my points.

You're more broad and equipped with a University degree than a Poly diploma. High or Ordinary. Try it and see for yourself. The respective curriculum are not same. Degree is Degree. Diploma remains Diploma. If they are anything equivalent, why are the entry requirements not the same, in terms of credit levels?

kayno-Jah:

You're more broad and equipped with a University degree than a Poly diploma. High or Ordinary. Try it and see for yourself. The respective curriculum are not same. Degree is Degree. Diploma remains Diploma. If they are anything equivalent, why are the entry requirements not the same, in terms of credit levels?

Exactly what I've been trying to tell Ishmael.

pally dont use entry requirements to judge. And for your information most, if not all polytechnics require 5 o'level credits as the universities. And i disagree with you that the university curriculum is broader than the polytechnic curriculum; it's not true. Infact it's the polytechnic curriculum that should be said to be broader. Hey most of us have tasted the two systems and we can tell you the similarities and differences. polytechnics curriculum is broader my broda. If you doubt it i can give you the course work for Bsc statistics & HND statistics just to clear your doubt and prove your point wrong.

I welcome the JJC to Nigerian Educational politics. For HND you require at least 1 year + ND+ 4credits.

The polytechnic education and my course content are more compared with that of university. get back later,

dont mind him, yabatech, mapoly and so many polytechnics insist on 5 o' level credits now for admission thru jamb.