This Billyoinaire guy is more twisted than I have come to realise ooo. U want us to blindly believe your incredible claim that you have traveled in your physical body to supernatural world out there with your eyes, nose, ears, tounge and hands!!! And from what you saw and heard during your stay, its an advanced world...but you will deny us theists our simple belief in a Personal God who loves and cares about us while He guards and guides us in our daily lives by telling us that God is a title we give to a mere force. Well I sincerely hope that the next time you go to that advanced world take your camera along and when you come back you will post pictures here on nairaland for us to see!!! OR better still since your so called humanoids are advanced beings, it won't be a big deal for you to bring a couple of them along for a shopping at Shoprite they can take gifts from here back to their people!!!

Billyonaire:

Sir, I know you do belief in some supernatural forces but your belief system is not so clear to me. In other not to derail this thread, kindly provide a link detailing your belief system as I'm interested in knowing more about your humanoids.
Thanks.

Toluwarni:
Bill.. Advanced civilization ke? why you no snap am?? God is calling you today Bill.. Accept him and be saved

God, I am a part of.

otipoju: This Billyoinaire guy is more twisted than I have come to realise ooo. U want us to blindly believe your incredible claim that you have traveled in your physical body to supernatural world out there with your eyes, nose, ears, tounge and hands!!! And from what you saw and heard during your stay, its an advanced world...but you will deny us theists our simple belief in a Personal God who loves and cares about us while He guards and guides us in our daily lives by telling us that God is a title we give to a mere force. Well I sincerely hope that the next time you go to that advanced world take your camera along and when you come back you will post pictures here on nairaland for us to see!!! OR better still since your so called humanoids are advanced beings, it won't be a big deal for you to bring a couple of them along for a shopping at Shoprite they can take gifts from here back to their people!!!

God is a degree of Consciousness, and Energy hierarchy, whoever attains that plane of realization may be crowned the title. All is energy, we are a part of the whole, and we may get to that point at some stage. There is no particular being called God, all is energy in the multiverse, so Atheists and theists are both right. God is everywhere and no where in particular.

Harry Potter.

Billyonaire: God, I am a part of.

Don't understand... Do you mind explaining better??

Billyonaire: God is a degree of Consciousness, and Energy hierarchy, whoever attains that plane of realization may be crowned the title. All is energy, we are a part of the whole, and we may get to that point at some stage. There is no particular being called God, all is energy in the multiverse, so Atheists and theists are both right. God is everywhere and no where in particular.

Mr Billyonaire, first and foremost you are not an atheist because you believe in the existence of God. What it is for you is that it is the impersonal energy that animates the Universe and beyond. For me HE is the Supreme Being who created and sustains the world. Nevertheless,there is something fundamentally flawed with your postulations that God is an impersonal degree of consciousness and its attainment is the purpose of the existence of human beings with personhood.An integral part of Personhood is Self awareness. It does not stand to reason that A person that can observe meditate contemplate and express his feelings will progressively evolve into an impersonal force incapable of any of such...- your conception of the purpose of existence "From a self aware person to an impersonal God is not does not hold water because once you become aware that you have attained Godhood, that awareness negates your whole arguement that God is an impersonal force. Ruminate on this and don't just accept blindly the teachings that you get from the brotherhood of the cross and star. I questioned my Christian beliefs vigorously and still do. it has helped me understand my faith better. Halleluya oo

otipoju: Mr Billyonaire, first and foremost you are not an atheist because you believe in the existence of God. What it is for you is that it is the impersonal energy that animates the Universe and beyond. For me HE is the Supreme Being who created and sustains the world. Nevertheless,there is something fundamentally flawed with your postulations that God is an impersonal degree of consciousness and its attainment is the purpose of the existence of human beings with personhood.An integral part of Personhood is Self awareness. It does not stand to reason that A person that can observe meditate contemplate and express his feelings will progressively evolve into an impersonal force incapable of any of such...- your conception of the purpose of existence "From a self aware person to an impersonal God is not does not hold water because once you become aware that you have attained Godhood, that awareness negates your whole arguement that God is an impersonal force. Ruminate on this and don't just accept blindly the teachings that you get from the brotherhood of the cross and star. I questioned my Christian beliefs vigorously and still do. it has helped me understand my faith better. Halleluya oo

