Q: Good day Sir. Your article “I Cannot Afford to be a Christians” (http://yesufu..com/2013_09_02_archive.html) has generated some controversies. Can we say from that article that you are asking Christians to no longer give a tithe of their income to their local churches?


A: No.


Q: So what were you trying to say, in summary, from that article?


A: That article is simply an evangelistic message to non-Christians to reconsider the gospel of Jesus again. I was saying in that article that salvation is fully paid for by God for all men and to partake of it we are called to believe in Christ; Only. Now, as an addendum to the whole discourse, I brought in the issue of tithing; showing that tithing is one example, among others, in which modern organized churches have succeeded in discrediting this free salvation of Jesus; giving the impression that one is not a good Christian except the individual pays a tithe of his income. My grouse is with the word “pay”.


Q: So you are saying that Christians must not be asked to pay tithe, although they could give their tithe?


A: Exactly.


Q: Is there is difference between the word pay and give?


A: Plenty. The word pay denotes fulfilling an obligation; or meeting a prescribed requirement; or attaining the demands of a law. The word give denotes free will: a freedom to do as one purposes in one heart. The Old Testament clearly shows that the law required the children of Israel to pay tithe to the Levithical order (Numbers 18:21). The New Testament does not teach anywhere that Christians must pay tithes and offering. The scriptures show clearly that giving in the New Testament is simply free will and not obligatory or by necessity (1 Corinthians 9:7).


Q: How then did the concept of paying tithes and giving offering come into the church?


A: It came from a wrong interpretation and application of biblical truths. Most Christians today, following Paul’s revelation, accept that the laws of Moses have been abolished in the New Testament (Hebrew 7:12, 2 Corinthians 3:7, Galatians 3:24-27); they agree that Christians are not to pay tithes according to Moses’ injunction but they insist that we must follow the example of Abraham, who is the father of our faith, when he gave a tenth of the war spoils to Melchizedek. They say that Melchizedek is a type of Christ and for Abraham to give tithes to Melchizedek, Jesus is Melchizedek and we should give tithes to Christ through the church he has ordained on earth.


Q: But that makes perfect sense. So what do you have against Abraham’s tithing and the call for Christians to imitate him by tithing too?


Please read the conclusion of this interview on this link: http://www.yesufu..com/2013_09_12_archive.html

1Timothy 6
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings

Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Image123:

1Timothy 6
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings

Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Good answer.

@drummaboy
Keep up the good work, we must not rest on our oars until all the tithe captives have been set free.

^Thanks Pastor Kun.

Following my interview on the radio, I got traffic to my blog and many people very willing to be taught the truth in God's word.

It has encouraged me so that I will be devoting my effort more to such people on the blog and only come to NL once in a while.

Image is right in the scripture he quoted: strife about words does no one any good and sometimes I think that is all the discourse here result to.

Cheers.

Lot of issues about tithe...really am not interested in persuading anyone to pay tithe,its ur personal problem btw u and God. but as for me there is always a repercussion if i dont pay my tithe after my monthly salary..i use to pay tithe, but any month i missed it, i always suffer for it...which am currently suffering for it because i didnt pay my july tithe..up til now my august salary hasnt been paid with no specific date of when am going to receive it, my phone was stolen(2nd time ever,the first was as a result of such too) healthwise,i cant even explain how am feeling.etc after asking for forgiveness, Paying my tithe will have to be the first thing after i collect my august takehome. I dnt want to type much,but i believe all things can be put into prayer and God wil reveal what you intends to know

Debeloved87: Lot of issues about tithe...really am not interested in persuading anyone to pay tithe,its ur personal problem btw u and God. but as for me there is always a repercussion if i dont pay my tithe after my monthly salary..i use to pay tithe, but any month i missed it, i always suffer for it...which am currently suffering for it because i didnt pay my july tithe..up til now my august salary hasnt been paid with no specific date of when am going to receive it, my phone was stolen(2nd time ever,the first was as a result of such too) healthwise,i cant even explain how am feeling.etc after asking for forgiveness, Paying my tithe will have to be the first thing after i collect my august takehome. I dnt want to type much,but i believe all things can be put into prayer and God wil reveal what you intends to know

Maybe you are under a curse for keeping parts of the obsolete Mosaic laws [Galatians 3:10/ 5:4] you shouldn't have started tithing in the first instance. . There are millions of brethen out there that would never pay tithes. Yet they remain blessed by God.

