It depends on which field of engineering but to be honest nigerian engineers are not creative or not ingenious like there counterparts because we have no scientists.Correct scientists give engineers the theories and assumptions they ose on field.

If Nigerian Engineers were competent you would have 24hrs of electricity.
You would have witty inventions etc etc.

But the only positive thing is they can be trained and they can rank xerox any idea and make it come to pass.

@blasterman
Thank you jare, if they were competent how come there is no light or even 24hour water being channelled into everybody's homes, the bridges they build collapse, same with the houses and they have the audacity to even say that they are competent.

bawomol (m), name one USA or Canadian university engineering program with a 5 years program, Just name the university. I know University of michigan , university of toronto , even harvard are just 4 years program.

u are a confused and deranged person. all engineering programs in the US are standardized 4yr program. the average engineering degree takes 5yrs. i would be done with my mehanical engineering degree next semester(making 4.5yrs of school including summer classes). the only way u can complete 120 credit hrs in 3year is if u have lots of AP credits from high school. go to MIT,georgia tech, Duke, University of Illinois and tell them u want to finish ur engineering degree in 3yrs. they would laugh at u and slap u back to nigeria.

What is outdated with laplace transformation or circuit thoery, or DSP . it is the same all over the world. either in Russia, China or anywhere

laplaces transforms aren't outdated. we just don't do em by hand anymore. there's something called a computer. Matlab does laplace transforms. no need for wasting paper.

Look the educational system in the USA and canada is below international standard

yes, harvard, duke, howard, MIT, IIT, grinell, cornell, Princeton, U of I etc are below standard. keep on making a mockery of urself.

that why chinese student do well in USA or Canada school

the claim that all chinese students do well is exaggerated. asians students are good but alot of them are average. they are just more driven to attend graduate school unlike americans that go for the money after bachelors. i would like to invite u to come take a fluid mechanics or heat transfer course here in the US. after u are done with the class, i bet ur ass wouldn't say shit about international standards.

They have taken this courses in a low grade, not that chinese are smart?? NO, they just redo the courses because they have a better educational system.

start listing courses asians have to redo, if chinese education is so great, why do they come to the US??

I have seen people who have degree's in electrical engineering paying local electricians to wire their houses

electrical engineerings deal with the theoretical aspects of circuits and design. technicians deal with the practical aspects. electrical engineering isn't just about wires. a mechanical engineer may be unable to fix a car because his SPECIALIZATION isn't automotive engineering

bawomol:

I have seen people who have degree's in electrical engineering paying local electricians to wire their houses

electrical engineerings deal with the theoretical aspects of circuits and design. technicians deal with the practical aspects. electrical engineering isn't just about wires. a mechanical engineer may be unable to fix a car because his SPECIALIZATION isn't automotive engineering

I truly doubt your claim to be a student in America. How can you write such nonsense. If an engineer does not want to do the manual labour that wiring a house intails, at least he will design the way the energy should be distributed and supervise the labourers(electricians). When I say wiring, i don't mean the manual labour. Wiring (distribution of energy around a house) can be done on the computer. No electrical engineer, of which I am one should be ignorant of wiring a house or an electricians job.
You are terribly ignorant!!!!!!
Who is a technician??
What you call technicians are manual laborers. A technician is actually a skilled labourer. An engineer is definitely a technician.
You claim to be in America yet you use words (Technician) wrongly. Come and I will show my class mate and their houses which they wired themselves. A friend of mine(an engineer) bought a house and completely rewired the house to fit his lifestyle.
Another friend of mine(a graduate from USC) at the moment is installing solar panels in his house.
Your analogy about a mechanical engineer not being able to fix a car is totally wrong and misguided. First of all, mechanical engineers don't specialize in fixing cars. Ever hared of automotive technologists. In America schools have auto labs where students fix cars, even junior colleges like Los Angeles Trade-Tech college fix cars. That's where I fix mine, they do an excellent job. Yet this just a junior college.

