musKeeto:

You can't refer to a 'you' before birth. Except you believe in souls and the like...
You can. Before birth you were a fetus in the womb.by Uyi

@2nd bolded: Suicide?
Please endeavour to take this option and offer it to people around you so, you can prove to yourself that you are in control of your life

I.Joan:
Someone educate me on Mind and Consciousness?

I don't understand Deists... Why would you create something and you gonna have nothing to do with it after creation?

I.Joan:
Yes! That's why there are exception to all rules because The One who created the rules toys with it sometimes.

I.Joan:
Someone educate me on Mind and Consciousness?

I don't understand Deists... Why would you create something and you gonna have nothing to do with it after creation?

Uyi Iredia:

I'll suggest you read about it yourself. Google is your friend. Put very simply, deists, like theists believe that there is a being (a Creator) responsible for the origin of the universe. They don't (believe in or) believe it's the Christian or Muslim God because they note a clear lack of evidence for the Christian God (like atheists). As such they believe arguments made for the Christian God (and its attributes e.g wanting praise or prayer, or disliking gays) are gross extrapolations from the data.

A simple analogy. 3 people enter a garden full of flowers. One person says there must be a gardener (deist). The other says there is a gardener, the gardener likes cookies and is always present with the flowers (theist e.g Muslims). The last person says he sees no gardener so there is none (atheist)

Interesting point. Some deists have beliefs that come close to Christianity (such as prayer with God as they understand, belief that man is a spiritual being etc)

This is deism in a nutshell.

musKeeto:

And the agnost?

Uyi Iredia:

Says there isn't insufficient evidence to say there is a gardener. Like the atheist doesn't believe there's a gardener. But I thought you were saying you were kind of a deist.

musKeeto:

And the agnost?

mazaje: Of all the god ideas men have created, the deist idea remains the best to me. . .I don't have any problem with the deist idea or concept of god. . .It has its problem like all the god ideas but that idea is cool and the best of all the god ideas created by men. .

davidylan:

the deist idea only appears "good" to those who want to eat their cake and have it. i.e. they love the idea of a God who doesnt give them any rules but they still want to get to heaven if one exists.

Uyi Iredia:

The way Christianity appeals to some because of the prospect of entering an utopia not DEFINITELY proven to exist. They love the idea of heaven and live morally loose lives on earth. I certainly hope you won't try to rebut this by pretending these elements aren't Christians.

davidylan:

This response really befuddles me. What did it have to do with my response?

People who claim to be christians live morally corrupt lives... and how does that invalidate the clear principles of the bible?

Uyi Iredia:

You implied deists want to go the heaven without believing the respective God (who gives rules). I point out that some Christians want to go to heaven whilst living loose lives (ignoring the same rules). I didn't claim that it invalidated clear principles. It was to highlight the problems with your statement.

musKeeto: ^^^^^
Sounds similar to the 'Islam is perfect, Muslims are not' argument...

davidylan:

This makes no sense whatsoever.

davidylan:
Deists on the one hand dont believe a good God should send them to hell even though they absolutely refuse to be bound by His rules nor do they feel they even need to bother with acknowledging him.

davidylan:
christians who live immoral lives do so as a matter of choice, knowing full well the consequences. They have only themselves to blame.

davidylan:
The issues at stake here are as clear as day... but of course i am aware that you need to doggedly hold on to a non-argument just so you are the last to post.

Uyi Iredia:
His rules are open to various interpretations. This is well-documented in church history. Some in the OT are manifestly evil. Of course, you won't see this. If a paren't flogged the child indefinitely for an offence, you wouldn't endorse it. But for God, you've seared your conscience as to evil (a 'good' God) would make people suffer forever in hell.

Uyi Iredia:
Some don't even bother about the consequences. Some don't even believe they are immoral. Some fall intonthe category you stated. Just note these are Christians who don't play by God's rules.

Uyi Iredia:
What is clear here is that Christians share the same vices you proposed applies to deists. I think you should search yourself whilst admonishing others. I have made points respond to them. That helps one think and articulate himself better.

musKeeto:
Men, just testing each before I settle.. Better an open mind than a closed one anyways.. But I sense I'm moving towards deism everyday. My mind's been dwelling on the origin of life and consciousness. Maybe, we have the wrong concept of GOD.

Uyi Iredia: @ Evil Brain: Why didn't you reply me ?

Evil Brain:

Sorry. The posts were getting too long and too tedious to write. Plus I've been busy.

Besides, you said you're not a creationist anymore so you're not really the enemy. My problem is not with creationists per se, but with the irrational, bible centred way they think.

Evolution is a big idea with huge implications and its perfectly natural to be skeptical of it at first. You've shown enough signs here that you can think rationally so I'm pretty sure you'll come round to accepting it eventually. No need for me to grind you into submission.

I might still post a reply after work today though.

Uyi Iredia:
A simple analogy. 3 people enter a garden full of flowers. One person says there must be a gardener (deist). The other says there is a gardener, the gardener likes cookies and is always present with the flowers (theist e.g Muslims). The last person says he sees no gardener so there is none (atheist)

musKeeto:
Men, just testing each before I settle.. Better an open mind than a closed one anyways.. But I sense I'm moving towards deism everyday. My mind's been dwelling on the origin of life and consciousness. Maybe, we have the wrong concept of GOD.

Pastor AIO:

There is a dude there too that entered the garden and thought, 'wow, what a wonderful Garden!!! How best can I enjoy this garden?', and did not waste his time speculating fruitlessly on the existence of a gardener and what the tastes of the gardener may be for biscuits or foreign women.
Though he acknowledged the existence of a Gardener he also realised the pointlessness of creating ideas about the Gardener.

Uyi Iredia:

Does that describe you ?

Pastor AIO:

There is a dude there too that entered the garden and thought, 'wow, what a wonderful Garden!!! How best can I enjoy this garden?', and did not waste his time speculating fruitlessly on the existence of a gardener and what the tastes of the gardener may be for biscuits or foreign women.
Though he acknowledged the existence of a Gardener he also realised the pointlessness of creating ideas about the Gardener.

davidylan:

the deist idea only appears "good" to those who want to eat their cake and have it. i.e. they love the idea of a God who doesnt give them any rules but they still want to get to heaven if one exists.

mazaje:

Which rules exactly?. . .The idea of heaven sounds nice, but many deist do not even believe in heaven, so the claim that they want to go to heaven is false. . .How can they want to go to heaven when they do not believe it exist?. . .Many deist just believe god created and that is all. . .No after life (heaven, reincanations etc)and all of the other ideas men created along side their various religions. . .The deist concept agrees with the reality we see around us. . .

davidylan:

and this is relevant because? Feel free to ignore the bible... reading it is not by force.

davidylan: and? We should worry about the free choices they make because?

davidylan: This is nonsense because i did not attribute a "vice" to deists.

I simply differentiated between the deist and the immoral christian. The deist believes a "god" (whoever he is) exists but does not want to be bothered by following any rules he/she might have... the immoral christian BELIEVES that JESUS is but makes the conscious choice to break His rules fully cognizant of the consequences. where have i conflated the two?