6 One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Texas.Cowgirl:


Could someone please explain this to me?

When did Satan fall and why was he allowed heaven?

I have to say, the book of Job gets confusing.

*Trying to study the Bible*

sylve11: Why would God allow satan to be in His presence in the first place? R they friends?

Misunderstood_G: I guess Satan fell before the book of Job was written, Satan was not entirely banished from Heaven.. That verse shows God and Satan still talk.. And Satan also came to make a request, So I guess that's why he was allowed.

Texas.Cowgirl:


Could someone please explain this to me?

When did Satan fall and why was he allowed heaven?

I have to say, the book of Job gets confusing.

*Trying to study the Bible*

obadiah777: THIS STORY IS TOO MUCH MEAT FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS JUST STARTED READING THE BIBLE BUT LET ME GIVE YOU A FEW POINTERS YOU WILL NEVER GET ELSEWHERE
1-HEAVEN ALSO MEANS RULERSHIP. GHADDAFI AND SADDAM FELL FROM HEAVEN.

2-SATAN ALSO MEANS EMPIRES IN THE GENTILE ERA. ANY EMPIRE IN THE GENTILE ERA HAS AN EPHAH OF WICKEDNESS ( DOCTRINE AND PHILOSOPHIES ) THAT ARE AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD. AS SUCH THEY ARE CALLED SATAN. SATAN SIMPLY MEANS 'ADVERSARY'.

AND WITH THOSE TWO POINTS IN MIND. HAPPY READING

Logicboy03:



Stop reading the bible while smoking igbo and watching CNN

Logicboy03:



Stop reading the bible while smoking igbo and watching CNN

Oahray: Lol, funny answers. Lemme share my opinion too.

Satan had not fallen before that account of Job. The setting of that meeting was heaven. The 'sons of God 'assembled before God (Job 1:6). The sons of God there mentioned refers to the angels of God. Satan used to be one, but the tone of the passage suggests he had already begun his course of rebellion and accusation of God's servants. Still, he had access to heaven.

When Jesus said (after the 70 disciples he sent reported having authority over demons by the use of his name) that he beholds Satan fallen like lightning, it was futuristic (Luke 10:17,18). It's like this...

Let's say in the next Nigerian presidential elections, you support APC (the coalition), while the results are being compiled, you hear that PDP has lost in Lagos, Benin and Kano, and you say: "PDP has lost this election already". It's not that the winner has emerged already, but you see the loss in those states as a beginning of something bigger.

Not until the Revelation 12:7-12 (set in 'The Lord's day' sometime in the future, at the time of its being written) is Satan, along with other angels that joined the rebellion, truly cast out from the heavens. From then on, there no longer was any place for them in heaven.

From_Guiriga:

According to the book of John, NO ONE has ascended to heaven. Where did they assemble?
-Is Satan is still in heaven, then he has not been "sent" down, because he cannot ascend there (according to the letter of John)
-Is God in the presence and congregating with sinners? The great sinner Satan, the murderer?

I mean, he blesses those who do not do this things (Psalm 1)

Just reasoning.

Mudley313: These kinds of confusions arises when you steal from other religions to make your own up

Judaism (from whence the book of job comes from, pre-christians, and all) never teaches that satan was a rebellious angel who fell from grace. ha'satan, in hebrew, means the "adversary". he's there so god can have one being who won't be a yes man. he is, pun intended, the devil's advocate, trying to argue against god, so that god can keep sharp and on his toes. he is still, however, god's creation and under god's authority, ultimately. at least that's the jewish view of the matter.

see, in the days of king Josiah, a new idea developed in judaism, that those who were faithful to god would always be rewarded with long life, good health, wealth and many children, while those who strayed to the worship of other gods would not. it sounded reasonable, but over the course of time, some people noticed that many evil, unfaithful people lived to ripe old ages amid good fortune, while many good people died young, poor and childless. job was actually written as some sort of protest novel against the old, naive idea; the name "satan" literally meaning "tester". among jews, satan was simply the great skeptic, the one who tested people and ideas. All those other evil bs were added later by christians.

the son's of god were in "council" with god; being in council means they had a "hands on" in running the world and universe with god, and lucifer, a son of god had a perfect right to be there and showed up. just like lucifer had been called on by god to get the woman to eat the forbidden fruit in eden. bible god gave lucifer total rights to do whatever to job, anything but take his life, so lucifer killed the children and some animals and burned some buildings. god later gave job multiple times his animals and buildings, but you know what? the innocent children are still dead. that says a lot about how much god feels about human life.

I mean, it's clearly a mythological story, you're supposed to suspend all disbelief; god makes a bet with satan.... cool story bro!

