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Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding - Politics - Nairaland

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Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by odumorun1: 2:02pm On Jan 15, 2013
Nigeria’s interference in Mali is a foolish and ill thought out intervention on behalf of a colonial power –France and it will end in tears. Ours.

The idea that this will somehow subdue an ideology, Islamism that has thrived on positioning itself as an opposition force to western domination of developing countries is risible. I am no supporter of Islamist jihadism indeed I oppose it, however everywhere it has reared its head spawned by the mass poverty and degradation imposed by corrupt western friendly puppet regimes, western intervention has worsened not solved the problem. Only well governed countries that offer their people a life other than the hell many of them are subjected to can hope to defeat this cancer. Has anybody ever heard of Islamist groups trying to overturn Malaysia, a highly developed Muslim country, or Turkey?
If the better armed, better trained and far more martial Americans could not defeat islamist insurgencies in Afghanistan and Iraq, what hope has the notoriously flaky French , a country that has not on its own won any war in the last 100 years.

The Americans left Iraq under fire, with their enemies the Sunni and Shia Islamist militants still under arms, having lost almost 40,000 causalities – killed and injured. The power of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq, which the now disgraced Patraeus falsely claimed to have defeated, is currently manifesting itself in neighbouring Syria, where the ongoing anti Assad insurrection is largely led by ex Iraqi insurgents who cut their teeth fighting the Americans after the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Is it not obvious that hundreds of members of Boko Haram will now go to fight in Mali and return battle hardened, better trained and armed.
Was it not the French led intervention in Libya that brought about the current debacle in Mali. Gadaffi was no islamist. He was actually one of their most determined enemies. The Americans, French and British armed thousands of his Islamist enemies provided them air support sweeping them all the way to Tripoli. The same people emboldened by their victory in Libya are now extending their reach south to Black Africa, with their former western supporters patrons now returning to stop the expansion of Islamic terror they unleashed in the first place! The hypocrisy is staggering.

Mali is a massive country. Can France hope to police the entire land mass of this desert region when the Islamist retreat from the cities to start an insurgency in the countryside. Or will they hand it over to the Nigerian army to bleed them for years as they were bled in Liberia and Sierra Leone.

Let’s not forget that the United States initially supported Charles Taylor’s rebellion against Samuel Doe, the victory of which sparked a bloodbath across the region engulfing Sierra Leone and Guinea in horror. Thousands of Nigerian soldiers died to help halt it. Then the British landed in Freetown for a photo shoot.
However unlike the bandits of the RUF and NPLF, the Malian rebels, regardless of how distasteful they are do have a cause which from experience they will not tire of. So unlike the Sierra Leone or Liberian rebels they will not be bought off.

This invasion of Mali by France will lead to a bloodbath across the region. Thousands of jihadist from across the world will make their way to Mali, bringing techniques, skills and know how from Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Yemen to our backdoor. Even if they don’t ultimately win they will make the country ungovernable. To reduce its own casualties and the political costs back home France will rely increasingly on air power and high explosives. Ultimately there will be heavy casualties turning civilians against the intervention.
From Mali, battle hardened militants, their;’credential s’ boosted by fighting a first world power would make their way across Africa and Nigeria will be next.
Those cheering this intervention have forgotten something. The French are able to protect themselves from the resultant blowback. Can we?

Can a Country unable to defend itself from armed teenagers in the delta and armed street boys in the north – a Government so weak that it has to bribe rebels to lay down their arms because it hasn’t the political, moral and military muscle to crush, can such a country hope to deal with the blowback we can expect from this foolish piece of grandstanding by Goodluck.
The idea that an islamist takeover of Mali will spread terror across the region betrays a lack of real understanding of the dynamics of radical movements. Nothing tames radicalism as much as the responsibility imposed by power. Insurgents are dangerous because they have no fixed address. Blowing up buildings is easier than fixing pot holes in the roads or providing basic necessities to the people.

