hisblud: ijawkid maybe i will throw in the towel here and now, i cant add anything to john 1.18 Niv by topgun am ok wit it.

And what's it about john 1:18......??...

That Jesus is reffered to as the only begotten god??...oh issues small letter" g" because Jesus isn't the on true God or part of a trinity.........

John 1:18 mentions an un-begotten GOD who no body has seen,and went further to say another god who was "begotten" is the one who has explained the un-begotten God...this verse even as it is does not in any way prove Jesus is Yahweh...why??...because Yahweh was never begotton,but Jesus was....the begetter and the begotten are never the same or of the same rank......the kjv rendering of john 1:18 says "only begotten son"".........this verse from all translations is still under serious debate ......but therein we find a profound truth that one person never had a beginning but the other had a beginning(was begotten)....so how does this take away the fact that the one God we have is the Father as 1 corinthians 8:6 tells us......nothing....

Let me get some more high on the begotten God who was speaking to philip

John 14:9-10
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
NIV

hisblud: just an expression of gratitude. Maybe sometime but now am basking in on the high of that verse john 1.18. I have never taken cocaine before but i think i this verse in NIV AND AMPLIFIED rendering has provided me that euphoria. Oh oh oh great john 1.18 thanks ijawkid

Lol..just an expression of gratitutude??
You call these words expression of gratitude??...

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over
the kingdom to God the Father after he has
destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his
enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to
be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put
everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it
says that “everything” has been put under him,
it is clear that this does not include God
himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son
himself will be made subject to him who put
everything under him, so that God may be all in
all.
___________________________

What is a purpoted person of a triune Godhead who is co equal to the Father subjecting himself for??.....first of all this purpoted GOD is given kingdoms and power by someone greater,and then after everything this purpoted GOD hands over the same kingdom he was given to the one who gave him in the first place and then subjected himself to that ONE......

is GOD subjected to anyone??...this is another attribute I was pointing out to anony that he trivialized.....I told him GOD worships no one and that God is subject to no one.....

1 corinthians 15:24-28 destroys both the trinity and what have you.........Jesus has a superior that is a stron fact that negates him been GOD almighty or equal to GOD almighty...

ijawkid:

Those verses all apply to Yahweh who will bring jugdement and rule through his son Jesus Christ......isaiah 53:1 tells us who represents the arm of the almighty LORD...and that is Jesus.......

Jesus would come to execute judgement at the command of his God and Father.......

I want you to go through malachi 3:1-6 to see how malachi expressed a joint coming of Yahweh,the angel/messenger of the covenant (Jesus)......

_____________________________

It still stands that ALPHA and OMEGA in revelation strictly aPplies to Yahweh and not to Jesus.......

Ijawkid, why are you doing this?

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Rev 22:12-16

Why would God the Father start by calling Himself Alpha and Omega then end by calling Himself Jesus?

I have seen how you tried to draw a distinction between God and His arm and how you tried to make Jesus into an angel/messenger but then the question that lies before you is Why would a messenger dare to claim a title that only belongs to God?

I think at this point it is the nature of God has been made clear to you. The only thing I see stopping you from accepting it is because you maintain that "God cannot take the form of a man". Please ask yourself and answer honestly: Did you really get that notion from the bible or did someone else teach it to you? Think of all the bible verses that have to be "spurious" for that claim to be true.

You see, unlike most people I didn't learn about God by indoctrination under some pastor somewhere. I opened the bible and read it and accepted it's message. I saw three persons that all had the same attributes of God and I simply accepted it that way. I didn't try to start trying to cancel one scripture with another so that they don't "contradict". I just accepted it as the nature of God.

I will not drag this on anymore. The message has been laid out you can either choose to accept it or you can reject it. The choice is yours. I have nothing more to give. Trust me, this thread has taught me more about God than I knew yesterday.

I'll say thank you Boomark for linking me here. God has used you indirectly to teach me something. I just pray that you too will not miss out on the same teaching.

Peace.

hisblud: Thanks for the John 1:18 TroGunn. Do you know in the greek the word Son is Theos-God.

Hmm! brethern see the attached, this is really awesome. You know what, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!! Reading this in NIV the unspurious translation, it blew me away
Check it out


NIV

The NIV rendering is awesome more than the "spurious" KJV rendered that verse.AWEEEESOOOOMEEEEEEE!!!!

