Thermostat - Car Talk (2) - Nairaland
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My Experience With Thermostat Removal / Is There Any Advantage Of Disconnecting Car Engine Temperature Thermostat? / Is It Good To Remove Thermostat To Stop Overheating? (2) (3) (4)
| Re: Thermostat by FindOut(m): 8:44am On Oct 27, 2012 |
Ikenna351: The car has seriously suffered.lol. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with more than the last 3 years history of the car. It was used as a government vehicle for about 4 yrs before then and trust government drivers to always go to the cheapest (& very unreliable) mechanics and look for the easy way out always without Oga's full knowledge. no maintenance culture whatsoever. It was during that period that a lot of havoc was wrecked to that car under the hood. For starters, i dunno which 'wise' person decided to convert the car from an injector fuel system to carburretor. That's even aside from the thermostat thing and all. Due to some recent developments, I'm still waiting to see if I'll really get to use it or another car before starting out on full "restoration" of that vehicle, coz i like the car. |
| Re: Thermostat by FindOut(m): 8:47am On Oct 27, 2012 |
sultaan: Exactly what i did recently. Very serious difference.lol. I'll soon reconnect the thermostat hopefully tho. Further developments will dictate if i'll still do more on the car. |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 9:27am On Oct 27, 2012 |
Find Out!: You don't reconnect the thermostat - you reinstall it. There are no wires associated with a thermostat. You'll however need to reconnect the connector to your thermoswitch, which appears to be missing. The wires have probably been cut. Your Lambda Sond needs to be rectified. Right now, with no input to your ECU, your engine is running open-loop emission control, with a non-regulated catalyst. |
| Re: Thermostat by Ikenna351(m): 9:44am On Oct 27, 2012 |
Find Out!: Are you saying the engine is no longer electronically controlled (EFI)? That it has been converted to carburretor? If that is the case, then the engine is no longer managed or controlled by ECU. So, that could be the reason the o2 and cts were disconnected or butchered out. Dont bother about reconnecting or re-installing them, because they got no where to go or anywork to do any more. Unless, there exist a fuel carburreted engine that needs cts and o2 sensors to operate, i do not know of. It could be possible, but am yet to see one. But you still need to re-install the thermostat and reconnect the fans to work as factory. Goodluck. Ikenna. |
| Re: Thermostat by FindOut(m): 9:56am On Oct 27, 2012 |
Siena: Lol. Thanks for the correction boss. What's d bolded please? |
| Re: Thermostat by FindOut(m): 10:04am On Oct 27, 2012 |
Ikenna351: No wonder!  Now i get what a friend told me (good with cars too) when he said I'll spend quite some money and use up a lot of time if i go ahead with my planned complete "restoration"program. The fans, I'll definitely reconnect tho. You guys (Siena, Sultan, Ikenna) are really doing a lot of enlightening here. I love cars a lot, and I'm happy each time my knowledge base increases. 1 Like |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 12:36pm On Oct 27, 2012 |
Find Out!: O2 sensor. |
| Re: Thermostat by willn1: 6:50am On Oct 28, 2012 |
Hi siena, My infiniti qx4 has a very poor accel cud it be due to d mechanical fan dat has been bridged to work immediately u turn on d car. I'm really dissappointed wit d car, for a 3.5 ltr engine its accel is very poor my 3.0 ltr toyota sienna has a far better accel than this car? |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 8:56am On Oct 28, 2012 |
willn1: Hi siena, When you say the mechanical fan has been bridged to work immediately the engine's started, are you referring to the viscous fan, that's driven via a belt? |
| Re: Thermostat by willn1: 3:37pm On Oct 28, 2012 |
Yes dats exactly wat I'm saying cos I checked another vehicles viscous fan n it didn't come on immediatey d car was started so I figured mine must hv been bridged or maybe its just faulty |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 4:28pm On Oct 28, 2012 |
willn1: Yes dats exactly wat I'm saying cos I checked another vehicles viscous fan n it didn't come on immediatey d car was started so I figured mine must hv been bridged or maybe its just faulty The viscous fan is mechanical, driven by the engine via a ribbed / V-belt. Unlike the older mechanical fans, whereby the fan hub was mounted solidly to the pulley, the viscous fan in current models has a viscous coupling, between the fan hub and pulley. It contains viscous fluid, which becomes solid when subjected to heat. It can be likened to a viscous clutch. So when it's cold, it will "freewheel". This means it will still rotate with the engine, but very slowly - to the point it could be held by hand and the engine cranked (not to be tested though!) When the viscous clutch gets hot,it "locks-up", which means the fan will rotate at the same speed as the engine, and provide cooling. Failure in viscous clutches can manifest in two distinct ways - it freewheels permanently, or it remains in the lock-up state, regardless of the engine being hot or cold. These days, most fail in the lock-up state. Failure in the freewheel state means the engine will cook itself. Lock-up will over cool, but at least