@ijawkid
using the scenes,
For e.g
scene 1: James was going to school.
Scene 2: He saw abigail and called out to her.

thus from the above, the "He" in Scene 2 would be refering to James in scene 1.

but if we have it in this way

scene 1: James was going to school.
Scene 2: Paul drove in his car.
scene 3:He saw abigail and called out to her.

contextually, the "He" would not be refering to James but Paul. You get my drift.

Apply to the quoted verses, by the way, why use the "spurious" KJV instead of the "unspurious" NIV lol

scene 1
Acts 4:10-11
10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead,

scene 2
that this man stands before you healed.

scene 3
11 He is "'the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone.'
NIV


It somehow shows a two scene but lets leave it at three. this "unspurious" rendering speaks of Jesus, take scene 2 above, "that" is refering to the distant pronoun "whom" and its Jesus Christ, not the healed man.


You can still add another "unspurious" translation
Scene 1
Acts 4:10-12
10 let me clearly state to you and to all the people of Israel that it was done in the name and power of Jesus from Nazareth, the Messiah, the man you crucified-but God raised back to life again.

Scene 2
It is by his authority that this man stands here healed!

Scene 3
11 [b]For Jesus the Messiah [/b]is (the one referred to in the Scriptures when they speak of ) a 'stone discarded by the builders which became the capstone of the arch.'

TLB

Hmm, using another "unspurious" translation,

2 John 7

scene 1
7 Many deceivers,

scene 2
who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world.

scene 3
Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
NIV

"Who" is the pronoun that scene 3 is refering to, and mind you "Jesus Christ" is a noun not a pronoun. quoted from NIV

If you want to know the relationship between Jesus and the Almighty God learn about the relationship between Abraham and Isaac. The bible always uses a human example as a model to what happens in heaven. Abraham is always used to represent God(Lazarus and the rich man). Isaac is described as the only begotten son of Abraham Heb 11:17 Isaac was not the only son of Abraham but he was the only begotten. This model was also seen when Abraham was asked to sacrifice his only begotten soon something that the almighty God was also willing to do. Like Isaac Jesus was created by God,as Isaac was a son of Abraham Jesus is the son of God whom God elevated to an exalted position among his brethren.

Mr_Anony:
Lol, seriously where did you get that from?

Its there in the scriptures you've been opening...maybe colossians 1 would help you out...

Mr_Anony:
I told Barristers to read my answer to honeychild and I suggest you read it too because once you come to terms with the fact that Christ gave up His God privileges and humbled Himself to become a man, His limitations during His human lifetime immediately cease to be an issue.

That made him say he doesn't know the day and the hour but "only" the Father??.......hmmmm......wayo at its peak..........how can GOD who came to earth not know something he ought to know.....maybe God suffered from amnesia because he took the form of a man....right??.........once again you just contradicted GOD who is all knowing by saying he didn't know an important information at a particular point in time in his existence...keep blaspheming GOD......

Barrister would handle you well on this particular issue...meanwhile you've erred big time............

Mr_Anony:
. , The Almighty Lord of Hosts and God of all creation.
.
.

This statement is a fraud and not found in the scriptures....Jesus isn't the almighty....show me from the scriptures.....

Besides Jesus was created,he had a beginning......you have escaped from that truth like a thief running from the cops.....

You still have blatantly denied Jesus being a servant of GOD as the OP said.....you are a fraud....a big one.........

If Christ as you claim has a beginning, then how come He refers to Himself in Revelations as the First and the Last.
“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life" Rev 2:8
compare to this verse:
"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whomI have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. " Isaiah 48:12
Are there now two different Alpha and Omega in heaven? or is it one God having multiple personhood?

@Mr anony, broza, reading the first line, i stood up, went and washed my face and brushed came back to continue and when i read down the quoted, i started dancing azonto on my bed choi this is the deal breaker. you have answered ijawkid at the same time, who is requesting to know does God die... there is his answer facing him. think i would be switching from now on to the "unspurious" translation that it speaks to them of the Godhood of Christ.Could this be the mystery(musterion) referred by Paul in 1 tim 3:16? I think so; can they accept it....na, its a sacred secret...