Katier00 :
the story of job was a fictional story, it is nt real, it is jus an illustration

Oahray: Lol, funny answers. Lemme share my opinion too.

Satan had not fallen before that account of Job. The setting of that meeting was heaven. The 'sons of God 'assembled before God (Job 1:6). The sons of God there mentioned refers to the angels of God. Satan used to be one, but the tone of the passage suggests he had already begun his course of rebellion and accusation of God's servants. Still, he had access to heaven.

One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

i.chuka:

Satan fell before Gen1:2.
He was not allowed into Heaven,there was no mention of Heaven in that verse you quoted.he was barred from Heaven doesn't mean he's outside the sovereignty of God.he was only banned from Heaven.just like a someone can be banned from entering aso rock but can still appear in the presence of the president when he vists a particular state.

Texas.Cowgirl:


This is Job 1:6



"And Satan" meant that Son was excluded as heaven's angels. It's an exclusion.

So when did Satan Fall? Was this not during Adam and Eve's time? Satan was described as a Serpent in the book of Genesis, could he have fallen before Adam and Eve were created? Was Job alive during this period?

No one can tell me accurately why Satan fell and when he fell.

Oahray: oh... Thought the fall you meant was his expulsion from heaven. I get you now.

While the Bible does not state categorically when exactly he fell from his status as an angelic son of God, it does give a clue.

At John 8:44,Jesus describes Satan as a "manslayer WHEN HE BEGAN". That's an allusion to the interaction with Eve that spurred the first human couple on to sin, which in turn brought death to the human race. By doing that, he both opposed God and lied. His opposition earned him the name Satan (adversary) and Devil (slanderer). So it was obviously around that time he "fell".

However, Rev 12:7-9 indicates he was not banned from heaven immediately after the Adam and Eve saga, until the period of time covered by the book of Revelations; obviously long after the death of the apostles, and certainly long long after Job's time.

Oahray: oh... Thought the fall you meant was his expulsion from heaven. I get you now.

While the Bible does not state categorically when exactly he fell from his status as an angelic son of God, it does give a clue.

At John 8:44,Jesus describes Satan as a "manslayer WHEN HE BEGAN". That's an allusion to the interaction with Eve that spurred the first human couple on to sin, which in turn brought death to the human race. By doing that, he both opposed God and lied. His opposition earned him the name Satan (adversary) and Devil (slanderer). So it was obviously around that time he "fell".

However, Rev 12:7-9 indicates he was not banned from heaven immediately after the Adam and Eve saga, until the period of time covered by the book of Revelations; obviously long after the death of the apostles, and certainly long long after Job's time.

Texas.Cowgirl:


Is the bolded a Nigerian saying? "Stated categorically" huh? I only hear it on NL.

Oahray: lol. Dunno o. I think I may have learnt it from my primary school days and used it for almost two decades now

Ok, that's not true.

Texas.Cowgirl:


Wait, didnt his falling resulted in his expulsion from heaven or were they two separate events?

So assuming that Satan (an INTENTIONAL sinner) still occupied heaven after his transgression (according to the Rev), does that mean a sinner can occupy the vicinity of God in heaven?

Oahray: I'd get back to you on this one... The second question, that is. Lemme make sure I don't misinterpret.

^^ the primary school ish. I'm not sure when or how I started saying it. Maybe books, or other people. I tend to pick up, quite easily, alot of vocabulary baggage; gems and garbage alike.

omonuan: [This is not my opinion, I saw it somewhere on the Internet and I thought that it is an interesting thing to think about :

Satan vs. God

"The only evidence we have to conclude Satan's utter evil is God's word, and frankly, God's word isn't worth too much. He's shown a remarkable inconsistency in his actions and words, and he's hardly above lying or dishonest conduct. Straight after giving Moses the first set of Ten Commandments (which included "Thou shalt not kill", he let Moses go ahead and order the Levites to go on a mass-murdering rampages, which they did, but only after he talked God out of killing all the people! According to 2 Thessolonians 2:11-12, God will send a strong illusion to people so that they will believe lies, so he can condemn everyone to Hell. After giving Moses the Ten Commandments, God orchestrated a litany of atrocities through isoltated commandments that are simply too great in number to list here. I suggest checking out the The Skeptic's Annotated Bible to see for yourself, specifically this section. These events are detailed in Exodus 32. In 2 Chronicles 18:22, God lies to prophets. Why should anyone take his word at face value if he has no problem with lying to us for no reason other than to have an excuse to condemn us to Hell?

Who's more evil? God or Satan? How can we determine this? Well, it's a simple matter of looking at the actions of both God and Satan. Who's commited more evil acts? Who's done more harm to humanity? Who's been the most oppressive? Is Satan really as bad as the Christian Smear Campaign makes him out to be? Let's find out...

