vooks:
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And where did the bible say so?

Ez 44:2

dmandy:
Shalom,

Dear Sir,

Jesus is called the first born according to Colossians 1:15.

Col 1v15 -Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

So according to you, the firstborn of every creature and the firstborn of Mary mean or imply the same thing?

Firstborn of every creature means Jesus is the first thing that came out of the Father, that is, the Word; which now created every other thing.

How is that the same thing with Jesus being the firstborn son of Mary. You just pick a verse, and run amock with any interpretation that suits your end.

This is a case of apples and oranges.

dmandy:
I never saw my science teacher again until he died? Did that automatically translate to me seeing him after he died?

Everyone knows its no longer possibe to see someone who is now dead; so the "until" there lacks the context of its usage in the case of something still possible.

Like in this sentences;

I didn't see my father UNTIL I was twelve?

It means I saw my father for the first time at the age of twelve.

Or this;

I couldn't drive UNTIL I was 28.

It means I started driving at the age of 28.

Then this;

Matthew 1v25 -But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.

That is, Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary UNTIL Jesus was born.

The only interpretation that would not require us twisting scripture, is that the UNTIL explains when the sexual relation started. That is; after the birth of Jesus.

Stop comparing apples with oranges. Give verses their obvious interpretations.

Shalom.

vooks:


Mr King,
Shall we take the inability of Catholicism's finest to back up their claims so far as evidence that those claims are totally unbiblical, or should we presume that they are blind believers of stuff they can't demonstrate from the scriptures, and hope that some higher-ups in Catholicism can bail them out?

They have had over 3 days of consulting and googling,reciting rosaries, burning incense and nonsense, praying to statues and seeking Virgin Mary to possess them,consulting 'Paul' and so forth. Am reminded of Elijah on Mt. Carmel

I go for blind believers . Cherry picking , Unbiblical baseless beliefs , false interpretations and made up stories . I think dmandy should accept he was merely inculcated with Catholic beliefs and tradition which he cannot scripturally prove .

Dmandy , time to give up now and come into the marvelous light of God ?

1 Peter 2:9 :

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

dmandy:
Ez 44:2

Lameness incarnate.
We have hammered Ezekiel and there is no point in repeating it.

My broda, this is not idle banter but may just make a difference of where you spend your eternity. So I strongly suggest you stop kidding around

vooks:
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And where did the bible say so?


Note to KingEbukaNaija,
Which is easier, claiming 'the bible said', or showing us exactly where the 'bible said'?

Its easier to claim 'the bible said' , still waiting for dmandy to show us where he got his claims from

ayoku777:


Col 1v15 -Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

So according to you, the firstborn of every creature and the firstborn of Mary mean or imply the same thing?

Firstborn of every creature means Jesus is the first thing that came out of the Father, that is, the Word; which now created every other thing.

How is that the same thing with Jesus being the firstborn son of Mary. You just pick a verse, and run amock with any interpretation that suits your end.

This is a case of apples and oranges.



Everyone knows its no longer possibe to see someone who is now dead; so the "until" there lacks the context of its usage in the case of something still possible.

Like in this sentences;

I didn't see my father UNTIL I was twelve?

It means I saw my father for the first time at the age of twelve.

Or this;

I couldn't drive UNTIL I was 28.

It means I started driving at the age of 28.

Then this;

Matthew 1v25 -But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.

That is, Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary UNTIL Jesus was born.

The only interpretation that would not require us twisting scripture, is that the UNTIL explains when the sexual relation started. That is; after the birth of Jesus.

Stop comparing apples with oranges. Give verses their obvious interpretations.

Shalom.

Exactly the reason why Jesus was called the first born. And he is the first born.

It is not obvious interpretation sir. It is the interpretation you want it to be. Now, when you forget that the passage was not originally written in English language.

You didn't see your father UNTIL you were twelve? This does not automatically mean that you did see him after you turned twelve. It's debatable.

vooks:

Lameness incarnate.
We have hammered Ezekiel and there is no point in repeating it.

My broda, this is not idle banter but may just make a difference of where you spend your eternity. So I strongly suggest you stop kidding around

Where is your hammer again? No one shall pass through it for the LORD has

KingEbukaNaija:


Its easier to claim 'the bible said' , still waiting for dmandy to show us where he got his claims from

wait no more for Ez. 44:2 says it all.

KingEbukaNaija:


I go for blind believers . Cherry picking , Unbiblical baseless beliefs , false interpretations and made up stories . I think dmandy should accept he was merely inculcated with Catholic beliefs and tradition which he cannot scripturally prove .

Dmandy , time to give up now and come into the marvelous light of God ?

1 Peter 2:9 :

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

You know Mr King,
In my walk with Christ, there are things I have believed simply because I was told. Like they told me to repent, ask Jesus to forgive my sins and save me...and boom! Am a born again believer.

