texazzpete:

That's a poor argument there. When you take the oath, then you're a doctor. Have you done your NYSC yet? i edon't think you have, if you had you'd see the miracles these baby doctors pull off in clinics and hospitals everywhere.
You forget that these guys go through clinicals while in school, then go on to do housemanship before even serving.

In my Uni, 400L to 500L dentistry handled pretty much every day-to-day dental treatment for patiens, from root canal treatments to tooth extraction.

Please don't be seen making this kind of argument again o! You seem like a reasonable guy, give props to people when they deserve 'em.

My guy, taking an oath DOES NOT make me an Engineer. I took an oath several years ago (as I pointed out in my first response on this thread) to provide Engineering services lawfully and ethically, just as medical grads do. Even the first day on my first job few days after my undergrad, I remember resolving an issue on a production line that was down for several hours. However, that never made me an Engineer. My experience after a few years made me one. Your point about Dental students carrying ourt tooth extractions, etc just buttresses my point that professions like these are "Practical" professions; the need for EXPERIENCE cannot be overemphasized; that is why you cannot earn accredited degrees from proxy unlike some management programs. Do u know that in N.America and probably Europe, you do not need an Engineering degree to be an Engineer? Go figure!

I'm not taking anything away from Engineers in Nigeria; most of the perceived incompetence is a system failure rather than the profession itself (altho there are incompetent Engineers everywhere, not just exclusive to Africa), hence my applause to my counterparts practising in the motherland, who despite the inadequacies of the Nigerian system have been on top of their game.

Delta007:

I'd be very interested in getting some info/contacts/website about existing Engineering Consulting Firms in Nigeria and their portofolios.

CA consultants limited ( my alma mater) M & E engineers on the palms shopping center, adenuga towers, the civic center (vi) and several chevron and mtn facilities projects(shameless alma mater promotion !) a truly fantastic place to work - one of the better paying consulting firms - though the money still small ( at least 4 longer throats like me )

KOA ( kunle ogunbayo and associates) ;their competitors, also M & E engineers



those are just two-  like i said before - if you are truly curious about getting the names of any design firms in nigeria, just check out the billboards outside of any major constuction project. the names of all the involved parties will be there for you to see.

Delta007:

My guy, taking an oath DOES NOT make me an Engineer. I took an oath several years ago (as I pointed out in my first response on this thread) to provide Engineering services lawfully and ethically, just as medical grads do. Even the first day on my first job few days after my undergrad, I remember resolving an issue on a production line that was down for several hours. However, that never made me an Engineer. My experience after a few years made me one. Your point about Dental students carrying ourt tooth extractions, etc just buttresses my point that professions like these are "Practical" professions; the need for EXPERIENCE cannot be overemphasized; that is why you cannot earn accredited degrees from proxy unlike some management programs. Do u know that in N.America and probably Europe, you do not need an Engineering degree to be an Engineer? Go figure!

I'm not taking anything away from Engineers in Nigeria; most of the perceived incompetence is a system failure rather than the profession itself (altho there are incompetent Engineers everywhere, not just exclusive to Africa), hence my applause to my counterparts practising in the motherland, who despite the inadequacies of the Nigerian system have been on top of their game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering

Engineering is the discipline of acquiring and applying scientific and technical knowledge to the design, analysis, and/or construction of works for practical purposes. The American Engineers' Council for Professional Development, also known as ECPD,[1] (later ABET),[2] defines Engineering as: "The creative application of scientific principles to design or develop structures, machines, apparatus, or manufacturing processes, or works utilizing them singly or in combination; or to construct or operate the same with full cognizance of their design; or to forecast their behavior under specific operating conditions; all as respects an intended function, economics of operation and safety to life and property."[3][4][5] One who practices engineering is called an engineer, and those licensed to do so have formal designations such as Professional Engineer, Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer. The broad discipline of engineering encompasses a range of specialised subdisciplines that focus on the issues associated with developing a specific kind of product, or using a specific type of technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering

Practicing engineers

In most countries, a Bachelor's degree in engineering represents the first step towards professional certification and the degree program itself is certified by a professional body. After completing a certified degree program the engineer must satisfy a range of requirements (including work experience requirements) before being certified. Once certified the engineer is designated the title of Professional Engineer (in the United States, Canada and South Africa ), Chartered Engineer (in India, the United Kingdom, Ireland and Zimbabwe), Chartered Professional Engineer (in Australia and New Zealand) or European Engineer (in much of the European Union).