Most translations use only begotten Son which the other Greek manuscripts show is the accurate and closer to the original rendering. In any case, point was about no man ever seeing God, but Christ being the one that explains him. Here "huios" is used for Son.

Still, "only begotten" ( meaning created or produced) "God" ( though apparently inaccurate rendering) being used for Christ goes to show Christ is different and not equal to the uncreated Almighty God whom no man has ever seen.

ijawkid:

And what's it about john 1:18......??...

That Jesus is reffered to as the only begotten god??...oh issues small letter" g" because Jesus isn't the on true God or part of a trinity.........

John 1:18 mentions an un-begotten GOD who no body has seen,and went further to say another god who was "begotten" is the one who has explained the un-begotten God...this verse even as it is does not in any way prove Jesus is Yahweh...why??...because Yahweh was never begotton,but Jesus was....the begetter and the begotten are never the same or of the same rank......the kjv rendering of john 1:18 says "only begotten son"".........this verse from all translations is still under serious debate ......but therein we find a profound truth that one person never had a beginning but the other had a beginning(was begotten)....so how does this take away the fact that the one God we have is the Father as 1 corinthians 8:6 tells us......nothing....

ha lol. Yes He is begotten but God all the same not wit a small "g" but big 'G' as God! Added taking in more 'cocaine' of the begotten God!

hisblud: Let me get some more high on the begotten God who was speaking to philip

and again no one has ever seen the Father.....meaning Jesus reflected his Fathers qualities and also he exhibited all he had learnt from the Father....you forget that this Jesus never acts of his own originality,except only on what his Father tell him to do....you forget that Jesus can do nothing except what he sees his Father doing........

Have you tried comparing Jesus' words with the words of Jacob who said he had seen GODs face by looking at his brothers face??...

Let's check it out...

Genesis 33:9-11

New International Version (NIV)
9 But Esau said, “I already have plenty, my
brother. Keep what you have for yourself.”
10 “No, please!” said Jacob. “If I have found
favor in your eyes, accept this gift from me.
For to see your face is like seeing the face of
God, now that you have received me favorably.
11 Please accept the present that was brought
to you, for God has been gracious to me and I
have all I need.” And because Jacob insisted,
Esau accepted it.
______________________________

How was looking at esau's face like seeing the face of GOD from Jacobs statement??...

I need your answers.......

hisblud: Let me get some more high on the begotten God who was speaking to philip

and again no one has ever seen the Father.....meaning Jesus reflected his Fathers qualities and also he exhibited all he had learnt from the Father....you forget that this Jesus never acts of his own originality,except only on what his Father tell him to do....you forget that Jesus can do nothing except what he sees his Father doing........

Have you tried comparing Jesus' words with the words of Jacob who said he had seen GODs face by looking at his brothers face??...

Let's check it out...

Genesis 33:9-11

New International Version (NIV)
9 But Esau said, “I already have plenty, my
brother. Keep what you have for yourself.”
10 “No, please!” said Jacob. “If I have found
favor in your eyes, accept this gift from me.
For to see your face is like seeing the face of
God, now that you have received me favorably.
11 Please accept the present that was brought
to you, for God has been gracious to me and I
have all I need.” And because Jacob insisted,
Esau accepted it.
______________________________

How was looking at esau's face like seeing the face of GOD from Jacobs statement??...

I need your answers.......

Mr_Anony:
I think you missed the point of what I was really showing you there compare again Isaiah 40:10 and Revelations 22:12-13. Who is the one coming to bring judgement on the last day?

Don't you know why? Let me show you.

Jn 5:22
For the Father judges no one at all, but has committed all the judging to the Son.

When you look at 1Cor 15:27-28, you will see that when all these things has been committed to him, then the Son shall be SUBJECT to God who put all thing under him, that God may be all in all.

The Son is still a servant of the Almighty God(the Father). DO YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO THE ABOVE?

I was having difficulty with my browser but am fully back.

Mr_Anony:
Ijawkid, why are you doing this?

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Rev 22:12-16

Why would God the Father start by calling Himself Alpha and Omega then end by calling Himself Jesus?

I have seen how you tried to draw a distinction between God and His arm and how you tried to make Jesus into an angel/messenger but then the question that lies before you is Why would a messenger dare to claim a title that only belongs to God?

