Alwaystrue: @Goshen
I will not want to extend this further so people can get the exact message.
Now there are no irrelevances in what I added to my response to your initial question. The law as you said is a shadow which I explained, Christ gave the exact righteousness of the law and not the written code.

II Corinthians 3:13-18
13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ.

15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.
16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.
Being like Christ is a continuous process.

Do you see anything wrong on bestiality? If you do or don't why?


Yes, you got it that te essense of the tithe was to sustain the ministers of the temple and that s what tithe does today. It is for their upkeep to encourage them in their ministry and for their service and Paul used the OT to explain this even though Christ still endorsed it and you have accepted that.
Even Paul expected wages from the Corinth church when he said he robbed other churches to do them services.

You have still not told me why you will circumsize your sons. You only said you are not doing it according to the law of Moses which I agree so why do you do it? Tradition of men?

its a lie, the church can take care of the ministers without the curse of tithe.

christemmbassey: its a lie, the church can take care of the ministers without the curse of tithe.

I don't bother arguing with these people , they are lovers of MONEY.

christemmbassey: its a lie, the church can take care of the ministers without the curse of tithe.

So educate us on how giving a tithe/tenth to the ministers to care for their needs is now a curse. Also explain how you give to the ministers in your church.

Alwaystrue:
So educate us on how giving a tithe/tenth to the ministers to care for their needs is now a curse. Also explain how you give to the ministers in your church.

tithe as it is practice today is like Esau who prefered a plate of garri and soup to his birth rights, and the bicle calls him 'profain' person. Many of u pay tithe for selfish reasons because u expects a situation where u'll not have room enough to contain wealth. To u pp, what Christ did, did not include what so ever it is u are looking for, so because Christ failed u, u have to look for ur own way, because according to u, if a man must recieve blessings from God , he must practice judaism(tithe). And that to me is profainity.

christemmbassey: tithe as it is practice today is like Esau who prefered a plate of garri and soup to his birth rights, and the bicle calls him 'profain' person. Many of u pay tithe for selfish reasons because u expects a situation where u'll not have room enough to contain wealth. To u pp, what Christ did, did not include what so ever it is u are looking for, so because Christ failed u, u have to look for ur own way, because according to u, if a man must recieve blessings from God , he must practice judaism(tithe). And that to me is profainity.

Ok all you posted above there are emotions and possibly the way you were doing it if you ever did it then. Esau never preferred Garri and soup....see...even plainly written scriptures you still read your own meaning to it. I asked a question, how do you care for the needs of ministers in your church? Na simple question now?

Abraham was blessed before he even tithed, we tithe because we are blessed and we still increase on every side as God is not mocked. We also understand that those in the ministry and missions need all the help they can get as much as lies with us and we do it with joy. So @christembassy, as I said earlier, all you posted above is your own opinion, thought and sentiments.

frosbel:

I don't bother arguing with these people , they are lovers of MONEY.

If it was Jesus that said this then i would ve cried and cried and cried, but since its coming from just a mere mortal and self acclaimed teacher of the truth who is fallible, who has no power over my eternal destiny and whose words i cannot rely on as the complete truth, then its as good as dumped in the waste bin. The Holy Spirit remains my faithful guide into ALL TRUTH.

alexleo:

If it was Jesus that said this then i would ve cried and cried and cried, but since its coming from just a mere mortal and self acclaimed teacher of the truth who is fallible, who has no power over my eternal destiny and whose words i cannot rely on as the complete truth, then its as good as dumped in the waste bin. The Holy Spirit remains my faithful guide into ALL TRUTH.

The Holy Spirit is ONE, he cannot guide his children through multiple paths, he is not the author of confusion.

The mere fact that the Tithe is not practiced as was designed in the bible is a warning flag that it is false.

Do you know more than Paul, Peter, James, Jude etc who never for one second preached on the Tithe ?

The transparency in the collection of gifts and donations was perfect , the money was sent always to the needy, not for the building of men's empires and the maintenance thereof.

