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Stats: 1,809,266 members, 3,556,877 topics. Date: Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 07:18 PM
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 5:44pm On Jan 06, 2013|
[size=18pt]25) The problem with exorcism[/size]
Exorcism is the removal of demons or spiritual entities from possessed humans or places. Exorcism exists in the Abrahamic Faiths (christianity, islam and judaism)
The problem with human exorcism is that the exorcised person or victim is consistently misdiagnosed with demonic or spiritual possession instead of a physical or psychological health problem. A good case was that of Anneliese Michel whose death would have been prevent a week before she died had medical remedies been sought rather than the exorcism. Exorcisms are quite rare in the West nowadays
Several psychological disorders, including Tourette syndrome and schizophrenia, can produce the types of effects seen in "possessed" people. People with epilepsy can suddenly go into convulsions when having a seizure; Tourette syndrome causes involuntary movements and vocal outbursts; schizophrenia involves auditory and visual hallucinations, paranoia, delusions and sometimes violent behavior. Psychological issues like low self-esteem and narcissism can cause a person to act out the role of "possessed person" in order to gain attention. In a case where the subject is in fact suffering from mental illness, the Church is doing harm by labeling the person possessed if this prevents the person from seeking out the medical treatment he or she requireshttp://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/afterlife/exorcism5.htm
By the way, spirits or demons have never been scientifically proven to exist, just like fairies and elves.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 7:50pm On Jan 06, 2013|
[size=18pt]26) A special case of argumentum ad ignorantium; Shifting the burden of proof by the religious[/size]
You cannot claim that "miracles exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."
You cannot claim that "souls exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."
You cannot claim that "angels exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."
You cannot claim that "deities exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."
This is a common argument from some theists. The make the argument that since the atheist can not prove that their supernatural beings can not be disproved, they exist. They are putting the burden on the atheists to prove their claims wrong when they the (theists) havent tabled any evidence for it.However, that is not how logic works. That is an argument from ignorance.
This is how logic works
X exists or is true because there is evidence for X
Tasmanian devils exist because we have scientific documentaries or videos showing them in their habitat
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Sweetnecta: 9:29pm On Jan 06, 2013|
by Sweetnecta: 7:05pm On Jan 05you accused the muslims with the bold. i changed yoou to provide proofs with the segments that sandwiched it. you chickened out with the below bold. how is that sincere effort?
by Logicboy03(m): 9:33pm On Jan 05how is your poor effort in bold on this line a response to me? what makes Jesus a muslim are his believe in One God, not in Trinity. Also he made night salah at the gashemane in addition to many times he made the same prayers during the day at prescribed times. he fasted, gave charity and received gifts, not charity because prophets do not consume charity.
every prophet of God, starting from Adam to Jesus and then to Muhammad [sa] were muslims for their God is One and their religion must be one, the very religion commanded by God. God did not command judaism or christianity as religion. there is no revelation for judaism or christinity. These groups erroneously claimed revelations for themselves.
Now show me a single evidence that Jesus was not a muslim and you can use the evidence of anything that is the core duties of judaism or christianity to shame me and islam here.
did Jesus talked to the wailing wall as the jews do or go to clapping and singing as the christians?
can the religion of Jesus be different from the religion of the father of faith, Abraham who was neither a jew nor christian? Note that these two religions came after Abraham was long gone. However the religion of Islam is the religion of Adam and all believers.
The burden of proof is upon the accuser, you. I am waiting for your evidence and you will not have any because not only that you post is an epic fail. but you are an empty suit. I want you to respond. mehn.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Sweetnecta: 9:29pm On Jan 06, 2013|
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Sweetnecta: 9:30pm On Jan 06, 2013|
i am awaiting your epic fail response. i know it will be empty rhetoric.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by AtheistD(m): 9:43pm On Jan 06, 2013|
I like the thread. I love the pics
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 10:11pm On Jan 06, 2013|
Please help add pics and arguments if you can
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 10:12pm On Jan 06, 2013|
Sweetnecta: ne. However the religion of Islam is the religion of Adam and all believers.
