Questions For Frosbel On Tithing - Religion (6) - Nairaland
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A Theological Discuss On Tithing By Rhymeyjohn, Image123, Mark Miwerds & Candour / Inviting Tithers To A Theological Discuss with Miwerds and Candour On Tithing / Anti-Deity of Yahshua: Please Kindly Help Frosbel Answer This (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by truthislight: 9:50pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
Image123: BTW, on Gosh's long division of Hebrew 7, all he ended up saying is that the priesthood is no longer required to be of Levi origin. That's why Jesus can be High Priest from the tribe of Judah. That's why gentiles can claim priesthood under the new covenant. how can you be a priest in a church when Jesus said that "ALL" christians are to be made "DISCIPLES"? who then pays tith to who? "Go therefor and make DISCIPLE of people of all the nation". (matthew 28:19) ........................................................... Ole! Where ^^^ is the room for priesthood for some people in that? Dont you know the purpose of christianity?: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14). .................................................. What has that ^ assignment to do with your institutionalised "priesthood" in the congregation? You are lost and you dont know it. Keep on deceiving yourself that YOU are a "priest" in the congregation. Who then is not a priest while you are a priest in the church and should pay tith to you? Ole, thief, crook, lazy man, fraud star. You people are the reason Nigeria is so backward, since you cannot create anything for the nation. Go and get a job. Apostle paul was a tent maker. Ole! Who pays tith to who? Who pays tith to who? Who pays tith to who? 1 Like |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by garyarnold(m): 9:56pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
Preacher: You tithe on the first ten percent of your income. God’s Word: You tithe on crops, and every tenth animal that passes under the rod. NOT the first, but the tenth. See Leviticus 27:30-33. Preachers are mixing firstfruits with the tithe and they are NOT the same. In Nehemiah 10:37-38 we learn that the firstfruits were taken to the temple for the priests, and the tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities. Preacher: The Levites worked full-time at The Temple. God’s Word: The Levities and priests were divided into “24 courses” and they rotated working at The Temple one week out of every 24 weeks. Therefore, the priests and Levites actually worked at The Temple about two weeks a year. The rest of the time they had regular jobs. See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites. Preacher: You tithe the BEST to God. God’s Word: You tithe every tenth animal whether that animal be good OR BAD. See Leviticus 27:30-33. Preacher: The firstfruits of your income belong to God. God’s Word: In the Old Testament, every time a firstfruits offering is mentioned it is referring to the first of the crop, assets that came from God’s hand, not man’s labor. Firstfruits offerings has nothing to do with income. Preacher: The tithe was taken to The Temple. God’s Word: The tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities. See Nehemiah 10:37-38. Preacher: Malachi 3:10 Take all the tithes to the storehouse. God’s Word: The Levites received the tithe, and they were required to take a tenth of the tithe to the priests. ONLY that tithe went to the storehouse, NOT the tithe from the people. Again, see Nehemiah 10:37-38. Preacher: You are robbing God if you don’t bring your tithe to the church. Malachi 3:8-10. God’s Word: The priests were robbing God, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe by stealing the Levites portion (Nehemiah 13). The priests robbed God of the offerings by giving the worst and keeping the best (Malachi 1). God defined His tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 as HOLY. How can anyone change God’s definition and then call a tenth of their income a HOLY tithe! 1 Like |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by garyarnold(m): 9:57pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
Hebrews 7:7 (KJV) “And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.” Abram, the lesser, was blessed by the King-Priest Melchisedek, the better. Abram gave the tenth to the better. 1 Peter 2:5 (KJV) “Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 - According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe (Numbers 18). 2 - As priests, all born-again believers are equal. There is no better or lesser among us. God has not designated any born-again believers to collect His tithe. 3 - To try and “tithe” today is denying that you are a part of a Royal Priesthood. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by alexleo(m): 10:01pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
Goshen360: Is it not Jesus that said the one i quoted in John 14:14? Yet it is not any thing we ask that he does for us as that quotation goes, at least in the human eyes. Not because he cant do it but he understands us better and knows our capacity and does what will be more useful than damaging to us. Same goes for malachi quotation. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by DrummaBoy(m): 10:04pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
garyarnold has a website on his link www.tithing101.com we will all do well to go through the 3 step course outlined there |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by alexleo(m): 10:13pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
truthislight: ALL THIS ONE NA ONLY TO DISPLAY ANTI TITHE ANGER? YOU DEY TRY. THERE IS NOTHING WITH TITHE. CONTINUE YOUR DISPLAY SIR. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by garyarnold(m): 10:14pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