The Tithe is a LIE, period.

christemmbassey: tithe as it is practice today is like Esau who prefered a plate of garri and soup to his birth rights, and the bicle calls him 'profain' person. Many of u pay tithe for selfish reasons because u expects a situation where u'll not have room enough to contain wealth. To u pp, what Christ did, did not include what so ever it is u are looking for, so because Christ failed u, u have to look for ur own way, because according to u, if a man must recieve blessings from God , he must practice judaism(tithe). And that to me is profainity.

clap for yourself christembassy....your presentation is baseless bros. It did not answer the question he asked you. May be you are one of the people that paid tithe with that mindset and easily stopped when the full store house wasnt coming forth. You people are just trying hard to force your personal views down our throat. It wont work. I insist on the Holy Spirit.

frosbel:

The Holy Spirit is ONE, he cannot guide his children through multiple paths, he is not the author of confusion.

The mere fact that the Tithe javascript:void(0);is not practiced as was designed in the bible is a warning flag that it is false.

Do you know more than Paul, Peter, James, Jude etc who never for one second preached on the Tithe ?

The transparency in the collection of gifts and donations was perfect , the money was sent always to the needy, not for the building of men's empires and the maintenance thereof.

The Tithe is a LIE, period.

The bold still remains only in your personal views as far as am concerned.
You people have not shown us where the apostles or Jesus condemned tithe. Shall we say they didnt remember that there was anything called tithe and for that reason they couldnt comment about it whether its good or bad? NO. It was mentioned in the new testament. So since it was mentioned, it means they knew about tithe and they didnt condemn it. Are you now more than them to condemn it outrightly?(same question you asked me i throw back to you my dear) Do i know more than Paul, Peter, James and Jude you asked me? My answer- Sorry, i dont even know at all thats why i must stick to the Holy Spirit who knows it all. Who also inspired these apostles to write, and since the apostles are not here to clarify this issue then i have to go to the originator of these words- THE HOLY SPIRIT AND NOT ANY OF YOU. THANKS.

alexleo:

The bold still remains only in your personal views as far as am concerned.
You people have not shown us where the apostles or Jesus condemned tithe. Shall we say they didnt remember that there was anything called tithe and for that reason they couldnt comment about it whether its good or bad? NO. It was mentioned in the new testament. So since it was mentioned, it means they knew about tithe and they didnt condemn it. Are you now more than them to condemn it outrightly?(same question you asked me i throw back to you my dear) Do i know more than Paul, Peter, James and Jude you asked me? My answer- Sorry, i dont even know at all thats why i must stick to the Holy Spirit who knows it all. Who also inspired these apostles to write, and since the apostles are not here to clarify this issue then i have to go to the originator of these words- THE HOLY SPIRIT AND NOT ANY OF YOU. THANKS.

Be careful when you use the name of the Holy Spirit before you blaspheme in ignorance.

The Holy Spirit cannot be leading MEN to diverse paths and confusing doctrines.

For example the Holy Spirit did not lead your church to prevent others from taking medicine, He also did not lead your church to quite erroneously prevent members from marrying other believers to mention just a few issues.

The clearest way to follow GOD is to throw away the traditions and dogmas of MAN.

Alwaystrue:

@Goshen

Being like Christ is a continuous process. Did you notice the twice spoken word there? THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT? When you understand that you will understand all said so far.

Do you see anything wrong on bestiality? If you do or don't why?


Yes, you got it that the essense of the tithe was to sustain the levites who were the ministers of the temple and that is what tithe does today for those who preach the gospel. It is for their upkeep to encourage them in their ministry and for their service and Paul used the OT to explain this even though Christ still endorsed it and you have accepted that. Even Paul expected wages from the Corinth church when he said he robbed other churches to do them service.

You have still not told me why you will circumsize your sons. You only said you are not doing it according to the law of Moses which I agree so why do you do it? Tradition of men?

In the highlight of the above, you completely missed the point. Paul NEVER endorsed tithe neither did Christ. I will further explain that verse. There are TWO poles away from each other. I do not have much time for for now but will come back later to deal with this from the verse you're referring to. I never accepted Paul said that neither did I accepted that. You can quote me where I accepted it if I actually did or you go back to read what I said.

You will see there're two different poles being used in comparison by Paul and NEVER mentioned tithe at all, it's you tithe teachers that are reading 'tithe' into that passage. A careful examination says otherwise. Think about it, everywhere tithe was instructed, it was clearly mentioned, why then would Paul endorse tithe without mentioning tithe?

