musKeeto: Great story.

But remeber your promise after the elections: to profer solutions rather than criticise...


What do you think is the way forward?

Regarding the spread of secularism (if that's what you're about to bring up), remember that Goshen360 not Anony won more Christian votes. Think about that.

Logicboy03: [img]http://grantlawrence.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/DjangoUnchainedWallpaper-1c733.jpg[/img]




Django unchained is a great movie. One of the best of 2012. It is a movie about a freed slave trying to free his wife. However, it brought back a repressed memory.


There is a scene in the movie where a slave-master read the bible before whipping a slave with a horsewhip. At that very moment, both my fists and jaw were clenched in anger as a forgotten memory was brought back to life by that scene. I remembered my baptism and confirmation preparation in my catholic church as a young boy;

-the reverend father was giving a long speech about being a new person in God after we (the teenagers ready to be baptised) had already done a 1-hour preparation for the baptism. I needed to use the toilet and couldnt hold it anymore and so, I made my way out. The rev. father noticed me and asked where I was going and I told him that I needed to use the toilet. The next thing I know, he knocked me on the head and was shouting at me to get back on the line. He did this with the bible in one hand. I had to wait another 30 mins to ease myself.



Christians have to live in denial that their holy book doesnt condone violence and slavery. When you give power to a book that contains such violence, do you really expect that some people wont take it literally rather then metaphorically?


Now, one can easily say that the reverend father here does not represent all clergy men. True, but he represents a significant number of clergymen who advocated violence on the weak and those deemed to be heretics. From popes in the 13th century to witch-slapping Oyedepo.


Christianity and slavery is something that remains a dark stain in our history that still lingers today. It lingers today in the form of blacks who are physically free but now mentally enslaved to a religion of their slave-masters.

engrtee: my dad used to teach me to urinate and excrete every morning so as not to be pressed away from home. Were you taught that?

Logicboy03:
The way forward is simple. Let the information spread. People will start questioning their belief.

coogar:

this is depressing -
how can you compare what obtains in the 13th century and use it to whip christians in the 21st century? that's too desperate. as the centuries rolled by, man's cruelty towards another reduced and it would continue to reduce.

Logicboy03:

Oyedepo doesnt live in the 21st century? Abortion clinic bombers (AKA christian terrorists)dont live in the 21st century?

The most peaceful countries in the world have moved past religion. Religion adds to a discrimination that already exists; religious discrimination.

coogar:

there are good and bad elements in every organisation in the world - it then doesn't mean you should paint everyone with the same brush - are you saying there's no violence in atheism?



which countries have moved past religion?

Logicboy03:
1) You can't be violent because you are an atheist. There are violent atheists but they aren't violent because of atheism. Why? Atheism is only a stance on the existence of God.

2) A christian can be violent for both christian and non-christian reasons. There are violent passages in the bible or the christian could come from a violent home.

3) Countries that have moved past religion are secular countries in which the separation of church and state is quite clear, religion holds little importance in everyday life and they have a significant amount of atheists/agnostics/irreligious. Japan and Denmark for one.

4) The bible supports slavery. Django is about slavery of blacks which was supported by the bible and major christian denominations.

coogar:

exactly my point....
that someone is violent does not necessarily mean he is that way because of his religion. the laws in the bible you are desperately hanging on to were laws made more than 2000 years ago. surely, those laws fitted into what obtains back then and cannot apply in the modern world!

coogar:

there's no violent passage in the new testament - this is where you get it wrong. the pröstitute that was chased by men with stones were following the mosaic law but jesus stopped them from executing her. that should tell you that what obtained when moses wrote the 10 commandments did not longer apply when jesus was around and some of the things that obtained when jesus was around can no longer apply today. this is common sense!

coogar:

and no violent crime exists at all in these countries? lmao!!! are you writing because you like the colour of your prints? if i print the crime stats in denmark, you would close this thread up.

coogar:

what is wrong with the bible supporting slavery back in the days? it's a trade - an exchange of humans for money or whatever material gain. prisoners of war are kept and traded for materials. in the modern world, they are kept in prison and are exchanged for other humans. that was what the society dictated then because there was little or no civilisation.