More importantly having a government with officials who have known addresses and can be targeted means once in power radical regimes tend to tone down their external interferences in order to avoid massive retribution, they can no longer escape by being permanently underground
Hamas in power is less dangerous than Hamas as opposition. The islamists in Libya spurned power for this very reason. The same will happen in Syria when Assad falls.
This is not about stopping the spread of so-called Jihadism in the region. It is about maintaining French colonial control over its West African client states. Nothing more. The Nigerian army is merely a pawn in this game.

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Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by executinal(m): 2:19pm On Jan 15, 2013
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Can a Country unable to defend itself from armed teenagers in the delta and armed street boys in the north – a Government so weak that it has to bribe rebels to lay down their arms because it hasn’t the political, moral and military muscle to crush, can such a country hope to deal with the blowback we can expect from this foolish piece of grandstanding by Goodluck.
This is were our problem lies. When OBJ used force against Odi people they called him names, Goodluck send troup to North and declare state of emergency they called him names and even said the JTF is killing innocent civilians. Ok Government now decided to dialogue with angry boys they call the government weak government angry

@Op kindly inform that Ediot that Naija must send troupe to Mali because they play active role in African politics, Mali is Ecowas menber (ECOMOG) and not only that other African countries are looking up to Naija. So if they fail to send their troupe, then others will draw back, as for Boko haram we are still watching and treating them as our own, i tell you if Naija want to crush boko rams it will not take us 24 hours. But trust me and you we will keep shouting that they are killing civilian and innocent people.

Naija troupe must go to MALI cool cool

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Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by odumorun1: 1:54am On Jan 16, 2013
Don't delude yourself. The amount of force a government can bring to bear on any insurgency is determined by the moral authority of the rulers and the governing class that produced it. In countires like America, Israel and the UK. Soldiers and law enforcement officers willingly put their lives on the line, because they know that whatever happens to them, their families will be taken care of for life.

In Nigeria, dependants of policement and soldiers kiled in the lihne of duty, colapse from hunger on the endless queues fo rtheir salin breadwinners gratutiy. Policement and soldiers families get thrown of the barracks weeks, in some cases days after their family memeber in the force is killed. The money they are entitled to nestling and gaining interest in soe corrupt senior officers account. Is it such an army, that will risk it's lives for the thieves and cowards who send to fight wars, while they send their sons and daughters ot the best schools in Europe with stolen public funds.

It's alright for comfortable middle class arm chair warriors in the big Nigerian cities and the diaspora to demand for war, the soldiers who are going to fight it, many of whom are brave, but not stupid will not gibve their all for political and military leaders whome they know are theives who would loot their death money and watch their children starve. That is the reason why the Nigerian army has been unable to mdefeat Boko Haram on the Niger delta militants. To the uniformed poster who mentioned Odi as an example of the strenght of the Nigerian Army, it was Odi that actually sparked the widespread militancy in the Niger delta. The army used long range artilery to pund Odi, because after scores of Soldiers from the amphibious brigade in Port harcourt were killed in ambush, there was anear mutiny in the bhrigade.

It was fear of more soldiers being kiled in an unfamiliar area that pushed the regime to use long range artillery. It had the opposite effect or sparking an armed uprising al over the Niger delta of youths with nothing to loose.

If you were a soldier would you risk your life for the corrupt rulingb elite ruling this country.

Maybe you need to get off your playstation X box and go into the real world of real mostly underpriviledged and over cheated people the Nigerain army draws its recruits from

4 Likes

Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by idupaul: 7:46am On Jan 16, 2013
Beautiful and truthful article.. There is no doubt the Nigerian contingent will come back hardened islamist on their heels
Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by teskyg: 8:03am On Jan 16, 2013
So u prefer the Islamist to overrun Mali and put their Government in place?Would you also prefer such a Boko Haram to over run Nigeria in same way?