I will be right back.

frosbel:

Be careful when you use the name of the Holy Spirit before you blaspheme in ignorance.

The Holy Spirit cannot be leading MEN to diverse paths and confusing doctrines.

For example the Holy Spirit did not lead your church to prevent others from taking medicine, He also did not lead your church to quite erroneously prevent members from marrying other believers to mention just a few issues.

The clearest way to follow GOD is to throw away the traditions and dogmas of MAN.

And if there is any good thing that i ll say you,Frosbel, did for me, it is dragging me out of Churchianity and i thank you for that. If you check my post in recent past i dont talk much about my church, my church. Its now more about Jesus. Why? Remember you ve always mentioned to me in some of my posts to concentrate on Jesus than church traditions. Do you know why i accepted your message? CONVICTION BY THIS SAME HOLY SPIRIT AM TELLING YOU ABOUT AND YOU ARE TRYING TO DRAG ME AWAY FROM HIM. NO BROS. Honestly am grateful to you for dragging me out of churchianity and i can tell you am also dragging people in my church out of it now in my own branch. Three weeks ago, in one of our meetings i stood up and spoke against this my church, my church mentality in our church and told them to remember its all about JESUS and not church. By the time i finished, come and see people agreeing with what i said. YOU, FROSBEL SPOKE THIS WORDS TO ME, THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVINCED ME THAT TRULY ITS ALL ABOUT JESUS. NOW, YOU VE SPOKEN THIS ONE AND AM TELLING YOU THAT I HAVE NO CONVICTION TO STOP IT. THEN LEAVE IT AT THAT. THANKS MY BROTHER.

In the light of what i ve said, pls note that whenever am discussing with you or anybody here am not doing it on the platform of my church. This also does not mean that i hate my church or am trying to be a rebel there. GOD FORBID.

alexleo:

YOU, FROSBEL SPOKE THIS WORDS TO ME, THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVINCED ME THAT TRULY ITS ALL ABOUT JESUS. NOW, YOU VE SPOKEN THIS ONE AND AM TELLING YOU THAT I HAVE NO CONVICTION TO STOP IT. THEN LEAVE IT AT THAT. THANKS MY BROTHER.

In the light of what i ve said, pls note that whenever am discussing with you or anybody here am not doing it on the platform of my church. This also does not mean that i hate my church or am trying to be a rebel there. GOD FORBID.

Thank you for your humility, may God increase my humility and make all of us more gentle and soft.

I am very passionate about this tithe issue because of the destruction it has done to many many lives and my conviction as a Christian that it is wrong.

When I make some harsh comments, it is not for people like you, but those who intentionally fleece God's sheep while pretending to be doing them a favor and those who think God is a money doubler and a means to achieve their greedy goals. . It just gets to me so badly and I take it personal.

For example. a mother has no food in the home and her children are almost n.aked, there is no heating or electricity etc, yet this same woman will go to church for prayer , only to be asked by the Pastor to pay her last kobo in tithes so that God will send down help .

This is wrong and horribly so, the money collected in church should be used to meet the needs of this woman and people like her. Does God eat dollar , Naira or pounds ?

"If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be that person?" - 1 John 3:17

We need to start redirecting most of the money we collect in 'church ' to meet the needs of the poor , so that we may fulfill the biblical injunction below :

"that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales" - Acts 4:34

OR

" Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." - Matthew 19:21

^ ^ ....and the same Church(es) will not take contributions FOR THE SAINTS who are poor in their midst as stated in scriptures. Abeg make I go work and make me some money before I go late in the name of tithe. I will come back and finish the tearing down of tithe doctrine for Christians.

Alwaystrue:
Garyarnold says he gives between 30-50% and that includes church. He is giving in percentages based on his understanding however many who are hailing you about not tithing call tithe a burden. If 10% is a burden and they are telling you they give more, what are they saying? That is the hypocrisy of the antither.

You are mistaken. I do NOT give in percentages. I was recently asked in another blog how much I give, so I went back over the past several months and worked out the percentage. I don't think percentages when I give. The Spirit leads my giving. Period. How can anyone possibly know if they are giving what God wants them to give if they don't let His Spirit lead them?

