vooks:
dmandy,
If sinlessness and righteousness can be accomplished by means other than Jesus Christ, why did He die for us?

there is no other way other than through Jesus Christ which sinlessness can be accomplished sir.

dmandy:


Did the passage differentiate? Or you are adding that it says None, no not even one.

Stop quoting scriptures like Satan.

John 17:9 (KJV)
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

So Jesus couldn't care less for the world?

Very reasonable conclusion if this were the only scripture, but it's not!

John 17:20 (KJV)
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word


Is there ANY verse that remotely points to Mary's sinlessness?

dmandy:


there is no other way other than through Jesus Christ which sinlessness can be accomplished sir.

So how was Mary sinless before Jesus was born?

vooks:

So how was Mary sinless before Jesus was born?

Before Jesus was born God has already chosen Mary and sanctified her for the purpose of carrying the savior of the world. You see her sinlessness is deeply rooted in Jesus who is her savior and whom her soul magnifies.

vooks:

Stop quoting scriptures like Satan.

John 17:9 (KJV)
I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

So Jesus couldn't care less for the world?

Very reasonable conclusion if this were the only scripture, but it's not!

John 17:20 (KJV)
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word


Is there ANY verse that remotely points to Mary's sinlessness?

Hahahahahahahahahahhaa

Did the bible say, none was righteous?

Why are we even having this conversation? Which sin did Mary commit? Accepting to give birth to Jesus?

dmandy:


Before Jesus was born God has already chosen Mary and sanctified her for the purpose of carrying the savior of the world. You see her sinlessness is deeply rooted in Jesus who is her savior and whom her soul magnifies.

Were her parents equally sinless?

dmandy:


Sir,

Stay back and enjoy more. God decided that one gate must always be shut. There is nothing you or anyone can do about it with your conspiracy theories.

And the lie is that Jesus passed through Mary down to earth?

How did you come about the interpretation that Mary is the gate? In the bible, the gates symbolize the twelve tribes, of which Judah, the tribe of the king, would be the Chief gate.

Rev 21v12 -And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

It is the scripture that interpretes scripture. You don't use assumption to interprete scripture. I've given you a scripture that imply gates represent the tribes of Israel of which Judah is the chief.

What scripture did you use to prove that the gate represents Mary.

Please be lucid. I'm tired of assumption upon assumption.

Shalom

dmandy:


Hahahahahahahahahahhaa

Did the bible say, none was righteous?

Stop quoting scriptures like Satan.
Has it ever occurred to you that he quoted them accurately?

dmandy:


God bless you for the bold statement. That is what it is.

Also same thing happened to Noah . Don't you think one of the doors represents Mary ?

Genesis 6 : 13- 15

And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh,[c] for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

14 Make yourself an ark of gopher wood.[d] Make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.

15 This is how you are to make it: the length of the ark 300 cubits,[e] its breadth 50 cubits, and its height 30 cubits. 16 Make a roof[f] for the ark, and finish it to a cubit above, and set the door of the ark in its side

vooks:

Were her parents equally sinless?

I don't think so.

KingEbukaNaija:


Also same thing happened to Noah . Don't you think one of the doors represents Mary ?

Genesis 6 : 13- 15

I don't. Do you think so?

dmandy:
I don't think so.

So how could two sinning parents conceive and bring forth a sinless Mary?

Isn't there something like Original Sin transmitted from parents to kids?

vooks:

So how could two sinning parents conceive and bring forth a sinless Mary?

Isn't there something like Original Sin?

God has answered that in luke 1:37.

dmandy:
God has answered that in luke 1:37.

And why is it impossible or inconceivable for a sinning Mary to bring forth a sinless Jesus?

vooks:


And why is it impossible or inconceivable for a sinning Mary to bring forth a sinless Jesus?

Nothing is impossible with God.

dmandy:


I don't. Do you think so?

Why ? Remember the door was shut . Both Ezekiel and Noah had revelations about Architectural works with descriptions of measurements given to them . You accepted Ezekiel's as an allegory to accommodate your beliefs but rejected Noah's ?