But after years, I had to go back to scriptures and confirm whether these things are true. We can excuse young Christians who may not have had occasion to check all they are fed, but verily dmandy,Syncan,italo,ichiato and ubenedictus are not Catholic kids, so they have no excuse- Romans 1:20

If these questions have never bothered them, doubtlessly by God's grace we have sown some seed in their lives. Now they have no excuse

KingEbukaNaija:


I go for blind believers . Cherry picking , Unbiblical baseless beliefs , false interpretations and made up stories . I think dmandy should accept he was merely inculcated with Catholic beliefs and tradition which he cannot scripturally prove .

Dmandy , time to give up now and come into the marvelous light of God ?

1 Peter 2:9 :

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

The Vooks, it's time to understand that the gates of hell cannot prevail against the church of Christ. I have seen the light and I remain in the light. Two years ago, you would have succeeded with conspiracy theories but thank God I know better now. The church of Christ is laid on a solid foundation. No amount of lies can bring it down.

vooks:


You know Mr King,
In my walk with Christ, there are things I have believed simply because I was told. Like they told me to repent, ask Jesus to forgive my sins and save me...and boom! Am a born again believer.

But after years, I had to go back to scriptures and confirm whether these things are true. We can excuse young Christians who may not have had occasion to check all they are fed, but verily dmandy,Syncan,italo,ichiato and ubenedictus are not Catholic kids, so they have no excuse- Romans 1:20

If these questions have never bothered them, doubtlessly by God's grace we have sown some seed in their lives. Now they have no excuse

Lolx,

You can go ahead and try. But the truth shall stand.

dmandy:
Ez 44:2

You are giving the wrong interpretation .

Ezekiel found the gate shut , not to be opened anymore to the public , except on Sabbaths and new moons .

Elucidated clearly in Ezekiel 46 : 1- 3

Ezekiel 46:1-3



1.“Thus says the Lord God: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

2 The prince shall enter by the vestibule of the gate from outside, and shall take his stand by the post of the gate. The priests shall offer his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate. Then he shall go out, but the gate shall not be shut until evening.

3 The people of the land shall bow down at the entrance of that gate before the Lord on the Sabbaths and on the new moons.


The prince in verse 3 of Ezekiel 44 is an earthly ruler after the new millennial temple under the Messiah and David

KingEbukaNaija:


You are giving the wrong interpretation .

Ezekiel found the gate shut , not to be opened anymore to the public , except on Sabbaths and new moons .

Elucidated clearly in Ezekiel 46 : 1- 3

Ezekiel 46:1-3English Standard Version (ESV)

The Prince and the Feasts

1.“Thus says the Lord God: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

2 The prince shall enter by the vestibule of the gate from outside, and shall take his stand by the post of the gate. The priests shall offer his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate. Then he shall go out, but the gate shall not be shut until evening.

3 The people of the land shall bow down at the entrance of that gate before the Lord on the Sabbaths and on the new moons.


The prince in verse 3 is an earthly ruler after the new millennial temple under the Messiah and David

She was also closed (a virgin) when the Lord came and shall remain so. Why? because the lord God of Israel has passed. Ez 44 and 46 are referring to different gates bro.

dmandy:


She was also closed (a virgin) when the Lord came and shall remain so. Why? because the lord God of Israel has passed.

Lol

The gate is for Jesus' return to earth for the millennial rule and not the first coming to earth through Mary

KingEbukaNaija:


Lol

The gate is for Jesus' return to earth for the millennial rule and not the first coming to earth through Mary

The gate is for Jesus to pass through to earth and it shall remain shut. You can't doubt God.

dmandy:

You didn't see your father UNTIL you were twelve? This does not automatically mean that you did see him after you turned twelve. It's debatable.

If indeed he saw his father later than his twelfth year, then 'until 12' is meaningless. Like if he actually met his dad when aged 17, what point would 12 serve?

If he never saw his father at all, the his 'until 12' is not only meaningless but misleading.

What matters is what is being communicated. When Matthew tells us that Joseph never slept with Mary till Jesus was born, if his point is to communicate Mary's perpetual virginity, then he misleads us by truncating her life virginity to the birth of Jesus.

Supposing Mary was married for 30 years and then Joseph died. Supposing Matthew knew for fact that Joseph never slept with her the entire 30 years of their marriage. What is the point of disclosing a fraction of this 30 year period during which he never knew her? Is it not easier and sensible saying Joseph never knew her for 30 years instead of sticking to a 9 month period while leaving the rest indeterminate?

vooks:


If indeed he saw his father later than his twelfth year, then 'until 12' is meaningless
If he never saw his father at all, the his 'until 12' is not only meaningless but misleading.

What matters is what is being communicated. When Matthew tells us that Joseph never slept with Mary till Jesus was born, if his point is to communicate Mary's perpetual virginity, then he misleads us by truncating her life virginity to the birth of Jesus.

Supposing Mary was married for 30 years and then Joseph died. Supposing Matthew knew for fact that Joseph never slept with her the entire 30 years of their marriage. What is the point of disclosing a fraction of this 30 year period during which he never knew her? Is it not easier and sensible saying Joseph never knew her for 30 years instead of sticking to a 9 month period while leaving the rest indeterminate?

Now you get the point. Until he was twelve is meaningless in a sense, yet you can get the message that he attained 12 years. So it's not completely meaningless.

