UjSizzle:
Hmmm

I sent you a pm... in need of GOT E-BOOKS... balogunsamuel155@gmail.com

Emmyk:

I'm addicted. I told a lot and still tell, about the series, I make them watch the series.

Guess I'm not a sucker for characters' names in series, especially when they are much, like GOT's.

Abi?....guess so

jmaine:
Jamie is seriously pissed with his sis, but duty to family and love will see to his demise defending Queen Cercie

I don't think so. You know it appears Jamie arrived at the coronation.

Seeing cersei on the throne meant his last child was dead.

Thats the look they shared.

Endy10:


A big no to supernatural. I grew tired after season 10. The producers say there is no end in sight. I'm tired of watching something that doesn't have a climax

You even tried sef. Just started downloading season 11. Really I can't even watch it I just save it for a rainy day. I watched season 10 on fast forward. Looking for scenes that look interesting.

Boo hoo supernatural.

IamOpemipo:


A very great show, badass man Walter white, dnt let the simplicity @ d beginin of the show fool u tho, breakin bad is fuckin addictive

As in. I downloaded one season after I watched it half way I downloaded the entire series.

It's lovely in simplicity of the hustle. The breaking bad of Walter white.

Lovely series.

semitunde:


What will it be spitting out? Ice flame?

Lol. Very likely.

armadeo:


As in. I downloaded one season after I watched it half way I downloaded the entire series.

It's lovely in simplicity of the hustle. The breaking bad of Walter white.

Lovely series.

Hahha..bro u dey blood o, halfway and u downloaded the whole series! Man u did d rite tin, u'll neva regret wat u did, guess wat?? I'm startin all ova again frm season one, i'd rada watch series like breakin bad and GOT all ova dan beginin one below par series, I wnt lie got and BB have set a standard none of these series can meet, stil open to option sha o, if u gt any sure series I can stat watchin, pls recommend any, cos av been idle since the end of season 6 of GOT

Bless up!

Nihilist:


The same guys that elected Jon Snow ended up publicly executing him , so what exactly is your point?

If you look at each of the events I've mentioned, you will see that generally people just don't seem to believe in Jon for whatever reason.

Take the Wildlings for example. Jon warned them of white walkers which gave some of them time to escape. He defied customs that had stood for centuries by allowing the wildlings beyond the wall for their personal safety, and even lost his life for this decision in the process!

Yet the wildlings were still reluctant to fight for him until Tormmund yet again had to intercede

Sansa, his own sister was prepared for him for him to ride his men to certain death , rather than hand him control of the Vale armies.

One event could be bad luck. 2 could be coincidence. 3 is a trend.

Just to confirm that I'm not mad, I Googled 'Jon Snow is a Terrible leader' and found all sorts of publications agreeing with me for the EXACT same reasons I've given - from NY times to Playboy.

I know the guy is a popular character, but I thought it would be pretty obvious that he has severe leadership flaws.

Finally, I really don't appreciate your final sentence saying I'm arguing for arguments sake. I have had to remind you a couple of times now. Attack my argument, not my person. If you feel you are incapable of doing this, then don't quote me. I can be quite nasty myself.

Are you saying that no one voted for Thorne? Because doesn't it make more sense to reason that it was those that voted for Thorne that executed him.

How can they fight for him when it wasn't their war? Do you carry your sword and fight for anyone just because you like them? The agreement was to fight against the WW. It is very foolish to fight a war that you have no business fighting.

Won't you agree with me that the custom is a suseless custom? The wall wasn't put up because of Wildlings, it was put up against those who wish to do them harm. And the Wildlings right now do not fall in that category.

You say he is a bad leader and no one believes in him yet he was ELECTED lord commander. And now, king in the north.

Nihilist:


I'm beginning to think that it is impossible to have either a civil and/or a measured discussion about this show.
I'm not sure that if I should be continuing this discussion, if after reading multiple posts of mine discussing just one particular facet of Jon Snow's character traits, your conclusion is that I hate Jon Snow...and for NO reason.

