Beloved Brother Goshen, did you say the following

Goshen360: ^ The answer to your question is *NO*, that is*NOT* fornication. 


You will need to show us\me that fornication is sex.ual intercourse between *'unmarried people who are to marry each other'*. I have given you the meaning of fornication and it doesn't extend to people who wants to marry themselves, committed to marrying themselves.

in response to this

Alwaystrue: Based on the bible:

'Any unmarried man and woman who consent and decide to Be Intimate with each other since they plan to marry, are they planning to sin by being intimate before the marriage or not'

at this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1239719/questions-frosbel-tithing/9#15051861 ?

If you indeed did, could you please explain what you mean?

Abeg,no greek/hebrew debate for this thread o. I wan learn something.

*sits at a corner with a glass of water and my kjv*

fornication simply means illicit sex. It is not consensual sex between man and woman. As long as they are not cheating anyone or nature(unnatural sex), then it cannot be fornication.

Look up any bible dictionary/concordance. The popular definition of fornication that we all assume has no basis in scripture, it is simply a tradition passed down by the catholic church and adopted by the rest of "christianity"

^^ Am I to understand by that that sexx between a man and a woman who are not married to each other is not illicit?

And that this is because they are neither cheating on anybody nor going against nature?

By what token do you claim that they are

1. not cheating anyone?

2. not cheating nature?

---

While I do welcome yours and any other interested party's views on the matter, please keep in mind that this thread is primarily for Goshen360, to allow him to explain clearly what his position is.

okeyxyz: fornication simply means illicit sex. It is not consensual sex between man and woman. As long as they are not cheating anyone or nature(unnatural sex), then it cannot be fornication.

Look up any bible dictionary/concordance. The popular definition of fornication that we all assume has no basis in scripture, it is simply a tradition passed down by the catholic church and adopted by the rest of "christianity"

your name na goshen?

Ihedinobi: ^^ Am I to understand by that that sexx between a man and a woman who are not married to each other is not illicit?

Well, what is it illicit against?

And that this is because they are neither cheating on anybody nor going against nature?

By what token do you claim that they are

1. not cheating anyone?

2. not cheating nature?

I don't know anybody or natural laws they might be cheating by having consensual, heterosexual sex. Perhaps you can point them out for us. A married man\woman is bound by the law of marriage, but how do you imput marriage laws on people who have nothing to do with it? Under what terms or laws do you define this your fornication?

@ Ihedinobi,

Interestingly interesting! I love you my dear brother Ihedinobi. You see, some of our folks here thinks they wanna slander me when I say something they do not understand. This is because religion had eaten deep into too many people. I believe (my thought though but I might be wrong though under assumption) that Alwaystrue felt he was exposed or defeated when we're discussing tithing\tithe and later turned to result to slandering by bringing up the past issue on fornication as discussed in the past.

The reason I said I love you is that, Alwaystrue should have done what you did - by opening a new thread so we can trash this subject out but decided to result in slandering. However, I thank you for opening this thread even though I know it's gonna consume my time but I will endeavour to stand by this thread. I have to go to work now in this part of the world where I reside but I promise to attend to this thread fully by tomorrow morning when I wake up, by God's grace.

mumumugu: your name na goshen?

Goshen360: @ Ihedinobi,

Interestingly interestingly! I love you my dear brother Ihedinobi. You see, some of our folks here thinks they wanna slander me when I say something they do not understand. This is because religion had eaten deep into too many people. I believe (my thought) that Alwaystrue felt he was exposed or defeated when we're discussing tithing\tithe and later turned to result to slandering by bringing up the past issue on fornication as discussed in the past.

The reason I said I love you is that, Alwaystrue should have done what you did - by opening a new thread so we can trash this subject out but decided to result in slandering. However, I thank you for opening this thread even though I know it's gonna consume my time but I will endeavour to stand by this thread. I have to go to work now in this part of the world where I reside but I promise to attend to this thread fully by tomorrow morning when I wake up, by God's grace.

YOU LOVE WHO?


The face of nairaland gay. GOSHEN NO 1

mumumugu: your name na goshen?

Sorry bros, I was "high" and you know that "highness" makes a man chatty...

anukulapo: Abeg,no greek/hebrew debate for this thread o. I wan learn something.

*sits at a corner with a glass of water and my kjv*

You berrer go sleep and when you wake up, you will learn REALLL good and don't leave that your KJV that is confusing you you o because na that KJV dey do well past most times.

Also, Hebrew\Greek is the original language FROM which your KJV was translated from. Therefore, if KJV said something, it must mean what the Hebrew\Greek means. Come out of religion! There shall definitely be Hebrew\Greek concordance\dictioanry to get the meaning of word as used in all context. Lastly, fornication is a dangerous sin in the sight of God but what does it mean in the original language? And don't assume Hebrew\Greek will be wrong while your KJV will be right. I will be back tomorrow to get you out of religion.

mumumugu: YOU LOVE WHO?


The face of nairaland gay. GOSHEN NO 1

Please, don't read meaning into my words, I love him, my brother in the love of Christ. Simple!

