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Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Nobody: 6:36pm On Jul 05, 2013 |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by okeyxyz(m): 10:00pm On Jul 05, 2013 |
If this man is saying that the Woman can have spiritual authority over the man, then he's got it absolutely wrong. THis is what you get when people want to force spiritual doctrine meet with secular values. The scripture expressly states that these two must be kept apart, even while abiding by both systems. Yes! submit to secular systems and submit to spiritual systems but you MUST keep them separate. A man who forces these two systems together has no idea what spirituality and christian doctrine is about. You can have a female boss at work, No problem, A woman president, vice-chancellor, bread-winner, governor, etc, Again:No problem. These are secular systems, but You cannot have a woman pastor, evangelist, prophet(there's a difference between gift of prophesy and an office of a prophet), teacher and apostle. These are offices that requires a masculine discernment and control. It's not about having spiritual gifts(though essential) but also about discernment and rulership, of which this office calls for a masculine mind. This is about leadership, not about management, as they two are very different functions. These offices are not about who follows or preaches doctrine, but more about who makes/creates doctrine. It's about who has the mentality to see an alternative and overrule the system/doctrine. The feminine does not overrule the system, she is the system itself. ^^^ Okay, I know this will be gibberish to a lot of people here Nevertheless, The few who are enlightened will see the wisdom in it. 1 Like |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by flourishG(m): 10:18pm On Jul 05, 2013 |
soo much ideology and human philosophy in da video. 1 Like |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by DrummaBoy(m): 10:28pm On Jul 05, 2013 |
okeyxyz: If this man is saying that the Woman can have spiritual authority over the man, then he's got it absolutely wrong. THis is what you get when people want to force spiritual doctrine meet with secular values. The scripture expressly states that these two must be kept apart, even while abiding by both systems. Yes! submit to secular systems and submit to spiritual systems but you MUST keep them separate. A man who forces these two systems together has no idea what spirituality and christian doctrine is about. I agree with you Okeyzz. Calling women into Christian ministry is like asking the woman to head the home while the man is there. The reason why women can go into ministry is the reason why ministry has become what it is today: a sham. Nevertheless, I do not say a woman cannot be called to a ministry but it must be under a man. Paul's words are scripture here: 1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by shdemidemi(m): 10:30pm On Jul 05, 2013 |
Did the man say women can teach? |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by DrummaBoy(m): 10:32pm On Jul 05, 2013 |
I got this from www.acts1711daily.com and it is also my position on women ministers THE BIBLE AND WOMEN PREACHERS |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by flourishG(m): 10:43pm On Jul 05, 2013 |
^great article.d bible doesn't speak in tongues but in plain n understandable languages.u will always find pple who will bend d word to suit there man made teachings. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Joagbaje(m): 1:32am On Jul 06, 2013 |
We have many women leaders over men in the bible. There was female ruler in Israel ,there were female prophetesses in the bible there were female pastors and teachers in the New Testament .there were female deaconesses in the bible. Wetin remain? |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Nobody: 2:56am On Jul 06, 2013 |
Joagbaje: We have many women leaders over men in the bible. There was female ruler in Israel ,there were female prophetesses in the bible there were female pastors and teachers in the New Testament .there were female deaconesses in the bible. Wetin remain? quote the passages..... |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Nobody: 5:31am On Jul 06, 2013 |
Logicboy03:I would be shocked if he points to anyone in the New Testament... The Old Testament can be conveniently quoted now. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Nobody: 5:35am On Jul 06, 2013 |
musKeeto: That is the reason I am asking.....I want to see where the New Testament supports his view because it negates it outrightly. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by okeyxyz(m): 6:07am On Jul 06, 2013 |
Joagbaje: We have many women leaders over men in the bible. There was female ruler in Israel ,there were female prophetesses in the bible there were female pastors and teachers in the New Testament .there were female deaconesses in the bible. Wetin remain? Name them, Give their leadership/authority roles and bible references. Mind you, A leader is not somebody who preaches or introduces another person to the gospel/doctrine, everybody can do that. A leader is not somebody who has a gift of prophesy (which is freely available to everybody to ask of the spirit). A leader has to be a Law/doctrine Maker, not merely a person with spiritual gift(again, everybody can have spiritual gifts). A leader has to have authority even over his spiritual gifts. This is not a feminine spiritual attribute. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by DrummaBoy(m): 11:10am On Jul 06, 2013 |
