Both is better but we shd always pray for a child dat will be vanguard of islam. Masha ALLAH

tbaba1234:

Whenever there is a prayer for a child in the Quran , it is never specific. It is better to pray for a righteous child than to pray for the sex of a child. We are taught how to make duas in the Quran.

The other problem with this, is that once praying for a particular sex, we are not asking for what is the best for us and we lose sight of the blessing the other child. A man who raises 3 girls right, is going to jannah even if he had no boy.

Best thing, pray for the gift of both but do not despair if you are given just one sex.

here is what you wrote boldly up there-. DO NOT ASK FOR BOY OR GIRL.

I disagree with it still. Asking for a particular gender doesnt in any way prevent one from asking for other things.

I will agree with you only if you provide a text stipulating that you cannot ask specifically for a male or female child.

BRB

[quote
author=dasparrow]

@Bolded

Is that all you care about? So many Nigerian males - quite a few who are
Igbos by the way - are rottening away in far away jails in Asia and
around the world due to drug trafficking. Now who will the parents of
this convicted drug traffickers pass their properties to? What of those
who gave birth and raised their male children overseas in Europe and USA
and these children are now grown up and have no intentions of ever
living in Africa, who will the parents pass on the property to? What of
those who gave birth to male children but they died before their
parents, who will the parents give their properties to? Your mindset has
no room in this 21st century.

@Post

Nice thread![/quote] Ur on point!!i concur!!!

deols:

here is what you wrote boldly up there-. DO NOT ASK FOR BOY OR GIRL.

I disagree with it still. Asking for a particular gender doesnt in any way prevent one from asking for other things.

I will agree with you only if you provide a text stipulating that you cannot ask specifically for a male or female child.

It is in line with the etiquette of making dua just like the dua of Mary's mum in the Quran.

You can pray for any sex if you want, I am just promoting best practises.

And Allah knows best.

tbaba1234:

Whenever there is a prayer for a child in the Quran , it is never specific. It is better to pray for a righteous child than to pray for the sex of a child. We are taught how to make duas in the Quran.

The other problem with this, is that once praying for a particular sex, we are not asking for what is the best for us and we lose sight of the blessing the other child. A man who raises 3 girls right, is going to jannah even if he had no boy.

Best thing, pray for the gift of both but do not despair if you are given just one sex.

It looks as if you have a very valid point.

Why should two sheep be slaughtered for a male child and only one sheep for a female?
Isn't that gender discrimination?
If the prophet wanted to eliminate gender bias then doubling the Aqeeqa sacrifice of males is not a good idea.
That hadith about double offering for males contradicts your topic.

tbaba1234:

It is in line with the etiquette of making dua just like the dua of Mary's mum in the Quran.

You can pray for any sex if you want, I am just promoting best practises.

And Allah knows best.

Pls. dont make it a deols issue with the, 'you can pray for any sex if you want'

Many of us engage in discussions here to learn. If I wanted to just do what I want, I wont bother talking.

In Islam, you dont say something and expect people to just accept it especially when you are not giving a textual proof for it.


Acting sheepishly would be too dumb of anyone.

^ That is why I referred to the textual examples from the Quran.

What other textual evidence are you in search of? The best examples are in the Quran.

You made an absolute statement with a DO NOT.

My problem is with the do not.The donts in Islam are haram and should not be done or may even be a sin if done.

You can suggest or make it known that you think..

But telling people to not do something must go beyond saying, because a prayer in the qur'an doesnt include asking for a gender.


I must have read of or learnt of a hadith of a prophet warning against making what Allah hasnt made haram, haram.

and again, everything is allowed until there is a RULING making it haram. You havent provided a ruling.

Let me give an example to buttress my point.

Allah asks us to pray Tahajjud in the QURAN. and that doesn't even make tahajjud a command.He asks women to breastfeed until 2years and not breastfeeding until then, is not haram.

He asks that you pray for children who are... doesnt mean you CANNOT or should not pray for children of a specific gender. He is Allah and you can ask him For ANYTHING.

Well, maybe the emphasis is the problem but I clarified already that it is in line with best practises not a haram, halal issue.

