There is so much information available out there - even with the difficulty of wading through the internet.
You learned it in primary school and see no reason to update your knowledge since that time.
Ile-Ife dates existed way before the 9th century.

aletheia: Concerning the OP's assertion that the name Yoruba originally referred to a more northern dwelling people who were later forced southward into the region now known as Southwest Nigeria; there may very well be some truth to that. Has anyone ever wondered why the Hausa historians have always included Yoruba in the Banza Bokwai. We learnt this as far back as primary school in Lagos, and I 've always been intrigued by that listing.



Also bear in mind the witness that Old Oyo lay to the North of present day Yorubaland and the Hausa Kingdoms historically preceded anything that is recognizably Yoruba having existed as far back as 9th century (Kano is more than 1000 years old).

The problem with we Africans is that we are a people who have lost a significant portion of our historical heritage. We have forgotten who we were and the little history that remains to us has been distorted through the lenses of colonialism. Much of what we call "tribes" today are artificial constructs imposed on us by colonialists. Our ancestors intermarried, traded, fought themselves and even swapped kings on occasion but it is not likely that they saw themselves in such ethnically jaundiced terms as so many on NL do these days. Case in point is Rwanda: most people are under the impression that Tutsis and Hutus are two different peoples. In truth, they are the same people. The artificial dichotomy was deliberately foisted upon them by colonialists who elevated the pastoral Tutsis above the Hutu agriculturalists. One people.

We shouldn't be too quick to dismiss all that the OP writes. Here and there lie intimations and shadows of the history that has been stolen from us.

alj harem:
I think I disagree with you in that aspect. I also don't think it is good to make misinforming comments. In as much as it is your opinion, we need to take into consideration how you minds are taking some of this post we write for example the OP is a clear example of misinformation by another party.
Yoruba language is spoken in many countries and indeed Yoruba language is indigenous to many countries as well.
Yoruba language is a tree on his own aka Yoruboid and Nago. To the extent that the Ga tribe of Ghana ( a very small ethnic group) speak a yoruba dialect and that is why YORUBAS and Hausas were two of the first african migrants to trade in Ghana due to the little or no language barrier for some.
Togo is another country where yoruba is spoken there. Places like Plateau Region, Ogou and Est-Mono prefectures; Centrale Region and Tchamba Prefecture. This is a third of the country so lets get our facts right.
Disporians you mention are not disporians. Now what is the meaning of dispora and meaning of indigenous ?
When a significant amount of people practise, speak and mediate on a culture in the country they call home all their lifes ?, you still call them disporians ? when history is there for us to see

LOL In this age and time, we still need to educate people about Yoruba diversity.
There's even a debate on how Yoruba Benins may actually be the "old Yorubas"(antiquity) before they immigrated to other West African countries.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPY2IO-uQ2o

She's Benin. Their Yoruba sounds different from the typical (oyo) Yoruba. When she talks she sounds somehow lol
Her phonetics sounds somehow jor

Texas.Cowgirl:
Seriously, I had a Cuban trying to speak some Yoruba words he learned from Santeria worshipers to me after I introduced myself as Yoruba lol.

WTF

Had to tell the dude to back off. I was a christian back then

I have heard of Santeria worshippers and the like, but I am not sure if even these adherents are fluent and conversant in Yoruba, or if there is a sizable group in Cuba that speak Yoruba as a second language.

I'll give another example - there is also sizable cultural influence from the Efik in Latin America (Abakua), but I am also not sure that even these segments speak Efik fluently as a second language.

A lot of people are mistaking the two, for some reason.

It is common Knowledge that there are Yorubas in Benin Republic. No one is disputing that.

nnenna.1:

What ethnic group does your Togolese friend come from?

I don't know.

Didn't bother asking. . . .she spoke Yoruba, I was happy, end of story.

I think this information will be on Google tho.

Absolute bunkum.
So many of these glibly written but absolute rubbish history, linking Igbo to everything on planet earth, online. You people will pull one thread out of a cloth, tie another completely unrelated thread to the end of it and another and another and another, all from different cloth - and then claim that your thread was the source of the original cloth.

It is sad to reduce your history to low levels!!!

