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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs (31901 Views)
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Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by Nobody: 10:01pm On Feb 07, 2013 |
Are some Nigerians from the Middle-East? |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by ghostofsparta(m): 12:10am On Feb 08, 2013 |
all4naija: Are some Nigerians from the Middle-East? It seems so, the likes of seunajia, maclatunji and justadaq, etc are happy to link their ancestors to the middle east. Even White Europeans don't trace their links to Israel, much less Black Africans. imagine seunajia saying "according to Yoruba oral tradition, the Yorubas emigrated from Mecca. You have a problem with that?" Can he quote an Ifa passage (odu) to support his 'mecca theory' claim? Eni to ba pa iro, yo ja ole(A habitual liar will end up a thief) Eni to ba ja ole, ko ni oju ti(A thief has no shame) Eni ti ko ni oju ti, yi o pa eniyan(A shameless person will commit murder) 1 Like |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by BetaThings: 6:08am On Feb 08, 2013 |
ghostofsparta: There have been Chinese Budhists that converted to Christianity or Islam. I have even posted one here in one of the previous pages |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by justaqad(m): 6:57am On Feb 08, 2013 |
Anvaller: well said.. couldn't have said better |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 8:14am On Feb 08, 2013 |
ghostofsparta: Stop being finicky man. I already explained earlier that my religion and my origin are two mutually exclusive things. Is it now wrong for a Yoruba man to be a muslim? There are three accounts to the origin of the Yorubas according to the Yoruba oral tradition. All these I learnt from home and also school. Every true Yoruba man is aware of atleast two of these accounts. The first account is strictly oral tradition. Lamurudu is the father of Yoruba, a tradition religionist who lived in Mecca (some have said it's Sudan, but I learnt Mecca in school). Lamurudu's son Oduduwa fled from Mecca to Ile-Ife as a result of religious issues and persecution. He brought with him the Ifa religion and started a new dynasty. The Ifa religion is still enshrined in Yorubaland today. Oduduwa begot an only son Okanbi who had 7 children (Omo meje Okanbi): Oranmiyan, Onipopo ti Popo (Benin republic), Onisabe ti Sabe (Benin republic), Orangun Ile-Ila, Oba Ibini (Benin), Alaketu ti Ketu and Olowu of Owu. The second is based on Yoruba Mythology. This tradition speaks of the ‘the beginning of time’ probably the pluvial period when Eledumare (Supreme Being) sent messengers (immortals) to the surface of the earth to create the world. At the head of this party was Obatala. The myth tells of God lowering a chain at Ile-Ife, down which they came with Oduduwa, the ancestor of all people. In his possession were lump of sand and a chicken with which they were to create the world. Before his landing, the lump of sand was set down, and, chicken was placed to spread the sand. Thus began the creation of the world from Ile-Ife where the immortals landed. The third account is that of sayensi (science). I can't recall this, sadly. Here is a link from Wikipedia which gives some semblance of authenticity to what was passed down through oral tradition. I lean more to what was passed down by my ancestors though. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oduduwa |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by BetaThings: 8:30am On Feb 08, 2013 |
ghostofsparta: In other words, everyone who dresses indecently, or more appropriately, who engages in se.xua.lly explicit acts for public viewing is a potential murderer I also believe that some people actually lie to avoid shame Some of these aphorisms can indeed be misleading |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 9:45am On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: those are ot pure Han Chinese. those muslims are Uyghurs who are half-bred arabs, tajiks, mongols , persians and han, who mixed and itermarriedd during the SIlk ROad Trade Route in the medieval times. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 9:55am On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: what religion dide he follow there? Pre-islamic Arab Traditional Religion?