Pastor Kun:

Maybe you are under a curse for keeping parts of the obsolete Mosaic laws [Galatians 3:10/ 5:4] you shouldn't have started tithing in the first instance. . There are millions of brethen out there that would never pay tithes. Yet they remain blessed by God.

God does not deal with everybody the exact same way. What you might do as an hobby and get away with, a Saphira might do once and kick the bucket. Leave him alone with his Maker.

Image123:
God does not deal with everybody the exact same way. What you might do as an hobby and get away with, a Saphira might do once and kick the bucket. Leave him alone with his Maker.

bro Image123, we can NEVER have a Saphira & Ananias scenario under this dispensation because we're under grace otherwise a lot of the G.O's you see around who do worse than what Saphira did would have kicked more than bucket a long time ago.

I am sure this is not the first time Debeloved87 has lost something so why is this peculiar? because his mind has conditioned him to believe he's cursed if he doesn't tithe. My mum told me same story about having problems some years ago when she gave her tithe money to a friend in need.She said she suffered a dip in her business for 6 months because of it and i reminded her that despite her 'provoking Shiloh sacrifice' of Dec 2011, she was still fleeced of a large sum of money by a 'brother in Christ' she did a business with in 2012. Problems come and go irrespective of tithe so we should emancipate ourselves from this mental and mind slavery.

It's his decision to tithe and i wont deny him that and wont even condemn him but i reject the notion that a Child of God bought by the precious blood of Christ is under a curse for not giving 10%. Then what does Rom 8:32 mean when it mentions 'freely'?

i thought Sapphira was under this dispensation, Candour? It remains unto you accrding to yr faith. If a man believes he will be more blessed when he des something God does not frown at, i suggest that we do not discourage him.

Image123: i thought Sapphira was under this dispensation, Candour? It remains unto you accrding to yr faith. If a man believes he will be more blessed when he des something God does not frown at, i suggest that we do not discourage him.

you see my brother, if we have to expatiate on whether Sapphira was under this dispensation or not, we'll derail this thread. But suffice to say that the Church that began after Peter's message in Acts 2 was still very much steeped in the practice and observance of Mosaic law. See Peter's reference to Cornelius as a gentile with whom he should have no dealings, insistence on the laws of Moses in Acts 15 and Acts 21 with the attendant argument and other instances in Acts of the Apostles.

I'll agree with not discouraging Debeloved87 but i think it's unfair and cruel to see a fellow believer laboring and worrying under a belief that he's under a curse when we all can attest to the fact that Christ has delivered us from every curse of the law. There are a lot of literally poor Christians who are daily bombarded with the lie that God is punishing them because they didn't tithe from a loaf of bread they received as a gift from somebody. I didn't make up this last story. I know more than one family who have this belief.

I just try to let people know now that their 10% pleases God just like their 2% or 80%

Cheers brother

Are you saying part of the word of God is obsolete?...Well, what many people dont understand is what image123 has just said...whether the law is obsolete or not, God treated us with different reverence and we operate in a different spiritual level...as a beloved there are somethings Others may do them but i dare not do it if dont want to lose my God-given assignment..and i thank God for his grace,mercy and patience on me..and like i said before whether you tithe or not its ur personal issue btw u and God..thanks.

Debeloved87: Are you saying part of the word of God is obsolete?...Well, what many people dont understand is what image123 has just said...whether the law is obsolete or not, God treated us with different reverence and we operate in a different spiritual level...as a beloved there are somethings Others may do them but i dare not do it if dont want to lose my God-given assignment..and i thank God for his grace,mercy and patience on me..and like i said before whether you tithe or not its ur personal issue btw u and God..thanks.

Good for you then. I wish you the best in your decision

cheers bro

Candour:

you see my brother, if we have to expatiate on whether Sapphira was under this dispensation or not, we'll derail this thread. But suffice to say that the Church that began after Peter's message in Acts 2 was still very much steeped in the practice and observance of Mosaic law. See Peter's reference to Cornelius as a gentile with whom he should have no dealings, insistence on the laws of Moses in Acts 15 and Acts 21 with the attendant argument and other instances in Acts of the Apostles.

