So much hogwash. Smh

Oahray:
How does that even justify kneeling in front of a statue of her and addressing her in something we call 'prayer to God'?

If you address someone in a prayer, you are praying TO him or her. In a nutshell, you kneel in front of an image representing Mary, praying TO her to pray FOR you.

Direct your kweshions to God who asked the isrealites to look up to a mere 'bronze serpent' instead just healing them.

Did the isrealites worship the bronze serpent? Yes or no

Oahray: But honestly, one who accepts the Trinity doctrine cannot rightly fault this doctrine of the Intercession of Mary. I guess the logic is: "if Jesus is the same as his Almighty Father, then Mary is the mother of the Almighty, and therefore should be prayed to".

The false Trinity doctrine is at the root of all this. BTW is the trinitarian 'God' that hardhearted that his 'mother' has to beg for us before he hears?

brother, 1 million percent gbammmm.....................

Oahray: lol... Pics can only change the mind of unbiased onlooker, not one who is busy tagging everyone a fool in the most hateful manner possible. I think it's a defensive mechanism though.

For me (with Bible backing), using an image of whoever or whatever, kneeling or bowing down to it as part of worship (especially when praying) to God is idolatory. Pray only to God, THROUGH Jesus
.

Beautiful!

Oahray: I'd skip the untruth in your post so it doesn't lead to derailing.

How does this your argument even justify kneeling in front of a statue of her and addressing her in something we call 'prayer to God'?

If you address someone in a prayer, you are praying TO him or her. In a nutshell, you kneel in front of an image representing Mary, praying TO her to pray FOR you.

Kneeling before and praying to graven images as points of contacts. #Idolatory tinz#

honeric01:

You're beating around the bush

why are you not asking the rest of the 70 dead disciples and millions of dead believers to pray for you?
why did they single out only Mary and not the rest of the disciples?

In Jesus's prayer, where was it written that we should pray to mary to ask Jesus to answer us?

Where in the bible was it written?

Just help me with this and i'd understand where you're coming from.

Ghost appearing to people is not new and not just a "bible" thing, even pagans have ghost appearing to them, so are you now comparing Christian worship to that of Pagans?

You sound angry because the lies are being unraveled. so you mean 7 books were removed from the bible? who removed it and do you mind showing us the complete bible you have?

Who are your forefathers that removed it?

Sorry I didn't even realise your level of ignorance on key catholic doctrines !! FYi catholics do not just ask mary to pray for them but also hundreds of thousands of saints from all generations including the apostles.

Please do a little more studying and less critisizing,it will help a lot

chukwudi44:

Sorry I didn't even realise your level of ignorance on key catholic doctrines !! FYi catholics do not just ask mary to pray for them but also hundreds of thousands of saints from all generations including the apostles.

Please do a little more studying and less critisizing,it will help a lot

ignore me, I will not ignore you.

I am an ex-catholic and Mary is at the center of most prayers and worship.

Sick!!!

frosbel:

Wrong.

The resurrection has not happened, indeed when it happens we will be like the angels, until then , the dead are dead.

For example, Jesus was speaking to the apostles when he said :

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." - John 14:3

What do we expect at the resurrection which happens at the end of the age ? Lets correlate the statement made by Daniel and Jesus.

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2

and

" Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned." - John 5:29

Mary is also waiting for the resurrection , she is not praying for anyone, stop this PAGAN rubbish.

Do you mind explaining how moses and samuel were resurrected

frosbel:

ignore me, I will not ignore you.

I am an ex-catholic and Mary is at the center of most prayers and worship.

Sick!!!

You could have been a pope for all I care.You know absolutely notting about the RCC.You will end up dying as a frustrated man like your predecessors

chukwudi44:

Sorry I didn't even realise your level of ignorance on key catholic doctrines !! FYi catholics do not just ask mary to pray for them but also hundreds of thousands of saints from all generations including the apostles.

St Bridget, St Tansi, St Katarina, St Mariama, St Tom, St Di.ck, St Harry etc.

Is this biblical??

chukwudi44:

Sorry I didn't even realise your level of ignorance on key catholic doctrines !! FYi catholics do not just ask mary to pray for them but also hundreds of thousands of saints from all generations including the apostles.

Please do a little more studying and less critisizing,it will help a lot

But mary is the focal point...we talk lie??....

According to your other colleagues they say mary is the mother of the church..what utter blasphemy and hogwash!!!!!!!.....

chukwudi44:

You could have been a pope for all I care.You know absolutely notting about the RCC.You will end up dying as a frustrated man like your predecessors

Very shameful of you.

Oahray: But honestly, one who accepts the Trinity doctrine cannot rightly fault this doctrine of the Intercession of Mary. I guess the logic is: "if Jesus is the same as his Almighty Father, then Mary is the mother of the Almighty, and therefore should be prayed to".

The false Trinity doctrine is at the root of all this. BTW is the trinitarian 'God' that hardhearted that his 'mother' has to beg for us before he hears?

