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Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by jaybim: 12:13pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
Its rather unfortunate that d youths of this country who I bliv make up the most part of this forum and r heirs to steer dis nation r so shortsighted as to play d politics of division propagated by our leaders. Instead of objectively addressing issues gud or bad ppl wld rather antagonize based on d political divide dey belong to... To d Mata at hand. I am of d opinion dat credit shd b given wer its bn earned, Fashola may have his downsides bt on d whole only a blind person will state or swallow wat OP has put here, How can u in gud conscience state dat lagos workers earn so low? We all know dat even b4 d federal govt increased minimum wage lagos had increased and implemented hers. About d doctors... Do u bliv deir incessant strikes to b fair considering dat a fresh doctor in lagos receives close to 200k if not more? D fact dat doze ppl r poor, shd we now excuse dem n allow dem to continue to live under such conditions? Look at d big picture here... Poor ppl living under appalling sanitary conditions = unhealthy ppl= more ppl tasking an already stretched health system... Need I say more? Wen u come on a forum to say lagos owes so n so amount I expect u to provide proof, I didn't c any d world is rapidly evolving and we all marvel at Most western societies,aesthetically and oda spheres plus we desire to be like or dream of visiting dem YET u criticize d effort... I just don't get it. SMH |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by senbonzakurakageyoshi(m): 12:16pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
ba7man: Though its a good thing the Lagos State Government is curtailing the excesses of the population but there also has to be a balance. I respect the idea of the banning of Okadas till i decided to drop my car at home and take public transport to Ikeja....the ban is d right thing to do but mehn!!!...that day wasn't easy. And there are people that go thru this everyday. Yes, those ghettos are unsightly and dirty, clearing them is the right thing to do...until i witnessed the aftermath of a demolishion. Women, Children and men crying and lamenting. I then faced the reality that they had to be a better way to solving this same issue, there has to b a middle ground. One fact is that, we can't become the developed country we are aiming for without dropping the vestiges of under development. All those slums, okadas and stuff....they've got to go. I support resettling displaced people....but one thing you have to knw is that....Lagosians only learn the hard way. Even if you resettle the current crop of slum dwellers, another set will move in or spring up else where. Lagos state is doing the job of the FG and other state governments when you consider hw many people troop into Lagos on a daily basis. You can't expect the state government to cater for the ever expanding population with the limited allocation from the Federal government. We live in a society that is increasingly capitalist, yet the state government tries to take care of its responsibilities. Give it some credit. 2 Likes |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by modupea: 12:17pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
thoth: Hey bros, I don't agree with you on this. I live in that locality and I bear witness to what he said. There is a market nearby called Alade Market and there then was Chicken seller stalls. But these people moved there wares to the bus stop area because there was no rule of law. They are back to where they belong. Another example, on Carter bridge at the Lagos Island end, some years ago I dare not drive through that area because of people displaying their wares. For your information, larger percentage of them have shops inside the market but now, though there is still street trading, I go through the road to my workplace. It even reduces pressure on third mainland bridge. The government must act sometimes harshly to get things done. There are too many people in Lagos. Everyone wants to get to Lagos. Maybe there should be an head count based on the state of origin then the states should start paying some percentage of their allocation to Lagos to take care of their citizens. |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by bleufaucon: 12:22pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
0lumide: Don't get it wrong though, privatization is the worst thing that could happen in an emerging economy. |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by llljoseph1(m): 12:23pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
I totally agreed with you my dear. It’s good to transform Lagos but you have to consider lots of things. How many low cost houses have the government build for displaced poor when you destroy their homes? Do you build any industry when you take okada out of the road? etc |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by Paentera(m): 12:29pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
cap28: very interesting article about the much praised Fashola, his plans for lagos and their implications for the poor of lagos who make up almost 70% of the population of lagos: One thing - the loans for LASG are development loans payable over a thirty (30) year period and at a rate of 1%. If he didn't do that borrowing today to uplift the infrastructure of the state, one day you'll turn around to blame him for not taking the opportunity when it was available. Stop being alarmist with half told stories. 2 Likes |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 12:38pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
