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|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by debosky(m): 10:29pm On Jun 02, 2008|
I still see no cogent reason/improvement that this base will achieve; Even if there are 'tremendous gains', those gains are readily available now WITHOUT any US base located on Nigerian soil. That is the crux of my own view - this talk of 'technological development' is a ruse or a pipe-dream at best. If after years of importing foreign equipment it has not made a difference, now suddenly allowing their military to be located on our land will? Ok IF the goverment ensures we get the best out of it and other hypothetical situations - what has CHANGED on the ground/administratively in Nigeria to believe that this 'benefit' will accrue to us from this?
We do not need significant military training that cannot be otherwise provided under existing channels. How much improved has Djibouti's military become because of the US presence there?
These are not excuses, but the so called 'benefits' are tangential at best to our national interests, a mere increase in training of soliders? Or fishing techniques? Why can that not happen without a military base on our soil? Training of soldiers? Did India and China get bases on their soil before they could competently train their soldiers? As others have mentioned, we are not a nation consistently at war, our military is, by African standards, one of the most professional and most equipped. If they are so interested in 'capacity building' then let them go to Liberia/Sierra Leone or Chad - those countries have more instability and military conflict requiring such assistance, but not Nigeria.
Military technology is highly guarded and protected by the Americans, the best they will do for you is make you more dependent on their tools, they won't transfer anything.
So now we need to bring soldiers to have a base to see what 'real' soldiers look like? Don't worry, even in Agenebode, they have watched 'Tour of Duty' and seen other american war movies, if you want to see 'real soldiers' turn on your TV set.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by bilymuse: 11:09pm On Jun 02, 2008|
can anybody tell me any good thing that has ever come out of the Nigeria army?
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by landis(m): 7:49am On Jun 03, 2008|
This has nothing to do with Nigerian Army but US and Yara-ill with their agenda.
If US really cares, they should establish universities, grant scholarship, IT villages.
They should give their companies taxe-holiday to come Nigeria.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Xiomarra: 8:00am On Jun 03, 2008|
I never knew Nigeria had an army.
What tribes make up this army? At least here in America, you see all shades of people in the US army. Are there any Ibos, Yorubas, Edos or Calabar people in the Nigerian army? Or is it made up of strictly "gworos" from the Rebuplic of Chad?
Well, let me start with an easier question then since the ones above may be too difficult as "JAMB" questions!
IS THERE ANYTHING GOOD THAT HAS EVER COME OUT OF THE NIGERIAN NONENTITY CONCEPT?
Okay, back at topic!
For example, here are a list of Military bases and installations located all over the country called the US. Where are the Nigerian military bases located please? I am truly ignorant of such matters and would like some education from enlightened "know it alls from Nigeria" on Nairaland!
This is a list of United States military bases currently located around the world.
Chai! E don tey when this US dey fight war. See all the bases and poo they have accquired all over the world including within the US? Lord have mercy on their enemies!
My point is that we need a real army base other than a shariaal based one in Nigeria since what we currently have in Nigeria masquerading under the name "army" is a mirage! All we have is a gestapo like arrangment located in the Northern part of Nigeria. . . established to hold the rest of Nigeria hostage as the history of Biafra shows. If Nigeria should ever need a military intervention, you all better bet your sweet arses that you southerners especially will be slaughtered like wild cattle. Since una no dey join army.
Only the presence of a US military base will help neutralize the evil that will befall the south if the so called "army" in Nigeria should embark on it's usual "rules of engagement"!
Based on tribalism and Shariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah of course!
Please, y'all should welcome the US military base in Nigeria. It will be very neutral to all tribes at least. . . .better than the British established!
See all the better countries with US bases in Nigeria. . . enjoying peace and tranquility?
E come be "kpangolo" Nigeria? Wetin una dey hide?
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by superman(m): 9:29am On Jun 03, 2008|
the above post is still flawed!!! mitigating absolutely no wahala
i think the so called tension neutralisation you are talking about will surely come from capacity,structural and intellectual development of Nigerian populance.
And for those of you who only sees light by selling your birth dumb a$$ right im afraid, its surely slavery monkie mentality, and i know when the going wasnt good for the japanise they didnt canvass for uncle tom your grand pa instead they stood and dugged it out
oh god can some of these jumbo-mobo analist in here picture the implications of their ineffective actualisations
KISS MY TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETH! NONSENSE just because you got your hands in the key board doesnt mean you understand the concept and the implication of things in line with nigeria development
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Xiomarra: 10:37am On Jun 03, 2008|
As usual. . . .thread derailment in progress!
Nigerian development? Hmmmm! Innna-res-ting! I wonder what that is.
Searching desperately in the "University of Wikepidia" for the constituents of the "Nigerian Army, or Navy". . . . . . . . . . .TO ABSOLUTELY NO AVAIL.