I even thought I was arguing with fellow xtians before now.No wonder !! I didn't realise you are under a very strong satanic hold

chukwudi44:

Do you mind explaining how moses and samuel were resurrected

1. Samuel was not resurrected , it was a familiar spirit.

"Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land." - 1 Samuel 28:3

"Saul then said to his attendants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her." "There is one in Endor," they said. So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. "Consult a spirit for me," he said, "and bring up for me the one I name." - 1 Samuel 28:7-8


2. Moses did not resurrect, it was a vision.

"Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus." - Matthew 17:3

This was a good way of saying that Jesus Christ is a fulfillment of the law and the prophets for the benefit of the apostles. But hear what Jesus said later.

"And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” - Matthew 17:9

It was a vision, simples.

chukwudi44:

You could have been a pope for all I care.You know absolutely notting about the RCC.You will end up dying as a frustrated man like your predecessors

the spirit of the anti-christ is alive and well.

chukwudi44:

Sorry I didn't even realise your level of ignorance on key catholic doctrines !! FYi catholics do not just ask mary to pray for them but also hundreds of thousands of saints from all generations including the apostles.

Please do a little more studying and less critisizing,it will help a lot

Now that you're asking for dead souls to pray for you, let me ask you, to ask God for anything, you're to ask in Jesus's name and in no other person's name, true or false? if true, why then do you need to go through Mary and every other "dead saints" you claimed you people pray to so that they will help "beg" Jesus to take their prayers to God? where did Jesus command us to go this route?

He simply said, Ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you, whatever is asked in my name shall be given. We have DIRECT access to God through Jesus and we do not need anyone else in between, if your faith is too small, join it with other living believer like you, why gather round an image just because you seek "help" from that image before your prayers can get to Jesus and in turn to God?

Oahray: I'd skip the fallacious untruth in your post so it doesn't lead to derailing.

How does this your argument even justify kneeling in front of a statue of her and addressing her in something we call 'prayer to God'?

If you address someone in a prayer, you are praying TO him or her. In a nutshell, you kneel in front of an image representing Mary, praying TO her to pray FOR you.

He's yet to tell us who removed the 7 books he claimed was removed from the bible since he knows this, if anyone removed anything from the bible, it should be the roman Catholics since you guys claimed you have always been the preserver of Christianity.

chukwudi44:

Direct your kweshions to God who asked the isrealites to look up to a mere 'bronze serpent' instead just healing them.

Did the isrealites worship the bronze serpent? Yes or no

lol. Fallacy upon fallacy. Alright, going by your own twisted logic, God told Israelites to offer animal sacrifice, therefore it is not out of place to offer animal sacrifices today.

The copper serpent forshadowed the Christ (not Mary) as Jesus said in John 3:13-15.
The Israelites simply had to gaze at it, and no form of worship was involved.

2 Kings 18:4 shows that the Israelites later started sacrificing to it, and Hezekiah had it destroyed as part of his reforms.

That said, it's amazing how easily you guys nitpick the scriptures.

The Israelites had the Ark of the covenant. Do we?

The Israelites offered animal sacrifices and grain offerings. Do we?

The Israelites had Moses as their mediator. Do we?

The Israelites were guided by Mosaic laws which condoned some things Christ rejected, like 'hating your enemies' or 'bloodshed'.

If you are truly Christian, then you should be guided by the new convenant which was built on Love (God and Christ's love for us), mediated by Christ, and sealed by his shed blood.

Mary was an imperfect human like us, favoured with the blessing of birthing the messiah, she was not elevated to any special position deserving of worshipful honor by Jesus or his 1st century followers.
Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. Look up to him today, not Mary.

chukwudi44:

I even thought I was arguing with fellow xtians before now.No wonder !! I didn't realise you are under a very strong satanic hold

lol... If you cannot refute a man's argument, all hope is not lost, you can still call him vile names. Keep insulting me for doctrines that are not biblical.

Oahray: lol. Fallacy upon fallacy. Alright, going by your own twisted logic, God told Israelites to offer animal sacrifice, therefore it is not out of place to offer animal sacrifices today.

The copper serpent forshadowed the Christ (not Mary) as Jesus said in John 3:13-15.
The Israelites simply had to gaze at it, and no form of worship was involved.

2 Kings 18:4 shows that the Israelites later started sacrificing to it, and Hezekiah had it destroyed as part of his reforms.

That said, it's amazing how easily you guys nitpick the scriptures.

The Israelites had the Ark of the convenant. Do we?

The Israelites offered animal sacrifices and grain offerings. Do we?

The Israelites had Moses as their mediator. Do we?

The Israelites were guided by Mosaic laws which condoned some things Christ rejected, like 'hating your enemies' or 'bloodshed'.

If you are truly Christian, then you should be guided by the new convenant which was built on Love (God and Christ's love for us), mediated by Christ, and sealed by his shed blood.

Mary was an imperfect human like us, favoured with the blessing of birthing the messiah, she was not elevated to any special position deserving of worshipful honor by Jesus or his 1st century followers.
Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. Look up to him today, not Mary.

