Re: Are Aworis And Eguns Yoruba? by Negro_
Ntns(m): 11:08pm On Feb 12, 2009
Dayo, I agree with your response.
Osisi,
The etymology of the name "Yoruba" can be traced to the Arabic or Arhamaic language. I am not too good in referencing posts, I would have referred to you the post in which I discussed your question. Let's look at Yoruba and the believed founder of the tribe, Lamurudu.

The word Yoruba was used to refer to a people that emigrated from an Arab culture. As you head North and encounter different languages it's pronounciation gets closer to "Ya Arab". Ya Arab stand for the "Children of Arab" or "People of Arab" or "Descent of Arab".
The Hausas call Yoruba "Bayarabe". They call Arabs, "Balarabe" . Sometimes they will say "Yarabawa" for Yoruba and "Larabawa" for Arab. Who were the Arabs at the time of Lamurudu arriving in Ife? They were idol worshippers who believed in gods. Lamurudu brought that tradition to Ife and instituted it as the religion of the Yorubas. The Arab land covered all along the eastern edge of Africa to the horn by Somalia and into Yemen and up into what today is Saudi Arabia. Lamurudu was an Arab of Axum descent. Axum was in what is now Ethiopia. Yorubas are not the only Arabian migrants to current Nigeria. The Shuwa Arabs are too. They are found in Adamawa and Borno and they are of Sudan descent. To explain Lamurudu (Oduduwa's father), let's look at two names; Abdul Hamid and Al Amin. When pronounced in Yoruba, the first becomes Lamidi and the second Lamina. There are people today in Yorubaland called Lamidi and Lamina and if you tell them its correctly spelled Abdul Hamid and Al Amin they will dispute it. Using this analogy, Lamurudu would be something like Al Marud. Lamurudu has no translation in Yoruba language, it is widely acknowledged that its a foreign name.
The story of Lamurudu beaing a man of Eastern origin is true. He emigrated from Ethiopia. Now did every Yoruba emigrated with him and are of Eastern origin? NO!

www.nairaland.com/232437/aworis-eguns-yoruba

Re: Are Aworis And Eguns Yoruba? by Negro_Ntns(m): 4:28pm On Feb 13, 2009
lmao, Bgees, you are right, this is expanding past the original post of Awori and Egun and gaining momentum about origin of Lamurudu and Biblical reference; very interesting!
Dayo, consider this. . .
What language is Nimrod's name written in?
Here is why I asked.
ENGLISH/Hebrew ARABIC
Joseph = Yussuff
David = Dawud
Mary/Marianne = Maryam
Sheba = Bilqis
John = Yahya
Michael = Mikail
Benjamin = Binyamin
Solomon = Sulaiman
is it possible that. . .
Nimrod = Marud ?

Also, you quoted that Cush begat Nimrod. Well, I don't know if Nimrod is the same person as Lamarudu but I know Lamurudu was a Cushite from Axum and knowing that the Cushites descended from Ham, I am led to believe that we are speaking of same person, hunter, farmer, fisherman, or whatever he is. Well, who were the Cushites?
1.
The Cushites, descending from Ham built Axum in Ethiopia, where I mentioned Lamarudu emigrated from. The Cushites included an ethnic group called OROMO and they spoke the oromo language also called oromiffa. There is a obelisk in the courtyard of the Ooni of Ife's spiritual shrine and it was said to have been there since the time of Oranmiyan and is called the staff of Oranmiyan. There are certain things I won't reveal about the staff but I will say this, that staff is the connecting dot between Ife and Axum.
2.
To point to another reference, when a person is obedient and humble our elders will praise them as "Omoluabi". Correctly stated, it is "Omonuabi" or "Omo Nua bi" or 'Omo Noah bi"; meaning the child begotten of Noah but more symbolically to denote the obedient character as a trait from Noah's lineage. But why would idol worshippers who have gods like Shango, Ogun, Oya, Yemoja and so on know of Noah and reverence him? I am yet to find another culture in sub-saharan Africa that does that beside the Yorubas. In sub-saharan Africa, you had to read the Bible or the Quran to know about Noah and this must have either happened when Islam was introduced by Dan Fodio and the Arab traders or when the European missionaries invaded and brought missionaries with them to educate us on Christianity. Yorubas had been using the term "Omoluabi" long before new religions arrived so they had knowledge of Noah from other source. That source was genealogy and spiritual cults.
3.
The rituals of Ifa and that of Islam is parallel. I won't say some things here in reference to Ifa other than to say that when you look at Hajj pilgrimage and the sacrifice of the lamb on Mount Arafat, it is exactly the same ritual steps in Ifa initiation and we knew Ifa before Islam was introduced in Yorubaland. So where is the connection from? It had to date back to shrine rituals in the Arab customs and would give credence to the fact that Yorubas are in fact Ya Arabs. Just remember that it was a total different Arab back then than the one you have today.