Blessings pour out to those who tithe from their income and to those who do not tithe. One does not get blessed because they "tithe." If you had to "tithe" in order for blessings to pour out, why do non-tithers get the same blessings as so-called "tithers?" What about all the so-called "tithers" who can barely make it from paycheck to paycheck? Or those so-called "tithers" who are deeply in debt? My personal experience has been that non-tithers are more generous that "tithers." So-called "tithers" think that ten percent belongs to God and the other 90% is theirs to do as they please. That's not New Testament teaching at all. I have never tithed in my life, yet I have been blessed with a house that I paid cash for, a luxury SUV that I paid cash for, absolutely NO debts, money in the bank, and excellent health, and was able to retire 19 years ago at the age of 50 with NO DEBT. Being SPIRIT LED instead of 10% led, I find myself giving between 30% and 50% and sometimes even more, consistently from month to month. Don't try to tell me that those who tithe get more blessings than those who don't. I know too many church goers that have tithed all their lives and have little to show for it. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Nobody: 10:48pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
garyarnold:You don't still get it do you? God has chosen some to serve him in special ways, and this is true in both the Old and New Covenant eras.Peter is in fact quoting from an Old Testament passage directed at the people of Israel: "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel" (Exodus 19:6). God calls "the children of Israel" a "kingdom of priests," just as Peter calls Christians "a royal priesthood." Thus to admit that every Christian is in some sense a "priest" does not eliminate the professional clergy. If 1 Peter 2:9 destroys the distinction between clergy and laity, then Exodus 19:6 should have done the same under the Old Covenant. But since Exodus 19:6 did not destroy the distinction between clergy and laity, then neither can one use 1 Peter 2:9 to destroy such a distinction. On the other hand, the Bible says that, after his ascension, Christ "gave gifts unto men…And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some,pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:8, 11-12). Then, in another place, Paul denies that everyone is called to these offices (1 Corinthians 12:28-30). When Paul greets the Philippians, he makes special mention of "the overseers and deacons" that are among "all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi" (Philippians 1:1, NIV). James writes, "Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly" (James 3:1). This implies that Christian teachers are distinguishable from other Christians, and that God himself distinguishes between the two. Therefore, although every Christian is a priest in some sense, God has evidently selected some people to carry additional responsibility and authority in the church. Hebrews says, "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you" (Hebrews 13:17). This distinction between the clergy and laity is repugnant to many people, who often oppose this design of God. Paul writes, "If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we should reap material things from you?" (1 Corinthians 9:11, NASB). |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Nobody: 10:58pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
Bidam: The distinction between clergy and laity is not of GOD and is definitely not his design. "But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." - Revelation 2:6 "Don't let anyone call you 'Rabbi,' for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters " - Matthew 23:8 " Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaita" - Revelation 2:15 "I wrote to the church about this, but Diotrephes, who loves to be the leader, refuses to have anything to do with us" - 3 John 1:9 |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Nobody: 11:07pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
frosbel: |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by garyarnold(m): 11:28pm On Mar 31, 2013 |
Show me where tithing, in the scriptures, ever came from anyone's income or earnings. Show me who, in the New Testament, God has designated to receive His tithe. Show me who, in the New Testament, is to take, give, or pay a tithe. Show me where the scriptures ever authorize a building fund. The Old Testament first tithe went to the Levites who were servants to the priests. They included the singers, musicians, Temple workers, etc. etc. To follow the tithing scriptures, the tithe should be given to the singers, musicians, ushers, janitors, etc. etc. and then they should give a tenth of what they receive to the priest. Tithing today is nothing but a man-made doctrine, invented by man around 1870. Just do a research of tithing in the Christian Church and you will find, as I have, that tithing from one's income started around 1870, was taught differently by different churches, and there was no consistency between churches/denominations, etc. until recent years. 1 Like |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Zikkyy(m): 12:55am On Apr 01, 2013 |
garyarnold: LOL  this is something for image123 to consider, I know image is 10% led  1 Like |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by DrummaBoy(m): 3:40am On Apr 01, 2013 |
