Hi Frosbel,
I tried to send you a mail via this medium but decided to open up the discuss just in case there other who may want to benefit from it.
I have followed a bit on your discuss in the religion section. I once came across your discuss on tithing where you showed that Christians should not pay tithe, especially with your discuss on Hebrew 7. Following an incidence in my local church and having critically looked at the doctrine on tithing I came to the conclusion that indeed tithing is not a new testament injuction. I have tithed for 15yrs since becoming a chrtistian and this month may be the fist time I am not going to be tithing. I have some points for and against tithing. I would start with the "Against". That is my conclusion for not tithing and would ask that you shed some light on why the "for" reason is equally unscriptural.
Against:
1. Chief among them is that tithing is legalistic. (Colosians 2). And if we must tithe we had better keep the whole of Moses' law.
2. The New testament does not teach tithing: in fact I see that only Pharisees tithed in the time of Jesus
3. There is no scriptural evidence anyone paid tithe to Jesus or the Apostles.
4.Until recently, tithing was not a common practice among protestant and evangelical chuches, I cannot speak for the catholics.
5. Tithing may be at the root of the prosperity teaching
6. Malachi 3 was a message to a Jewish audience; and the main gist of it was not tithing but the abuse of the priestly office something that modern day Pastor are equally guilty of.
7. Jesus' words in Mathew 23:23 where he said "... do not leave others undone" cannot be said to be a categorical justification for tithing because the others there refered still to the keeping of the law. But that Mercy, faith and Justice, the crux of the law, is what we should pursue after. Which is still God's calling on the NT believer.

But there are some questions still remain on why tithing may be justifiable. And they include
1. Abraham payed tithe to a type of Christ in Genesis 14 and Hebrew 7 lent a word to it. And if Abraham is the father of faith, whose faith we are called to imitate, Romans 4, is this not a veritable reason to tithe?
2. Somewhere in Proverbs the bible teaches that we should honor the Lord with our substance and give him the firstfruit of our increase. Is this another reason to tithe?
In one of your discuss on tithe you analyzed Hebrew 7, as a reason not to tithe. Can you please shed some light on this in the light of my present question.
Thank you.


After one week of intensive debate on this topic I consider that my question is answered. By the time this thread reached page 4, a gentle man by the oname f Gary J Arnold(garyarnold) came in and offered such clear explanation on the topic. He had the website www.tithing101.com on link. That website shed light on all my questions. I want to thank Frosbel(who the thread was adressed to), goshen360, christembassy, and a host of other anti-tithers who helped me come to a better conclusion on the subject of Abraham. I also thank image123, truthalways, bidam and other pro-tithers, who made the argument worth it all and for your time in contributing. At the end I was more convinced by the anti-tithers than the pro. The reason is simple, though I am pentecostal in tradition, I am very well schooled in reformed theology and the doctrine of grace. R T Kendall who introduced me to this in his book WORSHIPPING GOD taught me tithing. But he used the Abraham example. But following the experience I related later in this page 1, and colosians 2, I was increasingly led to study tithe. But just could not go over the Abraham issue until this thread was made.
I write this for those who are just opening the thread. Of course, you have the freedom to come to your own conclusion but before you do so, try to read the arguments, most of which are scripture backed, to reach you conclusion. At the end may all the glory be to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Amen.
Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfeDi5E16P0


Though Frosbel has not answered me, the above video from one of his posts helped a great deal.
But I am still awaiting your response.

Another one for frosbel and pastor kun... Hip hip hooray!!

Hmmmmmmmm, it's gonna be time consuming again but I will try, not now but later. Lemme see if I finish my other assignments for today on time; then I will explode

Abraham is the father of our faith but not the author and finisher of our faith which jesus clearly is. If we are to emulate abraham then we ought to be making sacrifices(animal),going to war and doing things that he did which are against christianity.