I think at this point it is the nature of God has been made clear to you. The only thing I see stopping you from accepting it is because you maintain that "God cannot take the form of a man". Please ask yourself and answer honestly: Did you really get that notion from the bible or did someone else teach it to you? Think of all the bible verses that have to be "spurious" for that claim to be true.

You see, unlike most people I didn't learn about God by indoctrination under some pastor somewhere. I opened the bible and read it and accepted it's message. I saw three persons that all had the same attributes of God and I simply accepted it that way. I didn't try to start trying to cancel one scripture with another so that they don't "contradict". I just accepted it as the nature of God.

I will not drag this on anymore. The message has been laid out you can either choose to accept it or you can reject it. The choice is yours. I have nothing more to give. Trust me, this thread has taught me more about God than I knew yesterday.

I'll say thank you Boomark for linking me here. God has used you indirectly to teach me something. I just pray that you too will not miss out on the same teaching.

Peace.

You have already dragged the discussion to the mud by insulting Yahweh.....that he died and was seen.......

Let me reiterate on revelation 22 you've been jumping about with...

It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation 22; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself. “The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences in the book of revelations..(E.g reveltion 1:: . The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God(Yahweh) also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment like I had earlier mentioned. (Compare Isa 26:21.) I'll repeat this again that Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Yahweh and his “messenger / angel of the covenant.”
The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Yahweh. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God......



Nothing about revelation says Jesus is the almighty......that has been proved...

Please read revelations 1:1,5 $ 6.....
New International Version (©1984)
1..The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave
him to show his servants what must soon take
place. He made it known by sending his angel to
his servant John,

5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful
witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the
ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our
sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a
kingdom and priests to serve his God and
Father—to him be glory and power for ever
and ever! Amen.
____________________________

If you had critically read the beginning of revelation you would have noticed that the. Almighty GOD has no GOd and Father and that the almighty is all knowing and so doesn't need any information or revelation from no one...........

these basic truths are what you lack,that is why you keep insisting that Jesus is equal to his GOD and Father.....smh!!!!

And I forgot to add:: the almighty GOD is not a morning star and also a son of DAvid.....thank You...

hisblud: ha lol. Yes He is begotten but God all the same not wit a small "g" but big 'G' as God! Added taking in more 'cocaine' of the begotten God!

Christ is called Mighty God ( the bible term translated God means powerful one). It's why same word is used for some men, angels, satan, etc.

Technically, nothing wrong in calling Christ God(a god) as long as you know that the head of the Christ is the Almighty God Yahweh and Christ gets his power and authority from the Almighty and remains subordinate to the Almighty ( who is not begotten).

1Cor 15: 27-28 - "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all".

Boomark:

Don't you know why? Let me show you.

Jn 5:22
For the Father judges no one at all, but has committed all the judging to the Son.

When you look at 1Cor 15:27-28, you will see that when all these things has been committed to him, then the Son shall be SUBJECT to God who put all thing under him, that God may be all in all.

The Son is still a servant of the Almighty God(the Father). DO YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO THE ABOVE?

I was having difficulty with my browser but am fully back.

Anony never pays attention......I have told him so many times that the power and actions Jesus carries out were given to him......Jesus remains a servant because he works for HIs GOD and Father........

Mr_Anony:
Anyway sha just read my response to honeychild first. It deals with most of the issues you have raised. I will still provide more from the bible's teaching.

what kind of a respond was that?

Is that how to reason?

If you want to help someone to know what the bible teach was that the right approach?

By the way, are you a muslim? It is muslim that copy extra long pages and post so as to ware out his opponent.
Its like you have learnt that skill from them(trickery).

Yes, now you will be making a reference to an irrelevant long post that makes no sense.

Why not bring out the sense you made there by bits and see if it can stand on its own.

Why did you need that extra long post at the first place?

Just dont keep making reference to that extra long post cause it is useless to this discussion.
Peace

@topgun Well not much to say, check out this various translation out

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God. But the one and only Son is himself God and is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
New International Version

John 1:18
8 No one has ever actually seen God, but, of course, his only Son has, for he is the companion of the Father and has told us all about him.
The Living Bible


John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
New American Standard Bible


John 1:18
8 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
Today's English Version



John 1:18
8 No one has ever seen God. The only Son is the one who has shown us what God is like. He is himself God and is very close to the Father.
Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version, Revised Edition,

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
English Standard Version

John 1:18

18 No one has ever seen God; but the only and unique Son, who is identical with God and is at the Father’s side — he has made him known.
Complete Jewish Bible

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
(from The New English Translation Bible®)

John 1:18
18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASB

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
Contemporary English Version

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
Good News Translation

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made him known.
NRSV

hisblud: @topgun Well not much to say, check out this various translation out

The translations are quite clear, aren't they? Key points -

1) No man has ever seen God Almighty

2) the only begotten Son (or only begotten God according to some) is at his Father's side or heart and explains God Almighty to us.