This was all I found.
Obviously we need help in more areas than one or two!
Interesting read I say!
Not knowing what to make out of all the jargon above!
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by SkyBlue1: 10:52am On Jun 03, 2008|
@Xiomara, sure the army leaves a lot to be desired and that in itself is such an understatement. However what is going to genuinely solve the problem, political will or an american base? By the way when i refer to political i am also adding the citizenry into that equation and with all the problems Nigeria has i am yet to see one that i feel cannot be solved with political will.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Xiomarra: 11:00am On Jun 03, 2008|
I say an American base. Only with the presence of one can we truly learn about "political will" from the masters of political will.
We are not capable of learning anything about political will by ourselves. Case in point. . . no country ever suffered from the presence of a US miltary base in it's midst. They have all gained in more ways than a hundred.
What does Nigeria have to lose if not cheap sentiments and a hollow national ego?
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by SkyBlue1: 11:17am On Jun 03, 2008|
@Xiomarra, but you make democratic politics sound needlessly complicated when in its essence it is actually basic and the very essence of democracy is a universal concept. There are also a lot of examples of countries that have blossomed not because they had US base in their country but because they wanted to develop and i am sure i don't need to give examples. I just still don't see the necessity of a base because what we should be concentrating on is awaking an actual non existent democracy in Nigeria whereby people and leaders think of the collective good as opposed to their own pockets only. Presidential democracy has worked in different countries but is not working in Nigeria why? Paliamentary system has worked in other countries, even communism is bringing development to some countries. You can force a horse to the stream but you can't force it to drink water. If the will is not there to change then you can surround Nigeria with American bases all you want but it would make no difference. In this day and age ignorance is not an excuse. You really think Nigeria is not progressing because they "dont know" about democracy or political will? It is not a complicated concept and the main power lies with the citizenry but i don't know what it will take for people to wake up. Doesn't democracy seem to be working in lagos? I know you people have called that state a lot but the fascination seems to be, "so it can work in Nigeria?" The will to change things.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Kobojunkie: 2:02pm On Jun 03, 2008|
The main crux of your problem with the idea, seems to be the supposed plan for an AFRICOM base in Nigeria. A couple of months ago, there were no plans for a base and I am not sure if that has changed. This is a deal and both sides get to lay down their own demands. I am not sure if you have, by now, perused the AFRICOM website but I believe on there, it is clear that this is not necessarily about “a base” but about about more. If and I say, If a base is what they want in exchange for other things, why make it about the base?
I will not go as far as to say that Democracy, in Nigeria is not viable. I believe it will take some time for people to come around; for people to understand that they are humans and do have the right to be treated like human beings and not like animals. How long? I do not know but it will happen. Moving things forward in the area of development and security will actually force people to start understanding that things have changed for the good.
I don’t believe the citizens understand what democracy is and how much power they have in their hands at this time. I believe that is one of the main problems. Ignorance is definitely not an excuse but we are an ignorant people. I don’t think what is happening in Lagos is necessarily democracy. I mean Fashola is doing a great job but he is, as of now, working to build the state of his own. what part have the people actually played in all that?? I would say democracy is working in Lagos as democracy worked in Nigeria while Buhari and idiaghon both had the seat.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by SkyBlue1: 2:26pm On Jun 03, 2008|
@Kobojunkie, LOL. That is where you are wrong my friend, after going on about this magical website through out yesterday, i visited it . This AFRICOM thing has been on the news lfor a while and yes at some point it is about the base. Just go through news headlines early this year and you will realise that the US was actually looking for host countries for AFRICOM bases. One last thing, maybe i misread your reply post but i never said democracy is not viable in Nigeria, i don't know where you got that from or wether you spelt something wrong.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Kobojunkie: 2:30pm On Jun 03, 2008|
I may have misread you. I took your post on Nigeria not progressing, and the lecture on what you think of democracy that followed to mean democracy may not be working
Actually, a couple of months ago, there were no plans for a base in Nigeria. We discussed this on length in here as well. I am quite sure of this as I remember reading Mbeki calling on African countries to reject the offer but there was some news article about that never having been part of the plan. I am not sure of what the headlines are in Nigeria at this time. The website is not meant to be magical in any way but direct source of information on the idea. AFRICOM is not majorly about a base which seems to be the main argument you keep coming back with, as of right now it continues to function even without the supposed future base in Nigeria. If a base is in the deal, and the benefits are a big plus, I continue to be for it.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by landis(m): 2:54pm On Jun 03, 2008|
You guys should learn to read between the lines.