senbonzakura_kageyoshi:i cannot grasp your "core " points so i only have to say that if the Lagos Goverment and other goverments carry out true mass development policies the hawkers,slums,okada riders and others will take care of themselves. At this moment i refuse to see how your so called goverment is taking care of those group mentioned above. |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 12:43pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
modupea:you don't agree with me on that the Government enforce market boundaries or that there should be a market space to service each community ? What is your point ? |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 12:48pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
llljoseph1: I totally agreed with you my dear. It’s good to transform Lagos but you have to consider lots of things. How many low cost houses have the government build for displaced poor when you destroy their homes? Do you build any industry when you take okada out of the road? etcI have asked same question several times but none would want to answer rather they continue going round and round calling up irrelevant situations and scenarios to justify their horridous claim that " Our citizens can survive on beautiful gardens,flowered sidewalks and fountains" |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 12:50pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
Paentera: |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by Symphony007: 12:51pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
I have said it and will continue! You can't build a mega city of lagos on the back of the poor. Fashola is doing great making lagos beautifull. Roads,bridges,flowers,etc. But where is the humanitarian development? Rivers state might not be perfect infastructurally but it educational system is the best in nigeria. Every thing ranging from uniforms,bags,sandals, and even lunch is free. Parents who don't send their kids to school are presecuted. Their is a range of schemes supporting small buisness and the largest overseas scholarship scheme in nigeria. If fashola really wants to crown his achievements in lagos he should help the poor rather than trying to push them to the obsurity of his beautifull mega city cause frankly they're going no where. 1 Like |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by sucess001(m): 12:53pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
thoth: What these people never do is to investigate the history of nations that has passed through this evil process we are going through and see how they ended up. Er...exacctly what are you trying so hard to say? |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by senbonzakurakageyoshi(m): 12:53pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
thoth:[quote author=thoth] And what is the FG's responsibility in all this? We are not practicing true federalism, yet you expect so much of the state government? The FG arrogated so much responsibility to itself and yet does nada as regards handling those responsibilities. The roads people complain about most are interstate roads, the responsibility of the FG. State schools in Lagos have had a face lift and look just as good as, if not better than their private counterparts, while the Federal schools are looking as decripit as ever. The policies that would empower the poor should be formulated and passed by the FG with the SG playing a support role (at least, in this funny federalism we are practicing). You talk about minimum wage...was it the set by the SG or the FG? Besides, the Lagos state governemnt has enpugh things to expend on...increasing the wages of its workers would mean more borrowing. What Fashola is creating is a conducive and enabling environment, something that will attract investment in the state. If more investment comes into the state, the masses will benefit from it, including the poor. 1 Like |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by omiobo: 12:55pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
thoth: I see him as a good man. |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 12:55pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
Paentera:where did they borrow from ? Please list the financial institutions that lends them . I will give you information that will shock if you can provide this information. Try as much as you can to get the CONDITIONS ON WHICH THOSE LOANS WERE GIVEN. That is the part that your government would never let the public know about but lets stop here for the moment. 1 Like |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 12:59pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
Symphony007: I have said it and will continue! You can't build a mega city of lagos on the back of the poor. Fashola is doing great making lagos beautifull. Roads,bridges,flowers,etc. But where is the humanitarian development? Rivers state might not be perfect infastructurally but it educational system is the best in nigeria. Every thing ranging from uniforms,bags,sandals, and even lunch is free. Parents who don't send their kids to school are presecuted. Their is a range of schemes supporting small buisness and the largest overseas scholarship scheme in nigeria. If fashola really wants to crown his achievements in lagos he should help the poor rather than trying to push them to the obsurity of his beautifull mega city cause frankly they're going no where.thank you very much, you gave very good examples of the least he can do. 1 Like |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by ba7man(m): 1:02pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
