bolaino: my agnosticism leans more towards theism. Cos I do not want to ultimately rule out the possibility that there might be a God, but on the other hand, there isn't enough to prove that there is a personal God, I'm against the personal God concept. Yeah, entities, like ghosts, aliens and any other being that isn't human. I believe these things exist. Call me ignorant if u may. But I believe strongly that they do exist.

As per the comment above, please expand on your current stance. I'm open to share mine as well if you are curious, but I have harped on it so many times so I think you may be aware. I'm particularly interested on whether you are more open to an impersonal God and why you believe in ghosts.

Boliano,

I like this your open way of talking... saying there might be a possibility, which you do not want to rule out... Meaning you are open for more discussion and exploration on this and I bet you shall find the light in Christ Jesus provided you are still open for talk and then know the truth.

To start this, please expand on your so claims (as agnosticism is a stance about the difference between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism ) as [url=https://www.nairaland.com/uyi%20iredia]Uyi Iredia[/url] pointed out.

bolaino, the ball is in your court.

Still waiting o ! I ain't doing BB plan, I'm on a capped data bundle and when it's off its likely days'll pass before I return. I would like this discourse to have started before then.

Uyi Iredia: Still waiting o ! I ain't doing BB plan, I'm on a capped data bundle and when it's off its likely days'll pass before I return. I would like this discourse to have started before then.

bros my sincerest apologies. I had a very hectic day. And I'm grateful for the thread, cos this is reaLly something that needs to be discussed.

Uyi Iredia:

As per the comment above, please expand on your current stance. I'm open to share mine as well if you are curious, but I have harped on it so many times so I think you may be aware. I'm particularly interested on whether you are more open to an impersonal God and why you believe in ghosts.

my good sire, I do not believe in the idea of a personal God, but the idea of an impersonal God appeals more to me. But I do not believe this God to be a be a spirit being, I see it more like a force. What I might call God is the creative energy/force, around us. It's not perfect though but those are my views about God.

I think it's foolhardy for any African not to believe in the paranormal, the supernatural quite exists. But many of my atheistic brethren do not agree with me. They believe that everything is just physical, the last time I created a topic about the supernatural, my good friends logic boy and muskeetoo, were making fun of me. But my stance on the supernatural is still affirmative. I believe in the supernatural. I believe in trances, visions dreams, etc. And I hope that as the thread progresses, we would have a lil bit of understanding about these phenomenons.

ledafaze: Boliano,

I like this your open way of talking... saying there might be a possibility, which you do not want to rule out... Meaning you are open for more discussion and exploration on this and I bet you shall find the light in Christ Jesus provided you are still open for talk and then know the truth.

To start this, please expand on your so claims (as agnosticism is a stance about the difference between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism ) as [url=https://www.nairaland.com/uyi%20iredia]Uyi Iredia[/url] pointed out.

lol, my good sire, I do not believe in the existence of jesus. If there's anything I'm sure about in this life, that should be it.

bolaino: bros my sincerest apologies. I had a very hectic day. And I'm grateful for the thread, cos this is reaLly something that needs to be discussed.

Okay. Other than misplacing 1k and a recharge card I had a good day, started some house repairs too.

bolaino: my good sire, I do not believe in the idea of a personal God, but the idea of an impersonal God appeals more to me. But I do not believe this God to be a be a spirit being, I see it more like a force. What I might call God is the creative energy/force, around us. It's not perfect though but those are my views about God.

I agree but I differ in that I think it could be personal, I don't think there is ENOUGH evidence for this. I recall using the term conscious, intelligent energy to define God. Presumably this force like spirits is immaterial, agreed ?

bolaino: I think it's foolhardy for any African not to believe in the paranormal, the supernatural quite exists.

To the extent there's a God sure. To extent dreams, OBE's (out of body events), clinical resurrection eg that Blackpool dude last year (can't recall the name) and even other stuff sure. But still I doubt the likes of UFO's, alien astronauts and necromancy. But I dislike your use of the term African, paranormal is known irrespective of race. But there are some stuff I believed which I now doubt (eg UFO's which my Dad told me and the fact that it was hyped even in Naija) inspite of accounts especially quite recently one by the late great Fela on UFO's. I think one should be skeptical of some not to fall victim of fraud as we know has occured.

bolaino: But many of my atheistic brethren do not agree with me. They believe that everything is just physical, the last time I created a topic about the supernatural, my good friends logic boy and muskeetoo, were making fun of me. But my stance on the supernatural is still affirmative. I believe in the supernatural. I believe in trances, visions dreams, etc. And I hope that as the thread progresses, we would have a lil bit of understanding about these phenomenons.

