Let's imagine that I tell you the following story:
• There is a man who lives at the North Pole.
• He lives there with his wife and a bunch of elves.
• During the year, he and the elves build toys.
• Then, on Christmas Eve, he loads up a sack with all the toys.
• He puts the sack in his sleigh.
• He hitches up eight (or possibly nine) flying reindeer.
• He then flies from house to house, landing on the rooftops of each one.
• He gets out with his sack and climbs down the chimney.
• He leaves toys for the children of the household.
• He climbs back up the chimney, gets back in his sleigh, and flies to the next house.
• He does this all around the world in one night.
• Then he flies back to the North Pole to repeat the cycle next year.
This, of course, is the story of Santa Claus, also known as Father Christmas.


But let's say that I am an adult, and I am your friend, and I reveal to you that I believe that this story is true. I believe it with all my heart. And I try to talk about it with you and convert you to believe it as I do.
What would you think of me? You would think that I am delusional, and rightly so.

Why do you think that I am delusional? It is because you know that Santa is imaginary. The story is a total fairy tale. No matter how much I talk to you about Santa, you are not going to believe that Santa is real. Flying reindeer, for example, are make-believe. The dictionary defines delusion as, "A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence." That definition fits perfectly

Now let me show you another example...


Another example
Imagine that I tell you this story:
• A man was sitting in a cave minding his own business.
• A very bright flash of light appeared.
• A voice spoke out one word: "Read!" The man felt like he was being squeezed to death. This happened several times.
• Then the man asked, "What should I read?"
• The voice said, "Read in the name of your Lord who created humans from a clinging [zygote]. Read for your Lord is the most generous. He taught people by the pen what they didn't know before."
• The man ran home to his wife.
• While running home, he saw the huge face of an angel in the sky. The angel told the man that he was to be the messenger of God. The angel also identified himself as Gabriel.
• At home that night, the angel appeared to the man in his dreams.
• Gabriel appeared to the man over and over again. Sometimes it was in dreams, sometimes during the day as "revelations in his heart," sometimes preceded by a painful ringing in his ears (and then the verses would flow from Gabriel right out of the man), and sometimes Gabriel would appear in the flesh and speak. Scribes wrote down everything the man said.
• Then, one night about 11 years after the first encounter with Gabriel, Gabriel appeared to the man with a magical horse. The man got on the horse, and the horse took him to Jerusalem. Then the winged horse took the man up to the seven layers of heaven. The man was able to actually see heaven and meet and talk with people there. Then Gabriel brought the man back to earth.
• The man proved that he had actually been to Jerusalem on the winged horse by accurately answering questions about buildings and landmarks there.
• The man continued receiving the revelations from Gabriel for 23 years, and then they stopped. All of the revelations were recorded by the scribes in a book which we still have today.



What do you make of this story? If you have never heard the story before, you may find it to be nonsensical. The dreams, the horse, the angel, the ascension, and the appearances of the angel in the flesh -- you would dismiss them all because it is all imaginary.

But you need to be careful. This story is the foundation of the Muslim religion, practiced by more than a billion people around the world. The man is named Mohammed, and the book is the Koran (also spelled Qur'an or Qur'aan). This is the sacred story of the Koran's creation and the revelation of Allah to mankind.

Despite the fact that a billion Muslims profess some level of belief in this story, people outside the Muslim faith consider the story to be imaginary. No one believes this story because this story is a fairy tale. They consider the Koran to be a book written by a man and nothing more. A winged horse that flew to heaven? That is imaginary -- as imaginary as flying reindeer.

If you are a Christian, please take a moment right now to look back at the Muslim stories. Why is it so easy for you to look at these stories and see that they are imaginary fairy tales? How do you know, with complete certainty, that Muslims are delusional? You know these things for the same reason you know that Santa is imaginary. There is no evidence for any of it. The stories involve magical things like angels and winged horses, hallucinations, dreams. Horses cannot fly -- we all know that. And even if they could, where would the horse fly to? The vacuum of space? Or is the horse somehow "dematerialized" and then "rematerialized" in heaven? If so, those processes are made up too. Every bit of it is imaginary. We all know that.