the engine won't get fried. So it's possible your viscous clutch has failed in the locked position. It will cause sluggish performance due to extra engine load, and over fuelling (CTS will assume engine is cold, and add excessive gas). In some circumstances, the fan blades can actually fracture in service at high RPM, and the fragments of broken plastic will slice through anything they encounter, including your radiator, wiring, coolant hoses and even the underside of your hood. Some mechanics do attack perfectly good viscous clutches, by welding the aluminium housing to the central nut that holds the assembly to the pulley. Best way to check is to try moving the fan by hand, with the engine cold. If you can turn it with just slight resistance, it's working well. If it's difficult or impossible to turn, you need to be looking at a new unit. |
| Re: Thermostat by willn1: 4:41pm On Oct 29, 2012 |
Ok kool, I guess I need a new fan then thanx and I'll get back to u wen I've instaled a new one |
| Re: Thermostat by instinctg(m): 6:02pm On Oct 29, 2012 |
@ Sienna / Ikenna , kindly advice if the carburateur issues also causes over heating ? |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 7:13pm On Oct 29, 2012 |
instinctg: @ Sienna / Ikenna , What carburetor issue? |
| Re: Thermostat by instinctg(m): 7:05am On Oct 30, 2012 |
@sienna , i mean do faulty carburateurs contribute to over-heating ? |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 9:55am On Oct 30, 2012 |
instinctg: @sienna , i mean do faulty carburateurs contribute to over-heating ? I think it would be best if you opened a new thread for this, but I'll respond anyway. A faulty carburetor can only contribute to overheating, if it's causing the engine to run lean. So we're talking blocked jets, incorrect float setting, leaking venturi or worn throttle butterfly. |
| Re: Thermostat by miccodb(m): 12:26pm On Oct 31, 2012 |
@ikenna and siena, get my point right. im not pro removal of thermostat. ofcourse the OP need not remove his thermostat, he has no problem so y create a problem. my argument is removing your thermostat ere in nigeria doesnt pose the threat sienna claims about running cold and slugdge. afterall the engine was overheating already so removal all thermostat just brings the temp to normal running temp or thereabt. removing the thermostat is equivalent to replacing a fusing with wire s when u already know the resistive value of the fuse n wire. most importantly is an informed decision and knowung possible undesriable cosequences. and possible i said cos it doesnt always happen that way in practical. ive had my thermostat both on and off so i know what im saying. @ikenna all overheating issues are not airlock issues. sometimes the cooling system gets a little inefficient and correcting this may requiring changing a few components when a simple thermostat removal will suffice. all im saying is before you remove your thermostat if u really have to then be informed. simple. Mr ikenna ive done alot of automobile engineering not to sound boastful like u but im far far from a novice. and i also believe whoever takes the option of a thermostat removal must have exhausted other option including airlock removal. the cooling system is much more complicated than water, radiator, thermostat and airlocks. |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 2:01pm On Oct 31, 2012 |
miccodb: @ikenna and siena, Your arguement is seriously flawed bro. If an engine is overheating, then there's a problem! Removing the thermostat is merely treating the symptom, not the cause. The thermostat controls the temperature from WITHIN. It has nothing to do with the ambient temperature the vehicle operates. The warm-up time of an engine equipped with a thermostat at idle, with ambient temperature of 39 degrees celsius is the same at -4 degrees. The thermostat does NOT control the engine temperature from outside influences. There is an IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor, either a separate unit in the intake manifold, or incorporated in the MAF. The fuelling is calculated based upon this, and this is the ONLY instance ambient temperature has any influence. Fuel, besides igniting to provide the explosive power stroke, also COOLS the pistons. Which is why an engine running lean will detonate, as the piston crowns become too hot. It's a very erroneous assumption, to feel an overheating engine will be brought back to "normal" running temperature. I work on a minimum of 12 engines in a month - and I'm talking strip down and rebuild. Sludge is formed in an engine, when the oil temperature is below the optimum of 80 - 85 degrees celsius for prolonged periods. Condensation forms in the intake tract, and mixes with the oil in the pan. You're forgetting most modern cars have a "heat exchanger", a device that allows the coolant temp to directly influence the oil temperature. Oil heats slower than coolant at low rpm. Coolant running at 45 - 60 degrees due to no thermostat, will drop oil temps to approximately 50 degrees, which means that a 10W-40 weight oil will be as useless as having groundnut oil in the engine. A two-hour trip at a constant speed of 60 mph will see coolant drop as low 40 degrees, and at this point, your oil will be... It's not a coincidence that reliable cars suddenly need engines at about 80,000 miles, and less than a year after being used in