By Oyb
first of all like so many nigerians , ishmael does not have the first idea what engineering is about.

i am an engineer. i have worked in power , building services, and i'm currently in an oil and gas company.

i am an electrical engineer by training. i have worked on transmission upgrade projects for PHCN( when it was NEPA), facilities projects for MTN, and enginnering pojects for my current employer.

i spent a year in a leading engineering consulting firm, and i can tell you, everything oyibos do, we did in that firm. the real problems facing engineers in nigeria are as follows

1) nigerians do not value brain work.

engineering is NOT when you see someone putting up a bridge, or laying a cable. that is construction. engineering is when you sit at your computer and agonise for hours, designing the bridge, calculating the materials , the project schedule, trying to capture all the possible issues that might come up. it is supervising the project and trying to ensure that the contractors keep to your design. it is arguments with your client, who wants to beleive that a job that costs 20million can be done for 15 million. however, for your typical nigerian, engineering is the construction worker you see working on the bridge. you visit a ttypical nigerian client with drawings, schedules, etc, and he more or less is not intersted. he thinks its all about building a bridge. he will say, what is all this paper you are showing me

2) nigerians love to cut corners.

you tell a client this will cost n20 million. he says no, do it for n15 million. you know it is not technically possible, but the man insists. even if you refuse to do the project, he will always find someone who will do it for that price, cutting corners everywhere - you specified explosion proof lights- don't worry, we can use waterproof lights instead. so many failed projects occur because a client thought he could get champagne for the price of beer

3) impositions

as an engineer, your final job is only as good as the contractor you use. but too often, the cliet has his own contractor who he imposes on you. the conractor may not even have en engineering background - his recommendation is based on his relationship with the client. so, you have an incompetent contractor who is out of your control

3) too many quacks in the industry

a sharp drafter or technicin, can pick up a lot of the jargon and some rote skills. this may be enough to prepare contract documentation that tyhe client is not trained to access. i have alraedy stated that clients don't want to spend money. you often find them employing drafters to 'design' engineering projects. all the drafetr will do is copy and paste from engineering projects in his employers organisation. its easy to copy what you don't understand. too easy. also, a lot of engineers are guilty of the same thing, copyig designs they do not understand, and presenting them to clients.

4) remuneration
to keep up with the rest of the world is expensive. as an engineer, you have to keep retraining yourself. this adds to overhead. however, in nigeria, it is a buyers market. so many of the big companies mobil, mtn , etc, pay peanuts ( compared to fees they would pay abroad) because they can get away with it. there was actually a time when a client decide to use a foreign consultant rather than my previous employer, but they found the cost too much. they came back to us.

cerainly, engineering in nigeria has a few issues, but i believe there is very little that nigerian engineers cannot do given the OPPORTUNITIES AND RESOURCES of their western counterparts.

finally, you may not know it, but a lot of the so called expatriate engineers are often technicians/graduates of technical schools.

Here comes the quack engineer again. You seem to know all the rudiments of engineering but lacks the exparte to run the trade. What has a client got to do with your profession since you are supposed to set the pace? The truth is that engineers that trained in Nigeria are more or less technicians with an alias. Their knowledge is obsolete and so out of place. Go to any engineering school in America with that your quack degree for further studies and see a couple of 20 year olds with broader knowledge play with you.

OYB said:

i am an electrical engineer by training. i have worked on transmission upgrade projects for PHCN( when it was NEPA), facilities projects for MTN, and enginnering pojects for my current employer

Any technician with less than six months training in America or Asia can do more than that. What type of opportunity and resources are you looking for when you can generate one as an engineer? Einstein, Faraday etc never relied on resources and opportunities to set the ball rolling.

By Oyb
remuneration
to keep up with the rest of the world is expensive. as an engineer, you have to keep retraining yourself. this adds to overhead. however, in nigeria, it is a buyers market. so many of the big companies mobil, mtn , etc, pay peanuts ( compared to fees they would pay abroad) because they can get away with it. there was actually a time when a client decide to use a foreign consultant rather than my previous employer, but they found the cost too much. they came back to us.

Because the clients see you as a mere technician. I know a Nigerian computer programmer that left for lagos mid last year and is making millions because employers know his worth. When a customer is pricing a mercedes like he's buying a Toyota, it means the car has lost it's market value. If you know your stuff, you'll get paid.