”So, if there is a level of infrastructure available somewhere, it does not have to be in America, it could be any other country. But now the Americans have offered what they have been offering us but they have said ‘let us make it more administratively tidy‘ rather than getting this support from Europe.”
take each statement as below:
So, if there is a level of infrastructure available somewhere, it does not have to be in America, it could be any other country.
what is infrastructure here? simple Military Base or Baracks. And he said further it can be in any country.
But now the Americans have offered what they have been offering us
what has US being offering? Military Base/command/barracks in Africa.
but they have said ‘let us make it more administratively tidy‘ rather than getting this support from Europe.”
means: AFRICOM should not be in Europe but Nigeria. Since the subject here is a Nigeria foreigner Minister. He can only speak for Nigeria and not Ghana, Liberia or South Africa.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by SkyBlue1: 2:57pm On Jun 03, 2008|
@Kobojunkie, the rant about democracy was just to explain that we could try whatever form of government we want and we have tried about three, but nothing will work if there is no political will. It is ridiculously simple. How many posts on Nairaland have discussed different forms of government, or better forms for Nigeria? That whole democracy thing was addressed at Xiomarra because she seemed to suggest that the base will show us an example or something of the sort to learn from. Hence i stated that if we have not been able to learn or sort ourselves out especially in this day and age it is because there is no will to do so hence that "learning by example" will not work if there is continued unwillingness. We keep returning back to this base issue because that is what this thread is meant to address, isn't it? We are beginning to go round in circles a bit but just so we are clear. If there is a talk of a base you won't mind it and i don't see its necessity or significant benefits. Is that OK for a summary?
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Kobojunkie: 3:24pm On Jun 03, 2008|
I am cool!!!
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by superboi(m): 3:53pm On Jun 03, 2008|
it is sad that so persons in dis day and age will say sje/he did not know Nigeria has an army? we all had brodas&fathers who have served and died in the army,so it is very shameful of any Nigerian to make such a comment for the sake of debate. xiomarra the Nigerian in Nigeria army are not as tribalistic as you are dat i can assure and to think you are using wikipedia for your source of information shows how limited your knowledge on this issue is.you can support the USA base but please do not defame the Nigerian army.the Italians say he knows nothing know enough if he keeps quiet
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by SkyBlue1: 3:57pm On Jun 03, 2008|
@superboi, so is the Nigerian Army at present something to be proud off? You have never been had to part with your cash at a "check point"? Should you be mad at Xiomarra or at the situation?
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by superboi(m): 4:03pm On Jun 03, 2008|
is american army to somehing to be invited to the country after rapping little gals everywhere their based? my broda they are things am proud about in our army and there are things they can improve at.and soldier and police different oh!
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Kobojunkie: 4:08pm On Jun 03, 2008|
Some in the Nigerian military have been accused of exactly the same, both at home and abroad.
Is this really the line of argument you want to use against US military presence in Nigeria??
What next?? You have proof that the US Army laced all tomato cans with carcinogens and so we should not let them in??
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by SkyBlue1: 4:13pm On Jun 03, 2008|
@superboi, forget about US army for now and let us focus on the Nigerian Army. Without letting sentiments of possible past glories get in the way, what is there to be proud of about the Nigerian Army at present? Being objective, can you compare anything good with the sea of just simply unacceptabilities? Where does one begin?
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by superboi(m): 4:14pm On Jun 03, 2008|
kobojunkie am not using dat as an argument.its was a reply to some totally condeming the nigeria army.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Blatant: 4:16pm On Jun 03, 2008|
What exactly/specifically does Nigeria stand to gain from the presence of US military personnel in Nigeria? Is it wartime in Nigeria or what?
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by superboi(m): 4:21pm On Jun 03, 2008|
there are not of improvements in the nigerian army of recent, i served last year and lived in the barrack where i served but the media is in business and what is more likely to make news is that soldier kills kid in niger delta than soldiers get trainning to disobey unconstitutional orders or nigerian soldiers excel in un peace keeping mission
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by redsun(m): 5:16pm On Jun 03, 2008|
Armagedom,america is the mordern babylon,believing in old concept of war,destructions and conquest,all but mirage,they can't see.
If they spend a third of the money they spend on defense in seekig peace in the world,there will be peace.Agents of death,i wonder why?why can't the world change from old babaric and brutal ways to more civil ways?Must we fight?
Civilized man.,civilized monsters.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by SegzyJoe(m): 5:39pm On Jun 03, 2008|
The idea of US military base in Nigeria is certainly a topic that will generate a lot of controversy for many reasons than one.