Nigeria. And the same car will cover over a quarter of a million miles pre-Nigerian use. miccodb: You may well have done a lot of automobile engineering, and I have no reason to doubt you. But you're analogy here is disturbing. An engineer will get down to the root cause of a problem, rather than degrade the engine further, by removing key components. As I've stated in previous posts, these are not my opinions, these are scientific facts. The laws of physics. A thermostat is a device that controls temperature of a fluid, or gas, regardless of external temperatures. In the case of an internal combustion engine, the thermostat is controling the temperatures created by combustion and internal friction. Not the temperature from the exterior. As an engineer myself, my integrity is important. I will NOT compromise the integrity of an engine in any way, even if the owner of the vehicle insists I take an unverified short cut. It it all goes horribly wrong, other clients will conveniently get only half the story from the owner of the vehicle, he or she will conveniently withold the fact the shortcut was done with their express authority. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Thermostat by onyeego(m): 3:52pm On Oct 31, 2012 |
Ikenna and Siena,I have a Mercedes Benz 190 that is pre 90, I love the car cos of its ruggedness and reliability. I know that the thermostat have been removed long ago based on the assumption that it causes overheating and the fan blade is welded to the engine. Whenever I drive the car the temperature gauge is usually below 80 but it rises rapidly when idling but doesn't overheat. I also observed that the temperature gauge will show readings slightly above the 40 degrees mark whenever the ambient temperature is cold(say when it rains) I will like to know if I will have the thermostat reinstalled and other things I need to do. Note:After going through the thread I called the mechanic to tell him of my intention to reinstall the thermostat but he strongly advised against it. Thanks 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Thermostat by auhanson(m): 10:09pm On Oct 31, 2012 |
onye ego: Ikenna and Siena,I have a Mercedes Benz 190 that is pre 90, I love the car cos of its ruggedness and reliability. What you could have done should have been to change the thermostat from that of temperate zone to tropical, it's sold in our market-i did same to my 190 cos i love the car so much: You can also install an extra big factory mercedes benz fan at the front,with a big radiator too, in that manner, you would not have any rise in temperature even while idle with or without your ac on..Also, I gues your fan blade were welded because the fan magnetor was faulty and was blowing up your fuse, hence couldn't blow fast anymore..there is nothing wrong about that anyway, though you could have just change the magnetor or buy a new blade with magnetor cheers |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 10:49pm On Oct 31, 2012 |
onye ego: Ikenna and Siena,I have a Mercedes Benz 190 that is pre 90, I love the car cos of its ruggedness and reliability. Without a thermostat in place, your engine temperature will be controlled by ambient temperature. So in traffic, your coolant will creep up to the 80 - 85 degree mark, but drop to the 40's when doing a constant speed. Not good. From what you've also described, your fan viscous clutch has been welded to the pulley. So your engine is actually over cooling, and over working. That rigid-driven fan must sap a fair bit of power from the crank, and rob you of decent fuel economy too. I would advice you to change your mechanic. Or strongly insist he replaces the thermostat, and get another viscous fan assembly. It's your car, you tell him what you want, not the other way round. You're letting him bully you into submission. 1 Like |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 10:53pm On Oct 31, 2012 |
au.hanson: Bro, you're giving him wrong advice! What fan fuse?? The Mercedes-Benz W201 had a mechanical fan, with a viscous clutch, driven by the engine. There may well have been an electric fan, for the aircon condenser, if it had aircon. And there's plenty wrong with a welded fan viscous clutch. |
| Re: Thermostat by onyeego(m): 12:07am On Nov 01, 2012 |
Siena:Thank you Siena,I must commend you guys for the good job you do here. I will do as you have advised 1st thing tomorrow, I will also update you and seek for your advise as the need arises. I read in this thread where you said something about coolant and ratio 50:50. Kindly recommend a brand that will be suitable for my 190 Formally, I use to think that cooler the engine the better but thanks to you guys I know better now. Thanks once again. |
| Re: Thermostat by segun2012: 4:38am On Nov 02, 2012 |