Id modify the emphasis.

JazakAllahu Khair

deols: You made an absolute statement with a DO NOT.

My problem is with the do not.The donts in Islam are haram and should not be done or may even be a sin if done.

You can suggest or make it known that you think..

But telling people to not do something must go beyond saying, because a prayer in the qur'an doesnt include asking for a gender.


I must have read of or learnt of a hadith of a prophet warning against making what Allah hasnt made haram, haram.


and again, everything is allowed until there is a RULING making it haram. You havent provided a ruling.

Let me give an example to buttress my point.

Allah asks us to pray Tahajjud in the QURAN. and that doesn't even make tahajjud a command.He asks women to breastfeed until 2years and not breastfeeding until then, is not haram.

He asks that you pray for children who are... doesnt mean you CANNOT or should not pray for children of a specific gender. He is Allah and you can ask him For ANYTHING.

I am outrightly with Deols on this,the fact that Tbaba's explanation is textually robust not-withstanding.

I am sure Tbaba is not negating your stand on permisibility of being specific on your need. Though I also had a problem with the DO NOT but from a bird's eye view I believe his submission should be comprehended from the historical point of view of the Jahiliyah omen attached with the gender.

I think ALL of us are on the same page on this! Allaahu a'alam.

^ It is a good thing, she brought it up because many people can misread it and I didn't get what she was driving at initially.

Hopefully, I can get those kinds of comments more often if something doesn't sit right.

tpia@:
Why should female children give you the creeps?

Na fear o, whether you like it or not, females are like a target. The prophet (saw)(if i'm not mistaken) said train a boy and you've trained one person, train a girl and you've trained a nation.

With the way our society is going, women being objectified, a play thing. I think i have good reasons to be scared.

Now i understand its worth it, i'll have to give my best to my children(male and female) and pray Allah makes them righteous and coolness of my eyes.

Beautiful thread with sound reactionary comments

Printing out all of it for reference purpose

Come to think of it, if there are no mothers/females who will the men marry and how will procreation survive?

Jumma mubarak to all

Alhamdulillah.

deols:

Like tpia asked, why should the female give you creeps?

Does it stem from the thought that the male child is easier to train because

*even if he dresses indecently with tight fitted trousers or saggy baggy ones sweeping the floor, it doesnt matter as much as a girl not wearing hijab. People don't see what the boy does or don't care or think it doesnt matter.

*and even if he goes on having illicit sexual reactions, it doesnt matter either as his virginity is never to be proven at any point in time.

*and if pregnancy does come into the question, it doesn't tell on him unlike the girl, who'd have to take the 9 months course or have her life disturbed.

etc

Well, these kinds of thoughts don't help either and are a disservice to the male folks. It makes parents focus so much on the female child, as she is d one who must not break thereby neglecting the male ones.

My fear is borne out of my experiences i had and some that i am still having. I'll be equally saddened if my male child exhibit any of the above character(a'udhubillah), and like i posted earlier, females are a target, which makes their case special and demands special attention.

There is a standard i look forward to, a muslimah in every sense, and for me to train her to that level, looks daunting.

I don't think we really focus on the females negletting the males, it's on the contrary, a female would only go to madrasah and learn how to read the Qur'an and thats all! Only few go further, the reasons are complex, some of them are disheartening...

I wish all men can be like the Prophet(SAW), and some of my fears would fade away, but the reality is horrible, some men are wolves in sheep clothing and there is little i can do about it...

deols:
Every of life teachings is important for the male and female children and training neither should be creepier.

I understand your point, i wish i can easily see it that way, i know there are challenges in training a male child, but the ones i see for the females is quite greater, and i can only pray to Allah to make the task easier for us ameen.

Raising a girl child could be a daunting challenge especially if you are looking at it from a guy's perspective.

By the time a girl is 12-13, she is already been chased by older boys and grown men. Particularly if she is pretty. A boy at this age is still a kid, for him maturity comes a bit later.

I understand why parents focus on their girl child sometimes unfairly but it is motivated by love.

This post was orignally meant for the parenting thread but I brought it out here. I would write about raising kids on that thread when I learn more, from a Quranic view, in sha Allah.

tbaba1234: Raising a girl child could be a daunting challenge especially if you are looking at it from a guy's perspective.

