Please,I need a clarification on this,and a constructive contribution would suffice !! At what point did God create hell?

he didn't.

[size=14pt]At no point was hell created by GOD[/size]

From creation of Adam till when jesus come, lets see;


(1) As at the point When God created Adam, obviously there was not a place of torment called hell;

(Genesis 3:19) [size=14pt]“You will return to the ground,”[/size] God told Adam, [size=14pt]“for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”[/size]

Before his creation Adam did not exist; he was dust. And for his disobedience, or sin, Adam was sentenced to return to dust,

the psalmist David Inspired by Gods spirit to write, describe where the dead goes as 'place of silence'

(2) Psalm 115:17
It is not the dead who praise the LORD, [size=14pt]those who go down to the place of silence[/size];

in the realm of the dead, there is no knowledge,talkless of feeling pain

(3) Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,[size=14pt] for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.[/size]

and lastly,

when jesus comes, the dead in the graves will hear his voice, not dead in the hell, before separation!

(4)John 5:28-29

28 Do not marvel at this;[size=14pt] for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice[/size] 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

billtommy: Please,I need a clarification on this,and a constructive contribution would suffice !! At what point did God create hell?

Question u too, at what did God create Heaven?

BERNIMOORE:
[size=14pt]At no point was hell created by GOD[/size]

From creation of Adam till when jesus come, lets see;


(1) As at the point When God created Adam, obviously there was not a place of torment called hell;

(Genesis 3:19) [size=14pt]“You will return to the ground,”[/size] God told Adam, [size=14pt]“for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”[/size]

Before his creation Adam did not exist; he was dust. And for his disobedience, or sin, Adam was sentenced to return to dust,

the psalmist David Inspired by Gods spirit to write, describe where the dead goes as 'place of silence'

(2) Psalm 115:17
It is not the dead who praise the LORD, [size=14pt]those who go down to the place of silence[/size];

in the realm of the dead, there is no knowledge,talkless of feeling pain

(3) Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,[size=14pt] for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.[/size]

and lastly,

when jesus comes, the dead in the graves will hear his voice, not dead in the hell, before separation!

(4)John 5:28-29

28 Do not marvel at this;[size=14pt] for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice[/size] 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Dont u see that u err, u never quoted scriptures that vividly talk about Hell?
Pls kindly explain these scriptures; Matthew 25:41-46, Mark 9:43-48, Luke 16:19-31 amidst many other scriptures.

Pastor Olu T:

Dont u see that u err, u never quoted scriptures that vividly talk about Hell?
Pls kindly explain these scriptures; Matthew 25:41-46, Mark 9:43-48, Luke 16:19-31 amidst many other scriptures.

stay to the topic, [size=18pt]At what point[/size] did God create hell?

the thread is to identify WHEN HELL WAS CREATED. because it was not mentioned to be created in the bible

Hell created

There is no HELL.


Hell or Lake of Fire is a future event.

Matthew 25:41-46, metaphorial usage of torment, this can be seen from characters used 'sheep and goat' naked, thisty etc.

Mark 9:43-48, 'cut your hands' 'it is better to enter into kingdom of God lame than with both hands' common, you cant be sincere clossing your eyes on this metaphorial usages they are to stress points.


Luke 16:19-31, a parable! not a real encounter, the characters lazarus, cannot literally sit at anybody's heart

a drop of water will evaporate in such great flame,

again, metaphorial.


this takes us back to the question[b] at what point [/b]did God create hell?

Pastor Olu T:

Dont u see that u err, u never quoted scriptures that vividly talk about Hell?
Pls kindly explain these scriptures; Matthew 25:41-46, Mark 9:43-48, Luke 16:19-31 amidst many other scriptures.

stay to the topic, [size=18pt]At what point[/size] did God create hell?

the thread is to identify WHEN HELL WAS CREATED. because it was not mentioned to be created in the bible

Man created hell...shikena!

Beretta92: Man created hell...shikena!

thank you!

even the so called purgatory!

this is the imposition of purgatory torment(not created at any time by God) but by the Decree of Union drawn up by the Council of Florence italy

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

Purgatory (Lat., "purgare", to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching is a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

The faith of the Church concerning purgatory is clearly expressed in the Decree of Union drawn up by the Council of Florence (Mansi, t. XXXI, col. 1031), and in the decree of the Council of Trent which (Sess. XXV) defined:

"Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has from the Sacred Scriptures and the ancient tradition of the Fathers taught in Councils and very recently in this Ecumenical synod (Sess. VI, cap. Bleep; Sess. XXII cap.ii, iii) that there is a purgatory, and that the souls therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar; [/b]the Holy Synod enjoins on the Bishops that they diligently endeavor to have the sound doctrine of the Fathers in Councils regarding purgatory everywhere taught and preached, held and believed by the faithful" (Denzinger, "Enchiridon", 983).