Nice contributions from both sides.... |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by luvinhubby(m): 1:06pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
Govt. policies ought to empower & not impoverish the vulnerable in the society, when you turn public schools elitist by huge fees, you impoverish the poor, why must i school elsewhere when l live in Lagos. 1 Like |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 1:14pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
[quote author=senbonzakura_kageyoshi][/quote] You should not leave our domain of discussion and hop into an entirely different zone. Federalism or No Federalism is not cause of the issue we are trying to discuss, Here we are trying illustrate what our current system of Government is doing WRONG. If it is meant to work then why is it not working and i can tell you that federalism or not has no bearing in it. What is expected of the State is solely the responsibility of the State so lets leave the Federal Goverment and its flaws out of this. The federal allocations given to the state is meant to EMPOWER them as much as it can and not meant to IMPOVERISH them and bring more hardship as it is doing now. Federal goverment set the minimum wage and the state government should assist the citizens to make maximum use of that minimum wage and not tax all of out of them. |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by senbonzakurakageyoshi(m): 1:20pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
Symphony007: I have said it and will continue! You can't build a mega city of lagos on the back of the poor. Fashola is doing great making lagos beautifull. Roads,bridges,flowers,etc. But where is the humanitarian development? Rivers state might not be perfect infastructurally but it educational system is the best in nigeria. Every thing ranging from uniforms,bags,sandals, and even lunch is free. Parents who don't send their kids to school are presecuted. Their is a range of schemes supporting small buisness and the largest overseas scholarship scheme in nigeria. If fashola really wants to crown his achievements in lagos he should help the poor rather than trying to push them to the obsurity of his beautifull mega city cause frankly they're going no where. At the risk of sounding elitist, i'll say let the poor move to rivers state in that case. Funny thing is, most of you guys complaining are not from Lagos state. If other state governors are doing their jobs so well, why are people still trooping into Lagos state? You guys fail to state the FG's responsibility, or the responsibilities of the state governments of over half the people that reside in Lagos state, but when it comes to bashing the LSG, you become champions. Other state governments borrow money....and we can't see even flowers and gardens to show for it! Look, not all states have to do things the same way...the Lagos state governemnt has decided which way it wants the state to follow....anyone that says they can't see what the LSG is doing, either the worst lier in history or incredibly sense. 1 Like |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by mapet: 1:21pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
My tots exactly. It is a crying shame that the intelligence of the composer(s) of the article is really not up to scratch to creditably offer a challenge in terms of opposition criticism. The obvious lack of objectivity in the write-up is appalling....[/quote] |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by luvinhubby(m): 1:24pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
When we borrow to build we mortgage the furure of our children, when we sell public utilities to foreign, private firms, we reduce the value of our people, MEGA CITIES ARE BUILT BY MEGA PEOPLE, not capitalist institutions that are out to maximise profits at whatever cost. What Fashola shud do first as a step to build a mega city is introduce empowerment schemes & welfare packages, soft-loans, micro-credit schemes, low interest revolving loans among established coperatives and unions etc. This way you build a people that can be taxed to build the mega city. 2 Likes |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by mapet: 1:28pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
1. You're quite right. 2. If government continues to provide houses, it will largely get into the hands of those who can pay for them (these people have one or more houses in the first place. 3. On what basis will a government provide house for someone just because he "found his way to Lagos and is currently hustling" or because "he's poor". 4. I really love your suggestion and I think Fashola government is currently working the procedure of such a long term loan facilities. I think it can be taken further to a level where government identify some proven developers, jointly secures loan facilities for these developers to build massive low cost flats/estates. These can then be allocated to registerd Lagosians, who are tax paying and track record to have worked and lived in Lagos for a number of years....... even with this done, tell me how the supposedly "the poor" as painted in the article will qualify Sibrah: Talking about Government providing houses, i don't exactly agree with that idea, what i expect the Lagos state government to do is provide low interest, long term Loans targeted at estate developers. This should reduce the cost burden developers usually try to offload to their clients within short periods and make housing lucrative for developer and affordable to clients as well. |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 1:33pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