Thankgodifeduba: [s]The Egboes are considered the
most imitative and emulative
people in the whole of Western
Africa; place them where you will
or introduce them to any
manners of customs and you will
find they easily adapt to them.”
“The population of Egbo is
unknown.”
(Horton 1969:157)
THE EBO ARE IGBO
In accordance with his origins in
the Essaka village of Benin,
Olaudah Equiano referred to his
people as being that of Ebo and
never Igbo.
“The West Indies planters prefer
the slaves of Benin or Eboe.”
“Deformity is indeed unknown
amongst us. I mean that of
shape. Numbers of natives of
Eboe in London might be
brought in support of this
assertion for in regard to
complexion ideas of beauty are
wholly relative.” (Gates Jr.
1987:17)
The Ebo connection to Benin is
further supported by Onyebuechi
Amene who states the following;
“Ebo is a Benin name. It was the
Binis that went to and from the
Igala Royal families that took the
name to Igala.”
“The Ebo family of Isiskre still
retains their ancestral Bini
names.”[/s]
(

Texas.Cowgirl:


I don't know.

Didn't bother asking. . . .she spoke Yoruba, I was happy, end of story.

I think this information will be on Google tho.

Ok...so that doesn't prove anything, does it?

nnenna.1:

I have heard of Santeria worshippers and the like, but I am not sure if even these adherents are fluent and conversant in Yoruba, or if there is a sizable group in Cuba that speak Yoruba as a second language.
I'll give another example - there is also sizable cultural influence from the Efik in Latin America (Abakua), but I am also not sure that even these segments speak Efik fluently as a second language.
A lot of people are mistaking the two, for some reason.

Som of the shants they use to worship Osun is in Yoruba, that much I know.

I know that Brazil has the largest population of Yorubas in Diaspora. (Modern Yorubas, not slaves). That may explain why Yorubas/ some Yoruba-Descent can still grasp the language.

Yorubas hold on their heritage, no matter where they go. It's something they don't let go.

If Yoruba is spoken in Benin, why should you find it impossible for Yoruba groups in Togo to do the same?

nnenna.1:

Ok...so that doesn't prove anything, does it?

The only tangible proof would b for her to come on NL and prove what I've said to make you believe.

Be more aware of your Africa.

Even some Cameroon groups speak Ibo.

The anthropologists/Ethnographers that did their research lied?

Weren't they the ones that found where Yoruba language is spoke and where it still lingers?

lol

Texas.Cowgirl:


Som of the shants they use to worship Osun is in Yoruba, that much I know.

I know that Brazil has the largest population of Yorubas in Diaspora. (Modern Yorubas, not slaves). That may explain why Yorubas/ some Yoruba-Descent can still grasp the language.

Yorubas hold on their heritage, no matter where they go. It's something they don't let go.

If Yoruba is spoken in Benin, why should you find it impossible for Yoruba groups in Togo to do the same?

Ok, let me reword this. Can anyone provide some links discussing indigenous groups of Yoruba ancestry in Togo and Ghana, such as what we know of in Benin Republic? I can't find such information online, neither was I even aware of this in the first place.

If you are talking of relatively modern migrants or immigrant communities the world over that retain some of their traditions...then you are not describing anything unique to any single African group, or any group on earth for that matter. The world is a global village.

You will find immigrant groups in the US, the UK, Europe, as well as Brazil, even in Nigeria.

Again, ritual and dance practices do not equate to original Latin American groups speaking Yoruba fluently as a second language. Unless you have facts to back this.

wawu

Texas.Cowgirl:


The only tangible proof would b for her to come on NL and prove what I've said to make you believe.

Be more aware of your Africa.

Even some Cameroon groups speak Ibo.

Her having a Yoruba name and speaking Yoruba could mean anything.

She probably was close with Yoruba migrants in Togo (I have heard of Yoruba immigrants living there) and learned the language as a hobby, adopted a Yoruba name.

Unless her people are originally Yoruba/Yoruba speaking?

There is an Ife in Togo....

Vigesimal Numerals on Ifẹ̀ (Togo) and Ifẹ̀ (Nigeria)
Dialects of Yorùbá

http://www.linguistik-online.de/43_10/fabunmi.pdf

The Igbo groups in Cameroon are recent migrants.