[quote author=Joagbaje]We have many women leaders over men in the bible. There was female ruler in Israel ,there were female prophetesses in the bible there were female pastors and teachers in the New Testament .there were female deaconesses in the bible. Wetin remain?[/quote] Joagbaje You have been on this forum long enough to know that a statement like yours need scriptural references. I am surprised Alwaysttrue has not seen this thread yet. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Yooguyz: 8:48am On Jul 16, 2013 |
okeyxyz:Deborah was a prophetess and was a one time ruler of isreal. Follow this link www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/women.htm |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Tgirl4real(f): 8:56am On Aug 23, 2013 |
I just knew Deborah would surface. hahahahaha How many of Deborahs do we see in scriptures? |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Alwaystrue(f): 9:45am On Aug 23, 2013 |
@Ihedinobi, for some strange reason, I could not watch the video so I could not get the meat of this discussion. @Drummerboy, I am answering this as I noticed you brought my monnikker into this discussion again though it is an old post. The link you posted above summed up a lot on women in ministry. As Paul said 'he' does not suffer women to teach and he gave reasons just as 'he' would prefer some people do not get married. However, I understand clearly what he is passing accross irrespective. Women have a very important role to play in ministry and the men are best in leadership roles therefore. However, for a woman giving biblical insight on a forum, meeting or discusion on bible matters based on scripture that cannot be faulted is not wrong. Paul was right in saying He does not allow a woman Lord it over a man as that is not right but he never meant that a woman cannot discuss spiritual matters as you have times without number tried to bring accross here. I answered you once when you brought this up and gave you explanation. I see women more as ministers like Phoebe and Dorcas and Priscilla working with her husband as the women have lots of responsibilities at the home front which many men do not. But even some of the women who have ministries have support from their husbands like Joyce Meyer and if men decide they love to partake of such ministry there is nothing anyone can do about that. There are many ministries run by women for family causes, abused women or children, widows and it often grows large enough to accept other genders therefore, it is quite myopic to try to cage such in a box because of certain prejudices. In Christ there is no male or female so as long as the word is preached in spirit and truth, God has the final say. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by DrummaBoy(m): 10:13am On Aug 23, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: Thank you for responding so 'well'. There was no antagonism in your voice this time around. The post I put up is certainly my position although I cannot fault your putting Paul in the 'he' category because it certainly was his opinion at that time and their tradition permitted it then. But there is a wealth of wisdom in what he said and you also agree with it in the upper bolded above. However, I am not against women discussing religion per se. What I said and still hold unto is that women do not have the constitution to weather the storms that follows such discusses. Because of the tendency for emotionalism and sentimentalism, women tend to via off point in religion discourses and before you know it, if one is to respond to their frequency, we would all be at each other's throats. Religion discuss, like preaching, is warfare and comes with a great deal of responsibility that God has particularly constituted men for. Now, it doesn't mean that we do not have some women venture into this perilous field of life (the way you and tgirl4real do), with some excelling greatly in it, but once in a while, they still betray those characteristics as mentioned above. You mention Joyce Meyer: unfortunately, she is not a very good example at this point. With the health and wealth gospel that woman and her clique espouse, it would be better she was never in ministry. The very spirit of the gospel she preaches is what is making for all these women in ministry we see all around. For me, she does more harm than good. There is a growing welter of women ministry in Nigeria today that take on the guise of the 'Prophetess'. Those people are doing a lot of harm to homes and people's lives than adding to it. They are our own kind of Joyce Meyer but in the third world. Paul himself mentioned Phoebe and co but it is obvious that whatever ministry they carried out was under a man or their husbands. I agree also that many women are finding ministry to widows, orphans, etc. This is very commendable but it should not go beyond that. Women preaching or leading a church has no NT foundation or even in the whole of scripture. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Tgirl4real(f): 10:36am On Aug 23, 2013 |
lol I can't believe I resurrected this thread. lol |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Alwaystrue(f): 10:45am On Aug 23, 2013 |
@Drummaboy, Your commending me is funny as I have often seen you showing a lot more emotions, prejudices and personality into our discussions more than I can think I have. Whenever you tell me I get emotional in my posts to you , you never actually showed me where but I can point quite a number of where you held grouses and all with me and at a point I had to refrain responding as you seemed too obsessed with my monikker with the way you mentioned it here and there but let me let that pass. I mentioned Joyce Meyer as I see her in ministry supported by her husband. Whatever opinions anyone of us have of her does not really matter. If she feels she has been called into ministry and is touching lives, please leave God to handle it. When you get careful of the way to talk about people it helps you see them with better eyes. That is why I find it quite strange to see the way Christians speak about each other and even those in leadership. Whatever ministry a man or woman is called to handle by God, He will query them whether they went beyond it or did not do as they were supposed to, not by any man for only God knows the intentions of a man's heart. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by DrummaBoy(m): 11:01am On Aug 23, 2013 |