The advantages of certification vary depending upon location. For example, in the United States and Canada "only a licensed engineer may seal engineering work for public and private clients".[18] This requirement is enforced by state and provincial legislation such as Quebec's Engineers Act.[19] In other countries, such as Australia, no such legislation exists. Practically all certifying bodies maintain a code of ethics that they expect all members to abide by or risk expulsion.[20] In this way these organizations play an important role in maintaining ethical standards for the profession. Even in jurisdictions where certification has little or no legal bearing on work, engineers are subject to contract law. In cases where an engineer's work fails he or she may be subject to the tort of negligence and, in extreme cases, the charge of criminal negligence. An engineer's work must also comply with numerous other rules and regulations such as building codes and legislation pertaining to environmental law.

Professional bodies of note for electrical engineers include the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) and the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) (which was formed by the merging of the Institution of Electrical Engineers (IEE) and the Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE). The IEEE claims to produce 30% of the world's literature in electrical engineering, has over 360,000 members worldwide and holds over 3,000 conferences annually.[21] The IEE published 14 journals, had a worldwide membership of 120,000, and claimed to be the largest professional engineering society in Europe.[22][23] Obsolescence of technical skills is a serious concern for electrical engineers. Membership and participation in technical societies, regular reviews of periodicals in the field and a habit of continued learning are therefore essential to maintaining proficiency.[24]

In countries such as Australia, Canada and the United States electrical engineers make up around 0.25% of the labor force (see note). Outside of these countries, it is difficult to gauge the demographics of the profession due to less meticulous reporting on labour statistics. However, in terms of electrical engineering graduates per-capita, electrical engineering graduates would probably be most numerous in countries such as Taiwan, Japan and South Korea.[25]


@ delta007, I'm not exactly sure  what you're getting at. . . but i hope the above clarifies any relevant issues

How can one link Nigerian Engineer's competency to the poor power situation?

If (most of) the engineers were not as highly competent as they are, the entire power system would have collapsed long ago - There are countless stories of how the people manning Egbin Power station (the largest in Nigeria) had to do emergency service and repair of facilities with virtually no funding and spare parts and use their ingenuity to keep those units on stream.

Like others have astutely pointed out, systemic failures are behind the poor infrastructural situation being blamed on engineers - poor funding, poor training/education system, lack of sufficient oversight and regulation of the profession.

Nigerian Engineers are competent, work hard and are productive. But in a system where they cannot access funding to execute projects, even their best dreams or ideas will remain a mirage.

On the 'when do you become an Engineer issue', the situation is different for Engineers

usually when you take the oath (in N/A at least) what you achieve is Engineer-in-Training (EIT) status, you need at least 5 years of professional work experience before you can now be regarded as a professional engineer (p.Eng) who can now, for example, approve design drawings with his stamp, sort of the way architects do.

Practical experience is the most crucial aspect of attaining a professional/practicing Engineer status, not the oath as such.

Your analogy about a mechanical engineer not being able to fix a car is totally wrong and misguided. First of all, mechanical engineers don't specialize in fixing cars. Ever hared of automotive technologists

good gracious, have u heard of automotive engineer. who do u think designs internal combustion engines. who do u think lectures the automotive technologists at ITT tech or devry, that's right an engineer. engineers perform all duties including, design, analysis, servicing and repairs. all u have are annoying insults. there are elements of fixing cars that are above the knowledge of an automotive technologist from ITT tech. ur friend may be planning to have solar panels in his house but i doubt he would be the one physically installing them. if an electrical engineer can afford to have someone wire his house under supervision, why notl

oyb:

CA consultants limited ( my alma mater) M & E engineers on the palms shopping center, adenuga towers, the civic center (vi) and several chevron and mtn facilities projects(shameless alma mater promotion !) a truly fantastic place to work - one of the better paying consulting firms - though the money still small ( at least 4 longer throats like me )

KOA ( kunle ogunbayo and associates) ;their competitors, also M & E engineers



those are just two-  like i said before - if you are truly curious about getting the names of any design firms in nigeria, just check out the billboards outside of any major constuction project. the names of all the involved parties will be there for you to see.