Migrating and forming large communities elsewhere is not exactly groundbreaking

Ifẹ̀ (Togo) Dialect of Yorùbá
Most of the Yorùbá dialects in the Republic of Benin and Togo are known as "Èdè-
languages". Ifẹ̀ (Togo) is a Yoruboid language included in the Benue-Congo group of NigerCongo. Ifẹ̀ (Togo) is a variety of Yorùbá spoken in a territory astride both Benin and Togo.
Today, the capital of Ifẹ̀(Togo) is Atakpamẹ. The Ifẹ̀ (Togo) dialect of Yorùbá is spoken by
approximately 90'000 people in Atakpamẹ, the speakers stretch from the Benin boundary up
to Atakpamẹ in Togo. Majority of these Ifẹ̀ settlers migrated from Ìjà-Òkú in former
Dahomey into the Togolese territory and subsequently found the city of Atapkamẹ. According
to Igue/Yai (1973: 20-21), Ifẹ̀ (Togo) speakers are "distributed among villages of Ṣẹ̀tí-Èpò,
Ija-Òkú, Ìdùmẹ̀, Ọ̀kánlàwọ́n and Ọ̀tọlá, all of them situated along the western boundary of
Dahomey". There are several other early settlers or ethnic groups in Atakpamẹ such as Fọn,
Ewe, Aposo, Kabrelosso, Ketokoli, etc., but the people of Ṣẹ̀tí, Jámà and Ìgbèríko are
predominantly Ifẹ̀. Other Ifẹ̀ (Togo) villages where speakers of Ifẹ̀ (Togo) dialect are residing
are Alábàtà, Okútayà, Ẹfujáyé, Alékà, Oko Aṣàde, Aṣoko Ayépadà and Yanmọsílẹ̀.
According to Igue/Yai (1973), among the traditional Ifẹ̀ (Togo and

http://www.linguistik-online.de/43_10/fabunmi.pdf

nnenna.1:


Ok, let me reword this. Can anyone provide some links discussing indigenous groups of Yoruba ancestry in Togo and Ghana, such as what we know of in Benin Republic? I can't find such information online, neither was I even aware of this in the first place.

If you are talking of relatively modern migrants or immigrant communities the world over that retain some of their traditions...then you are not describing anything unique to any single African group, or any group on earth for that matter. The world is a global village.

You will find immigrant groups in the US, the UK, Europe, as well as Brazil, even in Nigeria.

Again, ritual and dance practices do not equate to original Latin American groups speaking Yoruba fluently as a second language. Unless you have facts to back this.

First of al, I'm not talking about new immigrants in the new world. I'm suing the modern Yoruba diaspora in Brazil as a possible explanation for thriving Yoruba language/tradition there.

Yoruba has different variant. So what do you mean by fluent speakers. The closest Nigerian Yoruba is Togo and Benin.

What they speak in Brazil and Cuba is a mixture of Yoruba and their "native' language.

How many videos of Benin Yoruba speakers can you find online apart from the lady singing gospel worship?

The map highlighted shows the boundaries of tributaries to the Oyo empire.

Not all groups in that map are originally Yoruba speaking

offtopic. . . .has nothing to do with discussion, but Chinese (?) man speaking Yoruba


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7pe_lJWuxc

From Cuba


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SDMpCcWxXM

And the linked paper is also claiming (indigenous?) Yoruba speakers in Ivory Coast, Sudan and Sierra Leone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK1-zQqhyfA

nnenna.1:
And the linked paper is also claiming (indigenous?) Yoruba speakers in Ivory Coast, Sudan and Sierra Leone.

Girl, which linked paper are you talking abut

Iz you sleep typing?

I've never heard of any Yorubas in these regions. Lets see the "paper" to verify this claim.

Texas.Cowgirl:


Girl, which linked paper are you talking abut

Iz you sleep typing?

I've never heard of any Yorubas in these regions. Lets see the "paper" to verify this claim.

This one, which was linked in this thread a few posts before:

http://www.linguistik-online.de/43_10/fabunmi.pdf

nnenna.1:

This one, which was linked in this thread a few posts before:
http://www.linguistik-online.de/43_10/fabunmi.pdf

Does that look like a legit website/PDF to you?

I believe I've just wasted my time and resources.

Good day, madam.

You're comparing well researched ethnographic/anthropological evidence to what someone wrote on sites such as Myspace.com?

Good day, madam. Good day.