An unbiased observer can see how imaginary these three stories are. In addition, [size=13pt]Muslims can see that Christians are delusional, and Christians can see that Muslims are delusional. While atheists can see that both of them are delusional[/size]



One final example
Now let me tell you one final story:
• God inseminated a virgin named Mary, in order to bring his son incarnate into our world.
• Mary and her fiancé, Joseph, had to travel to Bethlehem to register for the census. There Mary gave birth to the Son of God.
• God put a star in the sky to guide people to the baby.
• In a dream God told Joseph to take his family to Egypt. Then God stood by and watched as Herod killed thousands and thousands of babies in Israel in an attempt to kill Jesus.
• As a man, God's son claimed that he was God incarnate: "I am the way, the truth and the life," he said.
• This man performed many miracles. He healed lots of sick people. He turned water into wine. These miracles prove that he is God.
• But he was eventually given the death sentence and killed by crucifixion.
• His body was placed in a tomb.
• But three days later, the tomb was empty.
• And the man, alive once again but still with his wounds (so anyone who doubted could see them and touch them), appeared to many people in many places.
• Then he ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of God the father almighty, never to be seen again.
• Today you can have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus. You can pray to this man and he will answer your prayers. He will cure your diseases, rescue you from emergencies, help you make important business and family decisions, comfort you in times of worry and grief, etc.
• This man will also give you eternal life, and if you are good he has a place for you in heaven after you die.
• The reason we know all this is because, after the man died, four people named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote accounts of the man's life. Their written attestations are proof of the veracity of this story.



This, of course, is the story of Jesus. Do you believe this story? If you are a Christian, you probably do. I could ask you questions for hours and you will have answers for every one of them. You cannot understand how anyone could question any of it, because it is so obvious to you.


Here is the thing that I would like to help you understand: The four billion people who are not Christians look at the Christian story in exactly the same way that you look at the Santa story and the Muslim story. In other words, there are four billion people who stand outside of the Christian bubble, and they can see reality clearly. The fact is that the Christian story is completely imaginary.



How do the four billion non-Christians know, with complete certainty, that the Christian story is imaginary? Because the Christian story is just like the Santa story and the Muslim story. There is the magical insemination, the magical star, the magical dreams, the magical miracles, the magical resurrection, the magical ascension and so on.


People outside the Christian faith look at the Christian story and note these facts:
1. The miracles are supposed to "prove" that Jesus is God, but, predictably, these miracles left behind no tangible evidence for us to examine and scientifically verify today. They all involved faith healings and magic tricks

2. Jesus is resurrected, but, predictably, he does not appear to anyone today.

3. Jesus ascended into heaven and answers our prayers, but, predictably, when we pray to him nothing happens. We can statistically analyse prayer and find that prayers are never answered


4. The book where Matthew, Mark, Luke and John make their attestations does exist, but, predictably, it is full of contradictions

5. And so on.


In other words, the Christian story is a fairly tale, just like the other two examples we have examined.


Now, look at what is happening inside your mind at this moment. I am using solid, verifiable evidence to show you that the Christian story is imaginary. Your rational mind can see the evidence. Four billion non-Christians would be happy to confirm for you that the Christian story is imaginary. However, if you are a practicing Christian, you can probably feel your "religious mind" overriding both your rational mind and your common sense as we speak.


Why? Why were you able to use your common sense to so easily reject the Santa story and the Muslim story, but when it comes to the Christian story, which is just as imaginary, you are not?


Try, just for a moment, to look at Christianity with the same amount of healthy skepticism that you used when approaching the stories of Santa and Mohammed. Use your common sense to ask some very simple questions of yourself:


No one (besides little kids) believes in Santa Claus. No one outside the Muslim faith believes the story of Mohammed and Gabriel and the winged horse. No one outside the Christian faith believes in Jesus' divinity, miracles, resurrection, etc.

Therefore, the question I would ask you to consider right now is simple: Why is it that human beings can detect fairy tales with complete certainty when those fairy tales come from other faiths, but they cannot detect the fairy tales that underpin their own faith? Why do they believe their chosen fairy tale with unrelenting passion and reject the others as nonsense?