@Candour, how are you doing? You do not give us those your lovely topics again o? Why na?

On the above I need to call you out on this? Are you now saying even the books on Acts was steeped in the law? Hence the 'grace-filled' parts are now the letters of Paul? Because after Acts of the apostles, the letters of Paul take the cake of the rest of the NT.
The problem with those who keep looking at the letter of the law is the fact that we often forgot that even though Christ never abolished the law, He fulfilled it by giving us the truth of it...many of which we know by His words and works and revelation of the reality of the shadows.

One thing I know is that irrespective of whether we give in any form or not the life of a Christian is one of greater sacrifice and giving all especially of ones self first because that is when we will truly give 2 Corinthians 8:2-5.

That is why I get amused when tithe is obssesed over and making everything about tithe. Jesus already gave perfect interpretation on all forms of giving already. The truth is the context and balance of it. Cheers.

Alwaystrue:
@Candour, how are you doing? You do not give us those your lovely topics again o? Why na?

On the above I need to call you out on this? Are you now saying even the books on Acts was steeped in the law? Hence the 'grace-filled' parts are now the letters of Paul? Because after Acts of the apostles, the letters of Paul take the cake of the rest of the NT.
The problem with those who keep looking at the letter of the law is the fact that we often forgot that even though Christ never abolished the law, He fulfilled it by giving us the truth of it...many of which we know by His words and works and revelation of the reality of the shadows.

One thing I know is that irrespective of whether we give in any form or not the life of a Christian is one of greater sacrifice and giving all especially of ones self first because that is when we will truly give 2 Corinthians 8:2-5.

That is why I get amused when tithe is obssesed over and making everything about tithe. Jesus already gave perfect interpretation on all forms of giving already. The truth is the context and balance of it. Cheers.

my dear sister, pls forgive my laziness for not posting new topics. i call it laziness because it has no other name. I'll resume again as soon as i get my acts together. i'm doing very great by God's grace.

My sister, you'll agree with me that when the Holy Ghost came down on the believers and Peter's preaching led to the conversion of 3000 Jews(Note they were all Jews), they didn't just imbibe all doctrines of Grace at once.It couldn't have been more than some weeks after Pentecost that the Sapphira incident happened. Even Peter that preached to them had to be forced by God to go minister to Cornelius as Peter still showed his Mosaic side by referring to Cornelius as unclean gentile and this was the mindset of all the Jerusalem Church and that was in Chapter 10 which some bible historians put at about 10 years after the ascension. What happened to Sapphira and Ananias was exactly a type of what happened to Uzzah when he thought he could help God by steadying the Ark(2 Sam 6:5-9). My sister, they were still in the era of Sin and instant Judgement. I affirm that what happened to Sapphira CANNOT happen now because we are now fully operating under grace otherwise all those MOG that rub the name of God in mud would have been zapped.

Actually i no longer try to force people to adopt my 'not paying tithe' stance. It's their money and they are free to do as they like with it but i'll not stand by and watch a fellow Christian put under a mental and mind bondage when i fully know from the bible that it's the freewill and cheerful giving that God applauds today. Give 2% 10% 50% or even 99%, see it as a demonstration of your love, not as a requirement to be accepted before God.

You and i can't stop the tithe discourse because both sides of the argument get emotional since it has to do with money so we have to learn to live with it.

God bless you sister

Candour:

my dear sister, pls forgive my laziness for not posting new topics. i call it laziness because it has no other name. I'll resume again as soon as i get my acts together. i'm doing very great by God's grace.

My sister, you'll agree with me that when the Holy Ghost came down on the believers and Peter's preaching led to the conversion of 3000 Jews(Note they were all Jews), they didn't just imbibe all doctrines of Grace at once.It couldn't have been more than some weeks after Pentecost that the Sapphira incident happened. Even Peter that preached to them had to be forced by God to go minister to Cornelius as Peter still showed his Mosaic side by referring to Cornelius as unclean gentile and this was the mindset of all the Jerusalem Church and that was in Chapter 10 which some bible historians put at about 10 years after the ascension. What happened to Sapphira and Ananias was exactly a type of what happened to Uzzah when he thought he could help God by steadying the Ark(2 Sam 6:5-9). My sister, they were still in the era of Sin and instant Judgement. I affirm that what happened to Sapphira CANNOT happen now because we are now fully operating under grace otherwise all those MOG that rub the name of God in mud would have been zapped.