Do you think the word "trinity" is confusing them, first becos its not in the scripture and secondly becos even pagan dieties are refered as "trinity" as well, father, mother and son contrasted with the blessed Father, Son and Holy Spirit?[/b]

[b]I propose that instead of "trinity" lets use the "Godhead", i feel that will be clearer to em peeps. those in support say yea....yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, the yeas have it

hisblud: @ijawkid
using the scenes,
For e.g
scene 1: James was going to school.
Scene 2: He saw abigail and called out to her.

thus from the above, the "He" in Scene 2 would be refering to James in scene 1.

but if we have it in this way

scene 1: James was going to school.
Scene 2: Paul drove in his car.
scene 3:He saw abigail and called out to her.

contextually, the "He" would not be refering to James but Paul. You get my drift.

Apply to the quoted verses, by the way, why use the "spurious" KJV instead of the "unspurious" NIV lol

scene 1
Acts 4:10-11
10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead,

scene 2
that this man stands before you healed.

scene 3
11 He is "'the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone.'
NIV


It somehow shows a two scene but lets leave it at three. this "unspurious" rendering speaks of Jesus, take scene 2 above, "that" is refering to the distant pronoun "whom" and its Jesus Christ, not the healed man.


You can still add another "unspurious" translation
Scene 1
Acts 4:10-12
10 let me clearly state to you and to all the people of Israel that it was done in the name and power of Jesus from Nazareth, the Messiah, the man you crucified-but God raised back to life again.

Scene 2
It is by his authority that this man stands here healed!

Scene 3
11 [b]For Jesus the Messiah [/b]is (the one referred to in the Scriptures when they speak of ) a 'stone discarded by the builders which became the capstone of the arch.'

TLB

Hmm, using another "unspurious" translation,

2 John 7

scene 1
7 Many deceivers,

scene 2
who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world.

scene 3
Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
NIV

"Who" is the pronoun that scene 3 is refering to, and mind you "Jesus Christ" is a noun not a pronoun. quoted from NIV

I would have used the NIV or any other translation but I chose to use the same kjv to prove that they made a mistake in adding theos to verse 16 of that chapter.....there is no way I would have better shown how pronouns are used and who they refer to if I used another translation in order to show you why the rendering in verse 16 is a fraud...........the NIV ofcus went straight ahead in the examples I gave to tell us who the decievers are...I used the same kjv to show the truth...........

If you have not been blinded by this cursed dogma you would see the truth......

hisblud:

@Mr anony, broza, reading the first line, i stood up, went and washed my face and brushed came back to continue and when i read down the quoted, i started dancing azonto on my bed choi this is the deal breaker. you have answered ijawkid at the same time, who is requesting to know does God die... there is his answer facing him. think i would be switching from now on to the "unspurious" translation that it speaks to them of the Godhood of Christ.Could this be the mystery(musterion) referred by Paul in 1 tim 3:16? I think so; can they accept it....na, its a sacred secret...

Do you think the word "trinity" is confusing them, first becos its not in the scripture and secondly becos even pagan dieties are refered as "trinity" as well, father, mother and son contrasted with the blessed Father, Son and Holy Spirit?[/b]

[b]I propose that instead of "trinity" lets use the "Godhead", i feel that will be clearer to em peeps. those in support say yea....yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, the yeas have it

How won't you dance azonto to someone who misconstrued bible truths just to support the fact that GOD can die....I believe this is what you teach people...that God of which its an impossibility for him to die,came to the earth and was killed(died)........sorry to say this...Jesus christ worshipped the one and only living GOD.....for Christ sake we and Jesus worship Just one living GOD...............please read john 20:17 if you've forgotten to........

GOD cannot die and has never been seen by any man......

If God manifested in human form and died. Who was ruling the world when he was in hades/grave for three days? Was he ruling the world from the grave or was it satan or the angels in heaven that were in charge when he died? God leaving his throne in heaven to come to earth in human form and die doesnt make any sense!

ijawkid: From ANONY's view of God ,that we can't limit Gods abilities he is indirectly saying that GOD can do anything even if it is not who GOD is or part of Gods attributes...........