A link from the same thread. http://www.africastyles.com/blackhistory/
yoruba_history2.html

It's okay to be smart, but stop being condescending!

PAGAN 9JA:



stop taking things literally. you spoil the essence!

I disagree. It is a straw man argument to impeach his moral standpoint
Otherwise, tell us a possible metaphorical meaning of that aphorism

seunajia:

The link I posted tells you everything. Which other tribe from Yorubaland towards the East to Arabia has such distinctive tribal marks?

The Mahra are not located in Arabia. There are many tribes in that region. why dont they all have tribal marks?
also did you notice the names o the sub-clans? for e.g., Dongolawi, similar to Dangala, is a very Nubian name and a name of a real Nubian clan from the region of Dongola, upper Nile. im pretty sure they are of Nubian descent, even going by their looks and customs and their close proximity to the Nile river, the lifesourc of Nubian peoples.

Arabs don't Pakaja?

ahahhahahaha i knew you were an islamist from the very begining. thus i marked you immediately as aforger of lies.

That is the dress worn by muslims during Haj.




^there. i just proved that Yorubas are descended from Ancient Tibetans. they escaped form Tibet to avoid religiosu persecution and Orisha worship and because Tibet was too cold for them.

the proof is the Pakaja worn by this Dalai Lama.

seunajia:

I wouldn't think you would ask this. Anyway that's what the evidence says. I don't suppose you don't know the history of the Arabs, but here you have it. www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/31568/history-of-Arabia

so you believe in Ancient Arab history but not in Nok Civilization , the percussor of Yoruba Civilization?

you are a slave. this is my final conclusion.

BetaThings:
I disagree. It is a straw man argument to impeach his moral standpoint
Otherwise, tell us a possible metaphorical meaning of that aphorism

I am not Yoruba so this will remain disputed. however i shall research into the matter.

PAGAN 9JA:


ahahhahahaha i knew you were an islamist from the very begining. thus i marked you immediately as aforger of lies.

That is the dress worn by muslims during Haj.

Your statement is unduly harsh!
Who is an Islamist?
People who practise Islam call themselves Muslims
We don't people who practise Christianity Christianists
Neither do we call you "Paganists"

BTW if he calls the Ihram dress a traditional attire, is forgery the only explanation?
Can he not be mistaken?
What other lies have muslims forged for you to have marked him as a "forger"?

PAGAN 9JA:



The Mahra are not located in Arabia. There are many tribes in that region. why dont they all have tribal marks?



ahahhahahaha i knew you were an islamist from the very begining. thus i marked you immediately as aforger of lies.

That is the dress worn by muslims during Haj.




^there. i just proved that Yorubas are descended from Ancient Tibetans. they escaped form Tibet to avoid religiosu persecution and Orisha worship and because Tibet was too cold for them.

the proof is the Pakaja worn by this Dalai Lama.