Actually i no longer try to force people to adopt my 'not paying tithe' stance. It's their money and they are free to do as they like with it but i'll not stand by and watch a fellow Christian put under a mental and mind bondage when i fully know from the bible that it's the freewill and cheerful giving that God applauds today. Give 2% 10% 50% or even 99%, see it as a demonstration of your love, not as a requirement to be accepted before God.

You and i can't stop the tithe discourse because both sides of the argument get emotional since it has to do with money so we have to learn to live with it.

God bless you sister

@Candour, oya so since I brought it to your notice, arrange yourself and repent.

Please read Acts 5:3-6 again. Peter never called down any curse or judgement on Ananais. Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit when He spoke and Ananais was struck down when Peter said He lied against God. So I do not understand what you mean by they were in the era of sin and instant judgement o implying our own dispensation is the era of grace! I hope you do not mean that as time goes on, the dispensations of grace increases than from the time of the early apostles? Sorry o, but I see that as strictly your opinion.
Even in the OT, people sinned but were given grace to repent as well Ez. 18:30-32. In the face of the fulness of the Holy Spirit anything can happen please, do not try to assert by saying it cannot happen. That is too absolute for you to say abeg. God has absolute knowledge on why Ananais and his wife were instantly judged and it happens now as well.

No one can force anyone to adopt his method. It is on this same NL someone I read his post that stopped tithing due to what he read here but later changed again due to the conviction he got and the case may be vice versa so its not about what we try to do but what God reveals and our state of release. As I said earlier, the message is truth of what the Word says and that is what I expected to be taught, people will still do what they purpose to do.

Ofcourse I know it is about emotions most times but God deals with faith. The just lives by faith.
Thanks for the time.

Alwaystrue:

@Candour, oya so since I brought it to your notice, arrange yourself and repent.

Please read Acts 5:3-6 again. Peter never called down any curse or judgement on Ananais. Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit when He spoke and Ananais was struck down when Peter said He lied against God. So I do not understand what you mean by they were in the era of sin and instant judgement o implying our own dispensation is the era of grace! I hope you do not mean that as time goes on, the dispensations of grace increases than from the time of the early apostles? Sorry o, but I see that as strictly your opinion.
Even in the OT, people sinned but were given grace to repent as well Ez. 18:30-32. In the face of the fulness of the Holy Spirit anything can happen please, do not try to assert by saying it cannot happen. That is too absolute for you to say abeg. God has absolute knowledge on why Ananais and his wife were instantly judged and it happens now as well.

No one can force anyone to adopt his method. It is on this same NL someone I read his post that stopped tithing due to what he read here but later changed again due to the conviction he got and the case may be vice versa so its not about what we try to do but what God reveals. As I said earlier, the message is truth of what the Word says and that is what I expected to be taught.

Ofcourse I know it is about emotions most times but God deals with faith. The just lives by faith.
Thanks for the time.

No wahala my sister, I'll repent.

My sister, Peter pronounced judgement o.Its very evident when he told Saphira that those who buried her husband would carry her out as well.Peter and the twelve were still observing the law at this period and its a claim I boldly make. This is the reason why even at the Jerusalem council at least 20 years after Pentecost in Acts 15, there was still an argument about circumcision and other laws of Moses.

Its not a case of grace increasing dear sister but a case of different economies. Granted we gentiles and Jews are now both under the same umbrella but when Peter stood up to preach on the day if Pentecost, he had only Isrealities in mind and rightly so because Isreal had to be saved before gentiles came in. When Isreal kept on rejecting, Paul was raised up to go to the gentiles and Isreal lost her unique status and have to now come in like every other gentile.

If God reveals tuthe to anybody,the person should go ahead.Nairaland is a public forum and everybody comes with their own 'revelations' without hindrance.Somebody said he stopped tithing and was cursed, I say my finances improved after I stopped so which is correct? There are others who came here and testified they were liberated from the legalism of tithing so you have your testimonies, I have mine. I trust my position on this issue is the truth of God's word and I trust God will surely enlighten us more.