Pointing out facts like
1..God cannot die..
2.God can and has never been seen by man...

Anony through his philosophy has said it is possible for GOD to against who he is......
he(anony) forgets that in reality it is impossible for God to do somethings or undergo some things.....

1...It is impossible for GOD to lie..
2...It is impossible for GOD to be wicked..
3...It is impossible for GOD to have a head over him or a superior..
4...It is impossible for GOD to die(never).....
5...It is impossible for GOD to be imperfect...
6..It is impossible for any man to see GOD and live(God has always been a spirit and has never being a man at any point in through out his existence)......
Etc
_____________________________

We can't say that because there's nothing impossible for God to do so it is possible for GOD to do the impossible's mentioned above.......God is who he is...he can't contradict himself,but as we can see anony is doing the opposite....

This is the last time I'm gonna discuss this issue with anony......

Setting up another strawman now are we?

1...It is impossible for GOD to lie..

True. (Numbers 23:19)

2...It is impossible for GOD to be wicked..

True. God is Good (Psalm 100:5)

3...It is impossible for GOD to have a head over him or a superior..

True. God is the greatest (Isaiah 40:25)

4...It is impossible for GOD to die(never).....

True. God can never cease to exist He is everlasting (Psalm 90:2)

5...It is impossible for GOD to be imperfect...

True. God God is perfect (Matthew 5:48)

6..It is impossible for any man to see GOD and live(God has always been a spirit and has never being a man at any point in through out his existence)......

False. Please provide scriptural back up for "God cannot take a human form"



I will add one more for you.

God cannot allow worship of anyone else.

True (Luke 4:8 )

doubleDx: If God manifested in human form and died. Who was ruling the world when he was in hades/grave for three days? Was he ruling the world from the grave or was it satan or the angels in heaven that were in charge when he died? God leaving his throne in heaven to come to earth in human form and die doesnt make any sense!

this is why it is called sacred secret-musterion-trying to use human understand wont help, just rest in the Holy Spirit and He will guide you into ALL -not some-truth.

ijawkid:

How won't you dance azonto to someone who misconstrued bible truths just to support the fact that GOD can die....I believe this is what you teach people...that God of which its an impossibility for him to die,came to the earth and was killed(died)........sorry to say this...Jesus christ worshipped the one and only living GOD.....for Christ sake we and Jesus worship Just one living GOD...............please read john 20:17 if you've forgotten to........

GOD cannot die and has never been seen by any man......

Mr anony showed you the verse rev 2.8 and that in isaiah, yet you still dont want to believe. Oh was it spuriously rendered... Hmm let me see it in NIV, one of the unspurious translation and also the greek picture for you to satisfy your mind. In addition, i copied the meaning of the greek words for you to study.

Rev 2:8

8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.
NIV

FIRST
NT:4413
protos (pro'-tos); contracted superlative of NT:4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance):


KJV - before, beginning, best, chief (-est), first (of all), former.

LAST
NT:2078
eschatos (es'-khat-os); a superlative probably from NT:2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time):


KJV - ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost.


DEAD
NT:3498
nekros (nek-ros'); from an apparently primary nekus (a corpse); dead (literally or figuratively; also as noun):


KJV - dead.


ALIVE
NT:2198
zao (dzah'-o); a primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively):


KJV - life (-time), (a-) live (-ly), quick.

doubleDx: If God manifested in human form and died. Who was ruling the world when he was in hades/grave for three days? Was he ruling the world from the grave or was it satan or the angels in heaven that were in charge when he died? God leaving his throne in heaven to come to earth in human form and die doesnt make any sense!

What part of God is a multi-personal being do you not understand?

Mr_Anony:
Setting up another strawman now are we?



True. (Numbers 23:19)

True. God is Good (Psalm 100:5)

True. God is the greatest (Isaiah 40:25)

True. God can never cease to exist He is everlasting (Psalm 90:2)

True. God God is perfect (Matthew 5:48)

False. Please provide scriptural back up for "God cannot take a human form"



I will add one more for you.