Nwanna I'm wasting my time here . Mention me when you have something different other than repeating Ez 44 : 2 all over again

KingEbukaNaija:


Why ? Remember the door was shut . Both Ezekiel and Noah had revelations about Architectural works with descriptions of measurements given to them . You accepted Ezekiel's as an allegory to accommodate your beliefs but rejected Noah's ?

Nwanna I'm wasting my time here . Mention me when you have something different other than repeating Ez 44 : 2 all over again

And both Ezekiel and Noah actually built a structure.

Nwanne, you can go ahead and waste your time. tell me something new, The Lord passed through the gate and no other should. Get it.

dmandy:
Nothing is impossible with God.

So why is there a miracle of sinners bringing forth a sinless Mary and not one of a sinning Mary bringing forth a sinless Jesus?

In short explain the necessity of Mary's sinlessness if at all. What if she was a sinner just like any other human


And exactly what verse(s) make Mary sinless?

ayoku777:


How did you come about the interpretation that Mary is the gate? In the bible, the gates symbolize the twelve tribes, of which Judah, the tribe of the king, would be the Chief gate.

Rev 21v12 -And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

It is the scripture that interpretes scripture. You don't use assumption to interprete scripture. I've given you a scripture that imply gates represent the tribes of Israel of which Judah is the chief.

What scripture did you use to prove that the gate represents Mary.

Please be lucid. I'm tired of assumption upon assumption.

Shalom

Okay shalom too,

yet another theory. Its no longer a physical gate but twelve tribes of Isreal. Continue! And Judah was shut to be shut forever... not reproducing.

vooks:

So why is there a miracle of sinners bringing forth a sinless Mary and not one of a sinning Mary bringing forth a sinless Jesus?


And exactly what verse(s) make Mary sinless?

God himself called her '[b]full [/b]of grace' if you prefer that it is read 'full of sin' That's your business. I am done here.

Bye the vooks.

dmandy:


God himself called her 'full of grace' if you prefer that it is read 'full of sin' That's your business. I am done here.

Bye the vooks.

dmandy quit making strawmen, the opposite of sinlessness is not 'full of sin'
What has 'full of grace' got to do with sinlessness?
Luke 1:28 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women
You do realize the exact phrase is used in Ephesians of ALL believers?
Ephesians 1:6 (KJV)
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


Besides,
The angel told Gideon that the Lord was with him
Judges 6:12 (KJV)
And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him, and said unto him, The Lord is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

And of another woman, Jael that she was blessed among women

Judges 5:24 (KJV)
Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be,

dmandy:


Okay shalom too,

yet another theory. Its no longer a physical gate but twelve tribes of Isreal. Continue! And Judah was shut to be shut forever... not reproducing.

You call it theory, when there is convincing scripture to show that gates represent tribes in scripture.

Hebrews 7v14 -For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Mary does not represent a gate in any scriptural universe, only in the universe of your assumptions.

Apart from Jesus Christ Himself who said He is the gate, the tribes of Israel are the only other things representing gates in scripture.

Shalom

ayoku777:


You call it theory, when there is convincing scripture to show that gates represent tribes in scripture.

Hebrews 7v14 -For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Mary does not represent a gate in any scriptural universe, only in the universe of your assumptions.

Apart from Jesus Christ Himself who said He is the gate, the tribes of Israel are the only other things representing gates in scripture.

Shalom

Brother Ayoku777,
Have you noted the circularity or dmandy's reasoning?

In order for Mary to be the East Gate, it must be established as a fact that she never had other children. But the 'evidence' of Mary never having other children is Ezekiel's East gate which was to be shut after the Lord went through it!

dmandy,Syncan et all

I'm no apocalyptic pro but going through these books I learnt something; whenever any symbol appears in multiples, each of them refer to a similar item,subject...

Examples

Here the horns of the beasts represent kingdoms each without exception
Daniel 7:24 (KJV)
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Here the stars represent angels, probably leaders of these churches each of them
Revelation 1:20 (KJV)
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Here,
seven heads=seven mountains= seven kings
Ten horns=ten kings
Revelation 17:9-12 (KJV)
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

So when you get to Ezekiel and claim that one of the three gates is the Mary,you necessarily claim that the other two are also women.
All the gates perform the same function and if one gives birth to our Lord, then the rest MUST also be women giving birth to men

Cc Ayoku777,Syncan,italo,ichiato,ubenedictus

So bowing down to Mary is part of their ways of worship, to prove they are Catholic?