I personally have seen a trance whilst being a Christian. What paranormal experiences have you ?


It's clear now that agnostic deism best describes your stance. Trust me, just stating agnostic will make many assume you are an atheist and you clealy by your opening statements aren't. As I said, I toyed around that but currently deist.

Uyi Iredia:

I agree but I differ in that I think it could be personal, I don't think there is ENOUGH evidence for this. I recall using the term conscious, intelligent energy to define God. Presumably this force like spirits is immaterial, agreed ?



To the extent there's a God sure. To extent dreams, OBE's (out of body events), clinical resurrection eg that Blackpool dude last year (can't recall the name) and even other stuff sure. But still I doubt the likes of UFO's, alien astronauts and necromancy. But I dislike your use of the term African, paranormal is known irrespective of race. But there are some stuff I believed which I now doubt (eg UFO's which my Dad told me and the fact that it was hyped even in Naija) inspite of accounts especially quite recently one by the late great Fela on UFO's. I think one should be skeptical of some not to fall victim of fraud as we know has occured.




I personally have seen a trance whilst being a Christian. What paranormal experiences have you ?


It's clear now that agnostic deism best describes your stance. Trust me, just stating agnostic will make many assume you are an atheist and you clealy by your opening statements aren't. As I said, I toyed around that but currently deist.

well, I have seen, a shaman, put a black powdery substance on someone, (the substance was in a large quantity) and the shaman, was making incantations, and this black substance, gradually entered into the skin of the person it was placed on, every single tin entered, I couldn't hold myself back I had to stand up to inspect the bed and the floor to make sure it wasn't a trick, and I was laughed at. But the body of the person absorbed this black substance, saw it with my two eyes, it happened to somebody I went to see who was receiving treatment from a herbalist. I'm a man of science. But I have seen strange tins, tins that can not be explained by richard dawkins or logicboy, lol

bolaino: lol, my good sire, I do not believe in the existence of jesus. If there's anything I'm sure about in this life, that should be it.

why

bolaino: well, I have seen, a shaman, put a black powdery substance on someone, (the substance was in a large quantity) and the shaman, was making incantations, and this black substance, gradually entered into the skin of the person it was placed on, every single tin entered, I couldn't hold myself back I had to stand up to inspect the bed and the floor to make sure it wasn't a trick, and I was laughed at. But the body of the person absorbed this black substance, saw it with my two eyes, it happened to somebody I went to see who was receiving treatment from a herbalist. I'm a man of science. But I have seen strange tins, tins that can not be explained by richard dawkins or logicboy, lol

Okay. I'm supposing that is part why you believe in a God, if not, is there another reason ? I would like to hear it.

P.S: My MB is running low so if I stop replying it's because I'm out

Chibuebem: why

because sire, there is no proof for his existence, and the only book that talks about him is filled with contradictions, thus making the book not credible.

Uyi Iredia:

Okay. I'm supposing that is part why you believe in a God, if not, is there another reason ? I would like to hear it.

P.S: My MB is running low so if I stop replying it's because I'm out

weLl I do not believe in a God per se, but if I'm to believe in a God I would rather believe in a creative force, like I pointed out earlier.

PS. Eeyaa, that 1k when u lost, na u for add take run data plan oo, but no shakes, let's still continue the discuss.

bolaino: weLl I do not believe in a God per se, but if I'm to believe in a God I would rather believe in a creative force, like I pointed out earlier.

PS. Eeyaa, that 1k when u lost, na u for add take run data plan oo, but no shakes, let's still continue the discuss.

Okay. You started out sounding like musKeeto. Fashee the 1k. Life decided to throw me karma.

So what's keeping you unsure about a deity ? Or what do you think makes one feasible ? Since you ain't asking questions, answer mine.

Sorry to butt in.

Well, I am happy that you guys are assessing your beliefs.

However, remember that there are optical illusions and magic tricks. Uyi claims to have seen a trance and Bolaino claims to have seen a herbalist do some witchcraft/voodoo.


I remember seeing a man claim that he has put a spell on a wall and that no one could touch it. He randomly picked some people to try and touch the wall. Some ran to the wall trying to kick it and some tried to touch it. They were all repelled from the wall!!

Was the wall man doing magic? No, he was doing simple science. There were magnets in the wall and magnets on the people that ran to the wall. What do like poles of a magnet do? Repel each other.


Advanced science to the unwary is magic.

Logicboy03: Sorry to butt in.

Well, I am happy that you guys are assessing your beliefs.

However, remember that there are optical illusions and magic tricks. Uyi claims to have seen a trance and Bolaino claims to have seen a herbalist do some witchcraft/voodoo.