For example:
• Christians know that when the Egyptians built gigantic pyramids and mummified the bodies of their pharaohs, that it was a total waste of time -- otherwise Christians would build pyramids.
• Christians know that when the Aztecs carved the heart out of a virgin and ate it, that it accomplished nothing -- otherwise Christians would kill virgins.
• Christians know that when Muslims face Mecca to pray, that it is pointless -- otherwise Christians would face Mecca when they pray.


Yet, when Christians look at their own religion, they are for some reason blind. Why? And no, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Christian story is true. Your rational mind knows that with certainty, and so do four billion others.

There are 3 types of religious people concerning this article

1) The fundamentalist; He/she will read this article but when it comes to his/her religion and its fairytale, he/she will stop reading and classify the whole thread as blasphemy.

2) The apologist; He/she will read the article and then defend his/her own religious with convoluted logic while calling the other religions fairytales

3) The skeptic; He or she will read the article and ask questions for himself or herself about his/her religion. He or she will now go and do further research on religion and mythology. This is the most honest among the three

Can't stop laughing at every thing that I read here. . . . . . . .Religion and its bubble of delusion. . .People ONLY believe all these nonsense because of constant indoctrination mixed with fear of the unknown. . .In real life seeing is believing but when it comes to relgion believing is seeing. . .If most people were presented with the christian, muslims or hindu stories for the first time on their 21st birthdays most people will not accept the obvious mythologies and legends the espouse. Religion is purely a bubble of delusion. . .

logicboy01: There are 3 types of religious people concerning this article

1) The fundamentalist; He/she will read this article but when it comes to his/her religion and its fairytale, he/she will stop reading and classify the whole thread as blasphemy.

2) The apologist; He/she will read the article and then defend his/her own religious with convoluted logic while calling the other religions fairytales

3) The skeptic; He or she will read the article and ask questions for himself or herself about his/her religion. He or she will now go and do further research on religion and mythology. This is the most honest among the three

You have summed it up very nicely. . . .

The religionists are still drafting their reply, it will be long one ---

Great thread..
BUT a WARNING: The story of Santa Claus should not be read with the carnal mind or literally, it is an allegory...

musKeeto: Great thread..
BUT a WARNING: The story of Santa Claus should not be read with the carnal mind or literally, it is an allegory...

LWKMD

musKeeto: Great thread..
BUT a WARNING: The story of Santa Claus should not be read with the carnal mind or literally, it is an allegory...

Favourite christian excuse! Nice one muskeeto

How can you understand spiritual things with a carnal mind. . . .You have to be spiritually inclined to understand spiritually things. . . Favorite quote from christian apologist. . .Muslim apologist will just threaten your life or say that you are arrogant and blinded by allah already. . .

You know,
If I met Prophet Muhammad, I will diagnose him of schizophrenia and a host of mental conditions.

It seems to me that humans prefer things gotten through hard and cruel conditions. Because I see no reason why some humans will willingly fast. I see no reason why you have to go through repetitive,time-consuming,non-productive motions of prayer.(Salat). Islam is a tough religion. They take advantage of that feeling of reward after a hard work.( Games like World of warcraft do that too. ) So, it is absolutely unthinkable to my Mom that all her arduous early morning(rain or harmattan,midnight)prayers are pointless. That Saudi Arabia fleeced her of money under a dubious hajj. Hajj is simply revenue from tourism. Muslims are the hardest believers. They cannot simply grasp all their 'hardwork' in worshipping a non existent God is futile.

Avicenna: You know,
If I met Prophet Muhammad, I will diagnose him of schizophrenia and a host of mental conditions.

It seems to me that humans prefer things gotten through hard and cruel conditions. Because I see no reason why some humans will willingly fast. I see no reason why you have to go through repetitive,time-consuming,non-productive motions of prayer.(Salat). Islam is a tough religion. They take advantage of that feeling of reward after a hard work.( Games like World of warcraft do that too. ) So, it is absolutely unthinkable to my Mom that all her arduous early morning(rain or harmattan,midnight)prayers are pointless. That Saudi Arabia fleeced her of money under a dubious hajj. Hajj is simply revenue from tourism. Muslims are the hardest believers. They cannot simply grasp all their 'hardwork' in worshipping a non existent God is futile.