[b]Further than this the definitions of the Church do not go, [size=14pt]but the tradition of the Fathers and the Schoolmen must be consulted to explain the teachings of the councils, and to make clear the belief and the practices of the faithful.[/size]

Are we clearling saying/agreed by the advertised hell was created by men/human beings and not God?
@d questionaire........creation of heaven was clear......Gen 1:1 says in the beginning, God created d heavens and earth.;;so we realy have more dan one heaven?preachers that have claimed to dream of heaven should answer this oooo

BERNIMOORE: Matthew 25:41-46, metaphorial usage of torment, this can be seen from characters used 'sheep and goat' naked, thisty etc.

Mark 9:43-48, 'cut your hands' 'it is better to enter into kingdom of God lame than with both hands' common, you cant be sincere clossing your eyes on this metaphorial usages they are to stress points.


Luke 16:19-31, a parable! not a real encounter, the characters lazarus, cannot literally sit at anybody's heart

a drop of water will evaporate in such great flame,

again, metaphorial.


this takes us back to the question[b] at what point [/b]did God create hell?

Ok I will stick to the question. You claimed Jesus uses figure of speech in driving home His points, n I will want to agree with u on that for now. But I have a question for u, if he uses allegory so what's the point He was trying to make, or what exactly did He mean with the fire, torments etc.
You said the story of Lazarus was not real, another question, so why put in real xters (Abraham, the prophets n Jesus inferred) in a story that ain't real?
Pls I will need answer to these as we discuss further.

frosbel: Hell created

There is no HELL.


Hell or Lake of Fire is a future event.

Frosbel my brother how are u doing? Why is it that u always try to ignore me, even when I greet u never respond?
The fact we dont agree on doctrines doesn't change the fact that we are brothers in Christ. Except u ain't in Christ?

and permit me to pair the question to two,a)and b)

Pastor Olu T:

(a) Ok I will stick to the question. You claimed Jesus uses figure of speech in driving home His points, n I will want to agree with u on that for now. But I have a question for u, if he uses allegory so what's the point He was trying to make, or what exactly did He mean with the fire, torments etc.

(b) You said the story of Lazarus was not real, another question, so why put in real xters (Abraham, the prophets n Jesus inferred) in a story that ain't real?
Pls I will need answer to these as we discuss further

.

lets start with (a)

Pastor Olu T:

(a) Ok I will stick to the question. You claimed Jesus uses figure of speech in driving home His points, n I will want to agree with u on that for now. But I have a question for u, if he uses allegory so what's the point He was trying to make, or what exactly did He mean with the fire, torments etc.

let us use the scrpture to answer this,

do you even know that 'hell' and 'lake of fire' are different?

if hell is such hot as you can imagine, very unconfortable, isn'nt it? and torments is said to take place there,

why would 'hell' as hot as it was, after it had delivered those dead in it, hell itself will be thrown into 'lake of fire' which is also hot?


read it below;

Revelation 20:12-14

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and[b] death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them[/b]: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14[size=14pt] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire[/size].


but, we have got a hint earlier about how God will deal with death itself that kills,

isaiah 25:8

[size=14pt]he will swallow up death permanently[/size]The sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from every face, and remove his people's disgrace from all the earth. Indeed, the LORD has announced it!


[size=14pt]if God will swallow up 'death' forever means 'hell' too beign thrown into lake of fire means it will be swallowed up![/size]

this shows us clearly that there was no literal place of torment, but rather a total removal of death.

again, hell as it is used;

[size=14pt]Hell - Hades - Sheol and the Lake of Fire[/size]

It's interesting the word "hell" is not mentioned in the Old Testament however the word "sheol" is mentioned 65 times (depending which Bible translation you use).

H7585
שׁאל שׁאול
she'ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

Sheol is simply the Earth, the ground beneath our feet. The grave. But it is more than that. It was a place that both evil and righteous appear to go.

Job 24:19; "Drought and heat consume the snow waters, So does Sheol those who have sinned.

Psa 9:17; The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.

Prov 23:14; You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

billtommy: Are we clearling saying/agreed by the advertised hell was created by men/human beings and not God?
@d questionaire........creation of heaven was clear......Gen 1:1 says in the beginning, God created d heavens and earth.;;so we realy have more dan one heaven?preachers that have claimed to dream of heaven should answer this oooo

are you saying that hell was situated in heaven? pls answer, im waiting!

