frank3.16:


well, if we are here to xperience free will, the concept of hell makes no sense then, in fact it confuses the whole point u are making. isnt it obvious that pple are already facing the nagative consequences of free will here on earth? how and why did God choose to settle it all with the concept of hell?

InesQor:

In my opinion the concept of hell as is popularly known is not exactly what the Bible says about hell. That's an entirely different discussion, and will derail this thread beyond repair.

cyrexx:

The thread is about love of Yahweh and the topic of hell is among the issues that makes many to question his love, so it is in line with this thread. It won't derail.

InesQor:

What god do you refer to?

cyrexx:

The thread is about love of Yahweh and the topic of hell is among the issues that makes many to question his love, so it is in line with this thread. It won't derail.

Reyginus: We should be concerned only on what Iredia presented are his problem with the love of God. The problem here is an isolated one.

InesQor:

You're right, it's on topic. I'm mobile now but will revert soonish.

musKeeto:
lol @ ur sig.. Alexleo no dey take nonsense

InesQor:

But a "true free willed being" with no moral compass whatsoever, and who honours no agreements (even the ones that he made in his freewill, e.g. giving freewill to angels and man) is a tyrant.

Uyi Iredia:


Hold on a minute ! I have not said I'm an atheist. I'm in a questioning state while nominally remaining a Christian. That said I think the book 'Common Sense' by Jean Meslier did the trick. His short simple points made me reconsider my beliefs.

Alfamann:

yours.

InesQor: But a "true free willed being" with no moral compass whatsoever, and who honours no agreements (even the ones that he made in his freewill, e.g. giving freewill to angels and man) is a tyrant.

Reyginus: I assure you that any attempt to include what Iredia never presented as problem will derail this thread. The thread should be all about Iredia, his doubts and the love of God as regards to the OT. This is a temptation to derail. Except Iredia also has a problem with hell.

Kay 17:


However he can choose to either break or be bound by whatever agreement he has with anyone.

I think Uyi Iredia IS taking the path of challenging his faith and its very brave.

The incompatibility of God's acts in the OT and Concept of love might probably lead you to see the Bible as a lens of man in understanding God rather than being God's actual fingerprint (of which invalidation invalidates God), just as Jesus did. He saw the Mosaic laws as laws from Moses.

InesQor:

A God of integrity will not break agreements just because he is omnipotent and has free will and nobody can stop him.

frank3.16:

again i ask, agreement with who?

InesQor:

Agreement with man through Adam. God gave him dominion. Dominion means he has the freewill to exert authority here on earth. This is the explicit agreement.

There is also the implicit agreement: i.e. Man knows that he can make decisions as long as he is alive. God will not take this away at any time.

Ihedinobi: @Uyi, about Argument A, it is true that the argument can be set up. It perhaps could go thus:

1. Killing innocent children in order to forgive people is brutal.

2. The Christian God killed an innocent child in order to forgive a people.

3. Therefore the Christian God is brutal.

By implication, this argument continues:

1. A brutal God is not loving.

2. The Christian God is brutal.

3. Therefore the Christian God is not loving.


If you agree, we can address it too. To move the discussion along more quickly, I propose we take the arguments simultaneously. Indicate your willingness or lack of it and we'll proceed or quit.

Logicboy03:



Uyi must be tired of your failed attempts to make him believe that the christian God is loving.



Also, why not let Uyi set up his own argument?

I noticed the Anonyism trick you embedded in your modal argument

2) Jesus christ was not an innocent child, he was a willing partcipant in the forgiveness of mankind.

Ihedinobi:

Lol. It so happens that I'm in no mood for your anti-intellectualism tonight.

Logicboy03:


See what thinking like an paranoid christian who always suspect atheists does to you?


We all talk about our private beliefs here on the religion section. Stop making eba out of a grain of garri

wiegraf:

That's not the issue here. The issue is he should be the one starting the thread, not you. And you're the one making eba, else you'd have dropped this. But meh

Random: Faulty arguments abound ITT, but meh

Just for the record I spell god god on purpose. On occasion, I spell it dog. When really pissed, I bring out a jesusfingchristliterally.jpg, but I usually spell Jesus Jesus. I can dig Jesus, he's ok.

Logicboy03:


lol...you're one crazy guy.....


You still havent told us if you're German or something......what kind of nigga has a name/username like Weigraff? Where did that come from?

wiegraf:
Just for the record I spell god god on purpose. On occasion, I spell it dog. When really pissed, I bring out a jesusfingchristliterally.jpg, but I usually spell Jesus Jesus. I can dig Jesus, he's ok.

InesQor:

Finally, I get one answer to my question on the use of English. You do it deliberately / out of spite. Well understood.

InesQor:

Finally, I get one answer to my question on the use of English. You do it deliberately / out of spite. Well understood.

wiegraf:

I do that to all things I have no respect for. No respect does not necessarily mean spite. Sometimes I'm just careless, but yes, in this case it's deliberate.

As for @mazaje, I don't think he capitalizes most words actually (including his handle iirc, like me), spite or no. I doubt it's personal in any way.

Time to get to work or derail elsewhere...

davidylan:

I find this most odd. Its either God doesnt exist or He does and you dont respect Him. You cant have it both ways. I find it funny that those who claim God doesnt exist appear to exhibit the most virulent causeless hatred for His mere name.

wiegraf:

Why yes, my good rabid thoughtless chiwawa. Notice the use of the word 'thing'. You know, lots of things can be 'things', like your fairy tale dog.

Virulent hatred where? Seriously. Don't project on me good ser

Ihedinobi:

Lol. It so happens that I'm in no mood for your anti-intellectualism tonight.

alexleo:

No, dont be tired bros. General overseer, holy ghost holocaust ministry. When you succeed in converting them by your much effort we shall humbly come and lay our offerings at your feet for the great feat you achieved. Go on brother.