From China is 70 years to Mahra? Didn't you read this at-all?

seunajia:

Manasir
The Manasir people (Arabic: ﺍﻟﻤﻨﺎﺻﻴﺮ) constitute one of many Sunni Arab riverine tribes of Northern Sudan. They are not to be confused with the Al Manaseer of the Gulf region in the
Arabian Peninsula based mainly in the United Arab Emirates. They inhabit the region of the Fourth Cataract of the Nile and call their homeland Dar al-Manasir. Similar to their neighbouring tribes, the upstream Rubatab
(ﺍﻟﺮﺑﺎﻃﺎﺏ) and the downstream Shaiqiyah
(ﺍﻟﺸﺎﻳﻘﻴﺔ), the Manasir are indigenous nile
culture who adapted Islam and became Arabic speakers. Unlike other riverain tribes of the Sudan a considerable part of their population actually lives as Bedouins in the adjacent Bayudah Desert. The nomadic life of herding their stock of goats, sheep and camels in desert valleys is however limited for many to the rainy season, coinciding with the annual inundation of the Nile. Origin Similar to other Arab tribes, the people trace their origins back to one historical ancestor. According to the current oral tradition of many Manasir this person is called Mansur and belongs to the line of descendants of al-'Abbas, the
uncle of Muhammad .

Tribal marks
Like other tribes in Sudan, most Manasir of the grown-up generations have tribal marks (Shilukh, ﺍﻟﺸﻠﻮﺥ) which possibly originate from a Sheikh's animal burning mark (Wasm, ﻭﺳﻢ). The tribal marks are cut with a razor on the cheeks of a child to mark it belonging to a specific tribe.
Among the Donqolawi and the Shaiqiya these marks usually consist of three horizontal scars, among the Rubatab and the Ga'aliin the lines are vertical, the scars in the case of the Rubatab
being rather larger and closer together (cf. CROWFOOT 131-132). The Manasir do not have a unique design of tribal marks, but copy either the upstream or downstream neighbouring tribes.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manasir

Turban is not Pakaja. I don't know what it's called in English.

Please read through and don't draw us back. Where you go before?

PAGAN 9JA:


so you believe in Ancient Arab history but not in Nok Civilization , the percussor of Yoruba Civilization?

you are a slave. this is my final conclusion.

Where did you get that from?

I told you where I got all these things from including the Pakaja thing. With all sincerity, as with all oral histories some of it may be distorted.
Does that warrant the name-calling?

That I have been discussing ancient Arab history which oral tradition says is my origin as a Yoruba man gives you the right to call me a slave?

One would have expected that you'll dispute the oral tradition by saying you were there instead of calling me names.

Islamist, Slave. Why? Because we're having a debate?

BetaThings:
Your statement is unduly harsh!
Who is an Islamist?
People who practise Islam call themselves Muslims
We don't people who practise Christianity Christianists
Neither do we call you "Paganists"

BTW if he calls the Ihram dress a traditional attire, is forgery the only explanation?
Can he not be mistaken?
What other lies have muslims forged for you to have marked him as a "forger"?

Could you believe that? I stated explicitly that I learnt some of these things at home and others from school. I posted links to corroborate some of these things. And even went on to admit that oral traditions are subject to distortion.

The Pakaja is not a concrete evidence let's scratch that. Does that warrant name calling? "Islamist, forger of lies". What of my other points? All these characters one gets to meet on cyberspace.

seunajia:

Looool.

I brought up "The evidence" to back up my post on the origin of the Yoruba according to oral tradition that states the Yorubas came from Mecca. The Yorubas are making/made the claim. Thus I didn't expect to be asked such a question or be asked to explain why the "so called evidence not prove that the Arabians migrated from Yorubaland"

The oral tradtition you keep hammering on is IFA, and there's no passage in Ifa that acknowledges Arabia/mecca muchless of the Odua people coming from Mecca. As a matter of fact IFA states that all homo-sapiens spreaded from otu-ife. Like I said:

The idea that Yorubas emigrated from mecca is a fallacy crafted by Yoruba Islamists spin doctors who by distorting the genuine origin of the Yorubas hence re-planting it in semitic root knowing not only would such spurious lies appeal to Yoruba muslims converts who will not only be glad to welcome the thoughts of his Yoruba ancestors having ancient linkage with the Arabs but also for the purpose of having it disseminated to the rest of the non-muslims Yorubas and christians.

all4naija: Seriously, tribes in Nigeria have indentity problem. From Igbo people claiming to be Jews to Yorubas claiming to be similar to Arabs.