I remember I raised this point a few pages back:



I was reading an interview with Sophie Turner, and this is what she had to say:


http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-spoilers-jon-sansa-littlefinger-marry-theory-sophie-turner-1201805047/


Another interview with Sansa here:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820



Now listen to Kit Harrington himself on Jon Snow:



I don't hate Jon Snow, but I think he's a disastrous leader. Pre-BoB, he had only really been trusted as a leader by an immature child and an ignorant wildling. That's why I could not understand why the Nothern Lords were so eager to trust him. Shikena.

Didn't the nights watch elect him lord commander? Maester Aemon had the last vote and voted for him. Is Maester Aemon an immature child too? And those that killed him obviously weren't those that voted for him

Nihilist:


I may have to be more discriminating when deciding to who to respond to in future

I will try and answer your post, not because I believe it is of any particular value or worth replying, but just to show how events as they happened are considered irrelevant, when the defence of a beloved character is of utmost concern. Seems like even the facts are not allowed to get in the way of your narrative

For instance.


This is a bold faced lie.

Lord Glover on why he refused to answer Jon -

"Yes, my family served House Stark for centuries. We wept when we heard of your father's death. When my brother was Lord of this castle he answered Robb's call and hailed him King in the North! And where was "King" Robb when the Ironborn attacked this castle? When they threw my wife and children in prison and brutalized and killed our subjects? Taking up with a foreign wh0re... getting himself and those who followed him killed."

You can see that Glover is clearly questioning Stark Leadership here....No mention of the word 'Bastard'

Lord Manderly on why he refused to answer Jon -

""Lady Mormont speaks harshly... and truly. My son died for Robb Stark, the Young Wolf. I didn't think we'd find another king in my lifetime. I didn't commit my men to your cause because I didn't want more Manderlys dying for nothing."

Again the questions of leadership is raised, framed against a concern that Jon would have the Manderlys die for nothing'

Both Lords are very particular in pointing out that the safety of their men was of utmost priority, and neither one of them felt that Jon could guarantee their continued safety.



Another bold faced lie. Davos never sold Jon to Lyanna as a great leader. Instead he appealed to her instinct for self-preservation.

His speech below

"Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow both understood that the real war isn't between a few squabbling houses. It's between the living and the dead. And make no mistake my lady, the dead are coming."
As long as the Boltons hold Winterfell, the North is divided. And a divided North won't stand a chance against the Night King. You want to protect your people my lady, I understand. But there's no hiding from this. We have to fight. And we need to do it together"


I agree...which is why I did not focus on that in isolation. Like I said, he saved some of them from the whitewalkers and then offered them sanctuary at Castle Black doing away with a tradition that has held several centuries, and at the expense of his own life...yet these guys are still reluctant to fight for him at Winterfell. He has made enormous sacrifices to keep the wildlings alive, and yet was still unable to muster their loyalty without help- HOW COME?


This is exactly the point. The Lord Commander of the night's watch perfomed an noble act that was morally right. Yet his subordinates disagreed so strongly with his decision that they actually chose to MURDER HIM. If that is not the biggest exhibit of a lack of faith in his leadership, then I don't know what is.

I'm done with this debate. I cannot continue to repeat myself and deal with the same non-coherent arguments time and again.

No vex bo

Lord commander Monmouth was murdered too. Are you saying he was murdered because he was a bad leader?

Nihilist:


I may have to be more discriminating when deciding to who to respond to in future

I will try and answer your post, not because I believe it is of any particular value or worth replying, but just to show how events as they happened are considered irrelevant, when the defence of a beloved character is of utmost concern. Seems like even the facts are not allowed to get in the way of your narrative

For instance.


This is a bold faced lie.

Lord Glover on why he refused to answer Jon -

"Yes, my family served House Stark for centuries. We wept when we heard of your father's death. When my brother was Lord of this castle he answered Robb's call and hailed him King in the North! And where was "King" Robb when the Ironborn attacked this castle? When they threw my wife and children in prison and brutalized and killed our subjects? Taking up with a foreign wh0re... getting himself and those who followed him killed."