True (Luke 4:8 )

Lol....but I thought God could do everything according to your philosphy of him been able to take up human form and then be killed...I thought with God every thing is impossible even if it goes against his attributes and who he is......

Oh you want me to quote a scripture that God can't take up human form??...it has been quoted a zillion times here.......

God told moses at exodus 33:20 and also corroborating it with john 6:46 and 1 john 4:12
_____________________________
##.New International Version (©1984)
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no
one may see me and live."

_____________________________
##..New Living Translation (©2007)
But you may not look directly at my face, for
no one may see me and live."
_____________________________
##English Standard Version (©2001)
But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man
shall not see me and live.”
««««««««««««««««

GOD has stated that no man shall see him and yet live......its just an impossibility for GOD to come to man face to face except its his delight to see us dead.........that is why God sent his son to come explain the Father to us.....

Mr anony repeat Yahwehs words to moses..::::""FOR NO MAN MAY SEE ME and YET LIVE""......

It is just impossible for God to be seen more or else taken up human form........

once again::::: no man has seen GOD....NO MAN.....

In the picture, you would notice that all the numbers attached to a word, number 9999 meaning "was added, not in the original", was not shown thus this is the correct rendering in NIV in the last book, revelation!

hisblud: Mr anony showed you the verse rev 2.8 and that in isaiah, yet you still dont want to believe. Oh was it spuriously rendered... Hmm let me see it in NIV, one of the unspurious translation and also the greek picture for you to satisfy your mind. In addition, i copied the meaning of the greek words for you to study.

Oh and let me clear you up on rev 2:8 and the book of isaiah....it seems your oga has showed you a scripture you might want to hold on to with all your life..let me just spoil a little show for you both.....

let's look at the isaiah you quoted....if you had read it contextually you would have found out how How being the" first and last" could apply to both the almighty GOD(Yahweh) and also to his son....when ever that expression is used the reasons for it being used is given in the verses....
Isaiah 44:6..

##.World English Bible

This is what Yahweh, the King of Israel, and
his Redeemer, Yahweh of Armies, says: "I am
the first, and I am the last; and besides me
there is no God.
________________________

Up there we see from that verse that Yahweh was reffered to as the first and last as regards who the only true GOD is and who the isrealites should worship only.....before Yahweh and after Yahweh there proved to be no other GOD and rival......that is why he said ""besides me there is no God" ..ofcus that verse gives no space for Jesus to be tagged a co-equal with GOD or to be the almighty as you falsely say..........anytime Yahweh told the isrealites he is ""the first and last" it was to help the isrealites see that there is no other GOD but him...
___________________________
Let's consider the revelation 2:8 you quoted...

New International Version (©1984)
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First
and the Last, who died and came to life again.

......................
The expression used there in that verse was as regards to Jesus' death and ressurection....Jesus was the first born from the dead and there would be none after him......

Again let's confirm this from revelations 1:17-18...

New International Version (NIV)
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though
dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and
said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the
Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and
now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I
hold the keys of death and Hades.
_________________________

Once more Jesus being reffered to as the first and last strictly was akin to his death and ressurection not to any other thing......



You guys have assumed that the title ""first and last"" must be a title of divinity........and so Jesus must be GOD or equal to his GOD.You err big time.....

You have also forgotten that such expressions can be used to describe the actions of humans........


.you guys forget to read the scriptures clearly to see why such expressions are used and what they mean when applied to individuals........ It would be like me saying because the scriptures call reffered to Jesus with the titles that also apply to us such as::::SERVANT,APOSTLE,SON,KING etc means that we are co-equals with Jesus.........

_________________________
Let me outline this basic fact...::: ONLY A CREATED BEING can say he was dead.......once again I put it to you and your cohorts that GOD cannot die....it is impossible for GOD to die and be ressurected........
Its impossile..

Ex 24:9-11

9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
NIV

@ijawkid
kindly reconcile this verse with your ideology of man not seeing God!

ijawkid:

This statement is a fraud and not found in the scriptures....Jesus isn't the almighty....show me from the scriptures.....