Muslims are not the only hard believers. . . .Christians are hard believers as well. . . .The islamic culture is more forceful and instills more fear into the minds of its believers. . . .

@ avicenna

so how do you cope,
i hope you will be careful to prevent your people from knowing that you dont believe their fairy tales anymore.
i hear that Islam is not tolerant to its apostates
all the best

cheers

mazaje:

Muslims are not the only hard believers. . . .Christians are hard believers as well. . . .The islamic culture is more forceful and instills more fear into the minds of its believers. . . .

one thing i observe is that Islam is inherently militant. you are to submit to Allah without questioning but you must enforce the will of Allah by all means necessary
by natural selection this religion has the "necessary gene" that will dominate other weak religions by sheer force of barbarism. turkey, lebanon, jordan, syria were once christian dominated countries.
infact i fear that Iran-Middleeast vs Israel-American tension may be a precursor to the atomic bomb warfare that may terminate human species as a whole. but i hope that rational thinking will catch up with them earlier than that. Islamic dogma,in my opinion, is the most dangerous dogma to the world at large.

while christianity emphasize love and self-sacrifice and draws its adherents by emotional appeal of a heroic loving godman who sacrificed himself for you. people who believe this story usually fall for this "hero" who loved them so much. ladies especially love heroes.
christianity usually build a low self-esteem "i am not worthy" mentality. and they like to suffer for their god. this is the most dangerous dogma not to the world but to its adherents. as those minds can easily be manipulated by tithe-collecting conartists

cyrexx: @ avicenna

so how do you cope,
i hope you will be careful to prevent your people from knowing that you dont believe their fairy tales anymore.
i hear that Islam is not tolerant to its apostates
all the best

cheers

Ha,Mr cyrexx, how have you been?

I v been coping. I no longer attend group prayers. Give them excuses. I want to pray alone.
It just seems perpetually ridiculous and absurd when I see intelligent adults swallowing fairytales without any doubt. Its not as easy as I thought it will be.
It is true that Islam,putting it mildly, does not tolerate apostasy. Forget 'there is no compulsion in religion'. Na so dem go tell u b4 u convert,convert finish, try commot frm dat religion, see wetin go happen to u.

cyrexx:

one thing i observe is that Islam is inherently militant. you are to submit to Allah without questioning but you must enforce the will of Allah by all means necessary
by natural selection it will dominate other weak religions by sheer force of barbarism. turkey, lebanon, jordan, syria were once christian dominated countries.
infact i fear that Iran-Middleeast vs Israel-American tension will be a precursor to the atomic bomb warfare that may terminate human species. but i hope that rational thinking will catch up with them earlier than that. Islamic dogma,in my opinion, is the most dangerous dogma to the world at large.

while christianity emphasize love and self-sacrifice and draws its adherents by emotional appeal of a heroic loving godman who sacrificed himself for you. people who believe this story usually fall for this "hero" who loved them so much. ladies especially love heroes.
christianity usually build a low self-esteem "i am not worthy" mentality. and they like to suffer for their god. this is the most dangerous dogma not to the world but to its adherents. as those minds can easily be manipulated by tithe-collecting conartists

Islam is very militant by nature as you rightly stated, christianity as we know it today has evolved a lot, it wasn't all so turn the other cheek and Jesus loves you and died for you as it is now, it used to be as militant as islam is today. Democracy and the open and critical way of the white man is what made it very soft. Now that white people know that is is all a farce they are leaving it in very large numbers. In 200 years time there will be very little or no white Christian in Europe I believe. People used to be killed for their unbelief and many were forced to convert, for get about all the nonsense stories about how the christian missionaries came to Africa and brought the "good news" to us. . .Many people were forced to convert to christianity, others were systematically converted. Those that weren't were punished in one way or the other depending on how useful they believed the conversion will suit their interest. . .