Open a thread and we will discuss
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by 1Godfather(m): 6:04am On Jan 07, 2013|
Don't get your knickers in a twist. Reproducing material that has been formerly written somewhere is not a crime so there is no need to sound somewhat pissy. The fact is that sometimes, what we want to say has been better articulated somewhere, or we just may not have the time to write the sort of robust response we would like. In such cases, pasting a link where the matter under contention was properly addressed is not only necessary but smart. At any rate, since you've now referred me to your law-maker argument, I shall take a look at it and see whether it is a defeater for the God proposition.
First of all, this is not an argument against the existence of God as the title of the thread seems to suggest. Even if we grant, for the purpose of the discussion, that the argument succeeds, the atheist would have only succeeded in showing that some religious texts as we have known them are not inerrant or that they are incomplete. It does not even begin to make a case for the non-existence of God. If anything, the atheist has only succeeded in showing that the God who is commonly said to exist might have been misrepresented by some religious texts or worse that if the religious texts were completely accurate, some or all of its contents transgresses against some understanding of God’s attribute that the atheist might currently harbor.
However, that is not even the main thrust of this atheistic argument. This argument as I understand it is as follows: “human laws are mutable—i.e they are likely to be changed or altered to reflect the realities of the time they are operating in. If that is the case, we should expect that Divine laws are likewise mutable. But since the religious texts suggest that the divine commandments contained therein are to be regarded as immutable, one should disregard such divine commandments when a dynamic human society evolves a contrary position.”
But as anyone can immediately see, one should never hinge morality on the ever-changing zeitgeist of human societies and cultures. I don’t think the atheist has fully thought this point through yet. Does he even realize what he is asking for—for the rightness or wrongness of human actions to be arbitrary?; to be subject to group consent?; to be only as valid as the next revision or amendment? And what if some segment of some hypothetical society decides that another segment of the same society has different values from it and thus should not be bound to the same laws?
Why would the atheist think that we should equate human laws with divine laws? Why make the assumption that a divine law-giver, if such a being exists at all, would be like some human lawyer?
The problem isn’t so much that the divine laws which constitutes the basis of morality (i.e one’s duty and obligation towards the lawgiver himself and to his fellow humans) are faulty and need changing. It is rather the case that people do not want, or rather do not feel like they should be accountable to some divine law-giver in the first place. This is the root source of the willful disobedience and the intransigence that comes to the fore whenever people feel like they can attack the idea of a divinely ordained foundation for human morality.
Another issue is that all too often the atheist cannot tell the difference between some point or issue in some alleged divinely inspired text being simply a recommendation or suggestion or wisdom of the human hand writing divinely-inspired scriptures AND those points or issues which are express declarations of God by revelation. This is a point I simply expect no militant or evangelical atheist to be able to wrap his or her head around. Sadly there isn’t much that can be said really to make the matter much clearer to anyone whose ideological commitment hangs on a misapprehension of the point.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 11:06am On Jan 07, 2013|
Can everyone see the arrogance of a religious blowhard? First he made an assumption that he couldnt back up (that our arguments were copy and paste) and after being proven wrong, he didnt even care to say sorry or anything, he arrogantly went on to make another nonsense claim
1) I am still waiting for apologies for your nonsense claims that we copied and pasted arguments. The law maker argument is entirely mine based on other arguments about changing morality and laws.
2) The title of the thread clearly shows that the arguments are either against god or religion. You chose for some nonsense reason to see only "god" and made a false claim.
3) The law maker argument is against religion not the existence of God
4) There is no divine law. 4,000 years of human existence has shown that- all laws have loopholes. All rules have exceptions. Can you point to a perfect law that you know concerning human behaviour? The evidence favours my claim, not yours.
5) There is already an argument here showing that morality can not come from religion or God. Morality comes from humans (evolution, logic and society). It will do well for you to read more. Something is good because it is inherently good and not because some god says so.
