africaken:
if UAE can achieve this ,it is possible for most of us.we should turn this terrorism and insurgency conflicts to our advantage ,just like israel,colombia,pakistan have done

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oex3STqCtk8

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_puIvN6xXKo

From a Nigerian Perspective, i think we are gravitating towards the right path. Both from the last and this current administration, there has been a consensus that we can simply no longer depend on orders.

I just however don't see how a purely government driven defence initiative can work.

Henry120:


From a Nigerian Perspective, i think we are gravitating towards the right path. Both from the last and this current administration, there has been a consensus that we can simply no longer depend on orders.

I just however don't see how a purely government driven defence initiative can work.

Then perharps you should take a look at egypt. Also, take a look at france. Also, I am not sure, but Namibia might be an example. But Nigeria being a tribal and paranoid society, I don't see this working.

SANDF

The problem with the idea of indigenous weapons developpment in Nigeria is that for it to work, nigeria would need to employ people based on merit, not on tribe. And that is the one thing I don't see happening in nigeria.

patriot4:
Then perharps you should take a look at egypt. Also, take a look at france. Also, I am not sure, but Namibia might be an example. But Nigeria being a tribal and paranoid society, I don't see this working.

My point exactly. Our diversity although our strength is also part of our shortcoming. On a federal government level, even basic local government level, workers seem to have a lesse-affair attitude to doing things, however in the Private sector attitudes are different and more professional.

That's why i believe for this current administrations MIC to work, the Private sector has to be more involved, it is pivotal that they are included, and restriction relaxed, but better policed.

patriot4:
The problem with the idea of indigenous weapons developpment in Nigeria is that for it to work, nigeria would need to employ people based on merit, not on tribe. And that is the one thing I don't see happening in nigeria.

It simply has to be private sector driven, with the government providing the necessary frame work. A similar initiative to what we have in the Automative sector.

SAAF

Henry120:


It simply has to be private sector driven, with the government providing the necessary frame work. A similar initiative to what we have in the Automative sector.

Good idea.

Henry120:


It simply has to be private sector driven, with the government providing the necessary frame work. A similar initiative to what we have in the Automative sector.

another issue henry you have to think of is ,how you going to get those contracts face greedy politicians and general.just imagine how hard it is to deal with government when your in the private sector .now imagine your dealing with security.as we speak kenyan parliament wants to pass a bill,which will allow the military to procure in secret of parliament committee or the public .to this day we are still debating allowing private security to be armed even after several terrorist massacres,just because the police higher echelon don't want to loosed the lucrative protection contracts from the private sector

a uganda army BMP-2 with slatted,bar,caged armour in somalia

South-African RDRV

n elite unit from the UPDF Special Forces Command completed an arduous one year pre-mission counter-terrorism training program yesterday that was conducted by the US Navy Seals.

link http://www.redpepper.co.ug/uganda-us-special-forces-complete-joint-counter-terrorism-training/

africaken:
another issue henry you have to think of is ,how you going to get those contracts face greedy politicians and general.just imagine how hard it is to deal with government when your in the private sector .now imagine your dealing with security.as we speak kenyan parliament wants to pass a bill,which will allow the military to procure in secret of parliament committee or the public .to this day we are still debating allowing private security to be armed even after several terrorist massacres,just because the police higher echelon don't want to loosed the lucrative protection contracts from the private sector

I agree, corruption is a problem. However, with social media tools like twitter or Nairaland, we can expose our politicians and force them to do what is right.

The so called buying of "weapons in secret" has always been a conduit pipe for corruption, for us we can only hope that this Buhari government is different, and implements policies that would reduce corruption and are sustainable.

Henry120:


I agree, corruption is a problem. However, with social media tools like twitter or Nairaland, we can expose our politicians and force them to do what is right.

The so called buying of "weapons in secret" has always been a conduit pipe for corruption, for us we can only hope that this Buhari government is different, and implements policies that would reduce corruption and are sustainable.