I abhor fundamentalist islam. . .Its very dangerous. . .

Avicenna:

Ha,Mr cyrexx, how have you been?

I v been coping. I no longer attend group prayers. Give them excuses. I want to pray alone.
It just seems perpetually ridiculous and absurd when I see intelligent adults swallowing fairytales without any doubt. Its not as easy as I thought it will be.
It is true that Islam,putting it mildly, does not tolerate apostasy. Forget 'there is no compulsion in religion'. Na so dem go tell u b4 u convert,convert finish, try commot frm dat religion, see wetin go happen to u.

There is nothing like no compulsion in islam, its all a farce, muslims love selling that lie. . .I know what my mum went through when she converted back to christianity which was her original religion, she only became a muslim after she married my dad and when he died she reverted back to her original religion. . .If she had remained in kano she would have been killed period . . Liberal islamic scholars are being attacked and their houses burned in some parts of the world talk more of apostates. . ..Its all a facade. . .Once you leave islam you will be in trouble as not as you are living among the slaves of allah. . . .The only way you will be safe is when you run away from them. . .

mazaje:

I abhor fundamentalist islam. . .Its very dangerous. . .

and the bad news is that they breed faster than other religious groups because they see children as Allah's gifts. even muslim immigrant population in europe is growing faster than ever. their biological evangelism is astounding.

i wonder if islam wont be the world dominant religion in 500 years time, i.e. if mankind has not destroyed itself

i just wonder.

cyrexx:

and the bad news is that they breed faster than other religious groups because they see children as Allah's gifts. even muslim immigrant population in europe is growing faster than ever. their biological evangelism is astounding.

i wonder if islam wont be the world dominant religion in 500 years time, i.e. if mankind has not destroyed itself

i just wonder.

Luckily the brand of islam practiced in the west is very soft and mild. . .The fundamentalist type doesn't get much traction. I like the moderate islam, but hate the fundamentalist type. . .The fundamentalist type seems to be the one practiced outside europe, in places like the middle east, some parts of asia and africa. . .Christianity used to be totalitarian, violent, and savage. Unbelievers were not tolerated at all, often they were burned at the stake or otherwise tortured to death. Those who had doubts learned to keep their mouths shut and not speak out or else they suffer.

Democracy when fully implemented came along with enlightenment, and the age of reason, and it became clear to all educated, civilized men that there were perfectly sound, material reasons for phenomena which had previously been ascribed to the "supernatural." Christianity was forced to change to deal with this new information and way of life. Churches either became much more liberal in their interpretation of scripture, or if they chose to remain stubbornly literalist, they ended up being largely sidelined. The church lost its power to dictate and terrify the people. Christianity had to change to survive.

Now, the Information age is spreading rapidly in the islamic world. Islam, in order to survive the onslaught of facts, will need to evolve just as christianity and judaism have had to evolve. Liberal Islam will have to become the home to the intellectuals who wish to continue in their faith, and fundamentalist islam will lose its grip on the masses. Muslim nations will no longer tolerate the iron fist of the fundamentalists, just as the christian nations threw off the shackles of Rome. . . .I know that I am just thinking wishfully, but islam has to be liberal to survive in europe. . .The fundamentalist type will continue to survive in places where there is very little education and lots of poverty. . .Just as fundamentalist christianity is surviving in those kind of places. . .

It may take another three or four generations, but fundamentalist Islam is doomed.

wow!wat an interesting story.

Every religion is a bubble of delusion. . . .Its only its adherents that will not see it because they are inside the bubble. . .

Yawn , the God delusionists are still at it !!

Every [b]religion [/b]is a bubble of delusion. . . .Its only its adherents that will not see it because they are inside the bubble. . .

Which includes atheism , the belief in nothingness !!

Why African atheists keep following the white man's 'religion' of atheism is beyond me.

Stick to your African tradition of worshipping idols and sacrificing children

frosbel:

Which includes atheism , the belief in nothingness !!

Why African atheists keep following the white man's 'religion' of atheism is beyond me.