Dear Sienna and Ikenna, pls i need ur assistance on thermostat issue. i bought a Toyota camry '96 threee months ago (registered one). My 1st ever car, then i observed that i top d water in d radiator up almost everyday. i complain to my Mech, he told me dat he'll av to remove d thermostat, that he was surprise to still found it in there as a "Naija used car"... So he removed it and told me that i won't av cause to top d water in d radiator up anymore. To my surprise it didn't work as i still top it up on a daily basis. My neighbour told me that i shouldn't av allow him to remove it, but i felt am still on a right path. Then i travelled to Ijebu ode from Lagos, getting to dere, as i switched d engine off, i was ask to restart it and move forward to allow others park there car, to my disappointment, it didn't start again. i cald a Mech d following day n he discover that my fuel pump is damaged, and i had to change it. Then my car once again start n i was able to move it. After reading much on this thread, i think it's appropriate for me to fix d thermostat back. My car consume more fuel at d same time...... Pls how do i go about fixing d thermostat. Pls assist me....08033788547 call me, i'll return ur the call immediately i identify u. Pls help me.... God bless |
| Re: Thermostat by Ikenna351(m): 6:51pm On Nov 04, 2012 |
segun-2011: Your car is running thirsty because the thermostat was removed. You need to get the thermostat back to the thermostat housing. Test the thermostat before you put it back, i mean the one removed. How to test the thermostat, has been treated here. Find it and read. If you can get a new one, of the same part number or degree celsius removed, better. Thermostat or no thermostat, has nothing to do with loss of fluid in the cooling system. Thats what the clown should have dealt with, and not removing the thermostat or wondering why it hasnt been removed all the while as "Nigerian used". This thing with Nigerians and thermostat removal theory! What a mindset! There must be a leakage, that causes the reduction or low fluid in the system. It could be a leaking radiator, worn radiator/expansion bottle cap seal, leaking hose, leaking head gasket, unclamped lines/hoses,etc. Like i said, he needs to find it. If he is not good enough, find a better clown or a true mechanic. I believe your radiator fans are spinning constantly. Of course, for him to have thought of thermostat in the system as a bad thing, he would see a radiator fan working as factory as weird. So, he would connect them to spin constantly. Dont bother to ask me how i knew, because its what they do. It will sound weird to me if your fans still spin as factory designed. Get those fans back to how the manufacturer of that car designed it. Also, if you want to get rid of rich running, mix water and coolant in the system 50:50. And finally, make sure someone bleeds the cooling system, when the whole job is done. If not, the system, including the engine, will overheat like HELL! Goodluck. Ikenna |
| Re: Thermostat by sultaan(m): 6:14am On Nov 05, 2012 |
If its not a leak bad radiator cap + water in cooling system = evaporation its up to owner to figure that one out, no e-miracle here |
| Re: Thermostat by 18wheeler: 8:54am On Nov 05, 2012 |
I just disconnected a bypass done on my honda 99 accord ex thermoswitch. I notice that anytime the fan switches on, both radiator and a/c fans spin even if a/c isnt working. Does a/c fan come on even when a/c isnt being used? Or I need to probe deeper. Tx |
| Re: Thermostat by auhanson(m): 5:27pm On Nov 05, 2012 |
Ikenna351: |
| Re: Thermostat by olajay5: 6:31pm On Nov 06, 2012 |
@Ikenna and Siena, thanks for your very educative analysis. Please I need your help on how to fix the overheating problems of my car. I drive a Toyota Corolla 2008 model and the mileage is just about 32,000 but surprisingly I started having overheating problems especially when the AC is ON and in whenever I am in traffic. I took it to the mechanics and expectedly they advised that I reconnect the fan to run directly and remove the thermostat but having read through your advice, I refused and the mechanic said there is no other ways around it (I believed based on his own capacity). I have recently flushed the radiator too but all to no avail. Please did you guys know anybody who can help me fix the problem? I stay in Lagos. I will really appreciate if you can recommend a competent person that can help me out. My email address is sojay5@yahoo.com. Kind regards, |
| Re: Thermostat by Nobody: 6:55pm On Nov 06, 2012 |
^^^ Does your fan cut in, when the car is stationary for extended periods? Where does your temperature gauge sit when: * You're completely stationary? * You're stuck in slow traffic? * You're doing highway speeds? When the engine's "overheating", what does your temperature gauge read? |
| Re: Thermostat by olajay5: 9:39am On Nov 07, 2012 |
^^^ Thank you for your response. The condition under which the car overheated is not specific. However, based on my observations, the temperature gauge raises above the mid-level and reach the uppermost level (and blinking). Sometimes it happens at high speed (say at 140kph) and come down to mid-level immediately once I reduce the speed to like 100/80kph. Sometimes it rises when the AC is on and come down immediately once I put off the AC. At another time it will rise up in traffic either the AC is on or not. And sometimes, it may just stay in the middle level bearing all the conditions mentioned above. So I am a bit confused. For example, I drove more than 2 hours yesterday with AC on and the temperature gauge stays in the mid-level throughout. But I also observed that it happens more often when the AC in on high and during the day when the day is sunny (when the weather is hot). Kindly help. Thanks. |
| Re: Thermostat by cretin: 4:47pm On Nov 07, 2012 |
you might have air in the system...also confirm if you are using coolant or ordinary water in ur radiator |
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