2 Likes

Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by komekn(m): 12:44pm On Jan 16, 2013
I will refer you to comments i made on another post.

https://www.nairaland.com/1162901/fg-send-troops-mali-next/1#13847897

NUFF SAID
Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by Nobody: 2:28pm On Jan 16, 2013
odumorun 1: Don't delude yourself. The amount of force a government can bring to bear on any insurgency is determined by the moral authority of the rulers and the governing class that produced it. In countires like America, Israel and the UK. Soldiers and law enforcement officers willingly put their lives on the line, because they know that whatever happens to them, their families will be taken care of for life.

In Nigeria, dependants of policement and soldiers kiled in the lihne of duty, colapse from hunger on the endless queues fo rtheir salin breadwinners gratutiy. Policement and soldiers families get thrown of the barracks weeks, in some cases days after their family memeber in the force is killed. The money they are entitled to nestling and gaining interest in soe corrupt senior officers account. Is it such an army, that will risk it's lives for the thieves and cowards who send to fight wars, while they send their sons and daughters ot the best schools in Europe with stolen public funds.

It's alright for comfortable middle class arm chair warriors in the big Nigerian cities and the diaspora to demand for war, the soldiers who are going to fight it, many of whom are brave, but not stupid will not gibve their all for political and military leaders whome they know are theives who would loot their death money and watch their children starve. That is the reason why the Nigerian army has been unable to mdefeat Boko Haram on the Niger delta militants. To the uniformed poster who mentioned Odi as an example of the strenght of the Nigerian Army, it was Odi that actually sparked the widespread militancy in the Niger delta. The army used long range artilery to pund Odi, because after scores of Soldiers from the amphibious brigade in Port harcourt were killed in ambush, there was anear mutiny in the bhrigade.

It was fear of more soldiers being kiled in an unfamiliar area that pushed the regime to use long range artillery. It had the opposite effect or sparking an armed uprising al over the Niger delta of youths with nothing to loose.

If you were a soldier would you risk your life for the corrupt rulingb elite ruling this country.

Maybe you need to get off your playstation X box and go into the real world of real mostly underpriviledged and over cheated people the Nigerain army draws its recruits from
As usual, a contributor comes in here, making arrogant,, haughty accusations against the nation's leadership without bothering to present even the most basic proof of his wild allegations. Kindly prove that nigerian soldiers who died in battle had their families thrown out of the barracks and left to starve or admit you''re a spiteful liar.

1 Like

Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by ow11(m): 2:47pm On Jan 16, 2013
teskyg: So u prefer the Islamist to overrun Mali and put their Government in place?Would you also prefer such a Boko Haram to over run Nigeria in same way?



odumorun 1: The idea that an islamist takeover of Mali will spread terror across the region betrays a lack of real understanding of the dynamics of radical movements. Nothing tames radicalism as much as the responsibility imposed by power. Insurgents are dangerous because they have no fixed address. Blowing up buildings is easier than fixing pot holes in the roads or providing basic necessities to the people.

More importantly having a government with officials who have known addresses and can be targeted means once in power radical regimes tend to tone down their external interferences in order to avoid massive retribution, they can no longer escape by being permanently underground
Hamas in power is less dangerous than Hamas as opposition. The islamists in Libya spurned power for this very reason. The same will happen in Syria when Assad falls.
This is not about stopping the spread of so-called Jihadism in the region. It is about maintaining French colonial control over its West African client states. Nothing more. The Nigerian army is merely a pawn in this game.
Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by ow11(m): 2:49pm On Jan 16, 2013
The French Army bungled a rescue ops in Somalia the US Navy Seals did with aplomb a few years ago. Today, they have gone to Mali to 'help' radicalise Boko further to bomb Northern Nigeria to the 14th century.

http://www.voanews.com/content/somali-rebels-declare-death-sentence-for-french-hostage/1584701.html