Stick to your African tradition of worshipping idols and sacrificing children

Atheism a white man's religion of nothingness?. . .Is the african religion all about sacrificing children? I thought your god is also into the business of accepting human sacrifice as it was written in the bible as well?. . . .

mazaje:

Atheism a white man's religion of nothingness?. . .Is the african religion all about sacrificing children? I thought your god is also into the business of accepting human sacrifice as it was written in the bible as well?. . . .

Atheism is not an African tradition , that's for sure.

You have accused us of something you yourself are doing ,which is following the ideas of SOME godless Europeans, forming them into a religion and adhering to it's tenets and principles.

So yes, it is a religion you believe in , you are an active participant in this 'intelligent' belief system and an evangelist at that.

@ frosbel
with your deeply religious mind, its so hard for you to imagine that people can live without one religion or the other.
Well expand your mind, cos atheism does not follow any religion or beliefs, rather they hold NO superstitious beliefs and religion.
(In case you dont know, its very offensive and racist to Africans to associate African indigenous religion with only child sacrifice, as if Jewish Yahweh is not guilty of more crime).
Atheism is lack of religion, not another religion.
Delusion is following what you believe despite contrary evidence that disproves it.
Atheists just cannot follow any religion because there are countless evidences that disproves their validity.

cyrexx: @ frosbel
with your deeply religious mind, its so hard for you to imagine that people can live without one religion or the other.

On the contrary common sense tells me that there is a GOD. I believed that GOD existed eons before I became a Christian.

And it is not about religion, religion is man's method of defining GOD and pleasing him , hopefully to get some kind of favour. Religion is normally associated with rites , ceremonies and all manner of activities , often done in a very rigid and legalistic way.

Belief in Christ is different, you believe in HIM, repent of your sins and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

To suggest that something came out of nothing is foolishness , to imply that the orderliness of the universe and all life that exists is cause by some sort of freak event is even more silly.

Most of you reject GOD because you will rather continue in your pernicious ways of wickedness , he is almost like a barrier between you and all out evil , and without his unseen restraints many will plunge into the depths of evil untold.

Harsh but true.

Well expand your mind, cos atheism does not follow any religion or beliefs, rather they hold NO superstitious beliefs and religion.

they do.

Atheism is based on the superstition that by some abracadabra , we all appeared out of some massive explosion that rocked the 'emptiness' that existed at the time .

Not a few atheists ( not all ) believe strongly in evolution , an ideology that associated the intelligence of the Negro closer to that of primates than of a full man, an ideology that taught the black man is not yet fully evolved.

(In case you dont know, its very offensive and racist to Africans to associate African indigenous religion with only child sacrifice, as if Jewish Yahweh is not guilty of more crime).

Yahweh actually punished for the sin of child sacrifice , it's in the bible, and I will show you on demand.

Atheism is lack of religion, not another religion.

Atheism is a religion of nothingness , a superstitious one at that.

Delusion is following what you believe despite contrary evidence that disproves it.

I can prove that GOD exists , it's simple, the evidence is all around us !!

Atheists just cannot follow any religion because there are countless evidences that disproves their validity.

Atheists cannot follow any religion because they are deceived. The bible says even devils believe in GOD and tremble. Those devils must laugh atheists to scorn at the depth of their folly.

frosbel:
On the contrary common sense tells me that there is a GOD. I believed that GOD existed eons before I became a Christian.

And it is not about religion, religion is man's method of defining GOD and pleasing him , hopefully to get some kind of favour. Religion is normally associated with rites , ceremonies and all manner of activities , often done in a very rigid and legalistic way.