Segeggs: Abraham is the father of our faith but not the author and finisher of our faith which jesus clearly is. If we are to emulate abraham then we ought to be making sacrifices(animal),going to war and doing things that he did which are against christianity.

Follow the faith of Abraham and his works based on faith,not his acts.

It is not a law for a Christian to tithe,but Christianity was born of the Word and of faith.
Abraham(and Jacob)tithed and the bible calls us the seed of Abraham.
If u are of faith,then tithe.
I tithe and even have begun giving first fruits.I have seen specific things happen in my life and I know it was because of the firstfruit i gave.

It is of faith,that it might be of grace.
Let it be according to your faith.

^ ^ When the Bible says we are the seed of Abraham, what does it mean?

Goshen360: ^ ^ When the Bible says we are the seed of Abraham, what does it mean?

'For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ......and if ye be Christ's,then are ye Abraham's seed,and heirs according to the promise(Gal 3:27,29).
The seed of Abraham according to the bible is the one who is joined by faith to Christ.

Will address this brother after I have a small rest after a hard days work

^^^that will be excellent Frosbel
Along side you may mention what U do and how it links such grasp of scripture U have and how U came to some of this conclusion without the pollution of new generation gospel - I mean what Xtian tradition are U of and who
are ur role models in Xtian ministry. I hope all this still preserve ur anonymity

frosbel: Will address this brother after I have a small rest after a hard days work

I will also be alert for back-up. I'm also at work for now. We, working with our hands and managing our finance well, giving and being given; not tithing in order to be blessed because we're already blessed through the finished work of Christ.

^All along I had thought frosbel and goshen360 where one and the same person
I am looking fwd to ur contribution too

^ We're one in the Spirit but two separate individuals living in different part of the world. Due to my busy schedule for now, I will only come in once in a while and will fully contribute when I have enough time.

Signing-on for Christ, just finished ministering @ The Living Waters, i'll be back in full force. Presently.

Very interesting thread indeed.... Folowing.

This just came to my heart, as to the question of Abraham tithing. Apparently circumcision started with Abraham with a clear instruction from God that every male must be circumcised Genesis 17. One could argue that circumcision was not of the law also since it preceded the law. But, lo and behold, by the time of Paul the apostle, he withstood circumcision to the end. In fact it may br argued that only Paul understood the doctrine of God's grace so much as to denounce circumcision among the apostles, who felt he was called to the gentiles with that peculiar message, while they were sent to the circumcised. Which has to be untrue. From the time the vision was given to Peter in Act 9, it is apparent that God was through with circumcision and by extension, tithing.

Let me share with the house the reason I began to think tithing through and through.
In the heat of Oritsejafor Jet purchase last year I preached a message in my church Doctrine: The Foundation for the Anointing in the End Time. The message was delivered to a small group in church. In it I made it clear there are two types of doctrine in church: The true and the false, and that each of the, came with their own anointing, taking ref from Matth 24 and 2 corinth 11. While discussing the false, I said 'What is the motive behind the purchase of a private jet' without mentioning Oritsejafor. After the message one of our senior pastors told me that though it was a sound message I should have left Oritsejafor out of it, he said 'to his master, he standeth or falleth'.

I then wrote a letter to the senior pastor of the church were I laid down my concern for the church in Nigeria and the deceit of prosperity. In it I suggested that church finances should be published. He thanked me, in a text, though he said I should not allow my anger to rob me of God's blessing.
By the new year the church announced the purchase of a 4M naira car for another senior pastor. It was to be a sunrise gift to him on an anniversary occasion. The car was given to him but my Pastor said that church finances was used to purchase the car and we should donate to replace the money. I did not donate and I held my peace. Till this moment I am almost sure that money was never recovered via donation.
Then I said so these men think they can use church finances as they wish and not be held accountable.