My sister, thankGod for his grace. As long as insults don't fly around I'm willing to hear all opinions. We are all learning and we can't dictate how God passes Hus messages across.

Thanks a lot for hearing me out and God bless you plenty.

@ Candour,

What's up son of God? You doing alright? Why are you derailing this thread mehn? It's meant for question(s) and answer(s), if there will be any. So, stick to the purpose of the thread. However, lemme start by example,

@ Image123 and Alwaystrue,

Question: If any of you is employed and then later, your employer terminate your employment, do you still continue to receive wages or salary from the same organization that terminated your employment?

/\ /\ no wahala.I don shut up

I'm doing good bro.

Cheers

My sister dey very fiery, me likey to be like you wen i grow up.

Goshen360:
@ Image123 and Alwaystrue,

Question: If any of you is employed and then later, your employer terminate your employment, do you still continue to receive wages or salary from the same organization that terminated your employment?

It is drummaby that is under question and answer, not moi. What is the oin of this queston now, cn you be straightforward?

lemme give you the kind of answer that looks like your question.
IT DEPENDS ON THE AGREEMENT.

All other questions to mr D.

Image123:

It is drummaby that is under question and answer, not moi. What is the oin of this queston now, cn you be straightforward?

lemme give you the kind of answer that looks like your question.
IT DEPENDS ON THE AGREEMENT.

All other questions to mr D.

Voluntary staffs

Bidam: Voluntary staffs

Na so we see am oh. We are generatorous.

Image123:

It is drummaby that is under question and answer, not moi. What is the oin of this queston now, cn you be straightforward?

lemme give you the kind of answer that looks like your question.
IT DEPENDS ON THE AGREEMENT.

All other questions to mr D.

Bidam: Voluntary staffs

Image123:

Na so we see am oh. We are generatorous.

Okay, @ Image123, Alwaystrue & Bidam,

I was going to follow up with that first question, if you had answered it with this one:

The Levitical Priesthood was employed by God to do works in the temple, the temple destroyed and the Levitical abolished\terminated, do they still receive tithe or do they still continue to receive tithe after being abolished?

Goshen360: Okay, @ Image123, Alwaystrue & Bidam,

I was going to follow up with that first question, if you had answered it with this one:

The Levitical Priesthood was employed by God to do works in the temple, the temple destroyed and the Levitical abolished\terminated, do they still receive tithe or do they still continue to receive tithe after being abolished?

you're pushing your questions despite ehn? Why tie tithe to the temple when tithes were being received centuries before the temple was ever built? Has the service of God being abolished?

Image123:

you're pushing your questions despite ehn? Why tie tithe to the temple when tithes were being received centuries before the temple was ever built? Has the service of God being abolished?

Second attempt to dodge questions...

Okay, third question. Do you like to answer questions of tithe BEFORE the temple and BEFORE the Levitical Priesthood?

Goshen360:

Second attempt to dodge questions...

Okay, third question. Do you like to answer questions of tithe BEFORE the temple and BEFORE the Levitical Priesthood?

Question not clear. i answered your first two questions BTW.

Image123:

you're pushing your questions despite ehn? Why tie tithe to the temple when tithes were being received centuries before the temple was ever built? Has the service of God being abolished?

You are very correct Pagans had been tithing in babylon and Egypt centuries before the temple was built

Image123:

Question not clear. i answered your first two questions BTW.

You NEVER answered any of my question. The first was if you continue to receive wages after being terminated from a job. I was using the first question to paraphrase the second which was, does the levitical priesthood continue to receive tithe after being terminated and abolished?

This is a question and answer session. So I stick to that. Do you now want to answer question #1 and #2 or you want to answer questions on tithe BEFORE the temple or levitical priesthood?

Goshen360:

You NEVER answered any of my question. The first was if you continue to receive wages after being terminated from a job. I was using the first question to paraphrase the second which was, does the levitical priesthood continue to receive tithe after being terminated and abolished?

This is a question and answer session. So I stick to that. Do you now want to answer question #1 and #2 or you want to answer questions on tithe BEFORE the temple or levitical priesthood?

Thank God you're not of the other religion and i'm not in chains. This sounds like a terrosist obtaining answers from a captive.

i answered your first question "It depends on the agreement"

i answered your second question " Why tie tithes to the temple like they started together?"