senbonzakura_kageyoshi:A strange characteristic with the way people of your kind talks is that they always put things as if the Lagos state Government is a different entity with its own mind and interest and the Lagos State residents are an entirely different entity with their own interest and mind, so therefore Lagos state goverment has chosen "its way" let the Lagos state residents(supposedly another group) fend for themselves or if nothing at all jump into the lagoon. The lagos state government has its own way and its own interest to serve(elite interests maybe) and the peoples interest should be served by who ? Who are the Goverment and who are the people ? Can you seperate the Governmment from the people ? Quite appaling !! 1 Like |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 1:36pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
luvinhubby: When we borrow to build we mortgage the furure of our children, when we sell public utilities to foreign, private firms, we reduce the value of our people, MEGA CITIES ARE BUILT BY MEGA PEOPLE, not capitalist institutions that are out to maximise profits at whatever cost.Exactly! When he does all that there would be a larger middle class which can be taxed to build more infrastructures. At the moment he is eliminating the middle class by pushing more into poverty. |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by mapet: 1:37pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
@ emiye, 1. You beat me to this...though I'll have been harsher. 2. A minimum wage earner with an eligible ward for a University, has not other alternative but to look for additional means of generating income, if he truly wishes to send that ward to a Univerisity. What is critical is over 60% of the minimum wage cannot even feed both the single parent and the ward, so let's quit kidding ourselves 3. The so called "children of the poor" denied a chance of admission into the university itself is questionable. Even in developed countries, having a degree is no mean feat. We have parents that had put themselves through over 15years of aggressive savings so that their children can go to a Uni. 4. The sustainability of many of these Nigerian Universities, without ridiculous funding is a joke. Funding education and research is expensive and if we don't want to continue to churn out "unemployable graduates" we'd better get serious 5. You need not tell that family planning is the way to go, it is even stupid to raise kids you can't cater for. This is were "the poor" are skilled. The middle/high class keep the number of their kids to 2-3, and easily give them the best, the low class churns them out like litter of piglets.....and later lament when harsh realities come. emiye: |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by mapet: 1:38pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
The answer is simple. Lagos State government has announced the decision to make LASU autonomous (or Semi); meaning that it becomes self sustaining. luvinhubby: I've always asked why the fees for the only university owned by Lagos state govt was jerked from N25,000 to N250,000 & nobody has explained it till now. |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by baron2000(m): 1:40pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
cap28: very interesting article about the much praised Fashola, his plans for lagos and their implications for the poor of lagos who make up almost 70% of the population of lagos: |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by mapet: 1:41pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
The new fees is for fresh intakes only and not everyone, that's the truth the anti-fashola will continually ignore. emiye: |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by mapet: 1:44pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
Your sister was once a VC and told you that income from school fees alone can build the infrastructure 1. That is damn ridiculous. 2. Either you're ignorant, economical with the truth or someone ran a mushroom administration. 3. Even notable universities in the world still rely on subventions, money from the institution foundations, private sector investments and support and government support. thoth: 1 Like |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by cap28: 1:45pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
[quote author=baron2000][/quote] this topic is for people who can read and comprehend english and not dim witted high school drop outs. Kindly get your reading and comprehension ability up to scratch before responding to posts you don't understand. thanks 1 Like |
Re: Lagos: Mega City Or Mega Madness? by thoth: 1:46pm On Jan 21, 2013 |
mapet: 1. You're quite right.Government providing AFFORDABLE HOUSING does not mean giving FREE accomodation and it does not mean building a scanty bungalow and selling if for 30 million naira. Don't confuse the way civilised governments do things with the bad policies we are accustomed to. Read up on what affordable housing means and how many nations with success stories have done theirs. 1 Like |
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