I remember seeing a man claim that he has put a spell on a wall and that no one could touch it. He randomly picked some people to try and touch the wall. Some ran to the wall trying to kick it and some tried to touch it. They were all repelled from the wall!!

Was the wall man doing magic? No, he was doing simple science. There were magnets in the wall and magnets on the people that ran to the wall. What do like poles of a magnet do? Repel each other.


Advanced science to the unwary is magic.

What sort of explanation is this? Nonsense!

Reyginus: What sort of explanation is this? Nonsense!

Logicboy03:

Meaning? What illogical sense!

Logicboy03:

If it helps you sleep better know that I know that my visual cortex nuerons must have been misfiring. That nicely explains the trance. bolaino must have been decieved by some kind of salt which is effervescent on exposure to air.

Logicboy03: Sorry to butt in.

Well, I am happy that you guys are assessing your beliefs.

However, remember that there are optical illusions and magic tricks. Uyi claims to have seen a trance and Bolaino claims to have seen a herbalist do some witchcraft/voodoo.


I remember seeing a man claim that he has put a spell on a wall and that no one could touch it. He randomly picked some people to try and touch the wall. Some ran to the wall trying to kick it and some tried to touch it. They were all repelled from the wall!!

Was the wall man doing magic? No, he was doing simple science. There were magnets in the wall and magnets on the people that ran to the wall. What do like poles of a magnet do? Repel each other.


Advanced science to the unwary is magic.

sire, u can not attribute great scientific feats to illiterates, and most of the voodoo witch doctors we have in africa are illiterates, so in which text book or school did they learn these complex scientific feats?

Uyi Iredia:

If it helps you sleep better know that I know that my visual cortex nuerons must have been misfiring. That nicely explains the trance. bolaino must have been decieved by some kind of salt which is effervescent on exposure to air.

lol, u know the funny thing about the new atheist movement, which logicboy is a proud member, they've turned out to become the very thing they started out fighting. They've become dogmatic, and they've closed their minds to any possibility of the supernatural existing. Logicboy won't agree but he has become dogmatic, any information he sees that doesn't conform to the walls of modern day science, he considers it absurd.

bolaino: sire, u can not attribute great scientific feats to illiterates, and most of the voodoo witch doctors we have in africa are illiterates, so in which text book or school did they learn these complex scientific feats?

Lol.....my great grandmother was an illiterate but she could grind tobacco better than malboro.

Local people and herbalist practice science too. Herbalists have experimented with some local plants. Did we need whites to tell us the importance of peppersoup for colds? Did we need white people to tell us the medicinal properties of mango treebarks and local bitters?

Logicboy03:

Lol.....my great grandmother was an illiterate but she could grind tobacco better than malboro.

Local people and herbalist practice science too. Herbalists have experimented with some local plants. Did we need whites to tell us the importance of peppersoup for colds? Did we need white people to tell us the medicinal properties of mango treebarks and local bitters?

lol, logicboy, stop jor, u know what I'm tryna say,

Logicboy03:

Lol.....my great grandmother was an illiterate but she could grind tobacco better than malboro.

Local people and herbalist practice science too. Herbalists have experimented with some local plants. Did we need whites to tell us the importance of peppersoup for colds? Did we need white people to tell us the medicinal properties of mango treebarks and local bitters?

We didn't need them to make ekeptionta (the box the talks) and ekeptionghe (the box you look at)_go figure

bolaino: lol, u know the funny thing about the new atheist movement, which logicboy is a proud member, they've turned out to become the very thing they started out fighting. They've become dogmatic, and they've closed their minds to any possibility of the supernatural existing. Logicboy won't agree but he has become dogmatic, any information he sees that doesn't conform to the walls of modern day science, he considers it absurd.

First of all, that is an accusation thatyou do not understand. To accuse the new atheist movement of closing their minds to any possibility of the supernatural is first stereotyping all new atheists and secondly, asking people to open their minds to an impossibility.



Look, anything that occurs in nature is natural. When there is hard evidence for the supernatural, I will believe.


You will not convince anyone of the supernatural with personal stories. Videos and stdies are welcome


Dont mistake well grounded disbelief and skepticism for dogmatism

Logicboy03: Sorry to butt in.

Well, I am happy that you guys are assessing your beliefs.

However, remember that there are optical illusions and magic tricks. Uyi claims to have seen a trance and Bolaino claims to have seen a herbalist do some witchcraft/voodoo.


I remember seeing a man claim that he has put a spell on a wall and that no one could touch it. He randomly picked some people to try and touch the wall. Some ran to the wall trying to kick it and some tried to touch it. They were all repelled from the wall!!