You can see that Glover is clearly questioning Stark Leadership here....No mention of the word 'Bastard'

Stark leadership not jons, and he had no right to question stark leadership because it was his bloody castle and everyone was off to war.
The young wolf didn't get everyone killed, he took them to a wedding... It was the boltons, the freys that killed them all..

Lord Manderly on why he refused to answer Jon -

""Lady Mormont speaks harshly... and truly. My son died for Robb Stark, the Young Wolf. I didn't think we'd find another king in my lifetime. I didn't commit my men to your cause because I didn't want more Manderlys dying for nothing."

Again the questions of leadership is raised, framed against a concern that Jon would have the Manderlys die for nothing'

Jons leadership wasn't questioned here, the lord was just skeptical, Jon didn't have the army and to him it didn't seem like jon had a chance of winning

Both Lords are very particular in pointing out that the safety of their men was of utmost priority, and neither one of them felt that Jon could guarantee their continued safety.

Every lord would take their men's safety as utmost priority, they didn't feel jon couldn't protect their men, They feared he didn't have the men to win.

Another bold faced lie. Davos never sold Jon to Lyanna as a great leader. Instead he appealed to her instinct for self-preservation.

His speech below

"Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow both understood that the real war isn't between a few squabbling houses. It's between the living and the dead. And make no mistake my lady, the dead are coming."
As long as the Boltons hold Winterfell, the North is divided. And a divided North won't stand a chance against the Night King. You want to protect your people my lady, I understand. But there's no hiding from this. We have to fight. And we need to do it together"

He outrightly sold jon as a great leader, Only a great leader could see beyond the fights against a few squabbling houses and want to unite everyone to fight a greater enemy, that's why he led the wildlings past the wall in the first place

I agree...which is why I did not focus on that in isolation. Like I said, he saved some of them from the whitewalkers and then offered them sanctuary at Castle Black doing away with a tradition that has held several centuries, and at the expense of his own life...yet these guys are still reluctant to fight for him at Winterfell. He has made enormous sacrifices to keep the wildlings alive, and yet was still unable to muster their loyalty without help- HOW COME?

You can't just walk up to the free folk and ask them to follow you to a fight that doesn't really concern them, you saved their lives on the condition that they would fight with you against the white walkers and they agreed, anybody would be relunctant.... also remember when jon was dead at the wall it was the free folk who unrelunctantly rushed there to avenge his death. Besides people would only follow you when you give them a strong reason to not because you did something for them.

This is exactly the point. The Lord Commander of the night's watch perfomed an noble act that was morally right. Yet his subordinates disagreed so strongly with his decision that they actually chose to MURDER HIM. If that is not the biggest exhibit of a lack of faith in his leadership, then I don't know what is.

Those men bore him no love, Ser alliser had already twisted their minds.

I'm done with this debate. I cannot continue to repeat myself and deal with the same non-coherent arguments time and again.

GOOD

Queen Cersei is in for some serious ass whooping I don't see how she can beat this

losprince:

Stark leadership not jons, and he had no right to question stark leadership because it was his bloody castle and everyone was off to war.
The young wolf didn't get everyone killed, he took them to a wedding... It was the boltons, the freys that killed them all..



Jons leadership wasn't questioned here, the lord was just skeptical, Jon didn't have the army and to him it didn't seem like jon had a chance of winning


Every lord would take their men's safety as utmost priority, they didn't feel jon couldn't protect their men, They feared he didn't have the men to win.



He outrightly sold jon as a great leader, Only a great leader could see beyond the fights against a few squabbling houses and want to unite everyone to fight a greater enemy, that's why he led the wildlings past the wall in the first place


You can't just walk up to the free folk and ask them to follow you to a fight that doesn't really concern them, you saved their lives on the condition that they would fight with you against the white walkers and they agreed, anybody would be relunctant.... also remember when jon was dead at the wall it was the free folk who unrelunctantly rushed there to avenge his death. Besides people would only follow you when you give them a strong reason to not because you did something for them.


Those men bore him no love, Ser alliser had already twisted their minds.