Belief in Christ is different, you believe in HIM, repent of your sins and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

have you read the original post/article?. your story is like Santa's or Muslim's story. you reject other's fairy tales and defend your own fairy tales.

a very good apologist i must call you. well done

frosbel:
To suggest that something came out of nothing is foolishness , to imply that the orderliness of the universe and all life that exists is cause by some sort of freak event is even more silly.

nobody suggested anything. i dont know what is "biting" you when your religion is exposed for a fairy tale that it truly is. Yes, Jehovah Witneses is religion, just a rebel child of his fairy-tale parent religion christianity

i dont have to explain the origin of the universe to you, scientists are doing justice to that without limiting themselves to a superstitious book that says the earth was created in 6 days less than 10,000 years ago.
but your religious mind will be closed to a proven and tested scientific findings that invalidates your bible.


just so you know, your bible stories are so similar to ancient babylonian's and other cculture's creation myths, it even lacks originality.

frosbel:

Most of you reject GOD because you will rather continue in your pernicious ways of wickedness , he is almost like a barrier between you and all out evil , and without his unseen restraints many will plunge into the depths of evil untold.

now thats so wrong.
religionists are only good because they fear hell or they want to go to heaven, whereas atheists are good for goodness sake.

atheists are more humanitarian than religionists, because they believe all the good that can be done should be done in this life, not in the mythical next life.

even the most peaceful nations on earth are the least religious nations e.g. Japan, Sweden, Denmark.
Nigeria, as very religious as it is, is one of the most corrupt nations on earth.
what does that tell you, mr apologist the defender of christian faith

frosbel:
Atheism is based on the superstition that by some abracadabra , we all appeared out of some massive explosion that rocked the 'emptiness' that existed at the time .

grab a dictionary and refresh your knowledge of the meaning of the word atheism, cos this statement shows that you are so ignorant of its true meaning.

frosbel:
Not a few atheists ( not all ) believe strongly in evolution , an ideology that associated the intelligence of the Negro closer to that of primates than of a full man, an ideology that taught the black man is not yet fully evolved.

atheists dont have to believe in evolution or anything for that matter, they just follow NO religion, WOW, do i have to repeat myself hundred times before you get this basic fact.

infact, this statement shows that you know so little about science and evolution, and understandably so, cos your religious mind is not willing to accept any scientific discoveries that invalidates your genesis creation story

frosbel:
I can prove that GOD exists , it's simple, the evidence is all around us !!

yeah, i will like to see one, because your religion teaches to believe without evidence. i will like to see evidence.

frosbel:
The bible says even devils believe in GOD and tremble. Those devils must laugh atheists to scorn at the depth of their folly.

another fairy tales of magical devil from the magical bible speaking to millions of human mind magically at the same time. your story is not different from other fairy tales, its just your "religious mind" overiding your "rational mind"

plain and simple.

frosbel:

On the contrary common sense tells me that there is a GOD. I believed that GOD existed eons before I became a Christian.

And it is not about religion, religion is man's method of defining GOD and pleasing him , hopefully to get some kind of favour. Religion is normally associated with rites , ceremonies and all manner of activities , often done in a very rigid and legalistic way.

Belief in Christ is different, you believe in HIM, repent of your sins and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

To suggest that something came out of nothing is foolishness , to imply that the orderliness of the universe and all life that exists is cause by some sort of freak event is even more silly.

Most of you reject GOD because you will rather continue in your pernicious ways of wickedness , he is almost like a barrier between you and all out evil , and without his unseen restraints many will plunge into the depths of evil untold.

Harsh but true.

Frosbel,
First of all, be assured that I am a religionist, a Muslim to be precise, so I have no ulterior motivation in saying what I'm saying except that it is associated with truth and objectivity! Here's my honest attempt at being objective:

If by God you're referring to a creator, initiator or cause of existence, then you are by all means, justified in your belief using mere logical extrapolation. However, to believe that this creator is the God described in the Bible or the Qur'an or any other holy book for that matter, is a massive leap of faith; for there exists no objective way to prove that indeed, the God you know is The one true God.

frosbel:

they do.

Atheism is based on the superstition that by some abracadabra , we all appeared out of some massive explosion that rocked the 'emptiness' that existed at the time .

Not a few atheists ( not all ) believe strongly in evolution , an ideology that associated the intelligence of the Negro closer to that of primates than of a full man, an ideology that taught the black man is not yet fully evolved.