Vdd
____|
||
Vdd-------||
||___ vx what is Vx? Ask an electrical engineer from any University in Nigeria , i need the answer in 30 seconds , let me know if they
can answer it. its an NMOS transistor by the way. This is a building cell of all electronics. I only blame nigerian universities, no one can claim Nigerian engineers are incompetent, there is nothing farther from the truth. In this day and age where information is enpowering, u can learn stuff online for free, You dont need to know how to wire ur house as an electrical engineer, but u definitely have to be able to understand the schematics for example, electrical engineering field is so diverse, u have circuit design(VLSI), communications, Networks,DSP, etc,

@ hotfunmi, no comments on my illumination design?

@ all

an 'electrician' ( oyb) had

a 'mechanic' (texazzpete) has spoken

a 'civilian' (penfold) has spoken

what is clear is that 90% of the posters talking are not engineers , are not related to engineers, have NEVER worked in any engineering organisation, yet they consider themselves to be experts on 'the state of engineering in nigeria.

most of you talking are simply doing as texazzpete said, betraying your ignorance. arguing with ignorant people is actually a waste of time, especially when they are under the delusion that they know what they aere talking about .

@ hotfunmi, I'm sure you are an inveterate shopper. you know the palms shopping mall? All the mechanical works there were designed and supervised by engineers in my former employer. by
mechanical works, i am referring to HVAC, the sprinkler system, the piped services, ( cold and hot water supply, diesel oil delievery etc) maybe i should post the design schematics.

the civic center in VI all the M & E were designed by my former employer.( a 100% nigerian company)

MMA terminal 2 was also designed by nigerian engineers.



i said it before, so i'll say it again - go around VI or Abuja. all those beautiful edifices being erected have the names of all the consulting firms involved on signboards outside .

theres no point in posting any schematics of my designs, since most of y'all wont even know what to make of them. i'll just settle for the bling bling used to dazzle management( before we go in for the kill- this will cost . . .)

My first question is "How many of you are engineers?"

If you aren't one, then shut up - you never paid the price to be judgemental.  Many of you don't know what it mean nor understand the discipline.

bawomol:

I have seen people who have degree's in electrical engineering paying local electricians to wire their houses

electrical engineerings deal with the theoretical aspects of circuits and design. technicians deal with the practical aspects. electrical engineering isn't just about wires. a mechanical engineer may be unable to fix a car because his SPECIALIZATION isn't automotive engineering

I'm sorry to say, but this is what I call total nonsense integrated with complete ignorance.   What has electrical engineering got to do with wiring a home or fixing light bulbs.  This is classic rebranding of ignorance.

If you claim to have studied engineering in the United States, you wouldn't make such unintelligent remark about electical engineering because electrical engineering is categorised as computer engineering by IEEE and the manner of discipline gears towards PLC's, PAC's, signal processings, multiplexers, networks and so on.  It is also integrated with computer science and data structure. Where does rewiring come into place.  I don't know the part the globe you reside but this sheer ignorance is just not comprehendable.

@ ivvie, are you minding them, they are showing how little they know.

a little insight into electrical engineering( for those folls who think its all about changing light bulbs)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering

Although most electrical engineers will understand basic circuit theory (that is the interactions of elements such as resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors and inductors in a circuit), the t[b]heories employed by engineers generally depend upon the work they do. [/b] For example, quantum mechanics and solid state physics might be relevant to an engineer working on VLSI (the design of integrated circuits), but are largely irrelevant to engineers working with macroscopic electrical systems. Even circuit theory may not be relevant to a person designing telecommunication systems that use off-the-shelf components. Perhaps the most important technical skills for electrical engineers are reflected in university programs, which emphasize strong numerical skills, computer literacy and the ability to understand the technical language and concepts that relate to electrical engineering.



For many engineers, technical work accounts for only a fraction of the work they do. A lot of time may also be spent on tasks such as discussing proposals with clients, preparing budgets and determining project schedules.[27] Many senior engineers manage a team of technicians or other engineers and for this reason project management skills are important. Most engineering projects involve some form of documentation and strong written communication skills are therefore very important.

The workplaces of electrical engineers are just as varied as the types of work they do. Electrical engineers may be found in the pristine lab environment of a fabrication plant, the offices of a consulting firm or on site at a mine. During their working life, electrical engineers may find themselves supervising a wide range of individuals including scientists, electricians, computer programmers and other engineers.