Besides Jesus was created,he had a beginning......you have escaped from that truth like a thief running from the cops.....

You still have blatantly denied Jesus being a servant of GOD as the OP said.....you are a fraud....a big one.........

Here you go.


"This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." Isa 44:6

Now compare with:


"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Rev 1:8

Also compare with:

"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Rev 22:12-13

And finally compare with:

See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power, and his arm rules for him. See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him. Isaiah 40:10


Now please tell me if Jesus Christ is not the same Alpha and Omega, Almighty God that will come again and reward both the just and unjust

ijawkid:

Lol....but I thought God could do everything according to your philosphy of him been able to take up human form and then be killed...I thought with God every thing is impossible even if it goes against his attributes and who he is......

Oh you want me to quote a scripture that God can't take up human form??...it has been quoted a zillion times here.......

God told moses at exodus 33:20 and also corroborating it with john 6:46 and 1 john 4:12
_____________________________
##.New International Version (©1984)
But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no
one may see me and live."

_____________________________
##..New Living Translation (©2007)
But you may not look directly at my face, for
no one may see me and live."
_____________________________
##English Standard Version (©2001)
But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man
shall not see me and live.”
««««««««««««««««

GOD has stated that no man shall see him and yet live......its just an impossibility for GOD to come to man face to face except its his delight to see us dead.........that is why God sent his son to come explain the Father to us.....

Mr anony repeat Yahwehs words to moses..::::""FOR NO MAN MAY SEE ME and YET LIVE""......

It is just impossible for God to be seen more or else taken up human form........

once again::::: no man has seen GOD....NO MAN.....

Let me remind you of what i demanded of you because it seems you didn't get it. here it is again:

Please provide scriptural back up for "God cannot take a human form"

Mr_Anony:
Here you go.


"This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." Isa 44:6

Now compare with:


"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Rev 1:8

Also compare with:

"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Rev 22:12-13

And finally compare with:

See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power, and his arm rules for him. See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him. Isaiah 40:10


Now please tell me if Jesus Christ is not the same Alpha and Omega, Almighty God that will come again and reward both the just and unjust

Kindly read my reply to hisbud on this......

Jesus is not the alpha and omega the LORD GOD almighty mentioned in revelation 1:8...rather it was Yahweh who in verse 1 was giving Jesus revelations to give to john....

How you want to squeeze Jesus into revelation 1:8 exposes the wayo you intend to play.......

For clarification let's see this ::..

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD
JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is
coming, The Almighty.
___________________________

That verse is directly related to the scriptures you quoted from isaiah which confirms that Yahweh is the only true GOD and the almighty......he is the alpha and the omega being that there is no other GOD but him.........

Try harder bro.........

Mr_Anony:
Let me remind you of what i demanded of you because it seems you didn't get it. here it is again:

Please provide scriptural back up for "God cannot take a human form"

Did it ever occur to you that God cannot be seen therefore meaning he can't take up human form in order to be seen??.........if you can't grasp this simple truth then i SMH!!!.....

Ok what would be the reason for GOD taking up human form??...is it not so that he can be seen??......abi was Jesus invincible when he came to the earth!??..........sorry to irk you,God cannot be seen and has never been seen.......so taking up human form can never be part of Gods agenda...

FACT:: there was never a time GOD took up human form.......except you expect him to do that in the future...........

@ijawkid, lol8), yes give honor to whom honor is due, yep, granted, his my oga, just as boomark, frosbel etc are yours too lol, but have you honored them as your oga

Back to the topic,

let's look at the isaiah you quoted....if you had read it contextually you would have found out how How being the" first and last" could apply to both the almighty GOD(Yahweh) and also to his son....when ever that expression is used the reasons for it being used is given in the verses....

do we see a shifting of grounds, accepting that They can both use the First and Last clause?