The above 2 are possible. The first account is not to be taken literally as os obvious. it has a double meaning. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 9:56am On Feb 08, 2013 |
BetaThings: stop taking things literally. you spoil the essence! |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 10:38am On Feb 08, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: I'm not referring to the Uyghurs. The Uyghurs do not obvious speak Mandarin. They have their Turkic language. The Huizhou people also known as the Hui, are Chinese people who speak Chinese (Mandarin). Now the Uyghurs; whether or not they are original chinese; are Chinese. They have been there over 1400 years! How dare anyone say they are not Chinese? Pure ko pure ni. lol Even the Americans are yet to spend 1400years in America. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 10:54am On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: Hui muslims are also mixed between Persian/Arab Khwarezmi traders and HAn, etc. , Chinese. ofc They are not Chinese. CHina was formed barely 70 years ago! |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 11:03am On Feb 08, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: Yes sir! There is evidence to that. For example they were 365 days and 365 gods in pre-Islamic Arabia. The Yorubas too had/have 365 deities worshiped each day. According to what I heard, people used to have tribal marks in old Arabia too. Infact, the Sudanese still have the same Ijebu/oyo tribal marks till date. Also, there is this way of wrapping an iro (wrapper) around yourself, in Yoruba it is called "Pakaja". It was a common place in the Arabia of old and even that of today. For example the Hiram dressing by Al-hajs. Etc. Where are the historians in the house? The Yoruba oral tradition is subject to a lot of debate as with all oral histories. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 11:14am On Feb 08, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: Bros this your logic is very funny gan o. You mean after spending over 1400 years old (lol) they are not still Chinese? In your books the AAs sef are not Americans since they have mixed blood too and the Jewish-Americans too, the Hispanics, infact the whole world sef China is 70years old? Epic! en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki Timeline_of_Chinese_history |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 11:47am On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: why does this so called evidence not prove that the Arabians migrated from Yorubaland 2 Likes |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 11:53am On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: can you name all the 365 Yoruba Gods? None of the Arab tribals have tribal markings. only mixed (AL Mahrah) Sudanese Arabs have tribal marks due to close proximity with Africans. Turbans are worn everywhere, from Africa to India and as far as Malaysia and Indonesia. this is no justification. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 11:55am On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: My point is CHina is 70 years old. it didnt exist before that. There were many lesser Kingdoms, warlords ,etc. in the end, it all comes down to ethnicity. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 11:55am On Feb 08, 2013 |
Aribisala |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 12:07pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: Aribisala seunaija |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 12:08pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: Manasir The Manasir people (Arabic: ﺍﻟﻤﻨﺎﺻﻴﺮ) constitute one of many Sunni Arab riverine tribes of Northern Sudan. They are not to be confused with the Al Manaseer of the Gulf region in the Arabian Peninsula based mainly in the United Arab Emirates. They inhabit the region of the Fourth Cataract of the Nile and call their homeland Dar al-Manasir. Similar to their neighbouring tribes, the upstream Rubatab (ﺍﻟﺮﺑﺎﻃﺎﺏ) and the downstream Shaiqiyah (ﺍﻟﺸﺎﻳﻘﻴﺔ), the Manasir are indigenous nile culture who adapted Islam and became Arabic speakers. Unlike other riverain tribes of the Sudan a considerable part of their population actually lives as Bedouins in the adjacent Bayudah Desert. The nomadic life of herding their stock of goats, sheep and camels in desert valleys is however limited for many to the rainy season, coinciding with the annual inundation of the Nile. Origin Similar to other Arab tribes, the people trace their origins back to one historical ancestor. According to the current oral tradition of many Manasir this person is called Mansur and belongs to the line of descendants of al-'Abbas, the uncle of Muhammad. Tribal marks Like other tribes in Sudan, most Manasir of the grown-up generations have tribal marks (Shilukh, ﺍﻟﺸﻠﻮﺥ) which possibly originate from a Sheikh's animal burning mark (Wasm, ﻭﺳﻢ). The tribal marks are cut with a razor on the cheeks of a child to mark it belonging to a specific tribe. Among the Donqolawi and the Shaiqiya these marks usually consist of three horizontal scars, among the Rubatab and the Ga'aliin the lines are vertical, the scars in the case of the Rubatab being rather larger and closer together (cf. CROWFOOT 131-132). The Manasir do not have a unique design of tribal marks, but copy either the upstream or downstream neighbouring tribes. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manasir Turban is not Pakaja. I don't know what it's called in English. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 12:10pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
aribisala0: I won't lick your a.rse, but that question is unlike you. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 12:26pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia:I take it you are thinking aloud and NOT trying to communicate with me as your words are indecipherable |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 12:27pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: sorry i meant MANASIR not MAHRA, i admit my mistake. i couldnt remember the name so i got confused between the two. infact this further proves my claim. The Manasir have many cusutms similiar to the Beja and their burials are similar to Nubians. they are not pure Arabs if Arabs at all. probably an arabized Nubian offshoot. They dont even look Arab. They are Nile indigenes. The Arabs dont wear Pakaja. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 12:40pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
aribisala0: I wouldn't think you would ask this. Anyway that's what the evidence says. I don't suppose you don't know the history of the Arabs, but here you have it. www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/31568/history-of-Arabia |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 12:52pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA: The link I posted tells you everything. Which other tribe from Yorubaland towards the East to Arabia has such distinctive tribal marks? According to the current oral tradition of many Manasir this person is called Mansur and belongs to the line of descendants of al-'Abbas, the uncle of Muhammad. Arabs don't Pakaja?