God

•God takes away Adam and Eve's eternal life, thus commiting the first murder, and holds their descendants responsible and visiting Adam and Eve's punishment down on their children. In today's moral standards, the sins of the father die with the father.
•God destroys all life on Earth in a great flood, except for a drunk (Noah) and his family, for failing to worship him.
•God's tenth plague upon the Israelites was the unjustified murder of all firstborn sons in Egypt, which undoubtedly included little children.
•Before sending the plagues to Egypt, God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so that he wouldn't let the Israelites go, so he could have an excuse to visit horrible plagues upon them, like boils, killing cattle and murdering all firstborn sons. (Exodus 4:21)m
•God orders the Levites to kill their "every man and his neighnor" for worshipping another god. This cost 3000 lives. (Exodus 32:27)
•God sends a plague to the Israelites, apparently feeling that mass-butchery wasn't enough of a punishment. (Exodus 32:35)
•God kills Onan for refusing to impregnate his late brother's (whom God also slew) wife and instead "spilling his seed on the ground." (Genesis 38:8-10)
•God kills the entire populations of Soddom and Gammorah (again, including women, children and infants) for practicing certain sexual techniques.
•God gives all Philistines hemorrhoids in their pubic areas. (1 Samuel 5:9)
•God kills over 50,000 people for looking at an ark. (1 Samuel 6:19)
•God kills 70,000 people because King David decided to have a census. (1 Chronicles 21:7-14)
•God approves of slavery, and instructs owners to beat their slaves. (Proverbs 29:19)
•And, finally, God makes sure that if you are guilty of even the smallest transgression, you shall suffer endlessly for all eternity, following a dramatic homecoming for Jesus, who will be extremely pissed off at everyone for putting him to death, even though it was just the Romans and even though he knew what was going to happen beforehand, and he could have easily avoided it by using his power as God to perform a miracle and prove who he was. (See the entire book of Revelation)

Satan

•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.
•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.
•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.
•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

It doesn't take a mathematician to add up and compare God and Satan's respective body counts. God has, after all, killed billions of people in a great flood. Satan never did anything like that. What was the only thing Satan did "wrong"? He rebelled against God, but wouldn't you? Look at what kind of a God he is! He needlessly murders people in nearly every book and passage of the Old Testament! He created an entire race of people for the sole purpose of catoring to his own ego, and then gets mad when we don't live up to our appointed role in life or question one of his decisions! He is a ruthless, dictatorial, narcissistic, sociopathic mass murderer. If I go to Hell for not worshipping him, so much the better. I'd rather spend eternity with Satan, someone who hasn't treated the human race like disposable garbage, someone who has given knowledge to humanity rather than trying to suppress it.

It's time to stop this needless slandering of Satan's name. Satan has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't killed anyone, publicly exonerated slavery, demanded our worship or threatened us with eternal damnation for not doing his bidding. It is God who is guilty of all these crimes. Satan's done nothing but rebel against a repugnantly unjust authority figure, and he gets eternal damnation and association and blame for all evil on Earth! Meanwhile, Martin Luther King, Jr. gets a holiday named after him, and Satan was far more courageous that King was. After all, Satan stood up to an all powerful narcissist who made it clear that he never would change his mind on any issue. King at least had a democracy to work with. The Christian Smear Campaign toward Satan is completely unwarranted. Maybe, before criticizing Satan, they should look at the God they worship. Is Satan really a bad guy? Certainly not in comparison to God. In fact, I'd much rather have Satan running things. He just can't be worse than God."

http://www.daltonator.net/durandal/religion/satan.shtml

Mudley313:

you have a point there, if both these made up entities were not outrightly fictional characters...anyways, time to bring out the infamous god vs satan body count comparison diagram (according to /recorded in gods own "holy" book, the bible)
[img]http://cdn1.cdnme.se/cdn/4/1263801/images/2012/bible_200825159.jpg[/img]

omonuan: [This is not my opinion, I saw it somewhere on the Internet and I thought that it is an interesting thing to think about :

Satan vs. God

"The only evidence we have to conclude Satan's utter evil is God's word, and frankly, God's word isn't worth too much. He's shown a remarkable inconsistency in his actions and words, and he's hardly above lying or dishonest conduct. Straight after giving Moses the first set of Ten Commandments (which included "Thou shalt not kill", he let Moses go ahead and order the Levites to go on a mass-murdering rampages, which they did, but only after he talked God out of killing all the people! According to 2 Thessolonians 2:11-12, God will send a strong illusion to people so that they will believe lies, so he can condemn everyone to Hell. After giving Moses the Ten Commandments, God orchestrated a litany of atrocities through isoltated commandments that are simply too great in number to list here. I suggest checking out the The Skeptic's Annotated Bible to see for yourself, specifically this section. These events are detailed in Exodus 32. In 2 Chronicles 18:22, God lies to prophets. Why should anyone take his word at face value if he has no problem with lying to us for no reason other than to have an excuse to condemn us to Hell?