1. Many Nigerians are oblivion of issues of International politics or strategic security issues
2. Foreign policy issues is elitist in nature meaning that the rationale behind a foreign policy decision may be very strange to the ordinary man on the street, and most often than not do not enjoy the popular support of majority of the citizens
3. Again, Foreign policy issues is always shrouded in secrecy because it is herculean task for any govt to provide acceptable explanation to the public without jeopardising votes in the next election
4 . Nigeria is predominantly xtian & Islam which means American base may not court the favour of a segment of the society giving their exploits in muslim countries etc
I can go on and on siting many more reasons why a topic like this will always generate controversy
NOW LET USE LOGIC HERE
FIVE REASONS TO REJECT US BASE:
1. Strategic: Can pose a security treat in the long run, especially if the two nations are traditional rivals or envious of each other
2. Can lead to interverence in the affairs of the host nation, especially if the in-coming president did not like the idea, the foreign troops may ensure emergence of president that will favours their cause
3. The host president may become a stoogy in the face of the most sophisticated army in the world
4. Intrusion of foreign culture can cause a sociological disharmony
5. The host country may suffer in silence as the foreign troops may become a burden rather than a blessing etc
FIVE REASONS TO ACCEPT US BASE:
1. Nigeria need US to secure a UN permanent seat at the security council, US is currently supporting Egpty, Nigeria can not afford it, Egpty holding that position will benefit Arabs more than Africa. Nigeria is the only hope of Africal in this millenium ( A loss to Egpty or South Africa will be a monumental loss)
2, US is the only surviving super power and can single handedly brings prosperity or poverty to any country, every nation that court with US get richer at their expense (Nigeria & US are not equal, so no need for any security palaba)
3. US can denied Nigeria a permanent seat at the UN, even if all the four others vote for Nigeria ( it has done it b4 to Butrous Ghali when he wanted to go for second term)
4. For strategic security in the Niger Delta, US base is not out of place
5. National Survival, you cannot be enemy of the US and survive in this more or less unipolar world etc
In International politics, there is no honour, no loyalty, no friends, the only permanet thing is "INTEREST" Every nation where US has its military base have tendencies to prosper and buoyant economy except a foolish country will host the US and still be poor.
Every nation is like a prostitute in the international system, with visionary leaders that knows how to balance and re-align interests a country can record monument success in little time like the South Koreas (with about 100,000 US troops) You can host the US today, get the UN Security Council seat, get better economic packages from US to build your economy, benefit from their expertise, climb on the shoulder and move on, the truth is US will not forever remain a Super Power, empire rises and falls. Tomorrow you can pass a law not to allow foreign troops on your land but you would ve been better off by then.
As I said earlier, this kind of wisdom is rare among Nigerian leaders, because the re not sincere and they come to power to exploits their poor masses. It will take a wise nation to benefit from US . America is a generous cowboy, if you play soft and cool headed with her, you can climb thru her to stardom and if you re foolish, you can dare her and bring collateral damage to yourself and your people like Saddam.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Tornadoz(m): 6:20pm On Jun 03, 2008|
We need the 5 permanent members not just the US. (Any of the permanent members could veto our becoming permanent members.)
2.US is the only surviving super power and can single handedly brings prosperity or poverty to any country,The US won't bring poverty to Nigeria because we refused them a military base. We need trade pacts not arms treaty.
3.US can denied Nigeria a permanent seat at the UN, even if all the four others vote for NigeriaAre you running out of reasons? (See your reason number 1)
4.For strategic security in the Niger Delta, US base is not out of placeSupposing the US decides to side with peoples of the Niger Delta? (Remember the Niger Delta peoples are the one's sitting on this black gold)
5.National Survival, you cannot be enemy of the US and survive in this more or less unipolar world etcAre you saying they will attack us if we refuse them a base?
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by superboi(m): 7:24pm On Jun 03, 2008|
(1)segzy there are alot of country where the usa have bases and majority the people remain poor. so that not an issue.(2) if you look at the country that have permanent seat at the un security council,they all got their wealth through hardwork and not through being member of that council. (3) we can still be the us friend without having their base here.
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Xiomarra: 7:29pm On Jun 03, 2008|
Because them never see toto before abi?
You are right!
Nothing to know about the Nigerian army just a bunch of Chadians with Yoruba and Calabar names for psychological 499!
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by Xiomarra: 7:30pm On Jun 03, 2008|
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by superboi(m): 7:49pm On Jun 03, 2008|
xiamorra well if a chadian is ready to join the nigerian army and die in the force he is nigerian,more so than you and your brodas that join the us army are american
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by superboi(m): 7:51pm On Jun 03, 2008|
people like you are the problem of nigeria,always concentrating on what divides us than what unites us
|Re: Nigeria Accepted US Army Barrack In Nigeria. by sleekp1: 8:00pm On Jun 03, 2008|
superboi:Don't get into any debate with that woman o. She's anti Nigerian to the core. Another thing is she's certified brain dead. Is no use arguing with her, it serves no purpose. Here is a woman who said 99% of Nigerians are silly yet spend 99% of her on-line time on Nigeria forum. I rest my case.
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