If only Christians would study (from an Academic point of view) their Religion and Holy Bible with reference to actual historical records, they will see that Hell was a manufactured product of latter day Christians who exploited (still exploiting) the gullibility, fears and desperation of the masses for political and economic ends. Leave Faith out of it and try to find out the Truth about the Word of God and the Truth will set you Free

Really, I am not telling you to believe this or not, I know an Apostle that once told me that HELL is still in construction... That the location is precise but it is being widened everyday to take more projected people. Even thouth God does not want sould to perish there, Satan is also doing his own work and people will also "need" to go to hell.

According to him, some devices are also used in the construction to hang people with their instrument of destruction. He also said something that baffles me... He said that the temperature varies in hell... there are some places that are more hotter than some other but the least is still not bearable for a normal person..

Hell is just the grave. Man has corrupted the biblical meaning of that word to mean a place of fiery torment. This is a pagan teaching from ancient Babylon. If God had created a place of torment for sinners he would have told Adam and Eve. All he told Adam was that if he ate of the fruit he would die. What is death? The Bible explains. (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6) 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.
So how would you know if you were burning or not? God says the wages for our sins is death. (Romans 6:23) 23 For the wages sin pays is death,. . .
So again we see that word death. Not eternal torment. Mankind has taken symbolic scriptures and made them literal. Such as (Revelation 20:14-15) 14 And death and Ha'des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.
Now how can death and hades be thrown into anything? If Hades is hell, why would God throw it into itself? Hell and hades are just the grave. So this verse has more meaning if you understand that death and the grave are destroyed forever. That is what the lake of fire represents. Total destruction. Then Rev 21:4 makes more sense also because it says that death will be no more. No death, no graves. For more info go to www.watchtower.org

BERNIMOORE: and permit me to pair the question to two,a)and b)




.

lets start with (a)[/size]

let us use the scrpture to answer this,

do you even know that 'hell' and 'lake of fire' are different?

if hell is such hot as you can imagine, very unconfortable, isn'nt it? and torments is said to take place there,

why would 'hell' as hot as it was, after it had delivered those dead in it, hell itself will be thrown into 'lake of fire' which is also hot?


read it below;

Revelation 20:12-14

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and[b] death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them[/b]: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14[size=14pt] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.


but, we have got a hint earlier about how God will deal with death itself that kills,

isaiah 25:8

[size=14pt]he will swallow up death permanently[/size]The sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from every face, and remove his people's disgrace from all the earth. Indeed, the LORD has announced it!


[size=14pt]if God will swallow up 'death' forever means 'hell' too beign thrown into lake of fire means it will be swallowed up![/size]

this shows us clearly that there was no literal place of torment, but rather a total removal of death.

again, hell as it is used;

[size=14pt]Hell - Hades - Sheol and the Lake of Fire[/size]

It's interesting the word "hell" is not mentioned in the Old Testament however the word "sheol" is mentioned 65 times (depending which Bible translation you use).

H7585
שׁאל שׁאול
she'ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

Sheol is simply the Earth, the ground beneath our feet. The grave. But it is more than that. It was a place that both evil and righteous appear to go.

Job 24:19; "Drought and heat consume the snow waters, So does Sheol those who have sinned.

Psa 9:17; The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.

Prov 23:14; You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol.

This is so surprising, I asked a simple n u started quoting without saying anything about the scriptures I asked the question from?
The question again, what point was Jesus making with the allegory, and what did he mean by fire, torment etc in the said scripture?
Answer this then we move to the second.

Pastor Olu T:

This is so surprising, I asked a simple n u started quoting without saying anything about the scriptures I asked the question from?
The question again, what point was Jesus making with the allegory, and what did he mean by fire, torment etc in the said scripture?
Answer this then we move to the second.

as of the point jesus was making, he want believers to attain everlasting life, love virtues, hate vices that can deprive them of the glory of everlasting life

But as of the question about what he meant by fire,torment etc, sorry, im not jesus, the question you ask now is for him!, ok?, the tread is for you to tell us AT WHAT POINTHELL WAS CREATED,simple, all i know is the verses you quoted were metaphorial and i pointed them out and i have shown you!

you can create a thread for that anyway, i will join you! but on this thread....AT WHAT POINT DID GOD CREATE HELL, ANSWER!

.

Pastor Olu T:

The question again, what point was Jesus making with the allegory, and what did he mean by fire, torment etc in the said scripture?
Answer this then we move to the second.

think of the two witnesses in Revelation also, there preaching caused torment to the people on the earth.

Where those people tormented by the two witness in literal fire ?


Read from Revelation 11:3 to 10.

But see verses 3 and 10:

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (Revelation 11:3).

"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:10).
.................

How did this two prophet torment people that were alive ? Was it by fire ? No, but by their preaching befor they were killed.

Read it up.

So also the parable of Jesus about the rich man and lazarus is about the torment that the changed in favour for the common people that followed christ resulted in torment for the rich people(pherisees) due to the preaching of this followers of christ.