6)Never use the phrases "evangelical atheists" or "militant atheists". It gives away the fact that you are an intolerant and ignorant person. An atheist can not be evangelical and a religious or theistic person has no moral high ground to talk about an atheist being militant
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 10:51pm On Jan 07, 2013|
[size=18pt]27) The inconsistency of a good God and the God of the old testament[/size]
"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."[/size]
God in the old testament sanctioned many crimes against humanity like slavery (Leviticus 25;44) and genocide (1 Samuel 15:3). This is in contrast with what Christians and Jews call a good God that should be worshiped.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by onetrack(m): 11:00pm On Jan 07, 2013|
Logicboy03: [size=18pt]27) The inconsistency of a good God and the God of the old testament[/size]
This is really my main basis for being an atheist. God is evil in any and every sense of the word. Even if he did exist he certainly wouldn't be worthy of genuine worship except by masochists or people with Stockholm Syndrome.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by cyrexx: 11:09pm On Jan 07, 2013|
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 11:21pm On Jan 07, 2013|
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 12:25am On Jan 08, 2013|
[size=18pt]28)Shirk and a problem of intolerance in Islam
Put simply, shirk (polytheism or associating partners with Allah/God) is the worst sin in Islam. There is no forgiveness for shirk in Islam.
However, shirk is actually the religion of millions of people (polytheism, pagan religions). Shirk was the way of all our Nigerian forefathers and ancestors before Arabs and Europeans came with islam and christianity. In my own opinion, the Islamic disgust with shirk highlights an intolerance and a disrespect to religions that preceded itself. How can one tolerate plurality of religions when you have classified polytheists (such as many pagans) as the most heinous sinners known to God?
What complicates this matter and makes it worse is the logic behind this. A thieving muslim can repent and go to heaven. A fornicating muslim can repent and go to heaven. However, a saintly or good polytheist will burn in Jahannam (hell).
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed. -- Sura 4:48
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 1:20am On Jan 08, 2013|
[size=18pt]29) The ridiculous concept of blashpemy laws; reduces freedom of religion[/size]
Blasphemy laws are laws against making insults or acts of irreverence towards a religion or deity. While this sounds good on paper it has negative consequences. The are many arguments on the freedom of speech and blasphemy laws but the most ridiculous problem of blasphemy is religion itself;
Blasphemy kills freedom of religion;
Some religions contradict each other in theology and therefore, supporting an idea from one religion could end up as blasphemy in another religion.
For instance, a Sharia practicing country will naturally ban a signboard claiming that there are many gods because polytheism is strictly forbidden in islam and an insult to Allah. Polytheism is central to many pagan religions.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 2:27am On Jan 08, 2013|
[size=18pt]30) The demise of the good infidel[/size]
According to mainstream Christianity and Islam, rejection of God means hell on judgement day. The problem with this theology is that it places faith over what people do with their life on earth. Religions with such theology can not claim to promote a better life for people on earth because the main focus is on faith and it is irrelevant if a faithless person saves the whole world, he or she is still living a bad life that will be punished in hell.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by 1Godfather(m): 2:54am On Jan 08, 2013|
[shakes his head]Whimpering does not become you. Then again, I suppose its not surprising as you are hardly the poster-boy for restraint and refinement, are you?
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 1:22pm On Jan 08, 2013|
[size=18pt]31) A problem of non-altruistic religious charity; Evangelism isnt selfless[/size]
1. Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness.[/size]
Religious charity can not be considered altruistic when there is evagelism tied to it. There are some christian and muslim organisations that mix proselytizing and charity work together. This shows an ulterior motive rather than a true selfless wish to help the less privileged
In short, the religious charity is saying "you are receiving this help from our God/religion, he is choosing to help you now and so believe in it"
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 1:43pm On Jan 08, 2013|
[size=18pt]32) Problems with Jesus's crucifixion #1; God can not die/no sacrifice[/size]
Some Christians hold that Jesus is God. If Jesus is truly God, then he cannot die. The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross then becomes meaningless because in reality, Jesus did not lose anything, he merely changed back from his human form to spirit form. Furthermore, he came back in his human form in 3 days according to the bible.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 1:55pm On Jan 08, 2013|
[size=18pt]33) Problems with Jesus's crucifixion #2; Suicide is a sin[/size]
Christianity holds that suicide is a sin (murder- murdering yourself). However, Jesus knew of his impending demise at the cross, yet, he allowed himself to be betrayed, captured and crucified. Suicide by assisted crucifixion. Jesus could have avoided the crucifixion but still followed through with the betrayal of Judas.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 2:07am On Jan 09, 2013|
[size=18pt]34) Problems with Jesus's crufixion #3; Forgiveness without sacrifice[/size]
Was Jesus's death really that necessary? God could not forgive the whole world just like that? A sacrifice was necessary?