I guess you need to go back to your Bible and read about the Plurality of God. Genesis Chapter one: "And God said, Let 'us' make man in 'our' own image." That doesnt sound like one being engineering man into existence. Its a hierarchy and purely a spiritual bureaucracy. Lorenzo Snow re-echoed 'As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may be'. Everything in Life is Energy, nothing was created out of anything else apart from energy, and the totality of all energy is the supreme force that governs the multiverse, and we are a part of it, chose to call it God, and you are theist, choose to call it just Energy and you are termed Atheist. Both atheists and theists are right.

As a case in point let me tell you from my own personal experience why I am convinced there is a Personal God... Some years ago I was working at a job that I dint like cause it did not pay enough and compared to where my mates where I was really lagging behind. I started mulling in my mind thoughts of joining the Ogboni Fraternity as a means to be connected to the wealthy in society.I justified my plan by saying I had waited on God in vain all these while and now I want to take my destiny in my hands and shape it as I will. That Sunday morning I went to church with the beleiving it will be the last time ill step into one. I had barely sat down when this 10 year old prophet called my out to give me a message from Jehovah. " The first statement he made was that " I am the living God who created you, I have not forsaken you nor forgotten my promises to you and I will fulfill them, Please don't join any Cult that will lead you into darkened paths!!! He went on to say that the place that I had been rejected for employment,I would be called and honored It was such a comforting message and the reality of the words " man looks at the face but Gods sees the heart" hit me with full force. Four months later I got an offer from where I had interviewed two years earlier and currently handle a group of about thirty. ... An Impersonal force is incapable of such a relationship.As a Celestian I do not worship Jehovah cause I am afraid of HIM, I do so because I adore him and his awesome power to bring his word to pass. I have many more instances but let's just leave it at that. Just as you have been unable to empirically prove the exitence of your humanoids and the 4th dimension that you intend to attain on a cosmic plane, understand our inability to provide empirical evidence for the existence of a personal God.. We will not trouble you but please stop harrassing us.

otipoju: As a case in point let me tell you from my own personal experience why I am convinced there is a Personal God... Some years ago I was working at a job that I dint like cause it did not pay enough and compared to where my mates where I was really lagging behind. I started mulling in my mind thoughts of joining the Ogboni Fraternity as a means to be connected to the wealthy in society.I justified my plan by saying I had waited on God in vain all these while and now I want to take my destiny in my hands and shape it as I will. That Sunday morning I went to church with the beleiving it will be the last time ill step into one. I had barely sat down when this 10 year old prophet called my out to give me a message from Jehovah. " The first statement he made was that " I am the living God who created you, I have not forsaken you nor forgotten my promises to you and I will fulfill them, Please don't join any Cult that will lead you into darkened paths!!! He went on to say that the place that I had been rejected for employment,I would be called and honored It was such a comforting message and the reality of the words " man looks at the face but Gods sees the heart" hit me with full force. Four months later I got an offer from where I had interviewed two years earlier and currently handle a group of about thirty. ... An Impersonal force is incapable of such a relationship.As a Celestian I do not worship Jehovah cause I am afraid of HIM, I do so because I adore him and his awesome power to bring his word to pass. I have many more instances but let's just leave it at that. Just as you have been unable to empirically prove the exitence of your humanoids and the 4th dimension that you intend to attain on a cosmic plane, understand our inability to provide empirical evidence for the existence of a personal God.. We will not trouble you but please stop harrassing us.

There is no evidence to prove that your encounter was with Jehovah or God or not. I did not say that there are no high energy beings, I am a proponent of existences beyond humans on the third dimension. You had an encounter with a high energy being with insights into your predicament, it is normal. That does not prove that it is Jehovah. My opinion is that God is energy, and its a Title that those who attain the God consciousness can be addressed with, Allah is God, that's how muslims call it, Jehovah is God for Christians, and thats how they call it, but are these beings the same ? The answer is NO. Its simply a degree of existence. Even your Bible talks about God, the Father, God-the Son, God-the Holy Spirit. Its simply an hierarchy, when you attain it, you are referred to as, God. If you are not yet there, you are referred to as, god. But in the end, Gods and gods are made of same stuff, energy, which is source of all. From which all was made from, without which nothing was made.