By the time a girl is 12-13, she is already been chased by older boys and grown men. Particularly if she is pretty. A boy at this age is still a kid, for him maturity comes a bit later.

I understand why parents focus on their girl child sometimes unfairly but it is motivated by love.

This post was orignally meant for the parenting thread but I brought it out here. I would write about raising kids on that thread when I learn more, from a Quranic view, in sha Allah.

True talk my brother, parents can be overprotective, you can't really blame them, its the way things have turned out to be.

I'm seriously looking at it from a guy's angle, maybe when i get married it would be balanced lol.

I'll definitely follow the thread bro, may Allah bless your efforts ameen.

tbaba1234: Raising a girl child could be a daunting challenge especially if you are looking at it from a guy's perspective.

By the time a girl is 12-13, she is already been chased by older boys and grown men. Particularly if she is pretty. A boy at this age is still a kid, for him maturity comes a bit later.

I understand why parents focus on their girl child sometimes unfairly but it is motivated by love.

This post was orignally meant for the parenting thread but I brought it out here. I would write about raising kids on that thread when I learn more, from a Quranic view, in sha Allah.

Always following bro,may Allah reward you abundantly.

tbaba1234: Raising a girl child could be a daunting challenge especially if you are looking at it from a guy's perspective.

By the time a girl is 12-13, she is already been chased by older boys and grown men. Particularly if she is pretty. A boy at this age is still a kid, for him maturity comes a bit later.

I understand why parents focus on their girl child sometimes unfairly but it is motivated by love.

This post was orignally meant for the parenting thread but I brought it out here. I would write about raising kids on that thread when I learn more, from a Quranic view, in sha Allah.

being chased by men at a young age, could depend on where you raise the child and how you raise her, ie what kind of company she finds herself around.

I do not think most girls in nigeria are chased by men when they are 12 or 13 years, of course things have changed and maybe that's how it is now, but that's not how it used to be.



although, like i said, it might depend on environment since everywhere isnt the same.

imo, raising a boy or girl is equally challenging, but the girl carries the greater share of anything that goes wrong.

sino:
Na fear o, whether you like it or not, females are like a target. The prophet (saw)(if i'm not mistaken) said train a boy and you've trained one person, train a girl and you've trained a nation.

With the way our society is going, women being objectified, a play thing. I think i have good reasons to be scared.

Now i understand its worth it, i'll have to give my best to my children(male and female) and pray Allah makes them righteous and coolness of my eyes.

well, you know the expression you used- "give you the creeps", has a different meaning from just being scared.

and, i initially thought you and deols were posting in conjunction with each other until i noticed her agreeing with me and even mentioning me by name. That means she is really disturbed and angered by your post, just saying.


if you were christian, i would know how to address your post, but since you're not, I'll just say,

dont let your destiny agree with what you're typing.

meaning should your destiny agree with what you're typing, would that be a good or bad thing.

for example, say instead of:

i was having serious issues thinking of my future children in sha Allah, how to raise them up Islamically and i tell you, female children gave me the creeps....

you typed:

i was having serious issues thinking of my future children in sha Allah, how to raise them up Islamically and i tell you, female children gave me delight....

which do you think would be better.

i dont know if you're indian, hispanic, middle eastern, or some other nationality, but the context in which I'm typing is assuming you're nigerian.

with the way our society is going, women being objectified, a play thing. I think i have good reasons to be scared.

very true.

tpia, stop reading untrue meanings. I wasn't angry. Why would I be?

sino:

My fear is borne out of my experiences i had and some that i am still having. I'll be equally saddened if my male child exhibit any of the above character(a'udhubillah), and like i posted earlier, females are a target, which makes their case special and demands special attention.

There is a standard i look forward to, a muslimah in every sense, and for me to train her to that level, looks daunting.

I don't think we really focus on the females negletting the males, it's on the contrary, a female would only go to madrasah and learn how to read the Qur'an and thats all! Only few go further, the reasons are complex, some of them are disheartening...

