As I have previously said in this thread, matter lacks morality. The probleM with the materialisM of
atheists is that there is currently ŊO̶̷̩̥̊͡ satisfiable explanation as τ̅☺ how the huMan brain evolved the ability τ̅☺ make moral values. The thing is even the current explanations given fail   two accounts: D̶̲̥̅̊ε̲̣̣̣̥γ̲̣̣̥ presume the existence of morality given the constititution of D̶̲̥̅̊ε̲̣̣̣̥γ̲̣̣̥ brain and D̶̲̥̅̊ε̲̣̣̣̥γ̲̣̣̥ try τ̅☺ tie what is actually abstract (ie morality) τ̅☺ specific events. I think ‎​Ȋ̝̊̅† should be clear τ̅☺ the enquiring mind that morality is a product of the human mind and if we are τ̅☺ ask ourselves where the human mind coMes from we can reasonably conclude that ‎​Ȋ̝̊̅† is the product of an non-contingent intelligent being (ie God). The reason for inferring this is because we know that the huMan mmind is iyself contingent eg ‎​Ȋ̝̊̅† needs a brain, needs τ̅☺ mature etc. What's most important τ̅☺ note is what I hold τ̅☺ be axioMatic: Matter lacks morality.

Uyi Iredia: As I have previously said in this thread, matter lacks morality. The probleM with the materialisM of
atheists is that there is currently ŊO̶̷̩̥̊͡ satisfiable explanation as τ̅☺ how the huMan brain evolved the ability τ̅☺ make moral values. The thing is even the current explanations given fail   two accounts: D̶̲̥̅̊ε̲̣̣̣̥γ̲̣̣̥ presume the existence of morality given the constititution of D̶̲̥̅̊ε̲̣̣̣̥γ̲̣̣̥ brain and D̶̲̥̅̊ε̲̣̣̣̥γ̲̣̣̥ try τ̅☺ tie what is actually abstract (ie morality) τ̅☺ specific events. I think ‎​Ȋ̝̊̅† should be clear τ̅☺ the enquiring mind that morality is a product of the human mind and if we are τ̅☺ ask ourselves where the human mind coMes from we can reasonably conclude that ‎​Ȋ̝̊̅† is the product of an non-contingent intelligent being (ie God). The reason for inferring this is because we know that the huMan mmind is iyself contingent eg ‎​Ȋ̝̊̅† needs a brain, needs τ̅☺ mature etc. What's most important τ̅☺ note is what I hold τ̅☺ be axioMatic: Matter lacks morality.

We have illustrated how morality developed, and how it has certainly evolved over time. Societies embraces values and ideals that lead to more prosperity, and children are taught to embrace those values when they are young and impressionable. Those who reject the values are punished and those who embrace them are allowed to thrive. That's what morality is all about. We label certain things as immoral because if they are widely practiced, society would be worse off.. Morality is not a rigid standard. It is flexible and most moral values are not universal. Acts like murder and rape are universally considered to be morally wrong while other acts are judged differently by different cultures and religions due to the differences in the challenges that each society had to overcome over time.

For Anony, atheism was virtually all about bashing Christians and asking annoying questions, à la Socrates' method (curious that he paints his "atheism" with a notoriously common stereotype). Dude even went as far as attending Christian fellowships just to bash people. Amazing!

For Anony, choosing to respect an individual's religious belief somehow translated to indirectly acknowledging the same God he claimed didn't exist. Wonderful logic. It is no wonder then that, as a supposed atheist who supposedly was fond of asking questions, he found LaVeyan Satanism appealing.

I also wonder why after reading 'Ivan The Fool', all he 'saw' thereafter was Christ. Why does something tell me that a former Zoroastrian would equally have 'seen' Zoroaster, and a former Islamist would very well have 'seen' Mohammed?