GOOD

It really irritates me how so many people have been quoting me to chat the weakest bollocks. If you made decent points, I would even concede, but your smug arrogant post is really based on nothing but an attempt to play around semantics.

Even when I quote the characters verbatim, it's not enough.

Glover said he didn't send any more men to the starks because Robb got himself and his men killed, and that's true. The red wedding happened because Robb reneged on a deal - a decision that his more politcally savvy mum and advisers warned would have serious consequences.

Before the broke the deal, Robb was warned. During the wedding itself , Lord Frey explains his motives for the murders. After the wedding, Glover blames Robb.

I cannot for the life of me understand how any right thinking person would try to even argue that point.


Again, Jon goes to Manderly to ask for men. Manderly refuses because he feels that if he sends his men with Jon, they will die for nothing. Again, I cannot see how this does not connote questioning of jon's Judgement. A leader says come with me, you refuse, but you're not questioning his leadership? You say Manderly is merely "skeptical". Check your dictionary for the meaning of that word, and you will find that it is 'synonymous' with the word 'questioning'!

The discussion with Lyanna is probably the clearest argument there. Jon came to ask for men for his own battle against Ramsay and got shut down quick. It was only when Davos raised the spectre of the white walkers coming for then all, that she decided to join them.

How can Aliser poison the minds of a group of subordinates against a leader that they trust? How? How?

Mate the post you quoted was not addressed to you. And if you have opposing views, then by all means share them on the thread. But please don't quote me to post such utter rubbish. Please don't waste my time.

armadeo:


I don't think so. You know it appears Jamie arrived at the coronation.

Seeing cersei on the throne meant his last child was dead.

Thats the look they shared.

I totally disagree. The look was that of disgust and astonishment. He knew Cercie killed a whole lot of people just for her selfish gain hence severing important allies which will eventually lead to chaos.

Unfathomable:



I'll have to agree with you on this...thinking Jon would always make decisions that would yield positive results is like making him all knowing, no human real or not is that perfect, I believe he's going through a process. Imagine sending the Red Witch away for killing Shireen, same woman who resurrected him? People like Daenerys, Ramsey, Stannis or Cersei wouldn't give a rat's arse whose child was killed as long the Red Witch still served a purpose to them. To some, twas a stupid move because he still has enemies around him eg Baelish, but Jon doesn't care..he must just do what he thinks is right. And like I said..,he never fought or struggled for any position he got...it always came to him, surely there must something about him that stands out. Such people are bound to have enemies, deadly ones.

stannis definitely would care
remember how the onion knight lost his finger? and his speech to the iron bank?
stannis go burn that red woman,she got off lightly.

I think the red woman will play lady stone heart part and she would meet the hound with the band of brothers and Brienne.

I also don't think the blackfish is dead.

I must say I didn't like how all the houses of the north just crown Jon snow like that.

Nihilist:


I may have to be more discriminating when deciding to who to respond to in future

I will try and answer your post, not because I believe it is of any particular value or worth replying, but just to show how events as they happened are considered irrelevant, when the defence of a beloved character is of utmost concern. Seems like even the facts are not allowed to get in the way of your narrative

For instance.


This is a bold faced lie.

Lord Glover on why he refused to answer Jon -

"Yes, my family served House Stark for centuries. We wept when we heard of your father's death. When my brother was Lord of this castle he answered Robb's call and hailed him King in the North! And where was "King" Robb when the Ironborn attacked this castle? When they threw my wife and children in prison and brutalized and killed our subjects? Taking up with a foreign wh0re... getting himself and those who followed him killed."

You can see that Glover is clearly questioning Stark Leadership here....No mention of the word 'Bastard'

Lord Manderly on why he refused to answer Jon -

""Lady Mormont speaks harshly... and truly. My son died for Robb Stark, the Young Wolf. I didn't think we'd find another king in my lifetime. I didn't commit my men to your cause because I didn't want more Manderlys dying for nothing."