Lorenzo Snow re-echoed 'As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may be'. When I started studying religion, the first thing my lecturers impacted in me is not to accept anything on its face value but to think critically. You have committed a fallacy of reasoning here because you have appealed to authority. ..because Lorenzo Snow said so it must be so. Now to analyze lorenzo's statement... His reasoning is Circular and I shall proceed to prove it... He says" As man is so God once was" meaning that at a point in time there was a particular man man who was flesh and blood and needed to eat sleep and shit as we do now who later evolved into becoming God" an impersonal force" who now became responsible for bringing into being the universe as we know it today. But the question is that first man or men who are God now did they come to be men in a vacumm ? If space and time had not come to be then how was this first man able to breathe eat and sleep.. That would mean man in his present state was able to live in this exact form without air and water in another plane better more advanced than this then where is the need for evolution? Besides when you place it side by side with your advice that I should go read Genesis. Where God said let us create man in our own image implying that God was a part of the hierachy of that created man and you turn round to say God was once man, you are saying in essence that man created himself... Circular reasoning by lorenzo snow taken hook line and sinker by an unsuspecting Billyionaire. Even Max Hiendel the Occultist himself says of the subject of the conception of the cosmos " it should be firmly impressed upon the mind of the student, however, that there is no infallible revelation of this complicated subject, which includes everything under the sun and above it also" ...Wether you or me or Handel or Lorenzo or Olumba or Goodluck your brother in the cross and crescent, we all are seeing through a murky glass cause our knowledge is limited. Don't try to give me the impression that your beliefs about the cosmos are absolute and others inferior,This will stunt your spiritual evolution. Your mind is closed already and cannot receive new knowledge like a little child like Jesus a Christ advised.

Somewhere in one of your posts you have ventured to call apostle paul Christ. With no empirical proof. Mqybe you do not realise that you are making a whole lot of claims without any evidence to back any of them, the very crime you accuse Christians of and go ahead to ridicule and taunt them... I respect your views and will not ask you to change them neither will I deride you for believing in them. But let us recognise them for what they are--- another set of new age beliefs about the origin and end of life... You have no empirical proof,to back them neither do I other than our personal experiences. I recognise that my knowledge is limited to my experience and but you believe your knowledge based on your experience wether sensory or ultrasensory is ABSOLUTE. That is where you are missing it. My journey into comparitive religion opened my eyes to a myriad of belief systems and I realise that the same faith that I have in mine is the same that the shintoist hinduist or moslem has in his... Let me live properly in this world by being kind to others irrespective of tribe race or religion,be moderate in my behaviour and attain self mastery so as not to become addicted to anything, develop my mind and my career,and increase my income so that I can be of more benefit to others and forge a closer communion with my God... The hereafter will take care of itself ... Dats all

I was not wrong in my quotes, but its your choice to belief what you will. The Concept of God holds many theories and yet Christianity 'believes' theirs reign supreme. That would not be fare.

"Let 'us' make man in 'our' own image" denotes a Plural God. "And God made man, in his own image" sounds like Singular. "God, the Father, God -the Son, God -the Holy Spirit" sounds plural. These are from your Bible. And there is no single sentence there in this Bible that expressed God, as a being.

"In the beginning was the 'WORD' (AUDIO)(sound energy)(energy), and the word was God, and without it was nothing made that was made." This is science - Energy is the source of all material and 'immaterial' creation. 'In the beginning was it, and nothing can be made from nothing, everything comes from something" sounds like energy conversion.

I think we should debunk all dogmatic interpretations of the Bible by the neaderthals and read them 'as is' and professor meanings 'as is'. There lies the truth.

We have words like god, God and i want to add GOD.
While gods is used to denote humans in the bible (In Psalms 86 and in Mathew Gospel), stating "Ye are gods' and children of Most High God" one can only deduce, that children will someday reach the age and be like the father (God).