For me, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Anony was never a true atheist, as I'd be quite guilty of committing the No True Scotsman fallacy. My opinion, however, is that Anony was just a young (possibly aggressive) dickhead and an absolute douchebag who was battling within himself with the exuberance of youth, as evidenced by:

(a) his constant eagerness to go all the way to people's worship center to bash them such that he had turned them into his 'victims', and
(b) his eventual adherence to something as ridiculously sick as LaVeyan Satanism

The young Anony eventually found more solace in his abandoned religion, as it was the only thing that could reasonably afford him the luxury of forgiveness and by extension, riddance of guilt whenever he acted out the sick thoughts that dominated his mind. It is therefore not much surprise that he firmly associates atheism (which happened to coincide with this wanton period of his life) with all manner of ills (murder, rape, stealing, etc). Gentlemen, all Anony sought while supposedly being an atheist was simply something to rationalize his deeds, to make him feel good, no matter what he did, no matter how twisted. All of these, he now finds in Christianity.

Praise the Lord!

Purist: For Anony, atheism was virtually all about bashing Christians and asking annoying questions, à la Socrates' method (curious that he paints his "atheism" with a notoriously common stereotype). Dude even went as far as attending Christian fellowships just to bash people. Amazing!

For Anony, choosing to respect an individual's religious belief somehow translated to indirectly acknowledging the same God he claimed didn't exist. Wonderful logic. It is no wonder then that, as a supposed atheist who supposedly was fond of asking questions, he found LaVeyan Satanism appealing.

I also wonder why after reading 'Ivan The Fool', all he 'saw' thereafter was Christ. Why does something tell me that a former Zoroastrian would equally have 'seen' Zoroaster, and a former 'Islamist' would very well have seen Mohammed?

For me, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Anony was never a true atheist, as I'd be quite guilty of committing the No True Scotsman fallacy. My opinion, however, is that Anony was just a young (possibly aggressive) dickhead and an absolute douchebag who was battling within himself with the exuberance of youth, as evidenced by:

(a) his constant eagerness to go all the way to people's worship center to bash them such that he had turned them into his 'victims', and
(b) his eventual adherence to something as ridiculously sick as LaVeyan Satanism

The young Anony eventually found more solace in his abandoned religion, as it was the only thing that could reasonably afford him the luxury of forgiveness and by extension, riddance of guilt whenever he acted out the sick thoughts that dominated his mind. It is therefore not much surprise that he firmly associates atheism (which happened to coincide with this wanton period of his life) with all manner of ills (murder, rape, stealing, etc). Gentlemen, all Anony sought while supposedly being an atheist was simply something to rationalize his deeds, to make him feel good, no matter what he did, no matter how twisted. All of these, he now finds in Christianity.

Praise the Lord!

Anony is just lying when he says he was an atheist and I am VERY serious about that. . .His atheism was all about having ideas like rapingg women and feeling no guilt, not been responsible and not accountable for anything because only him mattered to him self etc. . .I was reading a post on psychology today. . . a study was conducted and it showed that in the broad strokes, ideology makes very little difference in the moral decisions most people make. . .People mostly go with their instincts in most cases. . .If his story is true which it is not, then he is just a depraved individual. . .

Seun: @truthislight:
You have claimed that a "slave" in the new testament is more-or-less a hired labourer or employee rather than a piece of property to be bought and sold and forced to do whatever his/her owner wants him to do. Can you explain the following bible verses, then?

i had said that what is written in the NT and the use of the word "slave" should not be taken out of context because of the secular understanding of the use of the word slavery since the sense in which the word slave is use in the NT is different from the secular context.

Seun:
"Because the patriarchs were jealous of Joseph, they sold him as a slave into Egypt. But God was with him" - Acts 7:9

that statement in the NT is relating a fact of history that happened in the OT.

Dont say you are not familiar with that story of how Joseph was sold.

Am afraid, that cannot be said to be a teaching in the NT sanctioning force labour for the 1st century christians.