I wish all men can be like the Prophet(SAW), and some of my fears would fade away, but the reality is horrible, some men are wolves in sheep clothing and there is little i can do about it...


I understand your point, i wish i can easily see it that way, i know there are challenges in training a male child, but the ones i see for the females is quite greater, and i can only pray to Allah to make the task easier for us ameen.

Even though I have an understanding of what you are driving at, I still don't see the 'daunting' part.

Let each of the childr3n know what is right and what is wrong.

Let them all have good education.

Dont discriminate while bringing them up.

I stated all I did, not because I thought it was what you meant(and is d reason I asked in a question format in case it was what you meant) but because I see it happening a lot.


You mentioned that a girl cannot be hafidh, for where?

I think believing that a female child is limited and will have limited opportunities is a big problem. If they don't already have the opportunities, they can be created.

with the way our society is going, women being objectified, a play thing. I think i have good reasons to be scared.

It is a matter of teaching them what is right or wrong. In some societies, both men and women can become objects.

Children need to be brought up to know what is right and wrong.

It is not a worse situation that it is the girl being used and not the boy.

Raising a girl child could be a daunting challenge especially if you are looking at it from a guy's perspective.

By the time a girl is 12-13, she is already been chased by older boys and grown men. Particularly if she is pretty. A boy at this age is still a kid, for him maturity comes a bit later.

I understand why parents focus on their girl child sometimes unfairly but it is motivated by love.

Like I have been saying, it doesnt matter whether 12 or 15. Eventually, they'll reach that stage of puberty.A 12 yr old boy who sees all the latest movies might be much more grown than he appears.


If he is d one doing the chase, does it make a difference? Have you heard of primary school pupils dating and even having sexual intercourse?


so what you expose them to, the environment they grow in, how much self esteem they have, what you teach them of ambition, future goals, and the pleasure of Allah are what matter.


Life doesnt have to be especially hard for the female child and I am speaking this way because I know that most of the girls who later became wayward felt victimised and saw the need to escape.

tpia@:


well, you know the expression you used- "give you the creeps", has a different meaning from just being scared.

I know, that was why i replied you with the meaning i was referring to which is fear.

tpia@:

and, i initially thought you and deols were posting in conjunction with each other until i noticed her agreeing with me and even mentioning me by name. That means she is really disturbed and angered by your post, just saying.

lol, why do i get the feeling that my post do not go down well with the females? Even after i concluded it with my new mindset...

tpia@:

if you were christian, i would know how to address your post, but since you're not, I'll just say,

dont let your destiny agree with what you're typing.

meaning should your destiny agree with what you're typing, would that be a good or bad thing.

for example, say instead of:




you typed:




which do you think would be better.

i dont know if you're indian, hispanic, middle eastern, or some other nationality, but the context in which I'm typing is assuming you're nigerian.

I understand you perfectly, i cherish positive thinking and i'm also an advocate for it, even though i know my destiny has been sealed, only prayers can change it, the reason i am praying and continue to pray that Allah Blesses me with righteous children (prayer is also positive thinking).

omo naija ni mi o...

deols:

Even though I have an understanding of what you are driving at, I still don't see the 'daunting' part.

Let each of the childr3n know what is right and what is wrong.

Let them all have good education.

Dont discriminate while bringing them up.

I stated all I did, not because I thought it was what you meant(and is d reason I asked in a question format in case it was what you meant) but because I see it happening a lot.


You mentioned that a girl cannot be hafidh, for where?

I think believing that a female child is limited and will have limited opportunities is a big problem. If they don't already have the opportunities, they can be created.

Deols, it's not about discrimination, but understanding the differences between a male and the female child and giving the appropriate attention to them. I think we the muslim males should be complaining sef, there is no promise of paradise raising the male child na, mothers are meant to be honored three times more than the father, paradise lies at her feet.

No doubt, they both need adequate education and the need to know the right from the wrong, but the females need more attention and care, did you not read my quote about training a nation by training the female child? have you heard about girls with daddy issues? Why is our society going south morally? We all know that mothers play a big role in the family.

My reasons, are quite beyond what you stated, but true, it happens a lot. Boys or girls can equally bring shame to the family.