A true and genuine Yoruba would never claim his ancestors were from Arabs. There's no connection except for the mouth.

ghostofsparta:

A true and genuine Yoruba would never claim his ancestors were from Arabs. There's no connection except for the mouth.

That I agree with from personal contact with Yoruba people and family members. But, what I am seeing here from people's comment seem to be different.

BetaThings:
Your statement is unduly harsh!
Who is an Islamist?
People who practise Islam call themselves Muslims
We don't people who practise Christianity Christianists
Neither do we call you "Paganists"

BTW if he calls the Ihram dress a traditional attire, is forgery the only explanation?
Can he not be mistaken?
What other lies have muslims forged for you to have marked him as a "forger"?

islamists or muslims, what does it matter. The fact of the matter is, ask yourself why Paganist, does not hold a negative connotation when compared to islamist?

in case you noticed, the entire quraan is forged, copied and filled with lies. so obviusly whenever i see a muslim talking about history and especially Pagan history, i know he will lie to justify the jewish and islamic tales and claim their racial superiority. and 99% this is ALWAYS the case.

BetaThings:
I disagree. It is a straw man argument to impeach his moral standpoint
Otherwise, tell us a possible metaphorical meaning of that aphorism

That adage is no metaphor nor aphoristic
The true meaning is within the context of a specific situation
He would lie would steal. Is an armed robber not a liar, some thieving politicians do lie.
Religionists lie about prophecies and miracle yet they steal through service-payment, tithing, offerings and other means

seunajia:

From China is 70 years to Mahra? Didn't you read this at-all?



Please read through and don't draw us back. Where you go before?

China is 70 yrs old approx, because the Republic of China comprising all the provinces and Tibet is a recent invention. Before that there was no 1 UNIFIED China as seen today. there were just many provinces ruled by warlords, the Emperor of Manchuria,etc., and different Ethnic groups governing their own separate regions.

as to the Mahra, i already admited it is a verbal mistake incase you noticed.

as to the oral traditions of the Manasir , i dont care for them. people are natural liars. so many islamized ethnic people claim Arab descent. my own Hausa people claim descet from PErsians! cnay ou jsut imagine how messed up that theory is. Persians, a race of Indo-Aryans, will all of a sudden leave their lands,etc and come and settle in West Africa. it is so bullsh!T.

PAGAN 9JA:

ahahhahahaha i knew you were an islamist from the very begining. thus i marked you immediately as aforger of lies.

That is the dress worn by muslims during Haj.




^there. i just proved that Yorubas are descended from Ancient Tibetans. they escaped form Tibet to avoid religiosu persecution and Orisha worship and because Tibet was too cold for them.

the proof is the Pakaja worn by this Dalai Lama.

Excellent point Pagan9JA, let seunajia and justadaq disprove the claim that the Yorubas are from ancient tibet due to the 'pakaja' connection.

Justadaq and seunajia are more than a forger of lies, and there are millions of them in Yorubaland disseminating falsehoods as there are thousands of them here on Nairaland. They know themselves. They easily give themselves out the moment they start acknowledging and praising Arabic things in the guise of bearing Yoruba name.

seunajia:

Where did you get that from?

I told you where I got all these things from including the Pakaja thing. With all sincerity, as with all oral histories some of it may be distorted.
Does that warrant the name-calling?

That I have been discussing ancient Arab history which oral tradition says is my origin as a Yoruba man gives you the right to call me a slave?

One would have expected that you'll dispute the oral tradition by saying you were there instead of calling me names.

Islamist, Slave. Why? Because we're having a debate?

Historians believe that Yorubas aredescendeed from the Nok civilization while you believe Yorubas are descended from Arabs. i wonder which one is more believable. .

Yes it does give me a right to call your slave. the way you have been fighting for an Arab ancestry shows clearly how much you want to associate yourself and you are fighting for it time and again even after being proven otherwise, and is supose you will continue to do so. .

ghostofsparta:

Excellent point Pagan9JA, let justadaq disprove the claim that the Yorubas are from ancient tibet due to the 'pakaja' connection.