For me to give 10% would be easy, not a burden. But I know many who would be burdened even giving 1%. That's why tithing should NEVER be taught to Christians. It is a burden to the poor, and gives the well-to-do a false sense they are giving the proper amount when just maybe the Spirit would have lead them to give two or three times as much.

This blog is really amazing. It is hard to understand how so many are so ignorant of the scriptures. You can show them the scriptures all day long, but their mind is stuck in neutral. They are blinded by God's own words.

Since tithers don't like God's definition for His tithe, they change it to make them happy. Since they aren't farmers, they change it to fit their own circumstances. They think their definition of the tithe is better than God's. Wow!

Copied from page 13 of my book - from Leviticus Chapter 27:

30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.

The grain from the soil or fruit from the trees would be classified as assets. The sale or
exchange of these items would result in income.

32And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under
the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

The animals tithed are also classified as assets. The sale or exchange of the animals
would result in income.

Therefore, it is plain to see, by definition, not interpretation, God’s command to tithe was on assets, not income. Notice also that those assets came from God’s labor, not man’s
labor. I have already shown that they had money, income, and markets to buy and sell.

^^^

Nice exposition.

Why do pastors say you should tithe from your gross income when the Bible shows the Israelites tithed on the NET crops, not the gross. The Bible shows that Abram tithed from the NET spoils, not the gross spoils. Is it just plain greed on the pastors part? Is it their love of money? Or what? Do they not study the scriptures to where they understand how the tithe worked?

Here's what the scriptures tell us:

Abram’s tithe:
Genesis 14:20 (KJV) And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Hebrews 7:4 (KJV) Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Genesis 14:24 (KJV) Save only that which the young men have eaten….

Abram gave to King Melchizedek a tenth of the spoils THAT WERE LEFT after subtracting out the food that had already be eaten from the spoils. Therefore, Abram gave a tenth from the NET spoils, not the gross spoils.

The Levitical tithe:
Leviticus 27:30 (KJV) And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 23:22 (KJV) And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.
Nehemiah 10:37 (KJV) And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.

We start with the gross (total) crops, subtract the amount left at the corners and any gleaning of the harvest, and also subtract the firstfruits that were taken to the priests, and then tithe from the net amount.

Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Deuteronomy 14:23 (KJV) And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.

We start with the gross, or total number of new born animals during the year, remove the firstlings that were to be eaten at the festival, and tithe from the net by tithing the last one out of every ten counted under the rod.

So where does this tithing from "gross income" come from? Where does tithing from "income" come from?

Study the history of tithing in the Christian Church, and you will find the answer.

To the pro-Tithe folks, pls I'm still waiting on how you should or not should tithe ur proceeds....

Simple question: can I use tenth of my annual income to buy cow and eat it with my family and share it amongst the pastors of the church ... Will this qualify as tithe?

If yes, is it ok to do this on yearly basis as opposed to monthly basis widely preached in Nigerian churches?

garyarnold:

You are mistaken. I do NOT give in percentages. I was recently asked in another blog how much I give, so I went back over the past several months and worked out the percentage. I don't think percentages when I give. The Spirit leads my giving. Period. How can anyone possibly know if they are giving what God wants them to give if they don't let His Spirit lead them?

For me to give 10% would be easy, not a burden. But I know many who would be burdened even giving 1%. That's why tithing should NEVER be taught to Christians. It is a burden to the poor, and gives the well-to-do a false sense they are giving the proper amount when just maybe the Spirit would have lead them to give two or three times as much.

What about the widow of zarepath and the widows mite don't you realize it is a burden to them? GIVINGS ARE MOST TIMES COSTLY TO BELIEVERS WHO ARE CONSISTENT IN THEIR WALK WITH JESUS...I KNOW RESILIENT CHRISTIANS WHO GAVE TILl THEY GO BROKE..THEY NEVER BACKSLIDDED IN THEIR GIVINGS AND I BELIEVE GOD SEES AND HONOURS THEIR GIVINGS...EXAMPLES ABOUND IN SCRIPTURES ABOUT THE PHILIPPIANS AND MACEDONIANS WHO PARTNERED WITH PAUL TILL THEY GO BROKE...Spare us your hypocritical sermons..you can fool the rest not me.