Radicalism is fueled by desperation brought about by poverty and state sponsored corruption. This has always happened through out human history. Until we fix the starvation and desperation in the North, we in the south will continue to have drums of war beating in our domain.
Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by Arosa(m): 3:54pm On Jan 16, 2013
Nigeria should send more troops to Mali, 900 men is not enough. we need to send a strong message to those Islamist that we are ready to fu.k them up. God bless Africa.
Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by Rossikk(m): 4:12pm On Jan 16, 2013
ROSSIKE: As usual, a contributor comes in here, making arrogant, haughty accusations against the nation's leadership without bothering to present even the most basic proof of his wild allegations. Kindly prove that Nigerian soldiers who died in battle had their families thrown out of the barracks and left to starve or admit you're a spiteful liar.
Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by seunfly: 4:21pm On Jan 16, 2013
I learn from both arguments as they seems like a solution to it, but i think Nigeria does not just sent troop, there must be some deal behind the scene that we don't knw. Even though the deal may not be at the intrest of Nigeria but i bet our leaders have something to cut from it as they usualy do.
Another things that worries me is when it come to contribution financialy, economicaly, millitary wise and other things that warant Nigeria to give up something dearly, they alway remenber that we are giant, strategic and important in Africa but when it is about benifit, power, UN parmanent seat, dominion and influence they will say we are not resposible, not important and not relivant they will rather give it to malawi, ghana, uganda or gabon. I will advice our leaders to start cuting deals of national intrest and stop them from making us to be instruments rather than contigents.

2 Likes

Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by odumorun1: 4:48pm On Jan 17, 2013
[quote author=Rossikk][/quote]

Perhaps you should pay more attention.

A couple of years back an entire battallion in Akure mutinied over unpaid nonueses due them from their service on so-callled peace keeping missions. And those are soldiers who are living, what do you think happens to those who are dead. Go to any barracks and ask what happens to the families of police men killed by armed robbers. or what other proof do you want. A police report?. Or an army intelligence file. I'll give you that the day, cats begin to investigate the murder of rats by cats

It is not spiteful to call a thief a theif. The nigerian government is corrupt and has always been corrupt. What is spiteful about describing them the way they are. Why should people who steal money while their people can't get access to pipe borne water, to ggod roads be entitled to any respect.

Nigeria has earned almsot half a trillion dolars in foreign revenue from oil since its discovery in the Niger Delta in the 60's. There is NOT ONE town or City in the country that has a working elctricity, water, sewage or road transport system. Goodluck Jonathan has ruled for at least 5 of those years, so he is culpable. if he is not then let him bring the criminals to book or else be condemed as one of them.

Spiteful allegations against the countries leadership you say - I will say it is more spiteful for a leadership not to do its job - improve the welfare of its people, while engaging in foreign adventures at the behest of foreign powers like France who flooded the region with sophisticated arms after bombing Libya and killing its president and now expect young nigerian men to clear the mess they created with their lives

1 Like

Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by Rossikk(m): 5:32pm On Jan 17, 2013
odumorun 1:

Perhaps you should pay more attention.

A couple of years back an entire battallion in Akure mutinied over unpaid nonueses due them from their service on so-callled peace keeping missions. And those are soldiers who are living, what do you think happens to those who are dead. Go to any barracks and ask what happens to the families of police men killed by armed robbers. or what other proof do you want. A police report?. Or an army intelligence file. I'll give you that the day, cats begin to investigate the murder of rats by cats

It is not spiteful to call a thief a theif. The nigerian government is corrupt and has always been corrupt. What is spiteful about describing them the way they are. Why should people who steal money while their people can't get access to pipe borne water, to ggod roads be entitled to any respect.

Nigeria has earned almsot half a trillion dolars in foreign revenue from oil since its discovery in the Niger Delta in the 60's. There is NOT ONE town or City in the country that has a working elctricity, water, sewage or road transport system. Goodluck Jonathan has ruled for at least 5 of those years, so he is culpable. if he is not then let him bring the criminals to book or else be condemed as one of them.

Spiteful allegations against the countries leadership you say - I will say it is more spiteful for a leadership not to do its job - improve the welfare of its people, while engaging in foreign adventures at the behest of foreign powers like France who flooded the region with sophisticated arms after bombing Libya and killing its president and now expect young nigerian men to clear the mess they created with their lives

''Half a trillion dollars blah blah''. What is half a trillion dollars earned over a 50 year period for 167 million people?