The sacrifice not only ruined Jesus's life but that of Judas who was predestined to betray Jesus. There is also Mary, who must have been saddened by losing her son.
One has to think of the message that the bible is sending. God, in his almighty omnipotence and omniscience, could not fathom out a way to forgive humankind of their sins that did not involve the torture and death of an innocent man called Jesus Christ?
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 2:27am On Jan 09, 2013|
[size=18pt]34) Problem of incest in Christianity, Islam and Judaism[/size]
There are cases of incest in the holy books of these religions. Incest done by prophets of these religions.
-Adam and Eve; Eve according to the bible is a rib-clone of Adam. This makes Adam her parent and also husband.
-Adam and Eve's children; Since Adam and Eve were the only people on earth, their children would have to have had incest to populate the world
-Abraham and Sarah; Abraham married his half-sister Sarah
-Muhammad and Zaynab; Muhammad married his first cousin, Zaynab (who was previously betrothed to his adopted son)
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 2:41am On Jan 09, 2013|
[size=18pt]35) Simple reasons why the Abrahamic religions should not legislate over the sanctity of marriage[/size]
-Marriage existed in other cultures and religions before these three religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) existed
-There is incest in their holy books (see argument 34)
-Their prophets had insane numbers of wives; Muhammad- 12 and Solomon- 700
-Divorce happens in both secular and religious marriages; no one has the high ground.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 4:49am On Jan 09, 2013|
[size=18pt]36) Another paradoxical problem with omniscience[/size]
We agree that a "married bachelor" can not exist because it is contradictory and self-refuting. An omniscient God is self-refuting and contradictory.
-Omniscience means knowing all things
If God knows everything, then he can not forget. However, that would also mean that he can't experience deja vu- he would always know where he got his experiences from. However, this then means that God does not know how it really feels to experience a moment of deja vu
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 4:47pm On Jan 09, 2013|
[size=18pt]37) A problem of many gods in monotheistic religions[/size]
The Abrahamic faiths are monotheistic with the claim that there is one true God but there are instances where other gods are mentioned. Is it that there are other gods which the true God knows?
-The bible says; Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me."
-The bible says; Psalm 82:1 "God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the "gods"
-In islam, Muhammad's father was a pagan named Abdallah (meaning slave of god).
[size=14pt]You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,....................
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 6:23pm On Jan 09, 2013|
[size=18pt]38) Is God afraid of modern technology?[/size]
Some religious people claim that they talk to God or see him in visions or dreams or he leaves signs. In christianity, God wrote the commandments on a stone tablet.
However, God doesnt send text messages or emails or calls nowadays. Why is God so old school? It makes one skeptical of God. He never reveals himself in identifiable ways. God prefers to reveal himself in subjective and unverifiable ways like dreams and visions, which could easily be chalked up to hallucinations.
|Re: A Library Of The Best 40 Atheist Arguments Against God/religion (NOW WITH PICS) by Nobody: 6:54pm On Jan 09, 2013|
39) A problem of evolution and the Abrahamic faiths
The Abrahamic religions state that God created man from earth/sand/water/mud in the beginning. However, human evolution shows that humans evolved from other animals.
This has forced many adherents of the Abrahamic faiths to reject evolution. Howver, evolution is the science and it remains a valid scientific theory. This has resulted in court battles where schools in the USA had to go to court to ge the right to teach evolution in the past.
Evolution and the Abrahamic faith's creation theology are incompatible despite the attempt at reforms to accept a theistic evolution.
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