[quote author=garyarnold]Blessings pour out to those who tithe from their income and to those who do not tithe. One does not get blessed because they "tithe." If you had to "tithe" in order for blessings to pour out, why do non-tithers get the same blessings as so-called "tithers?" What about all the so-called "tithers" who can barely make it from paycheck to paycheck? Or those so-called "tithers" who are deeply in debt? My personal experience has been that non-tithers are more generous that "tithers." So-called "tithers" think that ten percent belongs to God and the other 90% is theirs to do as they please. That's not New Testament teaching at all. I have never tithed in my life, yet I have been blessed with a house that I paid cash for, a luxury SUV that I paid cash for, absolutely NO debts, money in the bank, and excellent health, and was able to retire 19 years ago at the age of 50 with NO DEBT. Being SPIRIT LED instead of 10% led, I find myself giving between 30% and 50% and sometimes even more, consistently from month to month. Don't try to tell me that those who tithe get more blessings than those who don't. I know too many church goers that have tithed all their lives and have little to show for it.[/quote] I have never tithed in my life, yet I have been blessed with a house that I paid cash for, a luxury SUV that I paid cash for, absolutely NO debts, money in the bank, and excellent health, and was able to retire 19 years ago at the age of 50 with NO DEBT. Being SPIRIT LED instead of 10% led, I find myself giving between 30% and 50% and sometimes even more, consistently from month to month. Don't try to tell me that those who tithe get more blessings than those who don't. I know too many church goers that have tithed all their lives and have little to show for it.[/quote] I honestly do not understand why these pro-tithers will carry on with ignorance. Mr Arnold has said it all. First he proves the utter falsehood of tithe from the bible then he end with a superlative experience. If the words of a 69 yr would not do, what else will convince this generation of young, lazy and ignorant intellectuals. Thank you sir for that testimony. I would study your website @ the office tommorow. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by DrummaBoy(m): 3:48am On Apr 01, 2013 |
A Muslim colleague of mine told me of how a very junior staff of ours who earns about N8000 was telling her 'now I must remove my tithe before spending a thing...' She was like, how much do you earn and you must again remove a tithe. brainwashing. The same junior colleague comes to me for N200 once in a while when she is in a fix. she is probably close to fifty, has tithed maybe all of her life, but nothing to show for it. GOD IS NOT WICKED. It is either we don't understand his word, we are being deceived or we are just utter stu-pid. 1 Like |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Alwaystrue(f): 8:56am On Apr 01, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: A Muslim colleague of mine told me of how a very junior staff of ours who earns about N8000 was telling her 'now I must remove my tithe before spending a I think you need to be careful at this point Drummaboy, we have people who don't tithe and remain heavily in debt and keep borrowing as well. At the same time people who do or don't and make a living, these people give to different causes despite their extreme poverty and are happy to do so. We all have stories to tell but the word of God is sure. Because a 69 year old says something does not mean it is the word of God. Nowhere does the bible say tithe and enjoy the rest yourself. The Israelites of old tithed, gave offerings, helped the needy, gave to building of God's temple and they were always happy to give. Jesus said, tithe should be done along with having mercy (helping people with love), faith and justice. People sold lands and gave everything. Garyarnold says he gives between 30-50% and that includes church. He is giving in percentages based on his understanding however many who are hailing you about not tithing call tithe a burden. If 10% is a burden and they are telling you they give more, what are they saying? That is the hypocrisy of the antither. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 10:21am On Apr 01, 2013 |
Unfortunately, folks here think that gain is godliness. Yet, the hypocrites would attack the 'mogS' when they notice material wealth. They know not the Scripture, a man's life doesn't consist of his material possessions. A truly spiritual person doesn't rate blessings that way. When will zikky, goshen, debo and co correct all these rubbish that gariarnod is saying? Are we not tired of going in circles and copying and pasting assumption as fact? |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Goshen360(m): 2:10pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 3And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. << Acts 15 >> King James Bible 1. In verse one was the origin of the Judaizers such as we have in the body of Christ today - circumcision to be saved! 2. Verse 5 reveals their real intentions.....circumcision to be saved AND TO COMMAND THE NON-JEWISH (GENTILES) CHRISTIANS TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES. 3. Peter responded to subject matters of discussion - circumcision to be saved AND commanding them to keep the laws of Moses. Question @ All tithe teachers, - Image123, Bidam, Alwaystrue, Alexleo, Joagbaje, Olaadegbu, Snowwy etc. 1. Is 'tithe' or 'tithing' included in the second subject of discussion - AND TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES or NOT ? 2. Does the phrase "keep the law of Moses" includes ALL or SOME of the law of Moses ? I asked first question which Bidam failed to answer whole fully. Here is the second 2-in-one question for y'all. Thank you as you attempt to answer for everyone to read. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by DrummaBoy(m): 2:31pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Goshen, ideally there shouldn't be any more question to be answered. Gary Arnold gave a brilliant exposition on this matter on his website www.tithing101.com Nonetheless the old judaistic legalism that Paul fought against with the circumcision is what has reared its ugly head with the pro-tithers. Unfortunately their pride will not allow them see. THERE ARE NO NEW TRICKS IN SATAN'S BAG. If it is not Roman catholicism, it is a bunch of tithing Pentecostals. I am done with this thread. My questions are answered. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Allta(m): 2:35pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Don't believe anyone who say Ur pocket will be destroyed if you don't give money as tithe in the church. Whether tithe, offerings or fruits.....the key is in freewill giving of any or all of these. If you must pay tithe then do it the right old testament way... “You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. And you shall eat before the Lord your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. (Deuteronomy 14:22, 23 NKJV) But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the Lord your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the Lord your God has blessed you, then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. (Deuteronomy 14:24, 25 NKJV) And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you. (Deuteronomy 14:26, 27 NKJV) |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by christemmbassey(m): 2:53pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Bidam: Your arguments against tithing is WEAK God has always intended the children of Isreal to be priest from day one.what about Rev 1:5-6, does this also refers to the nation of Isreal? |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Goshen360(m): 3:14pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: Goshen, ideally there shouldn't be any more question to be answered. Gary Arnold gave a brilliant exposition on this matter on his website www.tithing101.com God bless you brother. When you tear down Judaism mix with Grace, you'll clearly see the true Gospel of Christ unloosed in your spirit. You will flow and grow in Grace. You will give to as many as you can give to out of love and because you have been given, not because you want to be blessed. The questions I asked, the tithe teachers cannot answer those questions in the face of scriptures that awaits them. I have made up my mind to fight the end time Judaizers who presents\mixes 'some' parts of the law of Moses to Christianity. However, make sure you practice Grace based giving - don't let any preacher deceive you no more. And as you are being delivered from from this tithe which is included "the law of Moses" in what Apostle Peter called, "a yoke which neither their fathers nor them were able to bear"; make sure you talk to another person about it as you go about preaching the Gospel of Christ and of Grace. One by one, let's continue to set the tithe captives free from the yoke\slavery of bondage. Expanded Bible (EXB) 5 Christ set us free ·so that we could live in freedom [to a place of freedom; or by means of freedom;]. So stand strong. Do not ·change and go back into the slavery of the law [ submit/be fastened to a yoke of slavery]. New International Version (©2011) It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. New Living Translation (©2007) So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law. Galatians 5:1 The only things we are not to do with our freedom from the slavery\yoke of bondage of the law (of Moses) is contained in the verse below, Expanded Bible (EXB) 13 My brothers and sisters, God called you to ·be free [ freedom], but do not use your freedom as an ·excuse to do what pleases [opportunity/occasion for] your ·sinful self [sinful nature; flesh]. [ But; Rather] Serve each other with love. Galatians 5:13 |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Alwaystrue(f): 3:26pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
@Goshen, Circumcision was a sign of purity and cleanliness in the OT so not doing it was tantamount to being defiled. That is what was meant by circumcision after the manner of Moses. I know you know all the scriptures of circumcision by Paul. Circumcision does not save, Christ does and that is why those men said except you are circumcized you cannot be saved. Now, what is the law of Moses? They are a set of do's and don't ranging from ceremonial to moral etc to make one righteous before God. The law of Moses because it was given through humans was rigid and dwelt a lot on the letter, was on actions and not the heart, lacked grace and the penalty was high. The Spirit of Liberty in Christ Jesus makes us understand the reason behind those laws and we end up not going against God's real intent for the law. 1. Tithing is included in the laws of Moses to the people of Israel, same with adultery, stealing, lying, lack of mercy and faith? 2. Keeping the laws of Moses is in entirety everything and this cannot be done except through Christ. No one can keep those laws except they are in Christ Jesus and understand the whole essence of the law through unveiled eyes. Now that I had answered your questions, do answer mine? 1. What is the whole essense on why God said that tithe should go to the Levites? What is the intent behind that? 2. Being male, where you circumcised? Do you intend or have you circumsized your sons? If you did or intend to, why? I expect straight to the point answers. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Goshen360(m): 4:28pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: If circumcision is a sign of purity and cleanliness. It therefore follows that it is only those who are pure or clean that can or should come to Christ. But remember, Christ came to call sinners to himself. Luke 5:32 & Mark 2:17. There's no point in those Judaizers trynna bring the Judaism, religion of the law of Moses into the New Testament. That religion of the law was fulfilled by Christ; there is nowhere in scriptures we are told to continue to keep them THROUGH Christ. If there is, show me the scripture(s). Alwaystrue: Now, what is the law of Moses? They are a set of do's and don't ranging from ceremonial to moral etc There's nothing like moral or ceremonial etc law. It is the law keepers that segmented it and call it those names. The law was given to Moses as a WHOLE - Written and Oral. The people that the law was given and applies to did not say one is moral, another is ceremonial. They received it as ONE WHOLE called...of Moses. If there is a scripture that says one is moral and another is ceremonial, please show me. ...etc to make one righteous before God. I believe you should know by now that no one is justified by keeping the law of Moses. Hence, keeping the law doesn't make one righteous New International Version (©2011) Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. New Living Translation (©2007) For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are. Romans 3:20 If you're talking about the 'righteousness which comes by the law of Moses' (Romans 10:5), you must keep ALL to be made righteous with or before God. That was how those under the law was made righteous with\before God. The righteousness which is 'by faith' doesn't require to keep the commandments of the law of Moses. We are under the Grace of Christ, not under the law of Moses. They are water and oil that cannot mix together. Alwaystrue: No! You're redefining the intent, purpose and reasons behind the law being given. Look at the real intent of the law here below, New International Version (©2011) Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. New Living Translation (©2007) Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. Galatians 3:19 I can go on and on, but lemme stop here on the intent, purpose and reasons behind the law being given. ^ ^ There you have it up there. We should always say what scriptures say. The law of Moses is NOT to be redefined and\or kept by Christians anymore; it is to be CAST OUT that Grace may find its root in our heart. I will follow up with the rest of your answers in the next post(s). |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Image123(m): 4:52pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
goshen and goliath, we go know as them take relate now, lol. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Goshen360(m): 5:01pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Goshen360: Here is your answer....waiting for the rest though Alwaystrue: So therefore, if 'tithing' is included in that 'law of Moses' talked about in Acts 15, and it was concluded by the Apostles that the Non-Jewish Christians, you & I are not to keep that law of Moses, why then do you people, tithe teachers still acting the Judaizers of the Old by telling Christians to keep 'some' part of the law and not all. You even agreed and accepted the truth the law of Moses was given to the PEOPLE OF ISRAEL....NOT to the CHURCH of Christ or to Christians. I hope you know the difference between both and how Christ's death made ONE NEW MAN called the church from JEWS and GENTILES, I hope you know it? ...same with adultery, stealing, lying, lack of mercy and faith? This is called over-sabi answer. You have answered the question already. But here is where you guys are missing it or mixing it up. You statement...."same with adultery, stealing, lying, lack of mercy and faith?" is NOT based on keeping the laws of Moses in the New Testament, if it were, then the Apostles would have included all other laws of washing rituals, following the priest for sin offerings, waiting for priest to pray for your forgiveness and enter the tabernacle on one's behalf etc. Adultery, fornication, lying, stealing etc are all in the Spirit of the New Testament instructions, not based on the law of Moses. If these things mentioned are stated clearly in the New Testament, why? Did the Apostles forgot to also include tithe or tithing in the New Testament for Christians? These are questions we should be asking ourselves. Goshen360: Here is your answer, Alwaystrue: Again, you answered the question correctly and trynna add...."and this cannot be done except through Christ". is out of point. There is nowhere in scriptures we are instructed to keep the law of Moses THROUGH Christ rather, it is the Spirit of life in Christ that helps is keep the NEW LAW OF CHRIST, not of Moses. If you're saying we're to keep the law of Moses in its entirety everything and with the help of Christ. I will be willing to show you some laws of Moses you can't even keep through Christ. Do you want some? Lemme know show I can quote few I have shown you in the first response the essence of the law except you want more. We are to cast out the law of Moses and its slavery spirit so that Grace may find its root in us. We are not to redefine it and mix it with Grace. They don't belong together. Christ already fulfilled it, it is not our role to still try keeping it.I will follow up in my next post to answer your own question. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Goshen360(m): 5:03pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Image123: goshen and goliath, we go know as them take relate now, lol.  e-hugs. I don dey watch you since.....if I no look wella, I for say you be Alwaystrue AGAIN |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Alwaystrue(f): 5:54pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