The bold can be answered if we go into the original Hebrew manuscript and check the possible alternate translations.

dmandy:


The Vooks, it's time to understand that the gates of hell cannot prevail against the church of Christ. I have seen the light and I remain in the light. Two years ago, you would have succeeded with conspiracy theories but thank God I know better now. The church of Christ is laid on a solid foundation. No amount of lies can bring it down.

You are in the light and remain in the light.

Is there a better place to answer these;
1. Prove Mary's sinlessness
2. Prove Mary's perpetual virginity
3. Prove Mary is in heaven

dmandy:


Lolx,

You can go ahead and try. But the truth shall stand.

Sure the truth shall stand,
You don't have the truth with you and this is why you can't give the basis for your beliefs
You believe Mary was a perpetual virgin, was sinless and is in heaven yet you have no proof!

vooks:


You are in the light and remain in the light.

Is there a better place to answer these;
1. Prove Mary's sinlessness
2. Prove Mary's perpetual virginity
3. Prove Mary is in heaven

Yes sir,

Pick up your bible.

vooks:

Sure the truth shall stand,
You don't have the truth with you and this is why you can't give the basis for your beliefs
You believe Mary was a perpetual virgin, was sinless and is in heaven yet you have no proof!

On the contrary, I have known the truth.

The proof is in your bible.

dmandy:


She was also closed (a virgin) when the Lord came and shall remain so. Why? because the lord God of Israel has passed. Ez 44 and 46 are referring to different gates bro.

If passing is delivering Christ,then passing the other two gates are giving birth to men. Who are these tow other women, namely North and Southern Gate?

vooks:


If passing is delivering Christ,then passing the other two gates are giving birth to men. Who are these tow other women, namely North and Southern Gate?

That particular gate is Mary. It is to remain closed. That is where the emphasis is. Jesus passed through one of the gates and not the others.

dmandy:


On the contrary, I have known the truth.

The proof is in your bible.

dmandy:


Yes sir,

Pick up your bible.

But you can't point it out.
I can equally claim that Buhari was prophesied of in the scriptures. Sane hearers of my words would demand proof as am doing. 'Where exactly in the bible?' they would ask

vooks:




But you can't point it out.
I can equally claim that Buhari was prophesied of in the scriptures. Sane hearers of my words would demand proof as am doing. 'Where exactly in the bible?' they would ask

Ez. 44:2

dmandy:


That particular gate is Mary. It is to remain closed. That is where the emphasis is. Jesus passed through one of the gates and not the others.

You don't just make up stuff my broda, WHY is that particular gate Mary?

dmandy:


Ez. 44:2

What part of Ezekiel 44:2 tells me Mary was a perpetual virgin, sinless and is in heaven?

I can point to Genesis 1:1 as 'proof' of Buhari's prophecy

vooks:


You know Mr King,
In my walk with Christ, there are things I have believed simply because I was told. Like they told me to repent, ask Jesus to forgive my sins and save me...and boom! Am a born again believer.

But after years, I had to go back to scriptures and confirm whether these things are true. We can excuse young Christians who may not have had occasion to check all they are fed, but verily dmandy,Syncan,italo,ichiato and ubenedictus are not Catholic kids, so they have no excuse- Romans 1:20

If these questions have never bothered them, doubtlessly by God's grace we have sown some seed in their lives. Now they have no excuse

True . There is no excuse . Even as a growing youth , I started discarding some of the erroneous beliefs - I once thought God came from nothing a.k.a self existent .

Well , the aforementioned are grown men and still holding unto childish inculcated beliefs with no scriptural reference to buttress their claims .

There are even reports of mass exodus from the Catholic Church in Latin America as people are now willing to accept the truth .

An excerpt from Tablet UK

"The Catholic population has slipped sharply over the past century, when their numbers topped 90 per cent. Evangelicals have attracted Mass-goers often by promoting what those converting would consider more attractive ways of worshipping the Lord ..."

More like they have accepted their beliefs are unbiblical and are excited to join in true biblical worship of God.

vooks:


You don't just make up stuff my broda, WHY is that particular gate Mary?

The correct question should read "Why did Jesus pass through this particular gate?" and I am sure you know whom to direct that to.

vooks:

What part of Ezekiel 44:2 tells me Mary was a perpetual virgin, sinless and is in heaven?

I can point to Genesis 1:1 as 'proof' of Buhari's prophecy

Go ahead.

dmandy:


The gate is for Jesus to pass through to earth and it shall remain shut. You can't doubt God.

There are no insinuations of Mary as the gate . You are the one that asserted it's Mary that's the gate .

dmandy:


Now you get the point. Until he was twelve is meaningless in a sense, yet you can get the message that he attained 12 years. So it's not completely meaningless.

It is meaningless because he is narrating it LONG after he got 12. Ayoku777 won't tell you he met his dad when he was 12 while he is 11

The bold can be answered if we go into the original Hebrew manuscript and check the possible alternate translations.

Been there and done that bro.

Prove the following;
1. Mary is in heaven
2. Mary was sinless
3. Mary was a perpetual virgin