Point 1) shows Christ is not God Almighty - since Christ was seen.

Point 2) shows us Christ is begotten (produced or created) and he is loyal and obedient to his Father, being at his side and explains his Father to us.

These points tally completely with the rest of the scriptures - no contradictions or confusion, because God is not one of confusion.

hisblud:
So THEOS now is a title?

the word God is a title.

Even satan also bears it.

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:4).

QED.

The good thing about comparing translations is that it brings out the real meaning - that way we don't become a one verse believer.

Boomark:

Don't you know why? Let me show you.

Jn 5:22
For the Father judges no one at all, but has committed all the judging to the Son.

When you look at 1Cor 15:27-28, you will see that when all these things has been committed to him, then the Son shall be SUBJECT to God who put all thing under him, that God may be all in all.

The Son is still a servant of the Almighty God(the Father). DO YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO THE ABOVE?

I was having difficulty with my browser but am fully back.

You know what I actually agree with you when we read that Christ is subject to the Father but what I maintain is that it is a role He plays in the same way the Holy Spirit is currently playing a role of being subject to Christ. "Seniority" in the Godhead is not by who is sending who. Remember that God is one being from everlasting to everlasting.

I don't want to repeat myself over and over again. In my response to honeychild, I began by showing who the Son is before creation to the old testament to the new testament where He humbled Himself and stripped himself of His God privileges. I was going to continue by showing how He was exalted and how He now sits in a position of absolute power as God but I found out that honeychild was ignoring the post so I discontinued it.

In further discussions, we found ourselves face to face with Christ explicitly declaring His supremacy in the book of Revelations. I suggest you read my response to honeychild and what we have said so far on this thread. It doesn't bother me one bit when i see one Person of the Godhead subjecting Himself to another. God is one multi-personal being.

Boomark:

I showed you these things, you dodged it and went ahead treating what someone like God can do. I asked you if each of the multipersonal being is God, you can't answer.

You are dancing azonto because you saw that Christ is God as if you don't know before. Just because you don't know the difference between him and the Father.

Let me ask you this simple questions:

1 who did Christ say is a spirit, that those that must worship Him must do that in spirit?

2 who is the invincible God?

1. Jesus said God is Spirit and we must worship Him in truth and in Spirit. (Mind you Jesus received worship)

2. God (The Father, The Son, The Holy Ghost)

I have given you straight answers because most of what you are asking has already been tackled on this thread.

I know you believe that Michael is Jesus Christ. Well all you have to do now is:

tell us why an angel will receive worship (something Lucifer tried to do and was punished severely for it)

tell us why an angel will refer to himself as the alpha and omega.

I will take a break from this thread now. I just wanted to quickly answer you because I got carried away with my discussion with Ijawkid and I don't want you to think I am ignoring you or anything like that.

Mr_Anony:
If Christ as you claim has a beginning, then how come He refers to Himself in Revelations as the First and the Last.

this ^^^ limitation is yours and not mine.

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." (Colossians 1:18).
....................

Mr_Anony:
Are there now two different Alpha and Omega in heaven? or is it one God having multiple personhood?

Jesus is not the alpha and Omega, but the father is.

Mr_Anony:
Sometimes I wonder how folks like you, Ijawkid, Barrister et al can read verses like these and still claim that Jesus is not God. It makes me wonder if it is not the same bible we are all reading.

that is because you make too many mistake by calling Jesus the alpha and Omega.

Mr_Anony:
[size=8pt]Mind you, the Son is not the same person as God the Father They are two different persons but both of them together with the Holy Spirit are one being.

this ^^^ one is tutulogy.

Mr_Anony:
I wish you had seen the video I posted.
It tries to explain what it means to be multi-personal and it uses a very interesting analogy.

the video are human imaginations and not God's word.