Again the questions of leadership is raised, framed against a concern that Jon would have the Manderlys die for nothing'

Both Lords are very particular in pointing out that the safety of their men was of utmost priority, and neither one of them felt that Jon could guarantee their continued safety.



Another bold faced lie. Davos never sold Jon to Lyanna as a great leader. Instead he appealed to her instinct for self-preservation.

His speech below

"Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow both understood that the real war isn't between a few squabbling houses. It's between the living and the dead. And make no mistake my lady, the dead are coming."
As long as the Boltons hold Winterfell, the North is divided. And a divided North won't stand a chance against the Night King. You want to protect your people my lady, I understand. But there's no hiding from this. We have to fight. And we need to do it together"


I agree...which is why I did not focus on that in isolation. Like I said, he saved some of them from the whitewalkers and then offered them sanctuary at Castle Black doing away with a tradition that has held several centuries, and at the expense of his own life...yet these guys are still reluctant to fight for him at Winterfell. He has made enormous sacrifices to keep the wildlings alive, and yet was still unable to muster their loyalty without help- HOW COME?


This is exactly the point. The Lord Commander of the night's watch perfomed an noble act that was morally right. Yet his subordinates disagreed so strongly with his decision that they actually chose to MURDER HIM. If that is not the biggest exhibit of a lack of faith in his leadership, then I don't know what is.

I'm done with this debate. I cannot continue to repeat myself and deal with the same non-coherent arguments time and again.

No vex bo

Just to end this argument.
I don't think either of the houses would have committed men regardless of who was leading the charge. Their main concern was with losing more men, not that Jon was in charge. They never questioned his leadership, they questioned the cause.

Endy10:


Just to end this argument.
I don't think either of the houses would have committed men regardless of who was leading the charge. Their main concern was with losing more men, not that Jon was in charge. They never questioned his leadership, they questioned the cause.

I think this is a good enough point to end this argument Nihilist u think??

Nihilist:

It really irritates me how so many people have been quoting me to chat the weakest bollocks. If you made decent points, I would even concede, but your smug arrogant post is really based on nothing but an attempt to play around semantics.

Even when I quote the characters verbatim, it's not enough.

Glover said he didn't send any more men to the starks because Robb got himself and his men killed, and that's true. The red wedding happened because Robb reneged on a deal - a decision that his more politcally savvy mum and advisers warned would have serious consequences.

Before the broke the deal, Robb was warned. During the wedding itself , Lord Frey explains his motives for the murders. After the wedding, Glover blames Robb.

I cannot for the life of me understand how any right thinking person would try to even argue that point.


Again, Jon goes to Manderly to ask for men. Manderly refuses because he feels that if he sends his men with Jon, they will die for nothing. Again, I cannot see how this does not connote questioning of jon's Judgement. A leader says come with me, you refuse, but you're not questioning his leadership? You say Manderly is merely "skeptical". Check your dictionary for the meaning of that word, and you will find that it is 'synonymous' with the word 'questioning'!

The discussion with Lyanna is probably the clearest argument there. Jon came to ask for men for his own battle against Ramsay and got shut down quick. It was only when Davos raised the spectre of the white walkers coming for then all, that she decided to join them.

How can Aliser poison the minds of a group of subordinates against a leader that they trust? How? How?

Mate the post you quoted was not addressed to you. And if you have opposing views, then by all means share them on the thread. But please don't quote me to post such utter rubbish. Please don't waste my time.

in vary voice. Their r two perspectives urs n ours. Everybody have their strong n weak point clearly Jon snow is not a good speech giver n can always use people around like lyanna n service Davis. Glover n manderly didn't trust snow b.cus one he's a bastard n two his battle credential is unknown n thirdly he does not have fighter. Sorry to say but u already clouded ur judgement on him. He just proved himself to dem n dat is y dey named him dir king without him asking for it. Dany is considered a good leader by tyrion nko but have dey seen r fight? Go slow n Jon snow he his not perfect so does every leader u cannot expect him to b god. Look forward to nxt season on how he lead as a king dem throw ur sword @ him.