We know how they reacted to the preaching of stephen.

They blocked their ears and screamed and pelted him with stones (but stephen and other apostles were fevoured).

But their preaching tormented those pherisees, they made every effort to kill the followers of christ to avert the torment.

The fire for the rich man(pherisees) shows everlasting rejection for him and what he stands for = the permanent rejection of the Jewish religious system for the new system that christ brought.

Peace.

truthislight:

think of the two witnesses in Revelation also, there preaching caused torment to the people on the earth.

Where they in fire ?

Read from Revelation 11:3 to 10.

But see verses 3 and 10:

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (Revelation 11:3).

"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:10).
.................

How did this two prophet torment people that were alive ? Was it by fire ? No, but by their preaching befor they were killed.

Read it up.

So also the parable of Jesus about the rich man and lazarus is about the torment that the changed in favour for the common people that followed christ resulted in torment for the rich people(pherisees) due to the preaching of this followers of christ.

We know how they reacted to the preaching of stephen.

They blocked their ears and screamed and pelted him with stones (but stephen and other apostles were fevoured).

But their preaching tormented those pherisees, they made every effort to kill the followers of christ to avert the torment.

The fire for the rich man(pherisees) shows everlasting rejection for him and what he stands for = the permanent rejection of the Jewish religious system for the new system that christ brought.

Peace.

Nice summation, but this still do not answer the question. My question is in the context of the referenced scriptures, and not the generality of fire, torment etc? Ok let me make this easier, lets look at each point Jesus made in that scripturs n explain.

Pastor Olu T:

My question is in the context of the referenced scriptures, and not the generality of fire, torment etc? Ok let me make this easier, lets look at each point Jesus made in that scripturs n explain.

Did you understand what i posted at all ?

Read it well again, and slowly this time.

It was the preaching of the 'two witness' that was refered to as 'torment'.

truthislight:

think of the two witnesses in Revelation also, there preaching caused torment to the people on the earth.

Where those people tormented by the two witness in literal fire ?

Read from Revelation 11:3 to 10.

But see verses 3 and 10:

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." (Revelation 11:3).

"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:10).
.................

How did this two prophet torment people that were alive ? Was it by fire ? No, but by their preaching befor they were killed.

Read it up.

So also the parable of Jesus about the rich man and lazarus is about the torment that the changed in favour for the common people that followed christ resulted in torment for the rich people(pherisees) due to the preaching of this followers of christ.

We know how they reacted to the preaching of stephen.

They blocked their ears and screamed and pelted him with stones (but stephen and other apostles were fevoured).

But their preaching tormented those pherisees, they made every effort to kill the followers of christ to avert the torment.

The fire for the rich man(pherisees) shows everlasting rejection for him and what he stands for = the permanent rejection of the Jewish religious system for the new system that christ brought.

Peace.

billtommy: Please,I need a clarification on this,and a constructive contribution would suffice !! At what point did God create hell?

It is interesting to know how inquisitive you are. To the best of my knowledge there is no known account of when God created hell.

truthislight:

Did you understand what i posted at all ?

Read it well again, and slowly this time.

It was the preaching of the 'two witness' that was refered to as 'torment'.

No I dont understand what u posted in the context of the scripture we are considering, and I dont need to read it again for I already have. But I understand ur summation of torment in general.

You know, sometimes I read the Bible. Not because I want to learn anything, (cos really there's not much to learn from the book anyway) but to have a good laugh.

The idea of an imaginary monster who loves you so much but he is gonna fry your a$$ in hell fire if you don't love him back is one of those hilariously entertaining stuff you get from that book.

Can't stop laughing, really.

cyrexx: You know, sometimes I read the Bible. Not because I want to learn anything, (cos really there's not much to learn from the book anyway) but to have a good laugh.

The idea of an imaginary monster who loves you so much but he is gonna fry your a$$ in hell fire if you don't love him back is one of those hilariously entertaining stuff you get from that book.

Can't stop laughing, really.

While (OnNairaland)
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if (postAuthor == cyrexx)
Ctrl + Shift
End if
}


[s]I used a Do While cos I know there are times Im gonna read ur comments by mistake[/s].

ledafaze:

Do
{
if (postAuthor == cyrexx)
Ctrl + Shift
End if
}
While (OnNairaland)

I used a Do While cos I know there are time Im gonna read ur comments by mistake.

I feel bad when people begin to argue on things of eternal values. Do you need to go to hell before you know Hell exists? Look, the scriptures cannot be broken, it's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. While there's still room for mercy, grab it with your two hands lest you cry and pray when it's too late. Apostle Paul said, ..."knowing the terror of God, we persuade men...and our God is a consuming fire...Now is the day of salvation and ...how can you escape if you neglect this great salvation."