It is extremely simplistic to blame every problem in the country on "corruption". That is what the illiterate villager does. Is the average human being likely to make make money move from point A to his pocket if nobody would go after him ? Yes absolutely. Human nature has been about amassing wealth since the beginning of the first civilisation. This is something which is common in every society, even those who keep aiming the spotlight at others. But I think it is not a very good idea to make it a refrain and blame everything on theft. You also have to consider the fact that Nigerians don't like each other and don't trust each other. You have to consider the fact that patriotism and good work is not rewarded nor encouraged in Nigeria. You have to consider the fact that most Nigerians are functionning illiterates. You have to consider the fact that taming your political opponent "corrupt" is a fast trck to power. So, back to the topic, what would you do if you were the president and the company from which you are buying the weapon asks for your discretion ? I also remember when Nigeria was trying to buy ICBMs and the technology from North korea, the problem was that the americans heard about it, and then the americans threatened Nigeria and the deal was off. And perharps you might remember the recent arms purchase deal which was almost scuttled when south africa heard about it. So let us try and not be too simplistic, secret in procurement have their raison d'être. It is too easy to rename them with the word "corruption".

patriot4:
. And perharps you might remember the recent arms purchase deal which was almost scuttled when south africa heard about it. So let us try and not be too simplistic, secret in procurement have their raison d'être. It is too easy to rename them with the word "corruption".

Far from it, I don't blame every problem on corruption. However, I like to say, corruption along with other consequences which may or may not be beyond our control constitutes so of the many shortcomings many of our countries face.

Senegales Police, MUNISMA mali.

Henry120:


From a Nigerian Perspective, i think we are gravitating towards the right path. Both from the last and this current administration, there has been a consensus that we can simply no longer depend on orders.

I just however don't see how a purely government driven defence initiative can work.

It will work like it did in South Africa with Armscor (Denel)

Sometimes it will cost you money, sometimes it will make you money - but in the end you will be getting products made specifically for Nigerian conditions

The only problem is following the correct project pipeline that allows for growth and the development of increasingly sophisticated projects while at the same time ensuring quality.

Example:

Project 1: Military Truck
Project 2: Monocoque MRAP based on Military Truck Chassis and engine
Project 3: APC based on MRAP hull but more sophisticated chassis and engins
Project 4: Wholly new vehical (like an IFV) based on lessons learnt from development of truck, MRAP and APC

Get ready to sit back and wait 20 years for something sophisticated to come out

africaken:
a uganda army BMP-1 with slatted,bar,caged armour in somalia

Its hideous!

Absolutely Love it!!

Good old BMP 1... The platform that made NATO sh1t their pants when it first came out

patches689:


It will work like it did in South Africa with Armscor (Denel)

Sometimes it will cost you money, sometimes it will make you money - but in the end you will be getting products made specifically for Nigerian conditions

The only problem is following the correct project pipeline that allows for growth and the development of increasingly sophisticated projects while at the same time ensuring quality.

Example:

Project 1: Military Truck
Project 2: Monocoque MRAP based on Military Truck Chassis and engine
Project 3: APC based on MRAP hull but more sophisticated chassis and engins
Project 4: Wholly new vehical (like an IFV) based on lessons learnt from development of truck, MRAP and APC

Get ready to sit back and wait 20 years for something sophisticated to come out

You're right.

I don't think it will take that long though. All arms of service already have ongoing projects that needs funding to complete.

And remember proforce also has an IFV/Tank in the works.

The army has already collaborated with proforce to mass produce igirigi, so I expect more collaborations with the private sector to speed up things.

Maybe from 5-10 years will be enough for something sophisticated like missile technology and a new riffle.

patches689:


Its hideous!

Absolutely Love it!!