@ Ihedinobi,

I have to go to work now please. I will attend to you and this thread tomorrow when I wake up. Thanks & God bless you! In the meantime, get yourself Hebrew\Greek concordance & dictionary and do some study before tomorrow and we come back and fellowship together. Thanks

okeyxyz:
Well, what is it illicit against?

Sir, if you intend to answer my questions, do so or else, leave well enough alone.

I asked you to clarify if you hold that sexx between two people not married to each other is not illicit. I believe it's a completely simple question with no traps in or around it.

I don't know anybody or natural laws they might be cheating by having consensual, heterosexual sex. Perhaps you can point them out for us. A married man\woman is bound by the law of marriage, but how do you imput marriage laws on people who have nothing to do with it? Under what terms or laws do you define this your fornication?

You are saying then that your ignorance of anyone or any natural law they'd be cheating with such a sexxual association is the reason you say that it does not?

That's a very poor reason.

Edited to include the italicized word which was accidentally omitted.

gosh, beware of puffed up knowledge. This is the letter in zoom mode BTW.

Ihedinobi:

Sir, if you intend to answer my questions, do so or else, leave well enough alone.

I asked you to clarify if you hold that sexx between two people not married to each other is illicit. I believe it's a completely simple question with no traps in or around it.

Bros.., I honestly don't know any way in which it is illicit, which is why I ask you what laws are cheated by two free adults having sex.

You are saying then that your ignorance of anyone or any natural law they'd be cheating with such a sexxual association is the reason you say that it does not?

That's a very poor reason.

You call it ignorance, then you should provide the knowledge that demonstrates what laws have been cheated\broken when an adult has sex without marriage. In fact, it is to the glory of god that a person can have sex without feeling guilty. We have been set free to embrace(love) our own natures instead of feeling guilty for things that are perfectly natural, that we are entitled to, and that we need to function perfectly.

okeyxyz:

Bros.., I honestly don't know any way in which it is illicit, which is why I ask you what laws are cheated by two free adults having sex.



You call it ignorance, then you should provide the knowledge that demonstrates what laws have been cheated\broken when an adult has sex without marriage. In fact, it is to the glory of god that a person can have sex without feeling guilty. We have been set free to embrace(love) our own natures instead of feeling guilty for things that are perfectly natural, that we are entitled to, and that we need to function perfectly.

What?? are you a christian by religion? a straight yes or no will not hurt.

In Israel, marriages are suppose to be entered by the mates as virgins.

Once a man sleeps with a woman in israel he MUST marry her:

(Deuteronomy 22:28-30).
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humiliated her, he may not put her away all his days. A man shall not take his father’s wife, nor discover his father’s skirt." (Deuteronomy 22:28-30).
.................................................


With that ^ there was no room to sleep with different partners as is done today in the name of marriage as is common today.

Since the girls must marry as a virgin otherwise she risk being pelted with stones if she enters into a marriage without being a virgin.

The christian does well to ensure marriage. How?

By starting out with sex?

What if the engagement should fail?
See:

(Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

"If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a virgin: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel’s father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter as a virgin; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter’s virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
And they shall amerce(penalise) him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the LovePeddler in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

That ^ is God's standard on the matter, but men will always want to suit themself.
Has God changed?

Smh.

okeyxyz:

Bros.., I honestly don't know any way in which it is illicit, which is why I ask you what laws are cheated by two free adults having sex.

Do you realize that you're basing your argument on ignorance? You are saying that you hold that sexx between two unmarried people is ok because you don't know anyone or natural law they'd be cheating doing so.

That is a very poor argument in itself.

You call it ignorance, then you should provide the knowledge that demonstrates what laws have been cheated\broken when an adult has sex without marriage.

I don't call anything ignorance. You were the one who said that you don't know what person or natural law adults in such a liaison would be cheating by indulging in it. What else is the condition of 'not knowing' called?

In fact, it is to the glory of god that a person can have sex without feeling guilty. We have been set free to embrace(love) our own natures instead of feeling guilty for things that are perfectly natural, that we are entitled to, and that we need to function perfectly.

All the above is new to me o. How do you know that such an alliance gives glory to God?

How is sexx between two unmarried people, even if pledged to each other, perfectly natural? Or something that we are entitled to? Or something that we need to function perfectly?

By what authority do you make these claims?

subscribing

okeyxyz: fornication simply means illicit sex. It is not consensual sex between man and woman. As long as they are not cheating anyone or nature(unnatural sex), then it cannot be fornication.

Look up any bible dictionary/concordance. The popular definition of fornication that we all assume has no basis in scripture, it is simply a tradition passed down by the catholic church and adopted by the rest of "christianity"

Are you arguing from a christian viewpoint or are you being sarcastic?