Point of correction tithing is more or less a burden to the rich NOT to the poor..If i earn 100 million bucks as a smart business man i'd rather engage my one million to make more than give it to the Church..that's the way Babylonian systems works..but a poor man who earns 10,000 giving GOD 1000 IS easy AND NEVER A BURDEN.

Bidam: What about the widow of zarepath and the widows mite don't you realize it is a burden to them? GIVINGS ARE MOST TIMES COSTLY TO BELIEVERS WHO ARE CONSISTENT IN THEIR WALK WITH JESUS...I KNOW RESILIENT CHRISTIANS WHO GAVE TILl THEY GO BROKE..THEY NEVER BACKSLIDDED IN THEIR GIVINGS AND I BELIEVE GOD SEES AND HONOURS THEIR GIVINGS...EXAMPLES ABOUND IN SCRIPTURES ABOUT THE PHILIPPIANS AND MACEDONIANS WHO PARTNERED WITH PAUL TILL THEY GO BROKE...Spare us your hypocritical sermons..you can fool the rest not me.

Was Paul rich at the expense of those people who went broke? Please, with Scriptures. Let see if these apostles plus including frosbel who wrote these things below are hypocrites.

"If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be that person?" - 1 John 3:17

to meet the needs of the poor , so that we may fulfill the biblical injunction below :

"that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales" - Acts 4:34

alexleo:

The bold still remains only in your personal views as far as am concerned.
You people have not shown us where the apostles or Jesus condemned tithe. Shall we say they didnt remember that there was anything called tithe and for that reason they couldnt comment about it whether its good or bad? NO. It was mentioned in the new testament. So since it was mentioned, it means they knew about tithe and they didnt condemn it. Are you now more than them to condemn it outrightly?(same question you asked me i throw back to you my dear) Do i know more than Paul, Peter, James and Jude you asked me? My answer- Sorry, i dont even know at all thats why i must stick to the Holy Spirit who knows it all. Who also inspired these apostles to write, and since the apostles are not here to clarify this issue then i have to go to the originator of these words- THE HOLY SPIRIT AND NOT ANY OF YOU. THANKS.

I have some questions for you. I believe you would answer me like Paul who is filled would do.

Since Christ and the apostles never condemned tithe and they did not tell us to tithe, does it mean that it does not matter if we teach people to pay tithe or not to pay tithe.

alexleo:

The bold still remains only in your personal views as far as am concerned.
You people have not shown us where the apostles or Jesus condemned tithe. Shall we say they didnt remember that there was anything called tithe and for that reason they couldnt comment about it whether its good or bad? NO. It was mentioned in the new testament. So since it was mentioned, it means they knew about tithe and they didnt condemn it. Are you now more than them to condemn it outrightly?(same question you asked me i throw back to you my dear) Do i know more than Paul, Peter, James and Jude you asked me? My answer- Sorry, i dont even know at all thats why i must stick to the Holy Spirit who knows it all. Who also inspired these apostles to write, and since the apostles are not here to clarify this issue then i have to go to the originator of these words- THE HOLY SPIRIT AND NOT ANY OF YOU. THANKS.

I have some questions for you. I believe you would answer me like Paul who is filled would do.

Since Christ and the apostles never condemned tithe and they did not tell us to tithe, does it mean that it does not matter if we teach people to pay tithe or not to pay tithe.

alexleo:

clap for yourself christembassy....your presentation is baseless bros. It did not answer the question he asked you. May be you are one of the people that paid tithe with that mindset and easily stopped when the full store house wasnt coming forth. You people are just trying hard to force your personal views down our throat. It wont work. I insist on the Holy Spirit.

why is it that anytime u ppl are face to face with TRUTH, u cry for help cy accusing us of FORCING OUR PERSONAL OPIPINIONS ON YOU? Whether u like it or not, the truth is, TITHE WAS CANCELED BY THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST, IF U PRACTICE IT, TO U, CHRIST HAD NOT DIED AND URE STILL IN UR SINS.