Atheism is not a religion as you imply, far from! It is in fact, the absence of any belief system, which means that as an atheist, you are not obliged to believe in anything to be regarded as one. In light of this, you can, if you like, believe in the existence of a creator (by logical extrapolation) and still be an atheist, you may or may not believe in the big bang theory, you may or may not even believe in the theory of evolution. Atheism is, if you please, informed by a lack of conviction that even if there is a personal creator, there is an objective way to show that he needs us to please him, worship him or fear him. Furthermore, the fact that we have no material contact with him prevents us from knowing if truly, he is perfect, kind, good and so on. So to be fair, an informed atheist does have a rational basis not to believe in any belief system.
One error you've made is regarding your argument that the theory of evolution is patronising to the Negro's intelligence. This assertion is very incorrect. In fact, the theory of evolution asserts the contrary. To be clear, we are all primates, but the theory of evolution associates homo sapiens as being a single species, characterised only by differences brought about through adaptation to diverse environments. This is a very plausible theory without any religious bias or prejudice.

frosbel:

I can prove that GOD exists , it's simple, the evidence is all around us !!

While logical extrapolation (not necessarily correct) can be used to deduce the existence of a creator, truth be told, it is far easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for you to be able to prove with objectivity, that there is doubtlessly a God whose character is as the one described in the Bible, Quran, Torah, Bhagavad Gita or other religious texts.

Wow... what an interesting read...

OlaAjia:

Frosbel,
First of all, be assured that I am a religionist, a Muslim to be precise, so I have no ulterior motivation in saying what I'm saying except that it is associated with truth and objectivity! Here's my honest attempt at being objective:

If by God you're referring to a creator, initiator or cause of existence, then you are by all means, justified in your belief using mere logical extrapolation. However, to believe that this creator is the God described in the Bible or the Qur'an or any other holy book for that matter, is a massive leap of faith; for there exists no objective way to prove that indeed, the God you know is The one true God.




Atheism is not a religion as you imply, far from! It is in fact, the absence of any belief system, which means that as an atheist, you are not obliged to believe in anything to be regarded as one. In light of this, you can, if you like, believe in the existence of a creator (by logical extrapolation) and still be an atheist, you may or may not believe in the big bang theory, you may or may not even believe in the theory of evolution. Atheism is, if you please, informed by a lack of conviction that even if there is a personal creator, there is an objective way to show that he needs us to please him, worship him or fear him. Furthermore, the fact that we have no material contact with him prevents us from knowing if truly, he is perfect, kind, good and so on. So to be fair, an informed atheist does have a rational basis not to believe in any belief system.
One error you've made is regarding your argument that the theory of evolution is patronising to the Negro's intelligence. This assertion is very incorrect. In fact, the theory of evolution asserts the contrary. To be clear, we are all primates, but the theory of evolution associates homo sapiens as being a single species, characterised only by differences brought about through adaptation to diverse environments. This is a very plausible theory without any religious bias or prejudice.




While logical extrapolation (not necessarily correct) can be used to deduce the existence of a creator, truth be told, it is far easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for you to be able to prove with objectivity, that there is doubtlessly a God whose character is as the one described in the Bible, Quran, Torah, Bhagavad Gita or other religious texts.

I had this argument with your partners in delusion last year , it wasted my precious time, will not repeat the same back and forth cycle here.

Suffice me to say that atheists are very competent at being wrong with their nothingness fallacies.

frosbel:
I had this argument with your partners in delusion last year , it wasted my precious time, will not repeat the same back and forth cycle here.

typical christian, they run away when they ran out of reasonable ideas to defend their religion

frosbel:
Suffice me to say that atheists are very competent at being wrong with their nothingness fallacies.

and you think religionists, including your Jehovah Witnesses, are not very competent at being wrong in their superstitious fallacies?

frosbel:

Yahweh actually punished for the sin of child sacrifice , it's in the bible, and I will show you on demand.

While you may be right that some traditional African cultures and religions condoned the murder of children as sacrifices, you're incorrect to imply tacitly through your generalisation that this was a widespread practice. Even if it were widespread, an atheist may ask if that practice was any more repulsive than the order given to the Israelites to "Utterly destroy every man, woman and little ones of every city in Deuteronomy, or the story of Moses' companion slaying a [b]child [/b]for sins not yet committed in the Quran.