Was the wall man doing magic? No, he was doing simple science. There were magnets in the wall and magnets on the people that ran to the wall. What do like poles of a magnet do? Repel each other.


Advanced science to the unwary is magic.

WTF
What kind of words are these I read? LogicBoy this is a new low even for u. Seriously? U claim u saw the impossible sheet u just described above. So much for an embodiment of logic. SMH. Dude u needing laying on of hands. Maybe one of the christians here can recommend a good deliverance centre.
How the heck did u come up with the quoted. U either have been carrying that story around for a long time or u are exceptional gifted at concocting drivel.
1. How big could the magnets have been to be able to generate enough force to repel a full grown man?
2. How was the Illusionist able to put such a big and powerful magnet in people's body or clothing without them noticing?
3. If u did any science in school at all and if u listened and studied instead of smoking weed all through, u would have noticed that a magnet has two poles and that sometimes magnets reorient themselves to align opposing poles to each other to facilitate attraction. So it intead of repeling the people, the wall would most likely have attracted them.
4. Why didnt the wall attract other metals on the people's body if it was that powerful?
5. Why are u so dishonest?

Obviously real science isnt one of ur strong suits. Stick to reading "science" that promotes atheism and leave the real science to smart people. I dont know who is more funny; u or the person that liked that ur post.

PhenomenonVFX:

WTF
What kind of words are these I read? LogicBoy this is a new low even for u. Seriously? U claim u saw the impossible sheet u just described above. So much for an embodiment of logic. SMH. Dude u needing laying on of hands. Maybe one of the christians here can recommend a good deliverance centre.
How the heck did u come up with the quoted. U either have been carrying that story around for a long time or u are exceptional gifted at concocting drivel.
1. How big could the magnets have been to be able to generate enough force to repel a full grown man?
2. How was the Illusionist able to put such a big and powerful magnet in people's body or clothing without them noticing?
3. If u did any science in school at all and if u listened and studied instead of smoking weed all through, u would have noticed that a magnet has two poles and that sometimes magnets reorient themselves to align opposing poles to each other to facilitate attraction. So it intead of repeling the people, the wall would most likely have attracted them.
4. Why didnt the wall attract other metals on the people's body if it was that powerful?
5. Why are u so dishonest?

Obviously real science isnt one of ur strong suits. Stick to reading "science" that promotes atheism and leave the real science to smart people. I dont know who is more funny; u or the person that liked that ur post.

Now, you see how one has to question supernatural stories?


Now, if you were sensuble enough to properly read my comment, you would notice 3 things

1) the wall man magician picked the volunteers. The whole event was planned. It is a gimmick

2) the wall was a faux wall. It was a huge magnet painted as a wall

3) the volunteers were wearing some kind of magnetic bodysuits under their casual wear.




There might have been more science to it. But the basics are quite clear

==============


Edit


Furthermore, the wall was properly positioned away from people and only the volunteers went near........furthermore there are electro magnets that can be turned on and off. The volunteers could have had all their metallic stuff removed before the show

Uyi Iredia and bolaino, are you entertained?


See how a scientific event is easily explained to doubters like phenomenvfx?

Unlike your supernatural events that are based on faith

bolaino: lol, u know the funny thing about the new atheist movement, which logicboy is a proud member, they've turned out to become the very thing they started out fighting. They've become dogmatic, and they've closed their minds to any possibility of the supernatural existing. Logicboy won't agree but he has become dogmatic, any information he sees that doesn't conform to the walls of modern day science, he considers it absurd.

Agreed. Some atheists vocal against it note just that. I waswatching a certain TED video called 'Atheism 2.0'. Interesting tbh. But whether the speaker, Alaine admits or or not, in imbibing elements of religions, in particular, the need for a community built around the shared unbelief of atheism, they are in fact moving towards being the foe they condemn. There was a reason why I used the Smith-Neo argument against thehomer.

Uyi Iredia:

Agreed. Some atheists vocal against it note just that. I waswatching a certain TED video called 'Atheism 2.0'. Interesting tbh. But whether the speaker, Alaine admits or or not, in imbibing elements of religions, in particular, the need for a community built around the shared unbelief of atheism, they are in fact moving towards being the foe they condemn. There was a reason why I used the Smith-Neo argument against thehomer.

Nonsense. The only reason atheists need to gather around together and socialise is to find ways to stop religious crap. If 90% of the world were atheists, we wouldnt need atheist groups.

This is why i prefer joining humanist or freethinking groups rather than just an atheist group.
Humanists have a clear goal with or without religion.


Think about it. Many of us dont believe in Santa Clause or toothfairy but do we have a-santaist or a-toothfaryist groups challenging the belief in these mythical creatures that delude our children?