Mr_Anony:
Ihedinobi also has given a good illustration of God's nature on this forum

i can see who is your authority.
But he is not an authority to us.

Mr_Anony:
by comparing Him to man's trinity of body, soul and spirit. All are the same man but yet the spirit is distinct from the soul and the soul is distinct from the body.

that ^^^ is also based on a false notion and not also based on the bible.

Right now you are grasping at straw.

Leave trinity alone.

[/quote]

truthislight:


what kind of a respond was that?

Is that how to reason?

If you want to help someone to know what the bible teach was that the right approach?

By the way, are you a muslim? It is muslim that copy extra long pages and post so as to ware out his opponent.
Its like you have learnt that skill from them(trickery).

Yes, now you will be making a reference to an irrelevant long post that makes no sense.

Why not bring out the sense you made there by bits and see if it can stand on its on?

Why did you need that extra long post at the first place?

Just dont keep making reference to that extra long post cause it is useless to this discussion.
Peace

My friend all you have been doing on this thread is chip in throw an accusation and leave then come back later to accuse again. You need to make up your mind whether you want to join the discussion or not.

You can start by actually reading what has been typed before and presenting a good critique of it. . . . .or you can keep chipping in accusations. I really can't be bothered

Mr_Anony:
Well said, now all I need you to do is provide for us a translation that to you is "non-contradictory" and we can limit ourselves to it. Over to you.

that is why we throw away ideas that are not found in the oldest available manuscript

truthislight: that is why we throw away ideas that are not found in the oldest available manuscript

Please provide this "oldest manuscript" so that we can examine it together.

truthislight:
Jesus is not the alpha and Omega, but the father is.

If I show you Jesus as Alpha and Omega will you believe?

Mr_Anony:
1. Jesus said God is Spirit and we must worship Him in truth and in Spirit. (Mind you Jesus received worship)

2. God (The Father, The Son, The Holy Ghost)

_____________________________
1........Jesus received worship ??from whom??.... did Jesus himself worship someone??.....

2.....FRAUD!!!!!!!..........read 1 corinthians 8:6 and ephesiand 4:6.....
________________________________
Ephesians 4:6...

New International Version (©1984)
one God and Father of all, who is over all and
through all and in all.
1 corinthians 8:6
New International Version (©1984)
yet for us there is but one God, the Father,
from whom all things came and for whom we
live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ,
through whom all things came and through
whom we live.

______________________________

Once again the scriptures exposes the fraud called the trinity......it is either you worship and have has your GOD the Father alone or you worship the son and the holy spirit joined to the Father.... ........read pauls words and let it digest.

It has been consistent through out the scriptures that there is 1 true GOD and that is the Father alone.......that is why Jesus worshipped him.........it would be foolish and futile for Jesus to worship his equal and cry to his equal when he was hung on the tree.........

hisblud: ha lol. Yes He is begotten but God all the same not wit a small "g" but big 'G' as God! Added taking in more 'cocaine' of the begotten God!

Just as I can use big "G" if I want to when refering to other angels or humans that were reffered to as GODs...right??......

I use small letter "g" for Jesus because he is not the almighty and that Jesus has a God and Father...and that that GOD and Father is our GOD and Father too........

It is high time I say this to you...:: if you insist that Jesus is the almighty or equal to the almighty and that same Jesus says we all(including Jesus) have and share the same Father and GOD then it means we are all part of the trinity or Godhead and also the almighty God too.........


It has been proven times without number that the only 1 true GOD is the Father(only) and not a league of persons.......ok??.....
.......

Mr_Anony:
Nowhere in the bible does it say that God cannot take the form of a man nor is there anything in the bible that tells us that a spirit cannot take the form of a man.

"God is
"not a man",
that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" (Numbers 23:19).
................

God is not a literal man/physical man. QED.

Mr_Anony:
So my friend I wonder how you jumped to the conclusion that God being a Spirit automatically means that He cannot take the form of a man.

It is not Yahweh that came as a man, but his first born son.

Mr_Anony:
You need to provide scripture for this this because the bible shows us numerous times where spirits take on a form of flesh.

Yes, his son and other spirit angel but not Yahweh himself.

Mr_Anony:
Why are you insisting that God is limited in that ability?

Because it was not Yahweh that came as a man.

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18).

Mr_Anony:
“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life" Rev 2:8

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning,

"the firstborn from the dead"

that in all things he might the first in all things ." (Colossians 1:18).
..............