^ End of Discussion I hope U make out time to visit the convention thread I have below as my signature. Bidam has already taken us up for not including you as one of the presenters. Even though that it is the way its arranged anyone can present his paper at any point on the thread if they so wish. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Alwaystrue(f): 11:14am On Aug 23, 2013 |
^^^^^ I will see what the presenters will show, and I believe we will all learn though I can see the basis for the crop of presenters were anyone who does not tithe...it was so glaring it was even mentioned by one of the posters. I really wondered why @Bidam was therefore so piqued. Also it will be refreshig to hear @shdemidemi speak on grace throughout the bible as he has often posited that only certain books were written to Christians. Though I think it will do him more good when he studies more. It will be nice to hear @debosky, @Ihedinobi, @tgirl4real and @Image speak on grace but hopefully they will comment. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Goshen360(m): 11:17am On Aug 23, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: ^^^^^ Na wha for you o. How you dey naw? |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Alwaystrue(f): 11:19am On Aug 23, 2013 |
I dey, I dey @Goshen |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Goshen360(m): 11:24am On Aug 23, 2013 |
^ Bidam don say you be 'seasoned' teacher. I know say na God add salt and seasoning to your life, that's why you're the salt of the world. I don explain to him why everyone cannot do teaching at this first edition, not as you wrongly concluded. Why you sef come dey fall hands naw? |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Alwaystrue(f): 11:29am On Aug 23, 2013 |
@Goshen, no one dey fall your hand na. Afterall na your best judgement you use na, e no surprise me at all. I think I would have been more surprised if you added some of the names @Bidam mentioned o. You are just so predictable that's all. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Tgirl4real(f): 11:29am On Aug 23, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: ^^^^^ Yea, that's the spirit sis. Please note that all cannot present at once as drummaboy is suggesting. It will only make the entire thing rowdy. Furthermore, I personally didn't scrutinize speakers based on if they tithe or not. If that were to be the case, I will only give the person a topic that will not mention tithing. lol Bottom-line is, everyone cannot preach at the same time. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Alwaystrue(f): 11:35am On Aug 23, 2013 |
@Tgirl4real, No issues now. I am not bothered at all. Thanks. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Goshen360(m): 11:38am On Aug 23, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: @Goshen, no one dey fall your hand na. Afterall na your best judgement you use na, e no surprise me at all. I think I would have been more surprised if you added some of the names @Bidam mentioned o. You are just so predictable that's all. Alwaystrue: @Tgirl4real, |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Nobody: 11:57am On Aug 23, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: @Ihedinobi, for some strange reason, I could not watch the video so I could not get the meat of this discussion Try copying the link to Youtube itself. Sometimes, embedded videos seem to kind of expire or something. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by shdemidemi(m): 11:59am On Aug 23, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: ^^^^^ I am quite aghast at what you wrote there about 'shdemdemi' considering the fact that you never like to engage anyone that is not in agreement with you. I believe no one is an authority here hence we are all learning. if you think what I have said is wrong at any particular time or thread, you could have asked questions then and also show me through scriptures what i am missing. If I don't agree with you even after scriptural proof, I believe a statement like that which you have up there would then be expected. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Alwaystrue(f): 12:07pm On Aug 23, 2013 |
@Ihedinobi, Thanks. @shdemidemi, No need to be aghast. There is no point engaging you because when we bring out certain scriptures by Paul, you claim it is written to the jews and not the church. Should we start arguing? No need so we leave you. It is not a secret. Please spend time to prepare for your submission and may the Holy Spirit enable you more. |
Re: Women In Ministry - N T Wright by Nobody: 12:27pm On Aug 23, 2013 |
Alwaystrue: @Goshen, no one dey fall your hand na. Afterall na your best judgement you use na, e no surprise me at all. I think I would have been more surprised if you added some of the names @Bidam mentioned o. You are just so predictable that's all.No mind Gosh, i don't need to wear my prophetic mantle to know their intent and purpose na..Kun and drummaboy were a big revelation. God bless you sis,Wish you are one of the speakers though,You have a way of making scriptures come alive without lengthy exegesis. |
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