Electrical engineering has many sub-disciplines, the most popular of which are listed below. Although there are electrical engineers who focus exclusively on one of these sub-disciplines, many deal with a combination of them. Sometimes certain fields, such as electronic engineering and computer engineering, are considered separate disciplines in their own right.


Power engineering
Control
Electronics
Microelectronics
Signal processing
Telecommunications
Instrumentation engineering
Computers

i wonder if ishmael or hot funmi ( that veteran of the streets of VI - maybe because she only works at night she can't read the signs on the construction sites where she services the late night shift construction workers) have even bothered to actually read up on what engineering is really about in the first place.

@Ishmael
it's patently clear you have little knowledge of what a Reservoir Engineer does. You do not even know what a hydrocarbon reservoir is!

The 'design' of a reservoir isn't done by 'whites' or 'blacks'. it's done by nature over millions of years, dummy.
The reservoirs i work on are thousands of feet below the earth's surface.

That's why you aren't an Engineer. You lack simple research skills.

texazzpete:

@Ishmael
it's patently clear you have little knowledge of what a Reservoir Engineer does. You do not even know what a hydrocarbon reservoir is!

The 'design' of a reservoir isn't done by 'whites' or 'blacks'. it's done by nature over millions of years, dummy.
The reservoirs i work on are thousands of feet below the earth's surface.

That's why you aren't an Engineer. You lack simple research skills.

I don't know what a Reservior engineer is. Reservior Engineers work closely with geologist and geophysicist thats all i know in oil fields. But it still does nt make you an Engineer anyway, because you are contributing nothing to the research and analysis reservior engineers do there. I'm not even sure you are one.You are still a glorified mechanic fixing and welding broken pipes for the company thats all.

By Oyb
@ hotfunmi, I'm sure you are an inveterate shopper. you know the palms shopping mall? All the mechanical works there were designed and supervised by engineers in my former employer. by
mechanical works, i am referring to HVAC, the sprinkler system, the piped services, ( cold and hot water supply, diesel oil delievery etc) maybe i should post the design schematics.

the civic center in VI all the M & E were designed by my former employer.( a 100% nigerian company)

MMA terminal 2 was also designed by nigerian engineers.



i said it before, so i'll say it again - go around VI or Abuja. all those beautiful edifices being erected have the names of all the consulting firms involved on signboards outside .

theres no point in posting any schematics of my designs, since most of y'all wont even know what to make of them. i'll just settle for the bling bling used to dazzle management( before we go in for the kill- this will cost . . .)

We are talking innovation here and not designing a structure from a white man's blueprint. I hope you know it's no biggie; Mexican illegal immigrants are the ones that do that kind of stuff in America. The world is world is way bigger and more sophisticated than installing PVC and so on.

Do you even look at the new so called roads and bridges in Nigeria built by the so called engineers? Do they look like a professional job? I think NSE,SPE etc should host more workshops to help these engineers update their knowledge. It's a shame that a modern engineer is calling those cement boxes in lagos and Abj an edifice. Have you been to NY, LA or Texas?

ishmael:

I don't know what a Reservior engineer is. Reservior Engineers work closely with geologist and geophysicist thats all i know in oil fields. But it still does nt make you an Engineer anyway, because you are contributing nothing to the research and analysis reservior engineers do there. I'm not even sure you are one.You are still a glorified mechanic fixing and welding broken pipes for the company thats all.

Kindly ask your geologists or geophysicist friends how many pipes they weld. REs do little mechanical work, so your use of the term 'mechanic' is becoming tiresome. Stand back and listen to yourself go on and on.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but research and analysis is the meat of reservoir Engineering. What else can you do when what you're working on is usually greater than seven thousand feet below the earth's surface?

I see where your inferiority complex stems from. but let me tell you, at the end of your rant here on this forum, we both go on with our lives. only difference is I will remain an Engineer, while you will continue to burn with hate and bitterness towards Nigerians lucky enough to have a B.Eng.

hotfunmi:

We are talking innovation here and not designing a structure from a white man's blueprint. I hope you know it's no biggie; Mexican illegal immigrants are the ones that do that kind of stuff in America. The world is world is way bigger and more sophisticated than installing PVC and so on.