Justadaq is more than a forger of lies, and there are millions of them in Yorubaland disseminating falsehoods as there are thousands of them here on Nairaland. They know themselves. They easily give themselves out the moment they start acknowledging and praising Arabic things in the guise of bearing Yoruba name.

oh so justadaq is seunaija i must admit that is a bit dissapointing. i had high hopes for him .

PAGAN 9JA:


so you believe in Ancient Arab history but not in Nok Civilization , the percussor of Yoruba Civilization?

you are a slave. this is my final conclusion.

There's nothing to research on. Ifa is the Odua people's unwritten Bible. Ifa is even undergoing contamination from religionists. They always try to doctor it with their false doctrines. Real Ifa people are able to detect said infections.

seunajia:

Could you believe that? I stated explicitly that I learnt some of these things at home and others from school. I posted links to corroborate some of these things. And even went on to admit that oral traditions are subject to distortion.

The Pakaja is not a concrete evidence let's scratch that. Does that warrant name calling? "Islamist, forger of lies". What of my other points? All these characters one gets to meet on cyberspace.

all your points are invalid. all of them. please change your views.

seunajia:

Where did you get that from?

I told you where I got all these things from including the Pakaja thing. With all sincerity, as with all oral histories some of it may be distorted.
Does that warrant the name-calling?

That I have been discussing ancient Arab history which oral tradition says is my origin as a Yoruba man gives you the right to call me a slave?

One would have expected that you'll dispute the oral tradition by saying you were there instead of calling me names.

Islamist, Slave. Why? Because we're having a debate?

My friend you are indeed a slave to the arab people and religion, even the Arabs wouldn't dare states the almighty Yorubas Oduas came from their desert land. You are a slave by religious indoctrination since child birth, why would you even believe blacks can come from whites when science proves the opposite. Go read Naiwoh Osahon's God Is Black, read about Evolution. And also tell us when has any two caucasians and or semitics ever given birth to a black. You are all &*^%$# SLAVES just like the Yoruba christians in all denominations who believe their first parents were Adam & Eve. You all shouldn't be living here in pagan/black land, Y'all ought to relocate back to Saudi and Israel.

An Islamist is any human who propagates and emphasizes the doctrines of Islam of the Arab people even despite overwhelming contradictory evidence.
A Jew guy formerly called Joseph Cohen renounced secularism to become a conc muslim in Gaza adopting the name Yousef Al-Kahttab is an example of who an islamist is because, the way he was responding to Baba Richard Dawkins in an interview made me wonder how and why someone can substitute his jewish identity for another.

For those who don't know if you renounce Islam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VselUW4Aoxg

PAGAN 9JA:


Historians believe that Yorubas aredescendeed from the Nok civilization while you believe Yorubas are descended from Arabs. i wonder which one is more believable. .

Yes it does give me a right to call your slave. the way you have been fighting for an Arab ancestry shows clearly how much you want to associate yourself and you are fighting for it time and again even after being proven otherwise, and is supose you will continue to do so. .

Even if they were aware of the atrocities the Arabs and Jews did to the black race and are still doing in certain respect, they will still cling to their brainwashings. Classical case of the Stockholm Syndrome

ghostofsparta:

That adage is no metaphor nor aphoristic
The true meaning is within the context of a specific situation
He would lie would steal. Is an armed robber not a liar, some thieving politicians do lie.
Religionists lie about prophecies and miracle yet they steal through service-payment, tithing, offerings and other means

Specific examples don't general rule make. Do you seriously believe that everyone who is prepared to tell his boss that he had a flat tire (when he overslept and got to work late) will actually steal (eg dipping hand in the till)?. I am not talking about stealing the company's time by lying about
the cause of lateness

Those statements hold true for some but not all
Thanks

ghostofsparta: An Islamist is any human who propagates and emphasizes the doctrines of Islam of the Arab people even despite overwhelming contradictory evidence.

your own definition
You are exercising your right to an opinion or a position, despite overwhelming evidence of its incorrectness

ghostofsparta:
A Jew guy formerly called Joseph Cohen renounced secularism to become a conc muslim in Gaza adopting the name Yousef Al-Kahttab is an example of who an islamist is because, the way he was responding to Baba Richard Dawkins in an interview made me wonder how and why someone can substitute his jewish identity for another.