Uyi Iredia: Abeg logicboy quit with the lies. Shintoism is popular in Japan, Christianity is also growing there. And a considerable amount of religionists still exist in the countries listed in that index. Its annoying when you gesticulate at their secularism and try to pretend that its the reason for their success whereas it isn't.

Logicboy03:
Atheism is not a religion. Also, the New Testament supports slavery!

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Then why dont christians throw away the old testament and why dont they use only a new testament bible? Why do christians quote the old testament against gays or to show the 10 commandments? Hmmm?

Who said that? I said that the countries are the most peaceful not 100% peace.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/943697_Peace_index_pnga459955cbaf71f0152698ecd07e19473

You are a psychopath for that comment in bold. So you clearly see nothing wrong with supporting slavery in the past?

coogar:

stop embarrassing yourself!
slavery as at then was a norm and a way of trading - that was the level of civilisation as at then and it's perfectly normal to own slaves. 2000 yrs later, civilisation embraced a higher level and slavery was abolished. in another 2000 years, maybe guns would be abolished and the laws that govern us today would be laughed at by the coming generations.



you cannot just throw away history. that's an illogical point of view. some of the things in the old testament are still relevant. it's up to the believer to apply his common sense. in the old testament, every witch must be put to death - but you cannot apply that law these days after almost 3000 yrs. if jesus comes to the world today, some of these laws would be modified to fit into the world we find ourselves. that is common sense!



you must be a stark illiterate......
the most peaceful does not mean no crime or low levels of crime. what has peace gotta do with it? peace is the opposite of war. the countries up there do not go to war or have any sorta of civil war but it does not remove violent crimes. if you cannot discern the difference between violent crimes and war then you should close this thread and get some much needed education.




you are a consummate rëtard
slavery was the norm when the apostles wrote the bible - to deny such is an act of lunacy. that was the height of the roman empire. if you have any nous, you should know by now it's actually a form of trading. to then have laws written about what obtained in that society in the past is no wrong doing unless you are a dingbat!

Logicboy03:
1) I dont like to engage psychopaths. You supported the slavery of the past in the bible. No need for me to argue

2) It might do you well to understand the variables and criteria for composing that list;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index#Methodology
Read up to my level before I can discuss with you.

coogar:

you are a disgusting sack of shyte......
when you are cornered then the philosophical psychobabble a quickly follow through? your problem is your lack of intelligence.....from the 1st century to the 21st century, there were practises that were fully legal and later got abolished. people were executed for stealing bread in the same england where today, there's no death penalty......it would be silly to think the bible should not provide laws and rules governing slavery back then. slaves are meant to respect their masters just like you respect your boss.

coogar:
dearie me, i am debating with a wikipedia fool......
you are a disgrace to the community that sponsored your education - what is this tool talking about? countries with no religion are doing better? how so? is there religion in dubai and abu dhabi? yes.........are they faring worse than denmark and norway? hell no! the crime stats in denmark is moderate, not low as you would have us think. singapore is another country where christianity is practised - they are more peaceful than denmark so try another lie, you homoerotic pleb!

Logicboy03:
Yes...yes...let the butthurt flow........
You are a psychopath. My issue is with the bible and not the civilizations. The ancient civilizations got it wrong and christianity/judaism were there to even make it worse by supporting and regulating it.

Lolz.....ignorance! The peace index is not done by wikipedia! FAIL
The peace index is a study done by researchers and preoffessionals and is use by organisations like the World Bank

Logicboy03:
UAE should not even be mentioned compared to these less religious countries. You love sharia law or something? Funny you should mention Singapore
The peace index is there for you to rank countries. Dont pull things out of your azz

coogar:

you must be a tool......
christians could not fight the romans, could they? until you bend your head around the fact that slavery was a norm then and it wasn't distasteful as you see it today(2000 yrs later) then you would forever be hopelessly deluded. another case is female circümcision.....while it would be frowned upon today, it was a normal ish about 100-200 years ago with the blessings of religious leaders. so were they psychopaths or were they barbaric even when it's an accepted practise 2000 yrs ago? stop thinking like a goat for feck's sake.....

coogar:
whoever said the peace index was done by wikipedia - i am attacking you for running to wikipedia to present your facts at the first sign of trouble. even the link you posted has destroyed your argument. according to your link, iceland is world's most peaceful country but it was a bit surprising that 77% of the population of iceland are affiliated to the church of iceland. another 11% are christians of the other denominations - which makes it 88%. so which is which, zombie? the irony is the fact that you call yourself a logic boy - stüpid boy would be more apt, don't you think?