The expression used there in that verse was as regards to Jesus' death and ressurection....Jesus was the first born from the dead and there would be none after him......

broza, are you reading what you wrote up kuwa? so if i should get you write;
First of all THE word FIRSTBORN (prototokos) was not used in rev 2:8 but FIRST(protos), thus by changing the word, you must change the meaning and
Secondly, if we are to accept it was refering to Firstborn from the dead, then it means that He is also LASTBORN from the dead which we know the scripture has never said such except you will kindly show us.

hisblud:
@ijawkid
kindly reconcile this verse with your ideology of man not seeing God!

Exodus 24:16-18
New International Version (NIV)
16 and the glory of the LORD settled on Mount
Sinai. For six days the cloud covered the
mountain, and on the seventh day the LORD
called to Moses from within the cloud. 17 To
the Israelites the glory of the LORD looked
like a consuming fire on top of the mountain.
__________________________

Reading the verses after verse 11 clearly shows those persons were able to behold GODs glory and not literally GOD himself.......all persons in the past who had made statement of seeing God face to face,saw Gods representatives(angels) or got a vision of GOD glory........they were in Gods presence.....

Gods word still remains consistent...that no man can see God and yet live and that no man has seen God at anytime........Jesus reiterated that clear fact but you guys are battling with it just to prove that the same Jesus is GOD who no man has seen....

If you think Yahweh literally sat down with moses and the nobles to eat then you must be joking big time........you err mr hisbud........

ijawkid:

Kindly read my reply to hisbud on this......

Jesus is not the alpha and omega the LORD GOD almighty mentioned in revelation 1:8...rather it was Yahweh who in verse 1 was giving Jesus revelations to give to john....

How you want to squeeze Jesus into revelation 1:8 exposes the wayo you intend to play.......

For clarification let's see this ::..

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD
JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is
coming, The Almighty.
___________________________

That verse is directly related to the scriptures you quoted from isaiah which confirms that Yahweh is the only true GOD and the almighty......he is the alpha and the omega being that there is no other GOD but him.........

Try harder bro.........

hmm, it seems verse 8 meant ONLY God JEHOVAH, read all the chapter in context.

Rev 1:4-18

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

it shows 2 persons Him and Jesus Christ

To him who loves us (God loved us according to Jn 3:16) and has freed us from our sins by his blood,(Jesus Christ) 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father — to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. [quote]

[quote]7 Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.
So shall it be! Amen.

"this is specifically refering to Jesus Christ when He was on earth"

then Lord God speaks

8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

da bombshell..booom booom

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Do not be afraid, specifically this statement, Jesus Christ said it to peter, james and John on the mount of transfiguration. Then Jesus Christ says I AM THE FIRST AND LAST, THE LIVING ONE, I WAS DEAD AND I LIVE.

This is in black and white. How clearer can it be?

NIV

ijawkid:

Oh and let me clear you up on rev 2:8 and the book of isaiah....it seems your oga has showed you a scripture you might want to hold on to with all your life..let me just spoil a little show for you both.....

let's look at the isaiah you quoted....if you had read it contextually you would have found out how How being the" first and last" could apply to both the almighty GOD(Yahweh) and also to his son....when ever that expression is used the reasons for it being used is given in the verses....
Isaiah 44:6..

##.World English Bible

This is what Yahweh, the King of Israel, and
his Redeemer, Yahweh of Armies, says: "I am
the first, and I am the last; and besides me
there is no God.
________________________

Up there we see from that verse that Yahweh was reffered to as the first and last as regards who the only true GOD is and who the isrealites should worship only.....before Yahweh and after Yahweh there proved to be no other GOD and rival......that is why he said ""besides me there is no God" ..ofcus that verse gives no space for Jesus to be tagged a co-equal with GOD or to be the almighty as you falsely say..........anytime Yahweh told the isrealites he is ""the first and last" it was to help the isrealites see that there is no other GOD but him...
___________________________
Let's consider the revelation 2:8 you quoted...

New International Version (©1984)
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First
and the Last, who died and came to life again.

......................
The expression used there in that verse was as regards to Jesus' death and ressurection....Jesus was the first born from the dead and there would be none after him......

Again let's confirm this from revelations 1:17-18...