The guy too would wonder why you are not a muslim

ghostofsparta:
For those who don't know if you renounce Islam:

Pastors Tunde Bakare and Ashimolowo are suitably placed to practically explain to you their experience outside Islam
No need for any theoretical debate

ghostofsparta:

Even if they were aware of the atrocities the Arabs and Jews did to the black race and are still doing in certain respect, they will still cling to their brainwashings. Classical case of the Stockholm Syndrome

I believe in general theories rather than one-sided arguments
Tell us the experiences of the black race in their relations with all other races and peoples

PAGAN 9JA:


islamists or muslims, what does it matter. The fact of the matter is, ask yourself why Paganist, does not hold a negative connotation when compared to islamist?

in case you noticed, the entire quraan is forged, copied and filled with lies. so obviusly whenever i see a muslim talking about history and especially Pagan history, i know he will lie to justify the jewish and islamic tales and claim their racial superiority. and 99% this is ALWAYS the case.

So a forgery presenting itself as what? I can talk about a forged dollar ie a dollar presenting itself as one issued by the US Treasury while it is not. So what is the Noble Qur'an passing itself off as?
I don't talk about pagans because it neither adds nor subtracts from my viewpoint
I respect pagans as human beings. But obviously their beliefs are misguided
They will see the light some day

the way you have been fighting for an Arab ancestry shows clearly how much you want to associate yourself and you are fighting for it time and again even after being proven otherwise

middle east doesnt necessarily mean arab when viewed in a historical context. Nobody is fighting for non-existent arab ancestry.

the time and era have to be considered.



tell me, do you doubt the historical legends of kanuri people which link them to southern arabia [yemen]?

ghost of sparta

where are you from? you dont sound yoruba.

Ghostofsparta
Wetin I do you? I have been following your arguments with seunajia closely but not part of it.you don't know my position on yoruba ancestry.

So stop assuming
@pagan9ja high hopes?don't think I will ever leave Islam...

@Ghostofsparta and PAGAN 9JA

Not being conceited, but I should not be caught dead exchanging words with people of your stock. Your comments so far have been unintelligent to say the least. How do argue about something you know nothing of? Whether you are Yoruba or not. Anyway, No thanks, I won't join you boys in the mud.

I have in my possession books and literary works by various authors who dedicated sizable number of years of their lifetimes not just to the study of this very interesting topic but also the origins of other Nigerian ethnicities. The likes of J.O Lucas: "Religion of the Yoruba", P. Amanry Talbot: "The Peoples of Southern Nigerian", Prof. E.A Ayandele(1st VC University of Calabar): "The Ijebu of Yorubaland" and Prof. S.O Biobaku (Former VC Unilag): "A window on Nigeria" and "The origin of the Yoruba".

It's an honor to stand on the shoulders of these giants and I shouldn't be in the midst of those calling them "Islamists", "forgers", "liars", "slaves" e.t.c. Moreso, our current discourse is largely irrelevant to this thread.

Hence, I hereby take my leave of this thread. If time permits, I'll read these books again and author a thread here detailing some of the points in therein, where other civil members shall contribute to the ensuring discourse. Knowledge is power. Have a wonderful life.

tpia@:


middle east doesnt necessarily mean arab when viewed in a historical context. Nobody is fighting for non-existent arab ancestry.

the time and era have to be considered.



tell me, do you doubt the historical legends of kanuri people which link them to southern arabia [yemen]?

ofcourse. that is the most bullsh!t theory ever. there is no recorded migration from there. neither from Kindah or Himyar. Infact after the fall of the Máarib Dam, the tribes migrated northwards towards the Persian GUlf where they still reside/ they had no reason to trek all the way to Nigeria.

the only time Arabs came to West Africa was during the fatimid caliphate to spread islam and get their slaves.