A Gallup poll conducted in 2011 found that 60% of Icelanders considered religion to be unimportant in their daily lives, one of the highest rates of irreligion in the world

Logicboy03:
Yawn, you are a psychopath. Accept it

We can look to nigeria where pagan religions existed before Europeans and Arabs came. Why didnt many Nigerian tribes have chattel slavery? Why were pagans smarter than the christians in moving away from slavery?

You can keep supporting slavery in the bible. aweh, God of slavery
Psychopath
Abeg, you are only embarrassing yourself. It is irrelevant if I went to the peace index site directly or Wikipedia. Your complaint of wikipedia is desperate in this case.

Furthermore, 38% of iceland's population are atheists. If you understood religious polls you would understand that people identify with a religion for traditional purposes not religious purposes (they only tick christian because family is christian)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iceland

coogar:

which stüpid nigeria is this tool talking about? you mean there were no slavery in nigeria? people were not going to other hamlets to capture slaves and used them in the farms and their other sorta trades? you must be a complete nitwit!

coogar:
slavery as at 2000 yrs ago was perfectly legal.......
your forefathers sold slaves in nigeria to the white men in exchange for guns, jack daniel liquor and mirrors. it was a perfect way of trading. when a certain tribe captures the other, human beings were part of the spoils of the war. get over it and stop whining like a baboon!

coogar:
38% are atheists? what were they before they became atheists? christians right? because their family or their roots are christians. so what was the situation in iceland when everyone were christians? they had wars? suicide bombers or what? if i insult you now, people would say i am too harsh and yet you continue to display copious amount of idiocy!

coogar:
rubbish poll!
majority of these icelandic people have always been christians and they have always been peaceful! that's the single most important fact - to come here and bend the facts makes you desperate. you are arguing like they have always been atheists - no they are not and while they were christians, peace still reigned in their country! you really should not argue about what you don't know - you are a pleb!

Logicboy03:
Where the f4ck did you get that lie from? Where?
See this uncle Tom!!

FYI, My ancestors from the Niger-Delta never enslaved anyone. They had polygamous relationships with many children- everyone helped on the farm and there was labour (this still goes on today). Prisoners of Wars from other villages were killed- beheaded. Efa festival in the past was celebrated with the head of other enemy villagers.

Good lord, you are a slave, in order to defend your white slave master religion, you have to lie against your own black people?
Psychopath!
Yawn
Yawn

coogar:

quit it - stop talking. one more word from you and i'd time-travel to 1967 and drop your mother at the abortion clinic to have you terminated. uncle tom because you are hearing the raw truth from me? may amadioha impregnate you with albino quintuplets!



your ancestors were barbarians!
they were savages, they raided villages, stole, räped, murdered children and women in cold blood. they enslaved the men and traded them for material wealth. prisoners of war were either traded or converted to personal possession or sometimes eaten! yes, some of your ancestors were cannibals who used human heads in their ritualistic fetishes.



you are a lunatic!
if your ancestors didn't aided n abetted the whites, they wouldn't have succeeded in carting slaves away in multitudes. if your ancestors had put up a united front, they would have stopped slavery but your ancestors sold out - all because of guns and alcohol! little wonder there has never been peace in the niger-delta and you would never know peace like the soul of a child-molester. the blood of the innocent souls slayed by your ancestors is the reason there's disease, strife, untold hardship and hunger in the niger-delta! crude oil is not the problem, the blood of the innocent is the scourge of the naija delta!

denzel2009: Logicboy is receiving history lessons he dodged years back.

Logicboy03:
Yawn, my ancestors were barbaric but they never enslaved anyone and they were not cannibals.