If god means humans, with guarantee (not possibility) to become God, then GOD is the infinite oneness of all gods, God and the multiverses. Here lies your confusion. GOD is the totality of all that there is, the infinite oneness of the universe, ENERGY. The energy is the very essence of God, gods and the entire multiverse.

Atheism as root is logical reasoning about absenteism of God, but ever presence of GOD (INFINITE ENERGY 'source of infinity)
Theism as root in dogmatic reasoning about presence of God with total ignorance of GOD INFINITE ENERGY 'source of infinity)

God is head of God hierarchy, God Realization. When you attain that hierarchy you could be termed God, and you represent those faction that 'worship' you. Allah, Jehovah etc. (Jesus threw light on this when he stated "In my father's house, there are many mansions, I will prepare a place for you, so that where I am, you also will be there" In essence, it means, it the heavenly hierarchy, there are different sections; Christians will with him, Jews will be with their God, Muslims will be with their God.

But the Supreme Force that Governments these multiverses is ENERGY, the very essence of all that there is, the very essence of Gods, gods, material and immaterial universes.

QED

Quoting you Billyonaire. "We have words like god, God and i want to add GOD.
While gods is used to denote humans in the bible (In Psalms 86 and in Mathew Gospel), stating "Ye are gods' and children of Most High God" one can only deduce, that children will someday reach the age and be like the father (God)." This is my understanding of your
concept of the cosmos- there are gods - humans,different Gods-- Allah,for moslems Jehovah for Jews and Christians, Olodumare in Yoruba traditional religion with his pantheon of deified ancestors like sango ogun and co. For you it does not end at that rather, but you take it one step further to say that on a higher superior plane there is GOD the ABSOLUTE impersonal force that brought all into being... This is a basic Rosicrucian concept. Well and good. BUT REMEMBER THAT THIS IS MERE BELIEF WITHOUT EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE VERIFIABLE BY THE SENSES AND IS IN THE REALM OF CONJECTURE. Having said that I then wonder... First if the gods grow to become like their father God, in a similar vein, the Gods too will grow to become like their origin, the ABSOLUTE GOD thereby we have a multiplicity of ABSOLUTES which nullifies the very idea of ABSOLUTENESS. And of course since growth is the order in your cosmos, what will the ABSOLUTE grow to become? Except of course this growing to become "like their father in heaven" connotes a different meaning contrary to what you propose. Secondly, since like begets like,it does not stand to reason that an impersonal force without self awareness will bring into being a heirachy of personal Gods and gods. Because for it to bring them into being presupposes a sense of Awareness and design by a designer that is inimical to an impersonal force. Christianity accepts that its claims are foolishness to the wise (reason) and requires a "leap of faith" to accept. How else will you believe that a man was born of a virgin died and resurrected and ascended into heaven... Do you blame Judaists rejecting the gospel of the apostles ? I am not confused Billyoniare,it is just that my reasoning will not allow the leap of faith that enabled me to believe in Jehovah to go beyond that point to where yours enables you to believe in the impersonal force you call the ABSOLUTE GOD. I am content with my Christian beleifs, they work for me. My submission is simply that all religions and belief systems of this world are mere claims that cannot be proven empirically. You believe what you chose to if it works for you well and good but do not go about deriding other peoples beliefs because yours is just as silly as theirs. Funny enough without really intending to I have gotten you to acknowledge that the Chrsitian personal God known as Jehovah does exist though he may not be that important to you in the scheme of things in your cosmos. I guess your grandfather was right afterall.