Endy10:


Just to end this argument.
I don't think either of the houses would have committed men regardless of who was leading the charge. Their main concern was with losing more men, not that Jon was in charge. They never questioned his leadership, they questioned the cause.

Abeg bro leave the guy. Glover even said house Stark is dead, why? Lady Mormont even mentioned it when she was counseled by her Maester that, Jon Snow is a bastard and even a man of the Night's watch, Sansa don marry Tyrion, marriee Bolton sef, tell me is house Stark not dead?? But they actually also use it as an excuse not to follow Jon, this is not a question about leadership at all, that's why i called the guy a Jon hater. Nobody questioned his leadership, those houses that didn't follow him were just thinking logically. Lyanna supported Jon with instinct, her maester would have told her not to, listen to Lyanna Mormont speech again when they declared Jon Snow a King. She said she doesn't care if he's a bastard. Your Glover that you are talking about sef ask for forgiveness for not commiting men to Jon's cause. You are just hating on a tv character whose Leadership was not questioned at anytime.

jmaine:


I totally disagree. The look was that of disgust and astonishment. He knew Cercie killed a whole lot of people just for her selfish gain hence severing important allies which will eventually lead to chaos.

the only thing shown on his face was surprise we all know how he felt about cersei n we can relate he left cersei when she was to face a trial n to his surprise came back to see r crown note he once said f.k thy enemies

Jon snow is no leader, yet he saved the wall from Mance when the wildlings attacked, when a former commander of the city watch was hiding with women and children, Jon snow is no leader yet he went beyond the wall willing to sacrifice himself to trade with Mance(his intention was killing him by the way knowing that would mean his death) Jon snow was chosen as Lord commander by the Nights watch, yet he wasn't a leader. Barely 3 thousand men agreed to follow him into a battle knowing the odds were against them, you only do that to a leader you believe in. And finally he was crowned King in the North because every body saw the leadership in him.
And quoting interviews from the actors themselves is very baseless because they just throw you off, Kit harrignton said so himself that he won't be coming back, that he was just there to shoot scenes of flash backs.

The question this Nihilist guy should ask is. Why does Jon Snow gets away with everything

SIRcumalot:

stannis definitely would care
remember how the onion knight lost his finger? and his speech to the iron bank?
stannis go burn that red woman,she got off lightly.

I think the red woman will play lady stone heart part and she would meet the hound with the band of brothers and Brienne.

I also don't think the blackfish is dead.

I must say I didn't like how all the houses of the north just crown Jon snow like that.

y not they need a king for the coming war. According 2 manderly Jon avenge d red wedding massacre he his d white wolf.

If the other houses didn't think jon was capable of leading them knowing fully well that he and his men were saved by the knights of the vale in the battle of the bastards, why are they rallying round him now and accepting him as the King in the north.

Why can't they still stand there ground with the same reasons they gave of not following him to battle that he won't be able to lead them as king.

What exceptional thing has jon done to convince them? Just the speech by the little Lyanna?

Please, I need link to download season 6. i have search tired

Thanks

ichommy:
Please, I need link to download season 6. i have search tired

Thanks

Just go to o2tvseries.com

oyetpel:
Just go to o2tvseries.com

Thank U Sir.

IamOpemipo:


Hahha..bro u dey blood o, halfway and u downloaded the whole series! Man u did d rite tin, u'll neva regret wat u did, guess wat?? I'm startin all ova again frm season one, i'd rada watch series like breakin bad and GOT all ova dan beginin one below par series, I wnt lie got and BB have set a standard none of these series can meet, stil open to option sha o, if u gt any sure series I can stat watchin, pls recommend any, cos av been idle since the end of season 6 of GOT

Bless up!

Currently series I watch that you may find interesting

Empire
Suits
Walking dead
Penny dreadful


My quirks

Greys anatomy
Big bang theory
The originals

armadeo:



Currently series I watch that you may find interesting

Empire
Suits
Walking dead
Penny dreadful


My quirks

Greys anatomy
Big bang theory
The originals

Quirks?abeg whats your definition of quirk as related to your usage.
If you watch Big Bang Theory,then chop Knuckle,Originals=Sabi Boi,Grey anatomy=WHY .Empire=I dash you hugs. No homo

Nihilist:

It really irritates me how so many people have been quoting me to chat the weakest bollocks. If you made decent points, I would even concede, but your smug arrogant post is really based on nothing but an attempt to play around semantics.