I didn't say females cannot be hafidh, what i said was that most females do not go beyond learning how to read the Qur'an, we can do a little survey, in your street, how many muslim females are graduate of a madrasah idadiyyah?

I agree with your last point, although i don't see her as being limited, rather i see her as being neglected and not adequately catered for, hence the need to dedicate more resources in training the female child which makes it a challenge quite different from the male child.

tpia@:


being chased by men at a young age, could depend on where you raise the child and how you raise her, ie what kind of company she finds herself around.

I do not think most girls in nigeria are chased by men when they are 12 or 13 years, of course things have changed and maybe that's how it is now, but that's not how it used to be.



although, like i said, it might depend on environment since everywhere isnt the same.

imo, raising a boy or girl is equally challenging, but the girl carries the greater share of anything that goes wrong.

Madam, many girls aged 12-13 expect to be chased in Nigeria. You will be shocked to know.

sino:
Deols, it's not about discrimination, but understanding the differences between a male and the female child and giving the appropriate attention to them. I think we the muslim males should be complaining sef, there is no promise of paradise raising the male child na, mothers are meant to be honored three times more than the father, paradise lies at her feet.

No doubt, they both need adequate education and the need to know the right from the wrong, but the females need more attention and care, did you not read my quote about training a nation by training the female child? have you heard about girls with daddy issues? Why is our society going south morally? We all know that mothers play a big role in the family.

My reasons, are quite beyond what you stated, but true, it happens a lot. Boys or girls can equally bring shame to the family.

I didn't say females cannot be hafidh, what i said was that most females do not go beyond learning how to read the Qur'an, we can do a little survey, in your street, how many muslim females are graduate of a madrasah idadiyyah?

I agree with your last point, although i don't see her as being limited, rather i see her as being neglected and not adequately catered for, hence the need to dedicate more resources in training the female child which makes it a challenge quite different from the male child.

I get your point. However, what is required of you is to be sincere in your attempt at raising daughters and praying for Allah's blessings on you and them. When you worry about the challenges, think about the prospects. Daughters tend to care more for their parents. I suspect that the love a daughter feels for her dutiful father has to be one of the strongest emotions in human beings.

sino:
Deols, it's not about discrimination, but understanding the differences between a male and the female child and giving the appropriate attention to them. I think we the muslim males should be complaining sef, there is no promise of paradise raising the male child na, mothers are meant to be honored three times more than the father, paradise lies at her feet.

No doubt, they both need adequate education and the need to know the right from the wrong, but the females need more attention and care, did you not read my quote about training a nation by training the female child? have you heard about girls with daddy issues? Why is our society going south morally? We all know that mothers play a big role in the family.

My reasons, are quite beyond what you stated, but true, it happens a lot. Boys or girls can equally bring shame to the family.

I didn't say females cannot be hafidh, what i said was that most females do not go beyond learning how to read the Qur'an, we can do a little survey, in your street, how many muslim females are graduate of a madrasah idadiyyah?

I agree with your last point, although i don't see her as being limited, rather i see her as being neglected and not adequately catered for, hence the need to dedicate more resources in training the female child which makes it a challenge quite different from the male child.

From this, I know that you got what I am driving at.

and still, I disagree with your method. Maybe I should already let go but pardon me pls.


Education wise(madrassah inclusive), I dont see how a girl doesnt have what a guy has. In fact, I believe that they have equal opportunities. Now, we may be talking of different environments. so, that'll pass.


As to giving the girl more attention, with it, we'll end up having a future of responsible girls with no equally responsible men to match.

It is already happening.

I heard yesterday of a family who wouldn't allow their son marry a particular girl because she's been coming to sleep with him in their house. All the while that she's been coming, they didnt complain. Marriage comes into the discussion and they realise that their irresponsible son deserves a responsible girl. It is now generally acceptable that a girl is the one who must be chaste, must be respectable, must learn to cook, etc while the boy looks on or plays on or becomes an NFA member.


My point remains that, whatever training, attention, madrassah fees, etc that a girl is getting, a boy should also be getting. It should be seen as a normal thing to get among the children and not what a girl gets and a boy doesnt deserve.