otipoju: Quoting you Billyonaire. "We have words like god, God and i want to add GOD.
While gods is used to denote humans in the bible (In Psalms 86 and in Mathew Gospel), stating "Ye are gods' and children of Most High God" one can only deduce, that children will someday reach the age and be like the father (God)." This is my understanding of your
concept of the cosmos- there are gods - humans,different Gods-- Allah,for moslems Jehovah for Jews and Christians, Olodumare in Yoruba traditional religion with his pantheon of deified ancestors like sango ogun and co. For you it does not end at that rather, but you take it one step further to say that on a higher superior plane there is GOD the ABSOLUTE impersonal force that brought all into being... This is a basic Rosicrucian concept. Well and good. BUT REMEMBER THAT THIS IS MERE BELIEF WITHOUT EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE VERIFIABLE BY THE SENSES AND IS IN THE REALM OF CONJECTURE. Having said that I then wonder... First if the gods grow to become like their father God, in a similar vein, the Gods too will grow to become like their origin, the ABSOLUTE GOD thereby we have a multiplicity of ABSOLUTES which nullifies the very idea of ABSOLUTENESS. And of course since growth is the order in your cosmos, what will the ABSOLUTE grow to become? Except of course this growing to become "like their father in heaven" connotes a different meaning contrary to what you propose. Secondly, since like begets like,it does not stand to reason that an impersonal force without self awareness will bring into being a heirachy of personal Gods and gods. Because for it to bring them into being presupposes a sense of Awareness and design by a designer that is inimical to an impersonal force. Christianity accepts that its claims are foolishness to the wise (reason) and requires a "leap of faith" to accept. How else will you believe that a man was born of a virgin died and resurrected and ascended into heaven... Do you blame Judaists rejecting the gospel of the apostles ? I am not confused Billyoniare,it is just that my reasoning will not allow the leap of faith that enabled me to believe in Jehovah to go beyond that point to where yours enables you to believe in the impersonal force you call the ABSOLUTE GOD. I am content with my Christian beleifs, they work for me. My submission is simply that all religions and belief systems of this world are mere claims that cannot be proven empirically. You believe what you chose to if it works for you well and good but do not go about deriding other peoples beliefs because yours is just as silly as theirs. Funny enough without really intending to I have gotten you to acknowledge that the Chrsitian personal God known as Jehovah does exist though he may not be that important to you in the scheme of things in your cosmos. I guess your grandfather was right afterall.

You wrote a lot there, but I need to correct an impression about my person. I never said that Jehovah did not exist, and I only had to clarify on the sea of confusion which make people become atheist because of lack of understanding of Godhood and existence of deities. To simply accept religious concepts is good, but what efforts do we make to reason with other schools of thoughts and bring an awareness to others is important, cos to believe in a system and negate to investigate the logic behind other people's reasoning is selfishness. When you emphasize that God created the world, it sounds good, but you never asked yourself, what created God ? You are prepared to tell me that God created himself or was not created....may be he just popped out from nothing, which is impossible. That's where I come in, to explain the essence and existence, the Energy paradox can not be ruled out.

Billyonaire:

You wrote a lot there, but I need to correct an impression about my person. I never said that Jehovah did not exist, and I only had to clarify on the sea of confusion which make people become atheist because of lack of understanding of Godhood and existence of deities. To simply accept religious concepts is good, but what efforts do we make to reason with other schools of thoughts and bring an awareness to others is important, cos to believe in a system and negate to investigate the logic behind other people's reasoning is selfishness. When you emphasize that God created the world, it sounds good, but you never asked yourself, what created God ? You are prepared to tell me that God created himself or was not created....may be he just popped out from nothing, which is impossible. That's where I come in, to explain the essence and existence, the Energy paradox can not be ruled out.