Get the sense in which christ is the first there ^^^

Mr_Anony:
Compare with

"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last." Isaiah 48:12

this was a reference to Yahweh.

By this time the man Jesus has not been manifested on earth and was unknown to the Jews.

Stop missing up scriptures.

Mr_Anony:
You know what I actually agree with you when we read that Christ is subject to the Father but what I maintain is that it is a role He plays in the same way the Holy Spirit is currently playing a role of being subject to Christ. "Seniority" in the Godhead is not by who is sending who. Remember that God is one being from everlasting to everlasting.

I don't want to repeat myself over and over again. In my response to honeychild, I began by showing who the Son is before creation to the old testament to the new testament where He humbled Himself and stripped himself of His God privileges. I was going to continue by showing how He was exalted and how He now sits in a position of absolute power as God but I found out that honeychild was ignoring the post so I discontinued it.

In further discussions, we found ourselves face to face with Christ explicitly declaring His supremacy in the book of Revelations. I suggest you read my response to honeychild and what we have said so far on this thread. It doesn't bother me one bit when i see one Person of the Godhead subjecting Himself to another. God is one multi-personal being.

You are dancing around in circles. 1Cor 15: 27,28 shows God gave all authority to Christ, but that God was excempt from being under Christ. It implies God being always superior to Christ. Christ remains God's foremost servant or messenger. God is no one's servant. Christ superiority is over everyone else, except God and this happens with God's permission or blessing. Trinity doesn't teach that. You can't both be coequal and surbodinate to someone.

ijawkid:

From revelation 2:8 that says Jesus died,can GOD die??......

Taking you serious is a waste of time........

You have neglected all the attributes of GOD just because of the trinity dogma...

You conclude:.
1...God can die and GOD died.
2...God was seen ,when in reality no one has seen GOD.....
______________________________
It was nice discussing with you........I don't worship a God who has died before or that was killed.........

That is not the GOD Jesus himself worshipped.........that is not the GOD the isrealites worship.....

lol.

My bros.

Anony is a philosopher and philosopher use their brain to "decide good and bad" just as satan told Adam to do.

That is why he is using his brain to twist the scriptures to suite his theology.

You on the other hand is allowing the scriptures to stand without twisting it.

"the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" and not "philosophy"

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." (Colossians 2:.

@Anony,

you forgot that Jesus christ did not know the day nor the hour that the world will end.

And even when he went back to heaven hear him speak:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" (Revelation 1:1).
..........
You see your life?

You see your "almighty God"?
Abeg, christ is not almighty Yahweh. QED.

If you like,
Keep deceiving yourself.
Peace

Mr_Anony:
Lol, so Jesus is also the First and Last yet He is not God?

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might be the first in all things." (Colossians 1:18).

Still get the sense of it.

He is the first from the dead that went to heaven of those going to heaven.

He went first and then take others to his father. QED

not that he existed first.

Mr_Anony:
I have watched you even admit to multiple gods and say that even though Christ is named "Mighty God", there is another God called "Almighty God".

in fact it is you that dont respect scriptures.

See below:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,

"The mighty God",

The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6).

And:

"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of

"God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH"

was I not known to them." (Exodus 6:3).

^^^

so, you see?

Stop fighting the bible truth with philosophy of men.

Trinity was adopted in the 3rd ce.

Respect the word of God the bible.

Respect God.

Stop twisting the bible.
Peace.

hisblud:

@Mr anony, broza, reading the first line, i stood up, went and washed my face and brushed came back to continue and when i read down the quoted, i started dancing azonto on my bed choi this is the deal breaker. you have answered ijawkid at the same time, who is requesting to know does God die... there is his answer facing him. think i would be switching from now on to the "unspurious" translation that it speaks to them of the Godhood of Christ.Could this be the mystery(musterion) referred by Paul in 1 tim 3:16? I think so; can they accept it....na, its a sacred secret...

Do you think the word "trinity" is confusing them, first becos its not in the scripture and secondly becos even pagan dieties are refered as "trinity" as well, father, mother and son contrasted with the blessed Father, Son and Holy Spirit?[/b]

[b]I propose that instead of "trinity" lets use the "Godhead", i feel that will be clearer to em peeps. those in support say yea....yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, the yeas have it

i never knew that some people were ignorant of scriptures this much.