You are an uncle tom. You have been brainwashed with some redneck racist version of African history.

coogar:

your ancestors ate human flesh....they captured slaves and sold to the imperialists. the white men did not arrive in africa to start catching slaves by themselves. they were helped by your ancestors. your ancestors were the ones capturing the slaves and "selling" to the white men. this is why it's a trade!



brainwashed? uncle tom?
i think you have lost your ability to think.

coogar:

your ancestors ate human flesh....they captured slaves and sold to the imperialists. the white men did not arrive in africa to start catching slaves by themselves. they were helped by your ancestors. your ancestors were the ones capturing the slaves and "selling" to the white men. this is why it's a trade!



brainwashed? uncle tom?
i think you have lost your ability to think.

"They seize numbers of our free or freed black subjects, and even nobles, sons of nobles, even the members of our own family."
Excerpt from letter from Affonso, King of Congo, to King of Portugal João III, 18 October 1526.

Within the space of four hundred years millions of people were forcibly taken from Africa as slaves. The majority of them went to the Americas, although many were taken to the Middle East and North Africa.

Slavery had been practised all over the world for thousands of years, but never before had so many people from one continent been transported to another against their will.

It is hard to be precise, but around 15 million Africans in total were forcibly taken from the continent into slavery. Large scale slave trading in Africa ceased towards the end of the 19th century, but its legacy of suffering continues today.

Logicboy03: Coogar, you have been served

coogar:

the combination of you, muskeeto and all the atheists on this forum cannot match the intelligence in my toe-nail. coogar served? obasanjo has a better chance of joining the kkk. now lemme lecture you fools on what obtained during the slave trade era.....

SLAVE TRADE IN AFRICA

It is estimated that the English transported 1,900,000 slaves to their colonies in the Caribbean from 1651 to 1807 when they finally abolished the slave trade. The French, whose trade lasted between 1664 and 1830, shipped about 1,650,000 to their colonies. In roughly the same period, the Dutch took 900,000 to the Guianas and the West Indies. Of course, these figures do not include those who died on the sea voyage and those who were killed by slave hunters in the gathering process in Africa.

The European slave trading companies and also independent slave traders carried out their slave collecting in western Africa in the areas of Senegal, Gambia, the Gold Coast, the Niger delta, and even as far south as the Congo River and Angola. The captains of slave ships traded directly with African chiefs or through "factors" who were European agents in charge of slave collecting centres. At these centres, the slaves were kept in enclosed areas known as baracoons.

All over western Africa, domestic slavery existed within various tribes. Actually, the lowest caste within these tribes were born and lived as slaves and performed the task as servants in households. Merchants who also owned slaves used them for carrying heavy loads through the forest and savannah.

"Prisoners of war" captured during inter-tribal warfare and raids were generally sold to European slave traders. In many cases, groups of African "slave catchers" were employed by the factors to raid villages and capture the residents who became part of the growing slave collection in the baracoons.

On arrival on the coast, after many days of travel, the slaves were penned up in the baracoon, where they were prepared for sale. They were washed and their bodies were shaved and oiled to give them a good appearance. The European buyer who arrived in his slave trading ship would examine each slave before he agreed upon a price.

The African slave dealers often demanded payment in cowrie shells, their own currency, and certain European goods which included iron bars, brass basins, and good quality cloth. In the 1690s, a slave was bought for goods equivalent to about 4 English pounds. About a hundred years later, as some records show, a British slave trader paid for each male slave 96 yards of cloth, 52 handkerchiefs, 1 large brass pan, 2 muskets, 25 kegs of gunpowder, 100 flints, 2 bags of shot, 20 knives, 4 iron pots, 4 hats, 4 caps, 4 cutlasses, 6 bunches of beads ans 14 gallons of brandy.
-----------------------
-----------------------
that is the story your cannibalistic forefathers deliberately left out in their bedtime stories. they were cannibals, they owned domestic slaves before the arrival of the imperialists and they helped the imperialists catch slaves from the other tribes and made wealth from the business.

All over western Africa, domestic slavery existed within various tribes. Actually, the lowest caste within these tribes were born and lived as slaves and performed the task as servants in households. Merchants who also owned slaves used them for carrying heavy loads through the forest and savannah