. I admit that in an increasingly pluralistic world a lot of Christians care to know nothing of other peoples faith and some especially Nigerians do not even understand the basis of their faith... That is why you keep hearing the very annoying statement that my "pastor says my pastor says" too lazy to test the spirits themselves or study to show themselves approved and rightly able to dissect the word. Thereby unable to engage anyone who questions their faith in a healthy debate. And that's why I would advocate the introduction of comparative religion in the curriculum of Nigerian secondary schools. The benefit is that the knowledge you have of other peoples religion will lead to empathetic relations with them. Having said that, since you have brought up the problem with the First Cause argument." who created God?" You have proposed a solution to the problem by bringing in GOD the boundless ENERGY as the origin of all existence. But it still does not resolve the problem to a rational mind!!! Why because this GOD who brought about the multiverses, how did IT come to be? Is he not possible that IT was was also created and is a mere subordinate to a Bigger IT that I shall for the sake of argument coin a name for as "GARD" who is equally a subordinate to another superior being called "GURD". You might hastily say no " that my theory is far fetched" and there is no proof. Then I will say to you that it is for this very reason that I limit myself to Jehovah as my ABSOLUTE. His origins if any, I may never be able to tell because I simply do not know and admit my knowledge is limited to what is revealed. Common Sun that I can see from here I cannot dissect not to talk of a being that I cannot see.
On a personal note asking existential questions particularly who created God made me look for answers from other belief systems,though I did not find reasonable answers,my faith became strengthened. Notwithstanding I stand to be corrected...in the realm of reason none of the beliefs about the origins of God can lay claim to infallibility...they are what they are beliefs and and opinions. New age and ancient beliefs that is what they are!!!

Your question does not exist. But I appreciate the fact that you are thinking outside the box now, Question like 'who' created God does not exist. But if the question is what stuff is God made of, then one can expound on it. Its like saying who created ice ? Anyone can put water in a refrigerator to make ice block, irrespective of who, the law in nature is, Water at less than a certain degrees becomes ice. We are a part of God, we are gods and kids of the most High. Our source is the infinite energy.

Billyonaire:

Your story is an everyday possibility in the worlds of magic and occult art. Its Transmogrification. It is not wizardry that we hear of.
Remember the popular stories of a old witch flying with a broom stick ?
The story of wizard turning to an owl and hooting in the night ?
The story of a wizard sucking blood from sleeping innocents ?
I want such testimonies. A snake turning to a lady and Vice Versa is an art of common magic which has more to do with transmogrification

Is it the owl hooting in the night that you want to hear of, what about the ones flying in the day? Watch the spiritual warfare that brought this one down since you want it captured on video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRkgTlsRLGY

Your question does not exist. But I appreciate the fact that you are thinking outside the box now, Question like 'who' created God does not exist. But if the question is what stuff is God made of, then one can expound on it. Its like saying who created ice ? Anyone can put water in a refrigerator to make ice block, irrespective of who, the law in nature is, Water at less than a certain degrees becomes ice. We are a part of God, we are gods and kids of the most High. Our source is the infinite energy..

My question is a valid question... what entity is responsible for the existence of the ABSOLUTE. When i know the entity responsible for its existence, then i can proceed to ask what stuff it is made of. The ABSOLUTE is not immune to such questions.... i am thinking outside the box, i do that for a living have you not noticed that i am not put off with your arguements, ive been there before and ive asked myself so many existential questions and sought for answers without my search eroding my faith i remain unfazed. like Paul the man from Tarsus, all it took was one vivid encounter with the divine to clear all doubts....an epiphany beyond description.

I am a rational being that desires a personal relationship with the supernatural, the impersonal ABSOLUTE holds no appeal for me.

Billyonaire: I know about supernatural realm cos I have been there, psychically anyway, and I think most of what you term wizardry is simply folklore and folktale compared to the advanced civilization out there.

i don't want to say u're a liar buh i think thats what you are,not until you tell how you travelled and how the place is. Astrobill

edogho: i don't want to say u're a liar buh i think thats what you are,not until you tell how you travelled and how the place is. Astrobill

Very predictable people, the ignorants.

Billyonaire: Very predictable people, the ignorants.

let's do something here( if you'll agree o)let's say you're right that i'm ignorant(of what you're talking about)and given the kind of person i am(which of course is mi business)i'm interested in the information you have. If you want to do it here,no p. Or send me an e-mail(your choice sha) to MR.SATURNITE@GMAIL.COM.(shock me)

@billy, i suspect you'll not tell me anytin. Prove me wrong mr.

Wait o. I smell some error here o(might be false alarm sha). Isn't it right to call male and female magicians wizards and witches?(will accept correction if there's any). If i'm correct,why would anybody e.g Bill,argue the existence of witches and wizards when they agree people can perform magic? Just asking.(buh its like Billy don run,dodge,escape 4rm his own thread).