New International Version (NIV)
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though
dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and
said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the
Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and
now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I
hold the keys of death and Hades.
_________________________

Once more Jesus being reffered to as the first and last strictly was akin to his death and ressurection not to any other thing......



You guys have assumed that the title ""first and last"" must be a title of divinity........and so Jesus must be GOD or equal to his GOD.You err big time.....

You have also forgotten that such expressions can be used to describe the actions of humans........


.you guys forget to read the scriptures clearly to see why such expressions are used and what they mean when applied to individuals........ It would be like me saying because the scriptures call reffered to Jesus with the titles that also apply to us such as::::SERVANT,APOSTLE,SON,KING etc means that we are co-equals with Jesus.........

_________________________
Let me outline this basic fact...::: ONLY A CREATED BEING can say he was dead.......once again I put it to you and your cohorts that GOD cannot die....it is impossible for GOD to die and be ressurected........
Its impossile..

my dear friend, attacking a strawman will not help you.

It is interesting you would bring up the name "Yahweh" because what Yahweh simply means is "I AM". So my dear it doesn't change anything. The Son is Yahweh, The Father is Yahweh and the Holy Spirit is Yahweh. Yahweh is the same one and only being and He exists as multiple persons.

Also, it was very amusing to see you try to cook up an explanation for Jesus Christ calling Himself First and Last in Rev. 2:8,

Could you also apply it to Rev 1:11, Rev 22:12-13,

Another interesting thing that perhaps you didn't notice is that When Christ addresses the Churches, He first starts by addressing Himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the Son of God then He ends by saying "Let He that has ears listen to what the Spirit is saying" (Rev 2:7,11,17,29) Who has talking here? The Son or the Father or the Holy Spirit? Or One Multi-personal God?



I'll throw in something else here that made me jump for joy when I read it. Here it is.


“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” Revelations 22:16


Did you notice anything there? JESUS SENT HIS ANGEL! Now who else sends His angels on errands in the bible? Yes you guessed it: God the Father!

hisblud:



do we see a shifting of grounds, accepting that They can both use the First and Last clause?

Did I argue that??.....I only corrected anony by saying revelation 1:8 was reffereing to no other person than Yahweh who has always been the almighty GOD.......don't u get??...

hisblud:

broza, are you reading what you wrote up kuwa? so if i should get you write;
First of all THE word FIRSTBORN (prototokos) was not used in rev 2:8 but FIRST(protos), thus by changing the word, you must change the meaning and
Secondly, if we are to accept it was refering to Firstborn from the dead, then it means that He is also LASTBORN from the dead which we know the scripture has never said such except you will kindly show us.

Even if I cling the word ""first" alone it still doesn't change the point I'm making does it??......isn't Jesus the first person to be ressurected and granted immortality??......

Or do you want me to start explaining the word first.??..........Jesus is the first of persons who experienced ressurection......

Those verses in revelation gave the reasons why Jesus is the first and last......and the reply is::....he died and was ressurected and would live forever...................

ijawkid:

Did it ever occur to you that God cannot be seen therefore meaning he can't take up human form in order to be seen??.........if you can't grasp this simple truth then i SMH!!!.....

Ok what would be the reason for GOD taking up human form??...is it not so that he can be seen??......abi was Jesus invincible when he came to the earth!??..........sorry to irk you,God cannot be seen and has never been seen.......so taking up human form can never be part of Gods agenda...

FACT:: there was never a time GOD took up human form.......except you expect him to do that in the future...........

Scriptural reference please.

ijawkid:

Did it ever occur to you that God cannot be seen therefore meaning he can't take up human form in order to be seen??.........if you can't grasp this simple truth then i SMH!!!.....
..

fail!

Ok what would be the reason for GOD taking up human form??...is it not so that he can be seen??......abi was Jesus invincible when he came to the earth!??..........sorry to irk you,God cannot be seen and has never been seen.......so taking up human form can never be part of Gods agenda.....

Fail again!

FACT:: there was never a time GOD took up human form.......except you expect him to do that in the future...........

Fail again again!

This is all you were asked

Please provide scriptural back up for "God cannot take a human form

Mr_Anony:
my dear friend, attacking a strawman will not help you.