Seun:
auctioning slavery.
They sold him into ... Hired labor? Employment? How does a person get sold into a voluntary job?

how does this in any way support slavery in the NT?

If you are saying that the Jews in the OT fought wars and took slaves as it were i will not really have contested it.

Seun:
"You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings." - 1 Corinthians 7:23

this is actually talking about the price that christ paid to buy back mankind from the sin of Adam and not slavery. No?

Besides, lets see the whole line of argument that was made to serve the purpose of christianity:

"For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ’s servant.

"Ye are bought with a price";

be not ye the servants of men. Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God." (1 Corinthians 7:22-24).
.................

That ^^^ serves the purpose of christianity, to ensure that all kinds of people can freely cone to christ.

The ills of this system should not be used as a hindrance to prevent people from benefiting from the greater picture.

Seun:
If a slave is simply a hired labourer or servant, why is it bad to become a slave?

the use of the word "slave" in the NT is not use in the sense that it is used in the secular society today.

I have already explained this in my previous post.

Seun:
Is it wrong for a Christian to be employed?

who said it is? Definitely not me.
I said if we conclude that the word "slave" as used in the NT refers to force labour it then means that secular employment today as estate managers are also slaves.

I did not say that employment is wrong.

I also said that the instruction was directed at christians and should not be misconstrued since we know the laws to christians.

Seun:
"We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you
say that we shall be set free?” - John 8:33

again, this is not endosing slavery of force labour but slavery to sin that christ was talking about.

see the full text in context:

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. " (John 8:32-34).
..............:...............

Compare it to this:
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:16).

Definitly not "slavery" in a secular sense as use today.

Seun:
What does "we have never been slaves" mean. Does it mean they had never been employed? And why are they implying that a person who needs to be freed must be a slave?

slave of christ.

i believe by now as stated above you will have gotten the sense of what was being said by Jesus.

Seun:
If slaves in the new testament are voluntary labourers, why do they need to be "set free"?

being a slave of christ is voluntary.

1. set free from sin.

2. Or, were the apostle were canvassing as not to create disharmony as not to becloud the essence of christianity that will lead all sort of people to christ.

3. All sort of men were welcome into christianity.

Context is very important.
Also note the priority of the apostles.

To create an enabling environment as to serve the purpose of converting all sort of men, the christian quality was preach, this as to attract more convert.
^^^
this ^^ neither justified slavery or but an approach to achieving the aim of converting all sort of men to God.
Peace

Anony is a liar.


He was never an atheist. Atheism is the disbelief in God- any other thing is a personal philosophy.


It was clear to me the moment he claimed that atheism automatically or logically leads to Satanism.

The ra.pe comment was just icing on the cake. He exposed his ignorance on atheism, he believes atheism is a religion and so he could tie atheism to a belief of moral nihilism where there is nothing wrong with ra.pe

mazaje:

Anony is just lying when he says he was an atheist and I am VERY serious about that. . .His atheism was all about having ideas like rapingg women and feeling no guilt, not been responsible and not accountable for anything because only him mattered to him self etc. . .I was reading a post on psychology today. . . a study was conducted and it showed that in the broad strokes, ideology makes very little difference in the moral decisions most people make. . .People mostly go with their instincts in most cases. . .If his story is true which it is not, then he is just a depraved individual. . .

lol. . . you just summarized my whole post in a very blunt way.

One more thing Anony: this is not your Sunday school or cell meeting or whatever you people call it nowadays, where you share cöck and bull stories to win converts and solidify faiths, okay!!?

Purist: For Anony, atheism was virtually all about bashing Christians and asking annoying questions, à la Socrates' method (curious that he paints his "atheism" with a notoriously common stereotype). Dude even went as far as attending Christian fellowships just to bash people. Amazing!

For Anony, choosing to respect an individual's religious belief somehow translated to indirectly acknowledging the same God he claimed didn't exist. Wonderful logic. It is no wonder then that, as a supposed atheist who supposedly was fond of asking questions, he found LaVeyan Satanism appealing.