Good old BMP 1... The platform that made NATO sh1t their pants when it first came out

sorry i mistakenly called it a BMP-1 while its a BMP-2 which i saw later the 30mm canon.this is a indigenous uganda armour upgrade ,question why can't we take this further

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6q27UjayZE

I sincerely don't understand the urge some south africans have to make it look like they aree "20 years ahead". With the right team, 2 years would be more than enough to start producing original indigenous technology. Now why a guy would say 20 years is beyond me. A PhD takes between 3 and 4 years after the masters degree. I don't see why making technological advancement would take longer than that. And here we are not even talking about technological advancement, all we are talking about are already existing weapons. The reason I gave for the infaisability is the lack of meritocracy in Nigeria and that would mean that qualified people might not get the job because of a quota systeme. Expect to see some functionning illitrates beat some hard working researchers to get the job. That is the sad reality of Nigeria.

africaken:
sorry i mistakenly called it a BMP-1 while its a BMP-2 which i saw later the 30mm canon.this is a indigenous uganda armour upgrade ,question why can't we take this further

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6q27UjayZE

Dont worry... i missed the 30mm cannon as well

This modernization of the BMP is an example of what should be the first step in the development of the Nigerian military industrial complex.

1. Take an existing platform
2. Select off-the-shelf upgrades
3. Modify upgrades for vehical
4. Install (manufacturing experience)

ta-da step one done.

stillchris:


You're right.

I don't think it will take that long though. All arms of service already have ongoing projects that needs funding to complete.

And remember proforce also has an IFV/Tank in the works.

The army has already collaborated with proforce to mass produce igirigi, so I expect more collaborations with the private sector to speed up things.

Maybe from 5-10 years will be enough for something sophisticated like missile technology and a new riffle.

5-10 years a rifle is very do able

Missile in that same period of time? Well, if you mean guided - I think that may be a bridge too far (unless you base it on an existing missile and upgrade/adapt it heavily).

But unguided? no problem.

patriot4:
I sincerely don't understand the urge some south africans have to make it look like they aree "20 years ahead". With the right team, 2 years would be more than enough to start producing original indigenous technology. Now why a guy would say 20 years is beyond me. A PhD takes between 3 and 4 years after the masters degree. I don't see why making technological advancement would take longer than that. And here we are not even talking about technological advancement, all we are talking about are already existing weapons. The reason I gave for the infaisability is the lack of meritocracy in Nigeria and that would mean that qualified people might not get the job because of a quota systeme. Expect to see some functionning illitrates beat some hard working researchers to get the job. That is the sad reality of Nigeria.

Well... with regards to quota systems, South Africa is in the same boat (unfortunately).

20 years because, well for example - we had allready built missiles before the A-darter, and the A-darter took 15 years to go from drawing board to production.

If you want to go from no experience to a working missile it will take longer.

Yes, IFV in under 20 years is very achievable, but for advanced weapons... probably about 20 years

patches689:


Well... with regards to quota systems, South Africa is in the same boat (unfortunately).

20 years because, well for example - we had allready built missiles before the A-darter, and the A-darter took 15 years to go from drawing board to production.

If you want to go from no experience to a working missile it will take longer.

Yes, IFV in under 20 years is very achievable, but for advanced weapons... probably about 20 years

No, the world of science doesn't work like that. Things that took 20 years in the past now take less time due to progress in science. What people learn in universities are not the same as what they used to learn 40 years ago. I repeat, 2 years is more than enough.

patches689, as for quota system, believe me, the Nigerian one is by far worse than that of south africa. You see there are some tribes which have a long history of education and have been contributing in that field very assiduously and very proudly, while some others have other values and don't cherish education that much. The system is so terrible that to get entrance into a university, locals from some parts of Nigeria need to score about 10 times more than locals from some other parts of Nigeria. That is what we call the federal system. It lets functionning illiterates get the job and refuses qualified people.

patriot4:
No, the world of science doesn't work like that. Things that took 20 years in the past now take less time due to progress in science. What people learn in universities are not the same as what they used to learn 40 years ago. I repeat, 2 years is more than enough.

You cannot compare open source information (such as stuff in journals and textbooks) to confidential information.

It took 15 years to develop the A-darter after South Africa had spent 20 years or so prior to that developing missiles.