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Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 1:31pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia:Do you know me to know how I think? "THE EVIDENCE" ? such an arrogant phrase and all you have to offer is an encyclopaedic entry. Anyway I ask questions when I do not know or when there is no satifactory explanation. That is my style. I do not pretend to have knowledge that I do not have.I responded directly to what is reproduced below seunajia: You state that The above is evidence that the Yorubas came from Arabia and I question why it is not evidence that the Arabians came from Africa. This is a question of the logic of your reasoning and deduction in interpreting the above. It does not need and is not further butresssed by any more entries. I have not even offered any opinion. Just asking that ; in observing the same tribal marks in the two we MUST conclude that Yorubas came from there and Not the other way round. Or even that they both came from another(the same) place not known Why must we draw that particular inference that you seem to prefer. This is a matter of logic and the mechanics of thinking. So your Additional encyclopaedia entry is tangential and not helpful. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 2:12pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
aribisala0: Looool. I brought up "The evidence" to back up my post on the origin of the Yoruba according to oral tradition that states the Yorubas came from Mecca. The Yorubas are making/made the claim. Thus I didn't expect to be asked such a question or be asked to explain why the "so called evidence not prove that the Arabians migrated from Yorubaland" |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 3:01pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: "The Yorubas are making" the claim or some Yorubas make the claim ? There is a huge difference between the two. Do they make other claims as well. or is it just Mecca. As far as I know they have always claimed to come from the "East" and this has been interpreted in several ways. Are there not other general claims that ALL humanity originated in Africa.? How do we juxtapose all these? Why not cite as evidence the fact that the Yorubas give themselves names or cook their food with fire or bury their dead in the ground as evidence of Arabian origin since Arabians do the same? Does coming from Mecca mean the same thing as Being of Arabian Origin? Are Arabians the only ones or the first to live in Mecca.? Take some time to think about what you say. Always there is so much we do not know compared to what we know and that should remain a source of intellectual humility 1 Like |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 3:15pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
aribisala0: Really? The story of Lamurudu is oral tradition, I didn't manufacture it and clearly stated this. There are three accounts to the origin of the Yorubas according to the Yoruba oral tradition. All these I learnt from home and also school. Every true Yoruba man is aware of atleast two of these accounts. If you are interested in knowing why they don't bury their dead in one way or why they don't eat a particular kind of food, please you're a Yoruba man do the research and post it here on NL let's learn from you. This is what I learnt/know. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 3:29pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
seunajia: No one said the story of Lamurudu is a musical one nor that you made it up However there are so many versions and other conflicting stories that do not recognize Lamurudu at all. In fact the preeminent Yoruba tradition or Ifa Tradition is that Life started at Ile-Ife for anyone to insist it(Lamurudu tradition) constitutes "evidence" is disingenuous if I am to be polite You mentioned aspects of human anthropology that are universal to Africa e.g Tribal marks as evidence of Arabian origin when this is clearly bogus. There is no ONE form of Tribal mark that is uniquely Yoruba in the first place and there are great similarities with many non-Yoruba neighbours in Nigeria without having to look to Sudan or Mecca.Allthe early bronze castings unearthed by archaeologists which date to the 1st century AD showcase a range of marks many of which are not around today. So I take it you have nothing more to offer but breezy bluster which is fine because I shall not respond to you any more. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by Nobody: 3:55pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
PAGAN 9JA:Seriously, tribes in Nigeria have indentity problem. From Igbo people claiming to be Jews to Yorubas claiming to be similar to Arabs. |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 4:01pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
aribisala0: Typical! Do I also expect that you turn it into a "Yo momma" contest? Yes. However there are so many versions and other conflicting stories that do not recognize Lamurudu at all. In fact the preeminent Yoruba tradition or Ifa Tradition is that Life started at Ile-Ife for anyone to insist it(Lamurudu tradition) constitutes "evidence" is disingenuous if I am to be polite Whose fact? What evidence? You mentioned aspects of human anthropology that are universal to Africa e.g Tribal marks as evidence of Arabian origin when this is clearly bogus. Again, I met this claim on earth. But Please Aribisala, enlighten me. Name the neighbors who have the same type of tribal marks?
The people just stopped drawing marks on themselves? How come the Yorubas still have some people with marks? So I really should stop now because I know what's coming next. Curses, especially Yo momma and Poppa ones. I don't play like that Have a nice day sir! |
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 4:31pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
BTW, this is a similar account by the Ajase Ipos. I hope they are not making "bogus" claims too? YORUBA IN NIGERIA IGBOMINA Yorubas migrated to Ife-land (Nigeria) from around Saudi Arabia and North West Africa through Bornu, Hausa-land and finally settled at Ile-Ife in the |
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