Goshen360:

In the highlight of the above, you completely missed the point. Paul NEVER endorsed tithe neither did Christ. I will further explain that verse. There are TWO poles away from each other. I do not have much time for for now but will come back later to deal with this from the verse you're referring to. I never accepted Paul said that neither did I accepted that. You can quote me where I accepted it if I actually did or you go back to read what I said.

Goshen360:

^
Okay. Given that it is true Jesus approved tithe. I give you that as a bonus for purpose of reasoning the scriptures. Under what did Jesus approved tithe? Isn't it clear from the very scriptures you quoted that it is a matter of the law NO?

I said Jesus endorsed tithe and you accepted that, so that is where you said it, I had a vague idea you said that before I posted my comment.

Goshen360:
You will see there're two different poles being used in comparison by Paul and NEVER mentioned tithe at all, it's you tithe teachers that are reading 'tithe' into that passage. A careful examination says otherwise. Think about it, everywhere tithe was instructed, it was clearly mentioned, why then would Paul endorse tithe without mentioning tithe?
I will be right back.

There is nothing like poles apart, you refuse to see it because you keep holding to the letter of the law. Abraham understood the intent of tithe even before the law came to be, Jesus never condemned it despite the fact he spoke about true interpretation of the law in many instances on adultery, sabath, almsgiving, honour to parents; even you accepted that in your very own quote above; Paul understood the principle too and quoted the very law you said is done away with because he knew the essence and the law of the spirit:

I Corinthians 9:3-4,8,11,13-14
3  This is my [real ground of] defense (my vindication of myself) to those who would put me on trial and cross-examine me. 4  Have we not the right to our food and drink [at the expense of the churches]?

8  Do I say this only on human authority and as a man reasons? Does not the Law endorse the same principle?

11  If we have sown [the seed of] spiritual good among you, [is it too] much if we reap from your material benefits?

13-14 13  Do you not know that those men who are employed in the services of the temple get their food from the temple? And that those who tend the altar share with the altar [in the offerings brought]? 14  [On the same principle] the Lord directed that those who publish the good news (the Gospel) should live (get their maintenance) by the Gospel.


II Corinthians 11:8
Other churches I have robbed by accepting [more than their share of] support for my ministry [from them in order] to serve you.


If you cannot understand this simply even with Jesus endorsement of tithe despite your acceptance, the issue will keep oscillating.


You have two unanswered questions:
1. Why will you circumcise your sons?

2. What do you see about bestiality (sex with animals)? Is it wrong or right and why?

alexleo:

And if there is any good thing that i ll say you,Frosbel, did for me, it is dragging me out of Churchianity and i thank you for that. If you check my post in recent past i dont talk much about my church, my church. Its now more about Jesus. Why? Remember you ve always mentioned to me in some of my posts to concentrate on Jesus than church traditions. Do you know why i accepted your message? CONVICTION BY THIS SAME HOLY SPIRIT AM TELLING YOU ABOUT AND YOU ARE TRYING TO DRAG ME AWAY FROM HIM. NO BROS. Honestly am grateful to you for dragging me out of churchianity and i can tell you am also dragging people in my church out of it now in my own branch. Three weeks ago, in one of our meetings i stood up and spoke against this my church, my church mentality in our church and told them to remember its all about JESUS and not church. By the time i finished, come and see people agreeing with what i said. YOU, FROSBEL SPOKE THIS WORDS TO ME, THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVINCED ME THAT TRULY ITS ALL ABOUT JESUS. NOW, YOU VE SPOKEN THIS ONE AND AM TELLING YOU THAT I HAVE NO CONVICTION TO STOP IT. THEN LEAVE IT AT THAT. THANKS MY BROTHER.

In the light of what i ve said, pls note that whenever am discussing with you or anybody here am not doing it on the platform of my church. This also does not mean that i hate my church or am trying to be a rebel there. GOD FORBID.

for this one? 100%, God bless you.. Now i know u are not supporting tithe because u believe in it, but rather because the holy spirit has not yet convict you eventhough u started paying tithe without waiting for the conviction of the holy spirit, thats by the way. Now have you ever consider that they use the word 'PAY' when it comes to tithe? Again, why MUST i pay for anything when Christ had PAID ALL? I commit you to the class room of the holy spirit. God bless u plenty.

christemmbassey: Now have you ever consider that they use the word 'PAY' when it comes to tithe? Again, why MUST i pay for anything when Christ had PAID ALL?