Do you even look at the new so called roads and bridges in Nigeria built by the so called engineers? Do they look like a professional job? I think NSE,SPE etc should host more workshops to help these engineers update their knowledge. It's a shame that a modern engineer is calling those cement boxes in lagos and Abj an edifice. Have you been to NY, LA or Texas?

olodo - people do not design from blueprints (and for your info, blueprints are old school, back when all drafting was done on drawing boards; today, its all about DWGs, DWFs, DGNs etal) they build from blueprints/drawings .stop making a fool of yourself.

as we speak, designs for a palms shopping mall in abuja are ongoing - and yes it's my former employer again!( I almost wish i was still there; but i need this 'oyel' paper )

as to the so called roads and bridges, - who actually told you they are being built by engineers, and not by baba mufu, ( who has no formal training but is a 'contractor of over 20 years experience'? or by ' ' engineering limited which just happens to be run and owned by a the local governemnt chairaman/governor/minister, who is out for 70% chop from the contract? please go back to the romance threads. you have no business here. i understand that you have a thing for me - but i'm already married. for your sake, please do not follow me into the technology threads. the geeks there don't take kindly to solicitations from scarlet women.

maybe i need to school you in the process by which an edifice goes up

the client mets with the architect , who prepares the architectural layout drawings, schedules, etal. when they have agred on the building, they call in the rest of the team

the structural engineer
the mechanical engineer
the electrical engineer
the quantity surveyor
the building engineer

each of these will use the information provided by the architect , the clients specific requirments( also called a deesign brief) , the prevailing environmental conditions to come up with design documentation for the various disciplines in the project.

when everyone is in agreement, the project is typically handed over to contractors to execute under the engineer's supervision


another method adopted is design and build - in which a client engages a contractor ( who he trusts) to do the design and build usually with a third party coming in from time to time to ensure that no corners are being cut, no standards being violated, etc.

i will not deny that we have seeral instances of collapsed buildings. but the media never really tells the full story -

is there actually a supervising engineer?
did the contractor settle the engineer, after which the engineer could not talk when the contractor ugnored bsic standards?
did the client insist on cutting corneres to sva costs?

the following is more eye candy shakara. this is an unrendered 3d layout view of a cable route i prepared for one of our sites. it wasn't actually necessary that i prepare it in 3D, but doing it would give any contractora better concept of what i intend. this is only a small and actually insignificant part of my design. you and a lot of the other semi litwerate posters have made it clear that you dont k now what enghineering is about - so i'll leave you with the simple pictures,( no big schematics)

When nigeria becomes good all sectors will benefit from it. No need to argue on this thread.

@ tommyvex

Thanks for this comment. I cant believe all the crap Ive bin reading. So much emphasis on designing new things. . .n all thats being mentioned are the disciplines that involve technology (electrical and civil). Engineering, n all other sectors cannot grow in isolation of the economy, period! Someone pls give me a discipline that thrives solely on the professionalism of local experts in this country?? Banking, Medicine,

Until we are able to get matured enuff and separate politics from real issues, we aint going nowhere.

ishmael:

Please don't go anything close to HND. Go for a Bsc program. I'm talking from experience too.

ishmael:

Bros, all na story. No body cares about HND holders in Nigeria. Let them stop decieving people to patronize polytechnics and their HND certificate that has a stigma.

ishmael:

when will this HND wahala stop sef?? we are tired of it o. Yar'adua and David Mark should look into it and find a lasting solution please. Or are they trying to tell us that they don't have brothers and sisters with HND that are being discriminated??

ishmael:

My sista, na so people dey talk o. They said people who attend polytechnics acquire enough skills with little knowledge, while those who attend universities acquire enough knowledge with just liitle skills. They said university means universal, so they learn much there than polytechnics.

God dey sha.

ishmael:

Let them stop the discrimination against polytechnic graduates, that's all we are asking for. A level playing ground is what we are asking for. If HND in Accountancy does better than Bsc in Accounting in any aptitude test, the job should be given to the HND Accountancy graduate and vice versa. If HND in QS does better than Bsc in QS, the job should be given to the HND guy, and vice versa. why all these discrimination in the 1st place??

ishmael:

My brother that's the truth o. Nigerians like big big words. Degree looks big while Diploma looks small.