@Goshen, I am preparing my answer to your post above. Please answer mine in the interim. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Goshen360(m): 6:15pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: To support the Levites who do not have any portion of inheritance in Israel. The intent was sustain them in their livelihood while the do the work of the temple\tabernacle. That's my simple answer and I don't wanna expand it beyond that BUT remember, the entire law was a SHADOW and not the substance. We shall expand further though, if necessary. Alwaystrue: Yes, I was circumcised and I intend to circumcise my male son(s). That circumcision is NOT AFTER the law of Moses to be saved or circumcision that was to be a sign of purity and cleanliness but for medical and sexu.ality purpose. There're people who do not circumcise and are in Christ. Does that mean they impure or defiled? Certainly NOT! |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Alwaystrue(f): 8:00pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Goshen360:If you read my post carefully, you will see I said circumcision WAS seen as a sign of purity not IS. Now Christ makes us clean and pure before the Father: I Corinthians 1:30 30 God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. Colossians 2:11 11 When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature. That is where those men got it wrong. However, most people continually circumcise their sons now because they see it keeps the male area cleaner and less prone to infection and more sightly. It is still about purity but while in the OT, it was was a sign and evidence of their convenant God in their heart, but Christ shows it is of the heart that makes you clean. Goshen360: But remember, Christ came to call sinners to himself. Luke 5:32 & Mark 2:17. There's no point in those Judaizers trynna bring the Judaism, religion of the law of Moses into the New Testament. That religion of the law was fulfilled by Christ; there is nowhere in scriptures we are told to continue to keep them THROUGH Christ. If there is, show me the scripture(s). Romans 7:22,24-25 22 For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self [with my new nature]. 24-25 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 8:3-4 3 For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [subdued, overcame, deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice] 4 So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit]. Goshen360:There were things called ordinances which many of what is called ceremonial actions are hinged. The moral law handled principles. Hope to talk about thst in my discussion with Image. Goshen360: ...etc to make one righteous before God.By now you will know I never said keeping the law of Moses makes you righteous. I said belief in Christ who fulfilled the law is what makes you righteous and He fulfilled it the way it was to be fulfilled. Now we know the spirit is who guides us in all truth: Psalm 119:142 Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, And Your law is truth. John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; II Corinthians 3:14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Alwaystrue(f): 8:14pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
Goshen360: True, the law was given to show people their sins just as Paul said : Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Paul would not have known lust if not for the commandment that said do not covet. The law did not say lust not, but it is when we do not lust that we do not sin the sin of covetuousness. Do you get my drift now. Covetousness is a product of lust and idolatry a product of covetuousness Colossians 3:5. The law of Moses have been fulfilled in Christ who brought a better hope, liberty and grace to live above sin. This is by dealing with the heart then the actions will be right. He that does not covet his neighbours wife or lust after a woman is obeying the law after the inward man, but if he goes ahead to commmit the act of adultery, he will suffer the consequences of the law of sin and death especially if he does not repent. Paul said so. |
| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Nobody: 8:16pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
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| Re: Questions For Frosbel On Tithing by Alwaystrue(f): 8:28pm On Apr 01, 2013 |
@Goshen I will not want to extend this further so people can get the exact message. Now there are no irrelevances in what I added to my response to your initial question. The law as you said is a shadow which I explained, Christ gave the exact righteousness of the law and not the written code. II Corinthians 3:13-18 13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand. 16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. Being like Christ is a continuous process. Did you notice the twice spoken word there? THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT? When you understand that you will understand all said so far. Do you see anything wrong on bestiality? If you do or don't why? Yes, you got it that the essense of the tithe was to sustain the levites who were the ministers of the temple and that is what tithe does today for those who preach the gospel. It is for their upkeep to encourage them in their ministry and for their service and Paul used the OT to explain this even though Christ still endorsed it and you have accepted that. Even Paul expected wages from the Corinth church when he said he robbed other churches to do them service. You have still not told me why you will circumsize your sons. You only said you are not doing it according to the law of Moses which I agree so why do you do it? Tradition of men? |
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