Who's more evil? God or Satan? How can we determine this? Well, it's a simple matter of looking at the actions of both God and Satan. Who's commited more evil acts? Who's done more harm to humanity? Who's been the most oppressive? Is Satan really as bad as the Christian Smear Campaign makes him out to be? Let's find out...

God

•God takes away Adam and Eve's eternal life, thus commiting the first murder, and holds their descendants responsible and visiting Adam and Eve's punishment down on their children. In today's moral standards, the sins of the father die with the father.
•God destroys all life on Earth in a great flood, except for a drunk (Noah) and his family, for failing to worship him.
•God's tenth plague upon the Israelites was the unjustified murder of all firstborn sons in Egypt, which undoubtedly included little children.
•Before sending the plagues to Egypt, God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so that he wouldn't let the Israelites go, so he could have an excuse to visit horrible plagues upon them, like boils, killing cattle and murdering all firstborn sons. (Exodus 4:21)m
•God orders the Levites to kill their "every man and his neighnor" for worshipping another god. This cost 3000 lives. (Exodus 32:27)
•God sends a plague to the Israelites, apparently feeling that mass-butchery wasn't enough of a punishment. (Exodus 32:35)
•God kills Onan for refusing to impregnate his late brother's (whom God also slew) wife and instead "spilling his seed on the ground." (Genesis 38:8-10)
•God kills the entire populations of Soddom and Gammorah (again, including women, children and infants) for practicing certain sexual techniques.
•God gives all Philistines hemorrhoids in their pubic areas. (1 Samuel 5:9)
•God kills over 50,000 people for looking at an ark. (1 Samuel 6:19)
•God kills 70,000 people because King David decided to have a census. (1 Chronicles 21:7-14)
•God approves of slavery, and instructs owners to beat their slaves. (Proverbs 29:19)
•And, finally, God makes sure that if you are guilty of even the smallest transgression, you shall suffer endlessly for all eternity, following a dramatic homecoming for Jesus, who will be extremely pissed off at everyone for putting him to death, even though it was just the Romans and even though he knew what was going to happen beforehand, and he could have easily avoided it by using his power as God to perform a miracle and prove who he was. (See the entire book of Revelation)

Satan

•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.
•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.
•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.
•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

It doesn't take a mathematician to add up and compare God and Satan's respective body counts. God has, after all, killed billions of people in a great flood. Satan never did anything like that. What was the only thing Satan did "wrong"? He rebelled against God, but wouldn't you? Look at what kind of a God he is! He needlessly murders people in nearly every book and passage of the Old Testament! He created an entire race of people for the sole purpose of catoring to his own ego, and then gets mad when we don't live up to our appointed role in life or question one of his decisions! He is a ruthless, dictatorial, narcissistic, sociopathic mass murderer. If I go to Hell for not worshipping him, so much the better. I'd rather spend eternity with Satan, someone who hasn't treated the human race like disposable garbage, someone who has given knowledge to humanity rather than trying to suppress it.

It's time to stop this needless slandering of Satan's name. Satan has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't killed anyone, publicly exonerated slavery, demanded our worship or threatened us with eternal damnation for not doing his bidding. It is God who is guilty of all these crimes. Satan's done nothing but rebel against a repugnantly unjust authority figure, and he gets eternal damnation and association and blame for all evil on Earth! Meanwhile, Martin Luther King, Jr. gets a holiday named after him, and Satan was far more courageous that King was. After all, Satan stood up to an all powerful narcissist who made it clear that he never would change his mind on any issue. King at least had a democracy to work with. The Christian Smear Campaign toward Satan is completely unwarranted. Maybe, before criticizing Satan, they should look at the God they worship. Is Satan really a bad guy? Certainly not in comparison to God. In fact, I'd much rather have Satan running things. He just can't be worse than God."

http://www.daltonator.net/durandal/religion/satan.shtml

Oahray: the context of John 3:13 shows it was in reference to humans. Some translations even render it "No MAN..." instead of "no ONE". No human has ascended into heaven, but what of spirit creatures? In the Bible, angels used to come down to earth to deliver messages. Didn't they ascend back? Therein lies your answer. Satan isn't human. In any case, The events of the gospel of John preceeds the prophecies of Revelations (that foretells Satan's expulsion).

About the meeting, read Job 1:6 again. Satan entered in among them, uninvited. So God did not arrange a meeting with Satan as you implied.