Look at the reforms Ghana just did. All Polytechnics are to award BTech Degrees. This is what we call educational reforms not the nonsense OBJ, his Education Minister and others did last year that eventually got cancelled by Yar'adua. Let Nigeria follow the foot steps of Ghana. See Ghana wey Nigeria dey look down at, their policy makers reason better than our own here in Nigeria.

the root of all the beef. . .

maybe i too shall start my own bad belle  thread - nigerian engineers with master's degrees are not competent!

nigerian engineers with Phds are not comptenet! and so on

let this be a lesson to all those of you still in secondary school - you had better take jamb seriously! thats where it all starts. the choices you make today will either make or break you in the future.

Texazzpete is working upstream oil and gas ( benefits of 2.1)
i am working downsream oil and gas ( benefits of 2.2 - upon all my jacking and abstinence when i was in school! )

so many peeps complaining today were busy partying while the people they are now beefing were living monkish existences in class libraries.

;d

@oyb
Nice find! I had this strong suspicion that his bitterness at the HND/BEng thingy was at the root of all his beef. Thanks for bringing it out.

I'm impressed by your work. . .
2.1, 2-2, all those one don pass away now. . . Let's keep making a success of what we do to prove all these naysayers wrong.

@ Texazzpete, thanx. . .

Ishmael ''unmasked''? But he said he's a technician. Can't see anything new in oyb's posting that points anything contrary to that. He's a technician because he has HND.

I bet you a Petroleum Engineering - HND guy will hold his own anywhere too. And will definitely engage anyone in the oil engineering business to an appreciable level of petroleum reservoir engineering discussion.

I dont think it is correct to say we nigerian Engineers do not design and that instead we do the work of technicians, If we dont do the designs, who else does? Frankly speaking, the engineering sector is onlu successful by the help of all: Consulting Engineers("designers", site Engineers, Technicians, etc. I worked in all these capacities and I think none is more dignifying or down-grading than the other it all depends on WHERE u work.

@ oyb, thanks for that expose on ishamel, i now understand that his argument is based on the agelong rivalry between HND and BSc holders in engineering, let me just say that its not fair to judge one on the basis of the other because HND and BSc holders are not taught the same things in school and they are not expected to do the same job in the industry.

But I still say it loud and clear, anybody that says that nigerian engineers are incompetent should give me an example of an engineering scheme, principle, software or skill that is being used anywhere in the world that nigerian engineers lack and i will forever keep my mouth shut!!! (Please let no ignoramus reply to this because the next thing is that someone will start referring me to the work of construction companies)

oyb, e be like say u wan open an online project mamnagement planning and control class here o!! u wan teach them the contents of five years of engineering school in 20 mins? i wish u the best sha!!

nigeria1. While I feel your pain I don't think your argument that in Nigeria engineering takes 5 years while in the US and Canada it takes 3 or 4 years. Also your suggestion that having a BEng or BSc is what makes one an engineer is false.
To your first point, in the UK you obtain your BEng in 3 short years and they are turning out way better engineers than Nigeria does. Why? Because they expose their students to real life experience and they curriculum is designed in a way that the students at least have an idea of where the theory fits in by having to think for themselves.
To your second point, having a degree doesn't automatically make you an engineer. It takes years and years of experience and accreditions before one can call himself/herself an engineer.

@OYB

I am still surprised.

Make I just add another 1 cent,

@engineer1 or whatever u call urself, for the umpteenth time, a degree DOES NOT make u an Engineer; it makes u a graduate with an Engineering background. Your Experience is what qualifies you as one. It's only in Nigeria that everyone is eager to bear a title. I remember a recent trip to Naija, met one of my old classmates from highschool, who just finished her medical studies from Enugu or somewhere in the East two days prior to when I met her; She walked up to me and said, Delta007, u can now call me a doctor. I chuckled cos there's no way on earth anyone wud give her any leeway or responsibilities to perform her "experiments" when someone's life is in question. The point is, these are professions where experience is VERY vital and cannot be underestimated.