I also wonder why after reading 'Ivan The Fool', all he 'saw' thereafter was Christ. Why does something tell me that a former Zoroastrian would equally have 'seen' Zoroaster, and a former 'Islamist' would very well have seen Mohammed?

For me, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Anony was never a true atheist, as I'd be quite guilty of committing the No True Scotsman fallacy. My opinion, however, is that Anony was just a young (possibly aggressive) dickhead and an absolute douchebag who was battling within himself with the exuberance of youth, as evidenced by:

(a) his constant eagerness to go all the way to people's worship center to bash them such that he had turned them into his 'victims', and
(b) his eventual adherence to something as ridiculously sick as LaVeyan Satanism

The young Anony eventually found more solace in his abandoned religion, as it was the only thing that could reasonably afford him the luxury of forgiveness and by extension, riddance of guilt whenever he acted out the sick thoughts that dominated his mind. It is therefore not much surprise that he firmly associates atheism (which happened to coincide with this wanton period of his life) with all manner of ills (murder, rape, stealing, etc). Gentlemen, all Anony sought while supposedly being an atheist was simply something to rationalize his deeds, to make him feel good, no matter what he did, no matter how twisted. All of these, he now finds in Christianity.

Praise the Lord!

This is a rather good reply I must say (at least you took time to actually read the post rather than go for a 'quote & twist attack') but unfortunately you have committed the genetic fallacy. . .

. . . . .I think you should judge Christianity based on it's merits rather than how one came by it. . . . .and that's more or less what I have required of Cyrexx. He is yet to reply.

Logicboy03: Anony is a liar.


He was never an atheist. Atheism is the disbelief in God- any other thing is a personal philosophy.


It was clear to me the moment he claimed that atheism automatically or logically leads to Satanism.

The ra.pe comment was just icing on the cake. He exposed his ignorance on atheism, he believes atheism is a religion and so he could tie atheism to a belief of moral nihilism where there is nothing wrong with ra.pe

mazaje:

Anony is just lying when he says he was an atheist and I am VERY serious about that. . .His atheism was all about having ideas like rapingg women and feeling no guilt, not been responsible and not accountable for anything because only him mattered to him self etc. . .I was reading a post on psychology today. . . a study was conducted and it showed that in the broad strokes, ideology makes very little difference in the moral decisions most people make. . .People mostly go with their instincts in most cases. . .If his story is true which it is not, then he is just a depraved individual. . .

Lol, defenders of the "faith" are now telling us who the "true atheists" are. . . .these atheist apologists sef una no go make person laugh.

@mr anony

I don't think Christianity changes that chaotic and nihilistic/sadist background you give to life. Its like the Christian God and his son are an extension of the nightmare who dish out shell moral values held up by simply pure coercion. Its the same if morality is handed down by gods or kings or village chiefs.

@uyi iredia

Start by defining morality. And explain an "apparent contradiction" in your slogans that matter isn't moral nor intelligent, yet Life experiences morality!

I have forgotten what slavery means.

Mr_Anony:


Lol, defenders of the "faith" are now telling us who the "true atheists" are. . . .these atheist apologists sef una no go make person laugh.

I didnt use the words "true atheists". Lying again, are we?



You were never an atheist. Your lies have exposed you.

Kay 17: @mr anony

I don't think Christianity changes that chaotic and nihilistic/sadist background you give to life. Its like the Christian God and his son are an extension of the nightmare who dish out shell moral values held up by simply pure coercion. Its the same if morality is handed down by gods or kings or village chiefs.

Oh Christianity very much does. One of the best things about knowing Christ is how my thinking and behavior has changed drastically. It amazes me when I think about it.

Mr_Anony:
This is a rather good reply I must say (at least you took time to actually read the post rather than go for a 'quote & twist attack') but unfortunately you have committed the genetic fallacy. . .