Thus I thought, if there were not too many Free money, via tithing, that money will not be available for anyhow spending in the name of God's leading. So I began studying tithing but I thought I must clear the Abraha's issue ehich I hope Frosbel and others will help me with.
So for me it was a journey to discovery, not just that I wanted to be disobedient. That is why I started with a scriptural ref and not an experience, But so far this is what led to it.
By the way my church does not practice firstfruit. in the heat of the debate two yrs ago my pastor came out to argue against it. These are the reasons I felt my church was ok, until the car incidence.

Pls dont follow Abraham, the christian is better than Abraham. . The christian is born again, Abraham was not.

[quote

author=christemmbassey]Pls dont follow Abraham, the christian is better
than Abraham. . The christian is born again, Abraham was not. [/quote]
Abraham was not born again is not correct theological. He may not have born again as the NT type but he was certainly regenerated and justified.
Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:4-5
Also no one gave the impression of following Abraham. He is only an example. Jesus Christ is Lord forever.

@drumaboy, give me time to finish my posts at 'christians' Abraham is not your father, we will discus. God bless.

@Goshen
There was this elucidating exposition you did on hebrews 7, I think you should reproduce it here or put the link here so the OP can learn from it. I believe all his concerns have already been addressed in that thread.

^THANK U PASTOR KUNG. I FOUND THE LINK ON GOSHEN'S TOPICS AND I AM STUDYING THEM NOW

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

I am on page for on Goshen's thread. The argument is intense but the logic is lucid. Unfortunately the thread was continually derailed but my questions are being answered.
Having tithed for 15yrs since University days it is not easy quiting but it is worth it to preserve the truth of God's word.

DrummaBoy: I am on page for on Goshen's thread. The argument is intense but the logic is lucid. Unfortunately the thread was continually derailed but my questions are being answered.
Having tithed for 15yrs since University days it is not easy quiting but it is worth it to preserve the truth of God's word.

Your story is quite pathetic. The way men of God are going about these days and driving crazy for money and things of this life is so worrisome but whatever decision you are taking make sure you are being guided by the Holy Spirit. thats my advice for you.

alexleo:

Whatever decision you are taking make sure you are being guided by the Holy Spirit. thats my advice for you.

The Holy Spirit guides into TRUTH , by inference therefore , he will not guide anyone into something that is not scriptural.

frosbel:

The Holy Spirit guides into TRUTH , by inference therefore , he will not guide anyone into something that is not scriptural.

I ve expatiated on that anyway so that he ll understand where am coming from.

[quote author=DrummaBoy]Hi Frosbel,
I tried to send you a mail via this medium but decided to open up the discuss just in case there other who may want to benefit from it.

I replied, did you get my mail ?

Following an incidence in my local church and having critically looked at the doctrine on tithing I came to the conclusion that indeed tithing is not a new testament injuction. I have tithed for 15yrs since becoming a chrtistian and this month may be the fist time I am not going to be tithing.

Praise GOD for your decision.

You are now free to give as the Holy Spirit leads you , no longer under bondage or compulsion or a curse.

I have some points for and against tithing. I would start with the "Against". That is my conclusion for not tithing and would ask that you shed some light on why the "for" reason is equally unscriptural.
Against:
1. Chief among them is that tithing is legalistic. (Colosians 2). And if we must tithe we had better keep the whole of Moses' law.
2. The New testament does not teach tithing: in fact I see that only Pharisees tithed in the time of Jesus
3. There is no scriptural evidence anyone paid tithe to Jesus or the Apostles.
4.Until recently, tithing was not a common practice among protestant and evangelical chuches, I cannot speak for the catholics.
5. Tithing may be at the root of the prosperity teaching
6. Malachi 3 was a message to a Jewish audience; and the main gist of it was not tithing but the abuse of the priestly office something that modern day Pastor are equally guilty of.
7. Jesus' words in Mathew 23:23 where he said "... do not leave others undone" cannot be said to be a categorical justification for tithing because the others there refered still to the keeping of the law. But that Mercy, faith and Justice, the crux of the law, is what we should pursue after. Which is still God's calling on the NT believer.

I agree,