And to the dude that says he's met several "Electrical Engineers" who cant wire their houses, it's quite obvious u aint one. In the first place, Electrical Engineering in itself encompasses several areas of specialization, from electronics to power to controls to automation to telecoms etc. And even in these areas of specializations, there are several responsibilities associated with them. Did those EEs tell u their areas or u just assumed every EE must know how to wire a house? If u think the electricians that do the manual labour actually woke up with a "good" practical idea, u are obviously drunk.

ono:

Ishmael ''unmasked''? But he said he's a technician. Can't see anything new in oyb's posting that points anything contrary to that. He's a technician because he has HND.

I bet you a Petroleum Engineering - HND guy will hold his own anywhere too. And will definitely engage anyone in the oil engineering business to an appreciable level of petroleum reservoir engineering discussion.

Unmasked as in the basis of his argument. He's not arguing to prove a point or to learn anything new or even to pit his logic against anyone else.

He's simply arguing because he's been aggrieved against Engineering graduates for quite a while. Why should this man not turn his spite against the employers that are discriminaing against his kind, instead of hundreds of thousands of Engineers struggling to make Nigeria a better place?

Delta007:

Make I just add another 1 cent,

@engineer1 or whatever u call yourself, for the umpteenth time, a degree DOES NOT make u an Engineer; it makes u a graduate with an Engineering background. Your Experience is what qualifies you as one. It's only in Nigeria that everyone is eager to bear a title. I remember a recent trip to Naija, met one of my old classmates from highschool, who just finished her medical studies from Enugu or somewhere in the East two days prior to when I met her; She walked up to me and said, Delta007, u can now call me a doctor. I chuckled because there's no way on earth anyone would give her any leeway or responsibilities to perform her "experiments" when someone's life is in question. The point is, these are professions where experience is VERY vital and cannot be underestimated.

That's a poor argument there. When you take the oath, then you're a doctor. Have you done your NYSC yet? i edon't think you have, if you had you'd see the miracles these baby doctors pull off in clinics and hospitals everywhere.
You forget that these guys go through clinicals while in school, then go on to do housemanship before even serving.

In my Uni, 400L to 500L dentistry handled pretty much every day-to-day dental treatment for patiens, from root canal treatments to tooth extraction.

Please don't be seen making this kind of argument again o! You seem like a reasonable guy, give props to people when they deserve 'em.

I'm sorry to say, but this is what I call total nonsense integrated with complete ignorance. What has electrical engineering got to do with wiring a home or fixing light bulbs. This is classic rebranding of ignorance.

If you claim to have studied engineering in the United States, you wouldn't make such unintelligent remark about electical engineering because electrical engineering is categorised as computer engineering by IEEE and the manner of discipline gears towards PLC's, PAC's, signal processings, multiplexers, networks and so on. It is also integrated with computer science and data structure. Where does rewiring come into place. I don't know the part the globe you reside but this sheer ignorance is just not comprehendable.

pls mind ur business and dont quote me, when did i say it was the job of electrical engineers to wire a home or fix light bulbs?? can u guys learn to attribute comments to the actually people that posted them??

father ab:

I don't think it is correct to say we nigerian Engineers do not design and that instead we do the work of technicians, If we don't do the designs, who else does? Frankly speaking, the engineering sector is onlu successful by the help of all: Consulting Engineers("designers", site Engineers, Technicians, etc. I worked in all these capacities and I think none is more dignifying or down-grading than the other it all depends on WHERE u work.

I'd be very interested in getting some info/contacts/website about existing Engineering Consulting Firms in Nigeria and their portofolios.

While I feel your pain I don't think your argument that in Nigeria engineering takes 5 years while in the US and Canada it takes 3 or 4 years.

that was a stupid argument by him and an insult to engineers trained abroad. just because it took u ten years to get ur undergraduate degree doesn't make u a PHD holder. it's not our faults that nigerian universities go through strikes and rigid schedules. the stereotypical thinking that universities in the US or canada or the US are easy is plain false. i've gone through it and it sure hasn't been fun. i challenge nigeria1 to take a semester in the US and tell me if it's below standard.