The USA makes over 5 times that amount in one single year, yet you're wondering why all Nigerian cities do not look like Los Angeles and New York. Even if ALL the money made by Nigeria in the last 50 years had been invested 'wisely' we would STILL have serious development issues because the wealth we generate is NOT as ''huge'' as mythorians like you like to make out. It will take several decades for Nigeria to become a fully developed nation, and if you cannot wait, there's the door.

At least the Nigerian govt provided mass education plus 120 universities for commoners like you to be educated. The colonial govt that ruled us for 87 years, how many unis did they build in that period despite exploiting and exporting our resources for a century? Answer: 0. What was the literacy rate when they left in 1960? Answer: 7%. Today that figure is 75% courtesy of Nigerian leadership. I've not even began with infrastructure where, incredibly, they left us without a national grid, producing just 270 mw, and without a single expressway, after their 87 year long rule. So count your blessings instead of seeing only bad. We're not where we want to be, but we are moving forward.
Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by TechRev: 5:34pm On Jan 17, 2013
If you understood what the aim of the Islamist are, you would understand that abstaining from the conflict doesn't guarantee your security. Nigeria made the right decision in sending military support in terms of personnel and equipment. If you do not talk/act when they come for your neighbors, one day they will come for you and you will have no neighbors to act for you.

Yes there may be backlash from that decision but as a president, i will rather keep the Islamists busy in a far away country than have them keep me busy at my own door step. Only that Mali is not that far from Nigeria but still best to take the fight to them.

1 Like

Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by odumorun1: 7:08pm On Jan 18, 2013
Rossikk:

''Half a trillion dollars blah blah''. What is half a trillion dollars earned over a 50 year period for 167 million people?

The USA makes over 5 times that amount in one single year, yet you're wondering why all Nigerian cities do not look like Los Angeles and New York. Even if ALL the money made by Nigeria in the last 50 years had been invested 'wisely' we would STILL have serious development issues because the wealth we generate is NOT as ''huge'' as mythorians like you like to make out. It will take several decades for Nigeria to become a fully developed nation, and if you cannot wait, there's the door.

At least the Nigerian govt provided mass education plus 120 universities for commoners like you to be educated. The colonial govt that ruled us for 87 years, how many unis did they build in that period despite exploiting and exporting our resources for a century? Answer: 0. What was the literacy rate when they left in 1960? Answer: 7%. Today that figure is 75% courtesy of Nigerian leadership. I've not even began with infrastructure where, incredibly, they left us without a national grid, producing just 270 mw, and without a single expressway, after their 87 year long rule. So count your blessings instead of seeing only bad. We're not where we want to be, but we are moving forward.


I can't remember mentioning Los Angeles and New york. Providing Pipe borne water and elctricity will not make a city look like New york. Just as providing a person 3 basic meals a day is not comparable to a 3 course meal in the ritz. But it is a start. We have not even started

You have not answered my question why not one town in Nigeria has working infrastructure. Surely the hundreds of bilions we have earned in oil should be enough to at least fund a minimum of infrastrutural development in a few towns. Who cares about what happened under the colonial leadership. They came to rape us - we all know that so why use that as a basis of comaprison with people who supppossedly came from amongst us to help us. we did not vote in the colonial leadeship, they never pretended to rule in our name unlike every indigenoues goverment ever since. It is a bit like a mother comparing her contributions to a child's life with that of his step-mother. Surely a more inteligent comparison will be with other mothers. But then I'm not holding my breath.

What about corruption - if according to you we have not got that much money, why is so much of it being stolen? All indices of development show Nigeria lagging behind other nations of its size and resources. Indonesai has a similar population as Nigeria, so does Brazil, perhaps you should visit these countries and see the level of development. Yes they are not New york or Los Angeles, but neither are they lagos or kano.

the nonesense - we are getting there has been the mantra of every Nigeria government since 1960, as they take us round in circles.

calling me a comoner suggest you don't consider yourself one. Probably you are not. maybe you are part of the elite. In other societeis the elite show their pride in what they have developed in their lands. You show your's by comparing your so - called achievements with a colonial master.