This is for both Ihedinobi and Goshen360:

Gentlemen,

I couldn't help but to find your conversation on "fornication" both confusing and somewhat disturbing at the same time. What I'd like to know from the two of you is, "Is your conversation based primarily on ideology or scriptures." If based solely on ideology, as many do, I can understand the body of the conversation. However, if based on scripture (Bible) as I have written books on (Capital Punishment: A Nation on Death Row!, The Unidentifiable "very first" Beginning!, and currently "Shinning One, son of the dawn!) perhaps I can be of some assistance. To begin with, fornication is sexual intercourse outside of marriage, period. It matters not whether those who engaged in fornication are married or not. If it is "outside the/of marriage" it is fornication. Married individuals who engage in sexual intercourse "outside of 'their own' marriage" are not only guilty of fornication but adultery as well. It also includes perverted sex (such as men lying down with men, and women lying down with women). In both cases, they are viewed with disdain by the Most High. There is an almost countless amount of references in the Bible dealing with this subject. However, most who deal in the ideological areas, rarely find time to read them. I could give them to you, but it's better to go in search of them yourself. This much I will tell you, some of the best examples are found in the Old and New Testaments. Head-start: 1 Corinthians 6:9; 5:9; 1 Timothy 1:10.

Image123: gosh, beware of puffed up knowledge. This is the letter in zoom mode BTW.

Why do you open your mouth to talk when you don't have any meaningful thing to say? I have told you to stop this your troll around me please. Also, why do you always say I'm puffed up with knowledge if I know what I know & I have to explain it? Is there a restriction for you not to know also? Learn to keep shut if you have nothing to contribute, okay.

truthislight: In Israel, marriages are suppose to be entered by the mates as virgins.

Once a man sleeps with a woman in israel he MUST marry her:

(Deuteronomy 22:28-30).
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humiliated her, he may not put her away all his days. A man shall not take his father’s wife, nor discover his father’s skirt." (Deuteronomy 22:28-30).
.................................................


With that ^ there was no room to sleep with different partners as is done today in the name of marriage as is common today.

Since the girls must marry as a virgin otherwise she risk being pelted with stones if she enters into a marriage without being a virgin.

The christian does well to ensure marriage. How?

By starting out with sex?

What if the engagement should fail?
See:

(Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

"If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a virgin: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel’s father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter as a virgin; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter’s virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
And they shall amerce(penalise) him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the LovePeddler in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

That ^ is God's standard on the matter, but men will always want to suit themself.
Has God changed?

Smh.

hmmmn God's standard except of cos TITHES..

@ Ihedinobi,

I should enter this thread by 12:30pm, Nigeria time today. I hope this place would not have been messed up by the time I come or before I wake up. I'm saying this because it's the same way 'some religious' people messed up the first thread we talked about this and it ended up without any reasonable outcome. Make I sleep small abeg.

What's ur point bidam? Must everything be tithe? Must u lie & threaten ppl all in d name of collecting money 4rm them?
Wht is d relevance of ur contribution to d topic at hand?

Bidam: hmmmn God's standard except of cos TITHES..

Abeg go sidon joor. You too like money from tithe. You wan come carry your tithe mentality come pollution this thread ni.

@ Ihedinobi, did you see what I'm talking about? I know definitely before I wake up, this thread would have been polluted by 'some religious' people and here's an example.

Goshen360:

Abeg go sidon joor. You too like money from tithe. You wan come carry your tithe mentality come pollution this thread ni.

@ Ihedinobi, did you see what I'm talking about? I know definitely before I wake up, this thread would have been polluted by 'some religious' people and here's an example.

hmmn..you really are puffed up..you call me religious? Wow that's a new one.

Bobbysworld28: What's ur point bidam? Must everything be tithe? Must u lie & threaten ppl all in d name of collecting money 4rm them?
Wht is d relevance of ur contribution to d topic at hand?

Goshen crew are here..Glory to God..hope you slept well bobby? A lil greeting won't hurt will it?

Bidam: hmmn..you really are puffed up..you call me religious? Wow that's a new one.

Call it puffed up, call it arrogant or whatever, it's your headache. I have heard people call me arrogant & heretic on this forum, it's nothing to me. This thread was created for me to answer for myself & I WILL SURELY ANSWER FOR MYSELF. You entered this thread like your religious brother Image123 and started talking about TITHE because you're too tithe & money conscious.

Instead of you to contribute something meaningful, you came talking trash. Do you know how & what I was gonna respond to what truthislight wrote? Again, stop trolling if there's nothing to say. Thank you.

Goshen360:

Call it puffed up, call it arrogant or whatever, it's your headache. I have heard people call me arrogant & heretic on this forum, it's nothing to me. This thread was created for me to answer for myself & I WILL SURELY ANSWER FOR MYSELF. You entered this thread like your religious brother Image123 and started talking about TITHE because you're too tithe & money conscious.

Instead of you to contribute something meaningful, you came talking trash. Do you know how & what I was gonna respond to what truthislight wrote? Again, stop trolling if there's nothing to say. Thank you.

ok sir..sorry sir..lemme allow you to sleep..no point getting worked up..we are all brothers in Christ aren't we? Try not to forget that fact in a hurry..sleep well bro..

Good morning my brother bidam. I slept well & I trust u did too.
Did u just call me Goshen crew? Lol. I beg u o. I just try to follow wht is right although d Goshen guy dey make serious brain.
Pls do nt derail this topic cos I want Goshen 2 answer.