My bro you said it all......though this bronze serpent scenario had been explicitly explained by boomark on another thread,I'll want to say a big thank you for resounding these clear truths to our catholic freinds.....the problem is catholics cannot just worship God(I don't know which god again sef) without the use of graven images....they might die of heart attack if they worship God exactly the way Jesus did........they are so in love with the numerous images and carvings around them............they bow down to anything...dead meat et all......

ijawkid:

But mary is the focal point...we talk lie??....

According to your other colleagues they say mary is the mother of the church..what utter blasphemy and hogwash!!!!!!!.....

Who is the head of the Church? Jesus right? Who is Jesus' mother?

xynerise:
Who is the head of the Church? Jesus right? Who is Jesus mother?

LOL, so you mean because a jug is used to house water, the jug automatically becomes the source of that water?

Mary herself needed to believe in Jesus and also became his disciple before she was saved, if she hadn't believed in Christ,she would have died and remain a candidate of hell just like any other unbeliever out there. if she was already the head of the church, why then follow Jesus instead of Jesus following her since she's the mother of Jesus?

honeric01:

LOL, so you mean because a jug is used to house water, the jug automatically becomes the source of that water?

Mary herself needed to believe in Jesus and also became his disciple before she was saved, if she hadn't believe in Christ, if she was already the head of the church, why then follow Jesus instead of Jesus following her since she's the mother of Jesus?

If the angel of God honoured Mary what stops an antelope like you to do the same?
Mary was a good woman before Jesus came to earth. For her to be chosen to bring our saviour to the world goes a long way for her to be called "Ordinary woman". Use your head. How many woman posses the qualities of Mary in this earth?

xynerise:
If the angel of God honoured Mary what stops an antelope like you to do the same?

You're jumping up and down in circles, you do not need to insult me if you have nothing to say, just answer the questions or be mute. why are you aggressive like the pharisees anytime they have no answers to Jesus's teachings and questions?

BTW, the angel of God didn't worship Mary, rather he acknowledged her for the job she was about to do and that was all. after her job was done, she became as everyone else and if she had died not believing in Jesus or accepting him, she would have been a candidate of hell too, true or false?

Oh i forgot you people don't even believe in the real hell, you call yours purgatory or what is it again?

xynerise:
Who is the head of the Church? Jesus right? Who is Jesus' mother?

Who is the President (Head) of Nigeria?
Goodluck, right?


Who is the Mother of Nigeria? Does that make any sense to anyone here?

What can a mother do for the church that the HEAD cannot do?

honeric01:


You're jumping up and down in circles, you do not need to insult me if you have nothing to say, just answer the questions or be mute. why are you aggressive like the pharisees anytime they have no answers to Jesus's teachings and questions?

You are the pharisee here judging what you dont know. Have you cleaned your faults?

xynerise:
If the angel of God honoured Mary what stops an antelope like you to do the same?
Mary was a good woman before Jesus came to earth. For her to be chosen to bring our saviour to the world goes a long way for her to be called "Ordinary woman". Use your head . How many woman posses the qualities of Mary in this earth?

Thats the problem... you guys are "using your head" to carve shapes and serve anything...

Use your bible not your head... My head also tells me, Abraham is a good man... can I worship him? should I carve his image?

Acidosis:

Who is the President (Head) of Nigeria?
Goodluck, right?


Who is the Mother of Nigeria? Does that make any sense to anyone here?

What can a mother do for the church that the HEAD cannot do?

Mother of the Church is a title based on Jesus being her child. Please, next time dont use Nigeria as an example.

Acidosis:

Thats the problem... you guys are "using your head" to carve shapes and serve anything...

Use your bible not your head... My head also tells me, Abraham is a good man... can I worship him? should I carve his image?

I dont worship Mary. If I do I will be proud to say it. Afterall, the Atheist are proud of their stupidity. I only honour her like God and Angel Gabriel did.

xynerise:
Mother of the Church is a title based on Jesus being her child. Please, next time dont use Nigeria as an example.

So who is the Father of the church, uncle of the church, brothers and sisters of the church, in-laws of the church, Aunty and Nephew of the church, Cousins and grand daughters of the church??

Too many human doctrines...beating around the bush when you already know the saviour..

xynerise:
I dont worship Mary. If I do I will be proud to say it. Afterall, the Atheist are proud of their stupidity. I only honour her like God and Angel Gabriel did.

Honour as in Honour? Then I'm cool with that...
We ought to honour and love one another...

Acidosis:

So who is the Father of the church, uncle of the church, brothers and sisters of the church, in-laws of the church, Aunty and Nephew of the church, Cousins and grand daughters of the church??

Too many human doctrines...beating around the bush when you already know the saviour..

My friend close your mouth. You guys that worship your pastors and even use their name to pray. "Let the god of....... answer my prayer". You even put your pastor's picture in your sitting room and toilets. So how will you explain that?