It is a bit like a man comparing his love making skills with those of his wife's rapist.

'Why are you complaining' at least i was more sensitive than the armed robber who raped you last week, be a bit more grateful now'


And why have you refused to mention corruption If the money we have is not according to you enough, why is so much of it being stolen.



On the public universities you mentioned - how many of them are being properly funded and have been so for the last 25 years. How many working labs do they have. how does the standard of eductation compare to that of other developing countries.

Malaysia is not a 3rd world country, but about 60 years ago they were at a comparable stage of development as us then.

1 Like

Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by odumorun1: 11:20pm On Jan 18, 2013
TechRev: If you understood what the aim of the Islamist are, you would understand that abstaining from the conflict doesn't guarantee your security. Nigeria made the right decision in sending military support in terms of personnel and equipment. If you do not talk/act when they come for your neighbors, one day they will come for you and you will have no neighbors to act for you.

Yes there may be backlash from that decision but as a president, i will rather keep the Islamists busy in a far away country than have them keep me busy at my own door step. Only that Mali is not that far from Nigeria but still best to take the fight to them.

You are talking twaddle. The same Goodluck now rushing to aid the French in Mali, was the same president who refused to condemn, even openly supported the French aggression 2 years ago in Libya - a war whose dirdect result now is the conflagration in Mali. History did not start with the last CNN baner. It goes back a bit further than that. But it takes a bit of atention and dare I say some brains to understand it properly So lets start with a few elementary questions and answers shall we?

HISTORY 101

QTS 1 Where did the Mali militants get the arms now being used as an excuse for French intervention

ANS 1 - Supplied by the French, British, Americans 2 years ago to fight gaddafi

QTS 2 - How did the islamists now sowing havoc in Mali overthrow gaddafi

ANS 2 - The same French jets now bombing them in Mali, provided the air support toverthrow gadaffi

QTS 3 - Who trained the Mali militants and their cohorts

Ans 3 - The most western friendly monarchy in the middle east - Quatar

QTS 4 How did terrorism find a foothold in North Africa

ANS 4 - in 1992 a free and fair election in Algeria was cancelled because it was won by an islamic party. The Algerian government cancelled under french instructions sparking an islamic insurgency and the beginings of international jihad

Final Qts - How did the father of islamic terror Osama Bin Laden first reach Afghanistan

Final answer - he was taken there with his colleagues by the CIA, MI5 and DST (French intelligence)


Who armed the jihadi's now fighting in Mali
Re: Mali Intervention - Goodluck's Foolish And Futile Granstanding by citizenisb: 11:21pm On Jan 18, 2013
NIGERIA THREATENED

But it is Nigeria which could be the greatest concern. With the region's biggest oil reserves and economy, its security forces are already bogged down in on-off fighting with Boko Haram militants in the north.

Abuja has wavered between not wanting to overstretch its army by intervening in Mali and hoping the mission could stamp out links between homegrown and global militants.

By dispatching the first of 1,200 soldiers this week, President Goodluck Jonathan opted for the latter.

"They want to cut off the Islamist problem at the root," said Bismarck Rewane, CEO of Lagos-based consultancy Financial Derivatives. "Not only could it inflame things here, but in the long run it won't solve the problem of Boko Haram's insurgency, which is to do with inequality and poor governance."

Most West Africans, including the Malians themselves, have been largely supportive of French intervention while regretting the inaction of regional powers to come to Bamako's rescue.

However, the failure of democracy to improve daily life in some of the world's poorest countries has opened the door to Islamic organizations to play a bigger role.

Ultra-conservative Wahhabism, spread by preachers coming from the Gulf, has made inroads.

"This intervention (in Mali) makes the whole sub-region considerably more vulnerable," Aning added.

"We are going to see the spread of the fronts from Mali."

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