True, why do we pay those who do things or render services for us, why do we pay school fees for our kids afterall Christ paid all and paid for the teacher's knowledge, why do we pay trainers when we go for professional training when Christ paid all and it is not their knowledge. Infact why do we pay for food since afterall, the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof. Why do we pay dowry, since Christ bought the bride with his blood.

I Corinthians 9:11-12
11  If we have sown [the seed of] spiritual good among you, [is it too] much if we reap from your material benefits? 12  If others share in this rightful claim upon you, do not we [have a still better and greater claim]?

Why did Paul tell the Corinthians he was using the wages/pay of other churches to do them service?

For your information, you give or pay tithe:

Hebrews 7:2
2 Then Abraham took a tenth of all he had captured in battle and gave it to Melchizedek.

II Chronicles 31:4-5
4 Moreover he commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give the portion of the priests and the Levites, that they might be encouraged in the law of the Lord.

5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.


The word is not the problem, it is the heart.

frosbel:

Thank you for your humility, may God increase my humility and make all of us more gentle and soft.

I am very passionate about this tithe issue because of the destruction it has done to many many lives and my conviction as a Christian that it is wrong.

When I make some harsh comments, it is not for people like you, but those who intentionally fleece God's sheep while pretending to be doing them a favor and those who think God is a money doubler and a means to achieve their greedy goals. . It just gets to me so badly and I take it personal.

For example. a mother has no food in the home and her children are almost n.aked, there is no heating or electricity etc, yet this same woman will go to church for prayer , only to be asked by the Pastor to pay her last kobo in tithes so that God will send down help .

This is wrong and horribly so, the money collected in church should be used to meet the needs of this woman and people like her. Does God eat dollar , Naira or pounds ?

"If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be that person?" - 1 John 3:17

We need to start redirecting most of the money we collect in 'church ' to meet the needs of the poor , so that we may fulfill the biblical injunction below :

"that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales" - Acts 4:34

OR

" Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." - Matthew 19:21

me too i mistook bro Alex for the traders in our fathers house. I also teach against tithe with fiery passion, in my former church one blessed sunday morning, one sister asked a question that made me to give tithe a very deep study during which i had so much revelations, and the question was - if you are on the way to pay ur tithe and along the way you meet a brother in a situation of life and death, should you use the 'tithe money' to save the brother, or allow the brother to die and go to pay ur tithe? Their conclussion was that, tithe is holy unto God, dont touch it no matter the situation. I never heard anything as satanib, calous, wicked, selfish and more foolish than that. I thank God in our church Living Water, we dont collect tithe and no one is staving. Peace

christemmbassey: me too i mistook bro Alex for the traders in our fathers house. I also teach against tithe with fiery passion, in my former church one blessed sunday morning, one sister asked a question that made me to give tithe a very deep study during which i had so much revelations, and the question was - if you are on the way to pay ur tithe and along the way you meet a brother in a situation of life and death, should you use the 'tithe money' to save the brother, or allow the brother to die and go to pay ur tithe? Their conclussion was that, tithe is holy unto God, dont touch it no matter the situation. I never heard anything as satanib, calous, wicked, selfish and more foolish than that. I thank God in our church Living Water, we dont collect tithe and no one is staving. Peace

Pity and that is why Jesus gave the perfect answer:

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Have mercy first but still remember that you should give to support the ministry. It was as simple as that. You keep picking the letter of the law, touch not, don't do this etc?

So if you were going to pay your child's school fees, or you had to give to your parents and you met a a brother between life and death on the way, would you help him or not?
What of if by example your family were starving and were waiting for the money to buy food what will you do if you meet such brother?
It is always when you are carrrying tithe that you meet such people abi?

If you help, would that stop you from doing what you are to do? Why is it the tithe that is the culprit?

However you answer the question will show exactly what is in your heart.

^^^^^


Wow !!

I wonder what your agenda is and why you have to use a different id to make your point.

We will keep on till many more have been freed from this LIE.

the heart of the matter is a matter of the heart. Indeed, well said ma'am.