. . . . .I think you should judge Christianity based on it's merits rather than how one came by it. . . . .and that's more or less what I have required of Cyrexx. He is yet to reply.

A happy new year to you too, sire!

Logicboy03:


I didnt use the words "true atheists". Lying again, are we?



You were never an atheist. Your lies have exposed you.

Lololololol......of course. Anything to defend your faith.

Purist:

A happy new year to you too, sire!

Same to you

Logicboy03:


Atheism is now based on faith?


Go and sleep, you arent making sense

Ah....yes I forgot. It is a "disbelief in God". How you just happen to know for sure that there was never a time when I didn't believe in God beats me. Don't you just love this non-faith of yours that confirms and denies it's adherrents?

Mr_Anony:
Ah....yes I forgot. It is a "disbelief in God". How you just happen to know for sure that there was never a time when I didn't believe in God beats me. Don't you just love this non-faith of yours that confirms and denies it's adherrents?

If you needed faith not to believe in God, you were never an atheist. Very simple.

Logicboy03:
If you needed faith not to believe in God, you were never an atheist. Very simple.

Ah....but I never said I need faith not to believe in God. That's your invention. It is funny the lengths you'll go to defend your "no-faith". Why do you believe in nothing so much that you not only rise to defend it, you actually preach it?

Why does it matter if Mr_Anony was ever an atheist?

Seun: Why does it matter if Mr_Anony was ever an atheist?

Lolol, because it is bad PR for Logicboy our in-house "Shining Knight of Atheism"

Mr_Anony:
Ah....but I never said I need faith not to believe in God. That's your invention. It is funny the lengths you'll go to defend your "no-faith". Why do you believe in nothing so much that you not only rise to defend it, you actually preach it?

Yawn........Read your statement;

Mr_Anony:


Lol, defenders of the "faith" are now telling us who the "true atheists" are. . . .these atheist apologists sef una no go make person laugh.

Mr_Anony:
Lololololol......of course. Anything to defend your faith.

Seun: Why does it matter if Mr_Anony was ever an atheist?

Who said it matters?


Just adding to the numerous lies of Anony.

Mr_Anony:
Lolol, because it is bad PR for Logicboy our in-house "Shining Knight of Atheism"

You are always good PR for me. You are the best christian apologist here. Everytime I open threads with your name, I get hundreds of views and comments.


When I debunk you and push you into a corner to tell lies about souls, brains and morality, it makes me look even more intelligent (to your christian fans)

Logicboy03:


You are always good PR for me. You are the best christian apologist here. Everytime I open threads with your name, I get hundreds of views and comments.


When I debunk you and push you into a corner to tell lies about souls, brains and morality, it makes me look even more intelligent (to your christian fans)

LOLOLOLOLOL..................You really believe this?? too much chutzpah!
Abeg no use laugh kill me for here......

Mr_Anony:
LOLOLOLOLOL..................You really believe this?? too much chutzpah!
Abeg no use laugh kill me for here......

Denial...one of the best tools of christian apologists. Have your christians not abandoned you on your failed arguments on the soul and brain?

Logicboy03:
Denial...one of the best tools of christian apologists. Have your christians not abandoned you on your failed arguments on the soul and brain?

Yawn....the assumption being that there is such a thing as "anony's christians"...

Dude, I know that internet popularity is important to you but please don't drag me into your behind-the-keyboard fame competition

Mr_Anony:
Yawn....the assumption being that there is such a thing as "anony's christians"...

Dude, I know that internet popularity is important to you but please don't drag me into your behind-the-keyboard fame competition

Wrong.


I dont need popularity. What I do need is a platform for Nigerians to understand the importance of facts and not fairytales

Logicboy03:
Wrong.


I dont need popularity. What I do need is a platform for Nigerians to understand the importance of facts and not fairytales

Lolol....."You don't need popularity but you need a platform" Of course. Why not?