It is interesting you would bring up the name "Yahweh" because what Yahweh simply means is "I AM". So my dear it doesn't change anything. The Son is Yahweh, The Father is Yahweh and the Holy Spirit is Yahweh. Yahweh is the same one and only being and He exists as multiple persons.

Also, it was very amusing to see you try to cook up an explanation for Jesus Christ calling Himself First and Last in Rev. 2:8,

Could you also apply it to Rev 1:11, Rev 22:12-13,

Another interesting thing that perhaps you didn't notice is that When Christ addresses the Churches, He first starts by addressing Himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the Son of God then He ends by saying "Let He that has ears listen to what the Spirit is saying" (Rev 2:7,11,17,29) Who has talking here? The Son or the Father or the Holy Spirit? Or One Multi-personal God?



I'll throw in something else here that made me jump for joy when I read it. Here it is.


“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” Revelations 22:16


Did you notice anything there? JESUS SENT HIS ANGEL! Now who else sends His angels on errands in the bible? Yes you guessed it: God the Father!

Jesus sent his angels while GOD sent Jesus...so who's greater..??.Jesus gives an angel reveleations to give to John while GOD gave Jesus the revelations...............its surprising for you to think that Jesus being reffered to as the first and last would mean he is the same or equal to GOD whilst you quoted a verse from revelation that called Jesus the son of GOD.....its funny I have to tell you.....



And for you to finally say Jesus is Yahweh and so also the holy spirit I think I have to call it a day with you......this is the silliest thing I've ever heard in my whole life.......show me from the scriptures were the messiahs name is Yahweh...(The tetragrammaton).....
Telling us Jesus is Yahweh would mean you re-writing a new bible.........
____________________________
Oh I forgot....Jesus was also called a morning star...right??.....I guess he should be satan(lucifer) if I'm not mistaken,since you can't get the sense of the truth when Jesus is said to be the first and the last.....

hisblud:
fail!

Fail again!


Fail again again!

This is all you were asked

Hmmm...smh...and all I did was show you why it is useless to even ask that question..........

God can't
1....He is a spirit....never was he a man......all other spirit creatures could materialize and be seen(including Jesus) except Yahweh who ofcus by nature can't be seen......

His attribute makes it impossible for God to take up human form....if you and anony can't see this then na ona sabi....

ijawkid:

Exodus 24:16-18
New International Version (NIV)
16 and the glory of the LORD settled on Mount
Sinai. For six days the cloud covered the
mountain, and on the seventh day the LORD
called to Moses from within the cloud. 17 To
the Israelites the glory of the LORD looked
like a consuming fire on top of the mountain.
__________________________

Reading the verses after verse 11 clearly shows those persons were able to behold GODs glory and not literally GOD himself.......all persons in the past who had made statement of seeing God face to face,saw Gods representatives(angels) or got a vision of GOD glory........they were in Gods presence.....

Gods word still remains consistent...that no man can see God and yet live and that no man has seen God at anytime........Jesus reiterated that clear fact but you guys are battling with it just to prove that the same Jesus is GOD who no man has seen....

If you think Yahweh literally sat down with moses and the nobles to eat then you must be joking big time........you err mr hisbud........

So God can take the form of a cloud or a fire but He cannot take the form of a man. Why? Back up with scripture please.

Mr_Anony:
Scriptural reference please.

The proof is every where..God has never been a man through out his existence......no one has seen God............God cannot be seen so he wouldn't materialize for any of us to see....its against who he is,just as I told you that God cannot lie even when we know he can choose to lie and get away with it........

Mr_Anony:
So God can take the form of a cloud or a fire but He cannot take the form of a man. Why? Back up with scripture please.

And I guess fire is an animate person ??...so your telling me that the nobles and others seeing Gods glory in form of fire means God was the fire??......

All they saw was fire(God glory) and not GOD himself..........

People saw Jesus and killed him....That can't happen with GOD.....impossible.....

It would be like saying saul who later became paul saw Jesus literally when on his way to damascus because he saw a ""bright light flash around him"".....