Since this thread isn't going forward in its existing form, I'd like to ask Pastor Kun to respond to Enigma's question around which of the 'dictionary definitions' that were provided apply to Jesus.

What exactly do you mean when you say Jesus is deity? Is he deity like Sango, and others or is he the same in nature with YHWH?

debosky: Since this thread isn't going forward in its existing form, I'd like to ask Pastor Kun to respond to Enigma's question around which of the 'dictionary definitions' that were provided apply to Jesus.

What exactly do you mean when you say Jesus is deity? Is he deity like Sango, and others or is he the same in nature with YHWH?

I would stick with the biblical definition of Jesus which states in crystal clear terms that Jesus is the son of the Almighty God. Being begotten of God means he is of the same substance/make up as God but the bible makes it crystal clear as well that God is greater than him and he is subject to the will of God.

Pastor Kun:

I would stick with the biblical definition of Jesus which states in crystal clear terms that Jesus is the son of the Almighty God. Being begotten of God means he is of the same substance/make up as God but the bible makes it crystal clear as well that God is greater than him and he is subject to the will of God.

So why were you regaling us with dictionary definitions? How can one have the same make up/substance as God and not be God??

Second question: Are we to worship anyone apart from God?

debosky:

So why were you regaling us with dictionary definitions? How can one have the same make up/substance as God and not be God??

Second question: Are we to worship anyone apart from God?

I brought up dictionary definition becos it was obvious people here had different understanding of what deity and divine means as they were ascribing it only to God. To answer your second question; as christians we are to worship only God with Jesus christ being our intermediary(high priest) btw us and God.

Pastor Kun:

I brought up dictionary definition becos it was obvious people here had different understanding of what deity and divine means as they were ascribing it only to God. To answer your second question; as christians we are to worship only God with Jesus christ being our intermediary(high priest) btw us and God.

No - the dictionary definition only came in because you made the claim that Jesus is deity and not God.

Let me make sure I understand you - are we to worship Jesus? Yes or No?

debosky:

No - the dictionary definition only came in because you made the claim that Jesus is deity and not God.

Let me make sure I understand you - are we to worship Jesus? Yes or No?

Even though the bible states that Jesus is worthy of worship, our worship should be focused on the Father with Jesus as mediator. Jesus shares the worship directed to God.

To buttress my previous point, if you study the teachings of Jesus, he kept directing people to God and not himself. He never focused on himself it was always about the Father. He never directed us to worship him but God the father alone.

Pastor Kun:

Even though the bible states that Jesus is worthy of worship, our worship should be focused on the Father with Jesus as mediator. Jesus shares the worship directed to God.

But God ascribe worship to him alone here:Hebrews 1:6-"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

Pastor Kun:
Even though the bible states that Jesus is worthy of worship, our worship should be focused on the Father with Jesus as mediator. Jesus shares the worship directed to God.

Really? So God shares his worship with others? Why would God do so after telling us explicitly not to worship any other god?

Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Exodus 34:14

The bible says: You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve - Jesus quotes this very verse. So why would we worship Jesus? Is he the Lord our God?

Bidam: But God ascribe worship to him alone here:Hebrews 1:6-"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

There is no correlation btw your statement and the verse you misquoted.

debosky:

Really? So God shares his worship with others? Why would God do so after telling us explicitly not to worship any other god?

Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Exodus 34:14

The bible says: You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve - Jesus quotes this very verse. So why would we worship Jesus? Is he the Lord our God?

I have not said we should direct our worship towards Jesus. What I stated is that he is our mediator. He shares in God's glory and worship directed to God becos he is God's only begotten son in whom God is well pleased. Hence the special privilege.

Pastor Kun:

There is no correlation btw your statement and the verse you misquoted.

Hebrews 1:6-7

New International Version (NIV)

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

The word ascribe means to charge,assign,credit or impute in the context of words i used. We see God here giving a charge to the angels to worship Jesus.

Pastor Kun:
I have not said we should direct our worship towards Jesus. What I stated is that he is our mediator. He shares in God's glory and worship directed to God becos he is God's only begotten son in whom God is well pleased. Hence the special privilege.

Why are you equivocating? Should we worship Jesus - Yes or No?

The bible is not unclear on this, so why are you straddling?

Bidam:
Hebrews 1:6-7

New International Version (NIV)

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

The word ascribe means to charge,assign,credit or impute in the context of words i used. We see God here giving a charge to the angels to worship Jesus.

And are we angels

debosky:

Why are you equivocating? Should we worship Jesus - Yes or No?

The bible is not unclear on this, so why are you straddling?

My position is very clear on this, according to my bible we are to worship God with Jesus as our intermediary. That is were I stand. If you have any scriptures that clearly states(not infers) that believers should worship Jesus kindly quote it here for our learning.

Hebrews 1:5-6
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Rev 5: 12-14
12 In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, /for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

debosky: Hebrews 1:5-6
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Rev 5: 12-14
12 In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, /for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

I asked for scriptures that clearly instructs christians(and not heavenly beings) to worship Jesus.

Well, you guys will forbear with Kun the Pastor. This is the most teaching I have seen him give in recent times.

Business O Je.... lol!!!

The more reason Kun should be moderator so we can get him to talk more!

Pastor Kun:

I asked for scriptures that clearly instructs christians(and not heavenly beings) to worship Jesus.

I was expecting a pedantic response, and you offered no less. As a side-bar, do heavenly beings worship a different God than we do? Don't feel compelled to respond really.

debosky:

I was expecting a pedantic response, and you offered no less. As a side-bar, do heavenly beings worship a different God than we do? Don't feel compelled to respond really.