....anyway it appears this thread has devolved into retorting one-liners. I'll leave you to have the last word.

@Cyrexx,

Still waiting for that list of yours.

Mr_Anony:


I have now fully satisfied your requests. Now please tell me exactly why atheism over christianity. I have given you 10 advantages of following Christ over being an atheist. I won't ask that much from you. I will assume that you know what it means to follow Christ in truth but you chose atheism instead.

All you have to do now my dear Cyrexx, is to give me only 5 advantages of being an atheist over following Christ. I await your list.

Hmm, thats quite an impressive story you told.

Before I proceed with mine, I will like to state that the list below are my personal experience and i will NOT expect you to offer rebuttals to them. I may not respond if you do. I have stated earlier that that there is no GENERAL advantage experience that all atheists must have. We all have different experiences with religion, so our advantageous experiences on our recovery from religion will differ.

I will also like to say that I was not a "nominal christian" when I was a christian, I was a born-again fervent christian who fully followed "Christ in spirit and in truth".



Now, here are my own personal experience on advantages of Religious Non-belief (Atheism) over Religious belief (Christianity). You asked for 5, I will give you 16.

1.As an atheist, I enjoy peace of mind now, I never have to worry about whether i please god or not. As a christian, I'm always conscious of not offending the daddy in the sky who had such a weak ego as to get offended every little time a mere mortal disobey his rules. (isnt it funny that the so-called creator of the universe has no serious business to handle than watch out for tiny "ants" and monitor them all around). This does not mean that I live an immoral life, so dont quote-mine

2. As an atheist, I have a broader view of the world and people. As a christian, I see people as either christians or non-christians and thats a narrow view to have.

3. As an atheist, I am @least 10 percent richer. I dont have to give tithes and offering anymore.

4. As an atheist, I am motivated to do all I can in this life, cos thats what we really have for sure. As a christian, I thought I will really live my life when I get to heaven.

5. As an atheist, I never have to try to make sense of biblical contradictions and absurdities. As a christian, I am always trying to defend the biblical contradictions and absurdities.

6. As an atheist, i am curious to learn sciences, including cosmology and evolution without any fear. As a christian, i am always afraid i will lose my faith if delve deeper into some aspects of sciences.

7. As an atheist, I dont have to wait for god to make things happen, I know that my destiny is in my own hands. As a christian, all my life is in god's incompetent hands.

8. As an atheist, religious tricks will never work on me anymore. As a christian, i am susceptible to fall for any good religious tricks.

9. As an atheist, I am curious to learn about other religions, worldviews and mythologies. As a christian, I feel that learning anything that disagrees with my christian faith is dangerous and even demonic.

10. As an atheist, I never have to pretend and apologise for being a human. As a christian, I have to hide my imperfections from people who respect me as a christian.

11. As an atheist, I never have to pretend as if God answers my prayers. As a christian, I always have to make excuses and tell myself god answers when he doesnt.

12. As an atheist, I now have a truly scientific mind that seeks to discover facts about our universe. As a christian, i am content to acknowledge that god-did-it and i dont need to probe his works.

13. As an atheist, i have no fear of satan, witchcraft, curses or demons harming me. As a christian, I am always careful of "not opening doors" for satan, witchcraft, curses and demons through my "unconscious sins".

14. As an atheist, I have a responsibilty to educate mankind and help mankind practically. As a christian, i only think of how i can convert everyone to christianity.

15. As an atheist, I know i am part of a new generation of the future of mankind, a world free of superstition and dogmatic faith. As a christian, I always feel like I am in the end times, that this world will soon be destroyed.

16. As an atheist, i dont have to ask why did god allow such and such to happen to me, now i know that stuff happens and we have to deal with it. As a christian, i never understand why god allows some things to happen to me despite my sincere prayers and faith in his (failed) promises.

Hmmm! Cyrex!