It will take decades of R& and millions of dollars (closer to hundreds of millions) for Nigeria (or anyone else) to produce a guided missile from scratch

This is why very few nations in the world produce missiles - if it took 2 years, everyone would have domestic missiles.

patches689:


You cannot compare open source information (such as stuff in journals and textbooks) to confidential information.

It took 15 years to develop the A-darter after South Africa had spent 20 years or so prior to that developing missiles.

It will take decades of R& and millions of dollars (closer to hundreds of millions) for Nigeria (or anyone else) to produce a guided missile from scratch

This is why very few nations in the world produce missiles - if it took 2 years, everyone would have domestic missiles.

I disagree. Because of my knowledge of the world of research I believe that such would not take too long. As for the number of countries which produces missiles, I do not have that number, neither do you. It is my belief that this kind of enterprises would be kept secret. Besides don't expect countries like libya which are constantly under turmoil to have the time and investment for such projects which require real planning. The world is full of saboteurs (many of whom work for western countries to stop 3rd world countries from archieving too much developpmement), eg: the spies in iran who frequently kill iranian scientists. This is not a matter of textbooks or journals, this is a matter of scientific research. Scientific research is not about reading textbooks, it is about solving problems and building theories. If you place the right guys like what the germans and allies did in ww2 then you will get result. Remember Alan Turing. The germans didn't expect him or anybody to be able to crack their codes in that little span of time. But that is the magic of scientific research: the breakthroughs.

Remind me again why the CR-21 didnt become a thing?

Except the whole "no lefties" thing (which we also did with the NEOPAW)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJcGc9LS0ss

patriot4:
I disagree. Because of my knowledge of the world of research I believe that such would not take too long. As for the number of countries which produces missiles, I do not have that number, neither do you. It is my belief that this kind of enterprises would be kept secret. Besides don't expect countries like libya which are constantly under turmoil to have the time and investment for such projects which require real planning. The world is full of saboteurs (many of whom work for western countries to stop 3rd world countries from archieving too much developpmement), eg: the spies in iran who frequently kill iranian scientists. This is not a matter of textbooks or journals, this is a matter of scientific research. Scientific research is not about reading textbooks, it is about solving problems and building theories. If you place the right guys like what the germans and allies did in ww2 then you will get result. Remember Alan Turing. The germans didn't expect him or anybody to be able to crack their codes in that little span of time. But that is the magic of scientific research: the breakthroughs.

Dude, you're not making sense. Try to be more coherent if you know what you're talking about.

Unless you are modifying/developing on an existing technology, it takes years of R&, testing and a lot of funding to develop a sophisticated weapons tech like guided missiles, jets, Tanks etc..

Even the Chinese realized that. That's why they copy as much as they can to meet up.

Even at that it still takes years for them to develop.

If Nigeria is really serious about this development depending on how we want to develop (existing or from scratch), it will take from 5 years upwards before we start seeing results.

stillchris:


Dude, you're not making sense. Try to be more coherent if you know what you're talking about.

Unless you are modifying/developing on an existing technology, it takes years of R&, testing and a lot of funding to develop a sophisticated weapons tech like guided missiles, jets, Tanks etc..

Even the Chinese realized that. That's why they copy as much as they can to meet up.

Even at that it still takes years for them to develop.

If Nigeria is really serious about this development depending on how we want to develop (existing or from scratch), it will take from 5 years upwards before we start seeing results.

It is quite difficult to argue with one who engages a conversation by telling you that you are not making sense, it is even more difficult when the person doesn't actually poke at any holes in your write-up. Now I find it quite fraudulent to ascribe reasons to things like "china copying what it can". For your information, everybody is copying what it can. Even your much gloryfied usa spends most of its time copying france, russia, england and even china. I repeat my claim: with the right team and the right investment, I give it 2 years to reach the desired target and move on from there.

@stillchris, I would advise you to document yourself on how the germans and the allies archieved so much during the second world war. By the way, do you know that at the beginning of that war, germany was by far the most technologically advanced country in the world ?