Texas.Cowgirl:


oes that look like a legit website/PDF to you?

I believe I've wasted my time and resources.

Good day, madam.

You're comparing well researched ethnographic/anthropological evidence to what someone wrote on sites such as Myspace.com?

Good day, madam. Good day.

Uh...I didn't originally provide that link in this thread.

We therefore see the diverse varieties of the
Yorùbá language, used by groups smaller than the total community of speakers of the
language within the geographical area, as dialects of the same language. But aside from
Nigeria, the language is also spoken in countries like Republic of Bénin, Togo, Ghana, Cote
D'ivoire, Sudan and Sierra-Leone

^^^Bwahahahaha - the tribalist took an excerpt(in a 44 pages document about indigenous Yoruba people in Togo and Benin) that alluded to countries where the language is spoken by settlers and indigenous, and based her rebuttal on that...

Get a life!!!

I picked one questionable factoid as soon as I hit the first page of that paper.

How can one even sure that the entire paper is factual, at that?

Even the OP's questionable basis on Yorubas being Igbo hinges on another kind of "research" paper.



Believe what ever y'all want to believe.

*unfollows thread*

^^^You used to be a decent poster till you swallowed the tribalism bug on nl... Every sane person with a knowledge of West African history knows that there are indigenous Yoruba people in Togo... Heck, most Ghanaians also know that Ga people migrated from Ife and their ancestry is from there... The Ewes also claim Yoruba ancestry sometimes as well..

Anyway, this isn't even about those claiming Yoruba ancestry!! There are Yoruba people who're indigenous to Togo!! Stop being a hater!!

shymexx: [s][/s]

Did Yoruba start in Oyo??

Well, Ife started around the 5th century and this makes it far older than Kano..

Go to bed, mate!

^
You are an idiøt. "Yorubas descended from Oduduwa who climbed down from heaven on a rope carrying some soil". Really, is that what you believe? What I wrote is clear enough but you are a prime example of those who see themselves in ethnically jaundiced terms. As far back as 9th century does not foreclose an existence predating the 9th century. The people who today are called Yoruba? Were they called Yoruba in the 5th or 9th century? You call yourself educated and cannot distinguish between the people and the name. History would suggest that the name Yoruba originated northwards of the people who currently bear it. Yoruba words have meanings but tell me, what is the meaning of the word "Yoruba". Please go and educate yourself on the meaning of historiography.

koruji:
There is so much information available out there - even with the difficulty of wading through the internet.
You learned it in primary school and see no reason to update your knowledge since that time.
Ile-Ife dates existed way before the 9th century.

^
Really your knickers are in a twist because I said the Hausa kingdoms predate any that is recognizably Yoruba. And so you and shymexx resort to gratuitous insults. SMH at NL ethnic champions who cannot permit objectivity to get in the way cherished ethnic myths. That archaeologically Ife has been settled as early as the 4th century is not the same thing has being recognizably Yoruba in the sense that we have them today.

Wikipedia: The African peoples who lived in Yorubaland, at least by the seventh century B.C.E, were not initially known as the Yoruba, although they shared a common ethnicity and language group.

Wikipedia: As an ethnic description, the word 'Yoruba' was first recorded in reference to the Oyo Empire in a treatise written by the 16th-century Songhai scholar Ahmed Baba. It was popularized by Hausa usage and ethnography written in Arabic and Ajami during the 19th century, in origin referring to the Oyo exclusively.
The extension of the term to all speakers of dialects related to the language of the Oyo (in modern terminology North-West Yoruba) dates to the second half of the 19th century. It is due to the influence of Samuel Ajayi Crowther, the first Anglican bishop in Nigeria. Crowther was himself a Yoruba and compiled the first Yoruba dictionary as well as introducing a standard for Yoruba orthography.
The alternative name Akú, apparently an exonym derived from the first words of Yoruba greetings (such as Ẹ kú àárọ? "good morning", Ẹ kú alẹ? "good evening" has survived in certain parts of their diaspora as a self-descriptive.

The name Yoruba as a description for the ethnic people of Southwest Nigeria did not arise from them but was imposed on them from outside.

^^^Go to bed and strategize on how to break the yoke of endless slavery that was imposed on your people by the culturally inferior fulani through jihad!! Your brain cells are obviously blinkered!!