KingEbukaNaija:


'Catholic faith' refers to his beliefs as a member of the Catholic Church . One of his beliefs he has to relinquish is to the perpetual virginity of Mary.

vooks:


Brother Ayoku777,
Have you noted the circularity or dmand's reasoning?

In order for Mary to be the East Gate, it must be established as a fact that she never had other children. But the 'evidence' of Mary never having other children is Ezekiel's East gate which was to be shut after the Lord went through it!

I've read that vision of Ezekiel, and you're right, it is a literal temple. The gates don't symbolize Mary or Judah or any tribe. It is a vision of an intended literal and physical temple.

Shalom

ayoku777:


I've read that vision of Ezekiel, and you're right, it is a literal temple. The gates don't symbolize Mary or Judah or any tribe. It is a vision of an intended literal and physical temple.

Shalom

The details are way too much for any symbol.

There are alternating views on to its meaning.

Some contend that the vision was fulfilled in Herod's temple. But this was so tiny and it lacked several details given to Ezekiel(check the image)

Others reckon the temple is yet future. These are the so called Dispensationalists. But I can't find any purpose in bloody animal sacrifices post-Calvary, especially after reading Hebrews whose main argument is the superiority of NT over OT.

My take is that the temple was a conditional promise which which Israel never earned out of sin and which stands overtaken by the Cross. As such, the temple will never be built

When you cherry pick some aspects of the temple like Catholics are doing simply to prop your extrabiblical heresies, you end up in confusion

Hail mary,thou art highly favored and a sword shall pierce through thine own soul for this child is for the rise and fall of many,and her soul do magnifies the lord and her spirit rejoices in God her saviour for the almighty has done great things and holy is his name

jaegermesiter:
Hail mary,thou art highly favored and a sword shall pierce through thine own soul for this child is for the rise and fall of many,and her soul do magnifies the lord and her spirit rejoices in God her saviour for the almighty has done great things and holy is his name

I've been reliably told that Mary possesses her worshippers. Is this you or Mary?

vooks:


The details are way too much for any symbol.

There are alternating views on to its meaning.

Some contend that the vision was fulfilled in Herod's temple. But this was so tiny and it lacked several details given to Ezekiel(check the image)

Others reckon the temple is yet future. These are the so called Dispensationalists. But I can't find any purpose in bloody animal sacrifices post-Calvary, especially after reading Hebrews whose main argument is the superiority of NT over OT.

My take is that the temple was a conditional promise which which Israel never earned out of sin and which stands overtaken by the Cross. As such, the temple will never be built

When you cherry pick some aspects of the temple like Catholics are doing simply to prop your extrabiblical heresies, you end up in confusion

You're absolutely correct.

I believe the temple and the ordinances shown Ezekiel in those chapters were a conditional prophecy/proposal from God to the jews, for a post-exile and pre-new covenant sub-dispensation under the law.

Which was to span the about 490 years from the return from exile to the coming of Christ.

And the fulfilment of that prophecy was conditioned on if they repented, put away all their idols and return to God with all their heart and soul. Something they didn't do.

Ezekiel 43v9  -Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.

10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.

11  And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

But they didn't turn to God with all their heart and didn't even build the second temple according to the measurement and ordinances given. And many other factors.

So the prophecy/proposal didn't come to pass and it will not come to pass again, since we are already under the new covenant now. And all the ordinances of worship that would have existed in that sub-dispensation has now been abolished by Christ's death and resurrection.

But indeed, nothing was symbolic in that vision. They were all prophecies of an intended but conditional literal temple and ordinances of worship for a post-exile and pre-new covenant era. Which didn't come to pass because of sin.

Shalom

vooks:

I've been reliably told that Mary possesses her worshippers. Is this you or Mary?

You have reliably told wrong

vooks:

I've been reliably told that Mary possesses her worshippers. Is this you or Mary?

You have reliably been told wrong