Are you an heavenly being If God in his infinite wisdom directs heavenly beings to worship his son why should I assume that the message is directed to us as well. Did God forget to tell us in specific terms

Pastor Kun:

Are you an heavenly being If God in his infinite wisdom directs heavenly beings to worship his son why should I assume that the message is directed to us as well. Did God forget to tell us in specific terms

Are you not among the all God's creation? Are christians created by zeus? You people Always look for silly excuse. How can a bible verse say christians should worship him when the "word christian" might not be in the bible... I stand corrected if it is

ok i checked and it seems christian appeared 3 times

Worship goes to the almighty God Jehovah and to him alone.

Jesus never questioned that himself:

Luke 4:8
8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is
Jehovah * your God+ you must worship, and it is to him
alone you must render sacred service.’”

he has no water in his mouth when he said so. but what about heb. 1:6? was that a contradiction? no. the word translated WORSHIP is proskyneo and shahhah in greek and hebrew respectively.

the word can basically means "bow down". such bowing could be a sign of worship or of respect to a king, prophet, fellow humans to pay homage etc.

so in decoding the sense implied, the context is of essence. when it refers to Jah or other gods, it logically means worship but when it refers to men, we can say it is just obeisance.

Hence Jesus himself has specified that his father is the one to be worshipped alone, it is logical to conclude that when they word applies to him, it means obeisance NOT worship. that is to say that heb 1:6 should be translated obeisance. it could also mean that even the angels worship God thru Jesus Christ.

Rev. 5:14 never stated that Jesus is the one being worshipped. what i said above is also helpful here.

Ishilove:
Hello sir. I want to ask you a question. Should I go ahead?

Pastor AIO: Yes Sister Ishilove, you may ask. But I hope it is nothing too impertinent?

Goodness sir, of course not!

My question is "are you really a pastor? I mean an ordained pastor?"

I am a true and ordain Fake Pastor. A mumu and a babalawo, perhaps even the very spawn of the devil.

Yet my favourite description goes as follows:



But let me join issues on the "Pastor AIO" debate here.

1. "Pastor" AIO is a FALSE prophet from the pit of hell. I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion, no matter how disagreeable it is. . . . that explains why I am comfortable with atheistic, agnostic and islamic opinions. But I do have a problem with people who choose to shield themselves with one thing to offer an opinion. AIO has repeatedly attempted to redefine the gospel with his assertions, and just as DeepSight pointed out, the contradictions are enormous and very very disturbing.


From here: https://www.nairaland.com/335826/pastor-aio-come-teach-us

Pastor AIO:

I am a true and ordain Fake Pastor. A mumu and a babalawo, perhaps even the very spawn of the devil.

Yet my favourite description goes as follows:



But let me join issues on the "Pastor AIO" debate here.

1. "Pastor" AIO is a FALSE prophet from the pit of hell. I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion, no matter how disagreeable it is. . . . that explains why I am comfortable with atheistic, agnostic and islamic opinions. But I do have a problem with people who choose to shield themselves with one thing to offer an opinion. AIO has repeatedly attempted to redefine the gospel with his assertions, and just as DeepSight pointed out, the contradictions are enormous and very very disturbing.


From here: https://www.nairaland.com/335826/pastor-aio-come-teach-us

Goodness...

to date no one on NL has even remotely tried to provide a definition of Deity or Divinity.

Even the dictionary definitions provided are so hopelessly circular they are quite useless to our needs.


What is Deity? Ans: 1)deity is a god. What is a God? a God is a deity.

What is a deity? Ans: Deity is a divine character. What is a divine character? The character of a deity.

What is a deity? Ans: the rank of a God. What is the rank of a God? er . . . A deity.

What is a deity? God. What is God? A deity.


Perhaps we should reframe the question. What are the qualities exhibited by a being that would allow us to know that it is a Deity?

Following @Philoversity

Deep Sight:
My deepest apologies, Anony and all.

I cannot continue this thread because I will be permanently withdrawing from Nairaland going forward on account of the unacceptable disposition of the owner of the site.

Best wishes.

ok, let us hear another person tell seun he cant do as he likes on his site.

permanent 2 month withdrawal,so much for that.

yes, go and take picture of someone sh*ting in their toilet, that's your prerogative.

What I have read all of your opinion, thought-out, view, and etc over argue or discussion issues. Honestly, it seem all of you waste of your breath it out of your air. Just do what you believe in JESUS CHRIST & respect one another. There is TRILLION different the bible are everywhere is impossible to find a TRUTH which we're believe it. Be honest with you, JESUS CHRIST will bring HIS TRUTH to us we will see HIM one day. Now all of you think of look back in the Old Testament, JESUS CHRIST had been travel to everywhere he's speech to them. They we're WELCOME JESUS CHRIST for supper together. JESUS CHRIST has never asking or covet them for MONEY!! Nothing. JESUS CHRIST's giving them love, cares, teaching, healing, and etc. JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR US ON THE CROSS, and He gave us a choice to make a decision. Just do follow what GOD's TEN commandment, simply. There is TRILLION bible have their own idea to put into that make people believe it. Like I saying just be carefully yourself, because it in the TRILLION DIFFERENT BIBLES may be trick us. All JESUS CHRIST have told HE's with you everywhere you go to your church, believe in HIM if you love HIM. YES! JESUS CHRIST understand people who aren't enough the money no matter what you are expecting to. All HE want you to continue reading your bible, studying that HE's teaching you & prayer everyday. HE DOES NOT NEED TO HEAR ALL OF YOU AGRUE OVER THIS OBJECT ISSUES, AND HE WANT TO SEE YOU TO RESPECT ONE ANOTHER, WHAT MAKE YOU HAPPY AND YOU MAKE JESUS CHRIST HAPPY THEN.. LET THIS PEACEFUL YOURSELF FOR HIM!!! Amen.