Perhaps, u don't understand what I meant be portofolio. I meant, what kind of jobs they do? their clients? perhaps their most recent projects or any projects worth knowing?, etc. Anyone can setup a consulting firm in Nigeria. I'm interested in firms that actually design, manage and commission projects from start to finish; not those that just spec and bid for contracts and then outsource; Need more clarification? And by the way, in this day and age, I'd expect any reputable firm to have some sort of e-contacts; perhaps website?

oyb:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering

Engineering is the discipline of acquiring and applying scientific and technical knowledge to the design, analysis, and/or construction of works for practical purposes. The American Engineers' Council for Professional Development, also known as ECPD,[1] (later ABET),[2] defines Engineering as: "The creative application of scientific principles to design or develop structures, machines, apparatus, or manufacturing processes, or works utilizing them singly or in combination; or to construct or operate the same with full cognizance of their design; or to forecast their behavior under specific operating conditions; all as respects an intended function, economics of operation and safety to life and property."[3][4][5] One who practices engineering is called an engineer, and those licensed to do so have formal designations such as Professional Engineer, Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer. The broad discipline of engineering encompasses a range of specialised subdisciplines that focus on the issues associated with developing a specific kind of product, or using a specific type of technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering

Practicing engineers

In most countries, a Bachelor's degree in engineering represents the first step towards professional certification and the degree program itself is certified by a professional body. After completing a certified degree program the engineer must satisfy a range of requirements (including work experience requirements) before being certified. Once certified the engineer is designated the title of Professional Engineer (in the United States, Canada and South Africa ), Chartered Engineer (in India, the United Kingdom, Ireland and Zimbabwe), Chartered Professional Engineer (in Australia and New Zealand) or European Engineer (in much of the European Union).

The advantages of certification vary depending upon location. For example, in the United States and Canada "only a licensed engineer may seal engineering work for public and private clients".[18] This requirement is enforced by state and provincial legislation such as Quebec's Engineers Act.[19] In other countries, such as Australia, no such legislation exists. Practically all certifying bodies maintain a code of ethics that they expect all members to abide by or risk expulsion.[20] In this way these organizations play an important role in maintaining ethical standards for the profession. Even in jurisdictions where certification has little or no legal bearing on work, engineers are subject to contract law. In cases where an engineer's work fails he or she may be subject to the tort of negligence and, in extreme cases, the charge of criminal negligence. An engineer's work must also comply with numerous other rules and regulations such as building codes and legislation pertaining to environmental law.

Professional bodies of note for electrical engineers include the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) and the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) (which was formed by the merging of the Institution of Electrical Engineers (IEE) and the Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE). The IEEE claims to produce 30% of the world's literature in electrical engineering, has over 360,000 members worldwide and holds over 3,000 conferences annually.[21] The IEE published 14 journals, had a worldwide membership of 120,000, and claimed to be the largest professional engineering society in Europe.[22][23] Obsolescence of technical skills is a serious concern for electrical engineers. Membership and participation in technical societies, regular reviews of periodicals in the field and a habit of continued learning are therefore essential to maintaining proficiency.[24]

In countries such as Australia, Canada and the United States electrical engineers make up around 0.25% of the labor force (see note). Outside of these countries, it is difficult to gauge the demographics of the profession due to less meticulous reporting on labour statistics. However, in terms of electrical engineering graduates per-capita, electrical engineering graduates would probably be most numerous in countries such as Taiwan, Japan and South Korea.[25]


@ delta007, I'm not exactly sure  what you're getting at. . . but i hope the above clarifies any relevant issues

Believe whatever you want to believe. But if Wikipedia is your "bible", that says alot!

And by the way, how do u practise without being licensed? Or are u one of those that just read and highlight without comprehending? Even in Nigeria, for you to be registered as an Engineer, you must have "obtained the approved/accredited required academic qualification, must have four (4) years post-graduate experience which must be under the supervision of a senior registered Engineer". So what how does this debunk my point?

@ delta007,[s] you seem bent on showing all of us that you are a numbnuts ignoramus
[/s] i will have to revise this, seeing as you have hastily edited your previous posts

http://www.cacons.com/home.asp

http://www.cacons.com/portfolio.asp?pageid=69

newsletters detailing what they do, and some of their previous projects - ( i played a big part in the 2005 editions  )

http://www.cacons.com/news.asp
http://www.cacons.com/portfolio.asp?pageid=77
http://www.cacons.com/portfolio.asp?pageid=58
http://www.cacons.com/portfolio.asp?pageid=70

and here is koa's portfolio

http://www.koaconsultants.com/pgallery.php


[s]it would seem you are one of those nigerians who only uses the internet for entertainment . (probably Indecency and you tube clips)[/s]

kai! see as he is rapidly rewriting his words! only admin will see his orignal post! I should download this page b4 i wind up looking like the aggressor!