Even when I quote the characters verbatim, it's not enough.

Glover said he didn't send any more men to the starks because Robb got himself and his men killed, and that's true. The red wedding happened because Robb reneged on a deal - a decision that his more politcally savvy mum and advisers warned would have serious consequences.

Before the broke the deal, Robb was warned. During the wedding itself , Lord Frey explains his motives for the murders. After the wedding, Glover blames Robb.

I cannot for the life of me understand how any right thinking person would try to even argue that point.

What does this have to do with Jon snow? How does it show that Jon snow is a bad leader?

Again, Jon goes to Manderly to ask for men. Manderly refuses because he feels that if he sends his men with Jon, they will die for nothing. Again, I cannot see how this does not connote questioning of jon's Judgement. A leader says come with me, you refuse, but you're not questioning his leadership? You say Manderly is merely "skeptical". Check your dictionary for the meaning of that word, and you will find that it is 'synonymous' with the word 'questioning'!

The discussion with Lyanna is probably the clearest argument there. Jon came to ask for men for his own battle against Ramsay and got shut down quick. It was only when Davos raised the spectre of the white walkers coming for then all, that she decided to join them.

He wasn't questioning Jon's leadership. He didn't want his men to die anymore than they already have. You and i can agree that in war, men die from both sides. No matter if you win or lose. He doesn't know about Jon's leadership qualities because he has never seen him lead.

How can Aliser poison the minds of a group of subordinates against a leader that they trust? How? How?

Out of all your points, this is the most moot. You know that not everyone was in support of the Wildlings coming across the wall. Or are you saying Jon snow's decision to bring the Wildlings over was a bad one? Are the nights watch not the same people who killed Jon snow's predecessor? Or did they kill him too because he was a bad leader?

Mate the post you quoted was not addressed to you. And if you have opposing views, then by all means share them on the thread. But please don't quote me to post such utter rubbish. Please don't waste my time.

Sorry to say but the only rubbish is coming from your side of the conversation. When you Google something and see a POV then you decide to follow it religiously. Merely the fact that he was elected 2ice as head should already tell you that he is not a bad leader.

newguy1:
y not they need a king for the coming war. According 2 manderly Jon avenge d red wedding massacre he his d white wolf.

Jon becoming the leader of the north was always the end game it is the manner in which it was handled that am not so comfortable with,some of these guys pledging allegiance probably fought against Jon.
the excuses for the coming war is pale since only the wildlings and Jon have actually seen the whitewalkers the other northern lords haven't.
as for the red wedding avenging,the Frey's are still around to the best of the northern lords knowledge,except news of Arya's actions don reach the north.
the Lannisters are also still around.
plus the knight of the vale stole his thunder against the Bolton's

I don't want to sound like am nitpicking I like Jon snow as the king in the north I just wanted it to be airtight. the illegitimacy is still another issue.

SIRcumalot:

Jon becoming the leader of the north was always the end game it is the manner in which it was handled that am not so comfortable with,some of these guys pledging allegiance probably fought against Jon.
the excuses for the coming war is pale since only the wildlings and Jon have actually seen the whitewalkers the other northern lords haven't.
as for the red wedding avenging,the Frey's are still around to the best of the northern lords knowledge,except news of Arya's actions don reach the north.
the Lannisters are also still around.
plus the knight of the vale stole his thunder against the Bolton's

I don't want to sound like am nitpicking I like Jon snow as the king in the north I just wanted it to be airtight. the illegitimacy is still another issue.

They didn't fight against him. It was just 2 houses that did. The great ones. That is why Ramsay needed the fight to happen in the open so that he can show the rest that he is a good commander.

They might not have seen the WW but they believe him. Remember before hardhome, only Jon and Sam had seen them but they believed them anyway.