Two people that I greatly respect hold the view that tithing has been totally abolished. One other that I respect just as much holds that it hasn't been. For me it's almost as much a question of allegiance and loyalty to my friends as it is a question of doctrinal correctness. You see, both sides have pretty strong arguments. And, in reality, both sides are right. Perhaps it took the stress on my loyalty to force me to really listen.

Under the Old Covenant, the emphasis was on carnal or "see-able" deeds and rituals. Everything had to be just so. Every sacrifice was examined thoroughly to ensure the absence of physical defects. Specific commands were given to govern very specific activities. As much as possible nothing was left to personal discretion (that's impossible, of course). The Old Covenant was all about what could be seen. Offerings and gifts were regulated as much as possible. Everything as much as possible was regulated. This is the law of the carnal commandment. That is what was taken out of the way by the Cross of Christ.

Under that Covenant, the Law demanded that the Temple and its ministry be kept by a specific percentage of the offerings of all those under that Covenant. Remember, it was all carnal, that is, see-able. A specific levy was laid upon all those who worshipped the God of Israel to maintain His Ministry. That levy was the tenth of one's wealth also called the tithe.

The tithe may have been borrowed from tradition that predated Moses. There is evidence that giving the tenth portion either to some earthly potentate or to the representative of a deity was an accepted norm. It did not begin with the Law of Moses. It seems arbitrary. Perhaps it could as easily have been the seventh or the twelvth as the tenth. We do not know. The tenth was simply the formula and the Law adopted it.

TBC

I think that any intensive research on the history of the tenth will find that the effort of Moses's Law was to show that it was Yah'weh that was deserving of that portion and that the other gods and the humans who demanded it were pretenders. That tradition of giving a portion to the mighty or the deliverer or the benefactor is still with us today.

We give to those to whom we feel beholden a portion of what we have gained under their protection or beneficence not because they have need but to show our gratitude and recognition that what we have really belongs ti them. That portion is today called the tax. There is hardly any government in today's world that does not charge it. Sometimes it is called the interest. That is charged on some largesse that one is given for a period to make some wealth for themselves out of.

This levy takes various forms but the principle is always the same. The one who benefits from another's generosity shows their gratitude by giving that other a share in the new wealth that resulted from that generosity. That is wherr the tithe comes from. Moses (edit start) probably (edit close) simply took a very old tradition that derived from basic human nature and the relationship between a Sovereign and their subject and made a law out of it with specific percentages.

Ok. But what about the New Covenant? What difference did the Cross of Christ make?

TBC

There are those who have gone so far as to say that the Death and Resurrection of our Lord Jesus put an end to any need to behave rightly in a "see-able" manner. Now we can fornicate, we can lie, we can cheat, we can do whatever because we need not follow the regulations in Moses's Law anymore. That is an easy position to destroy from the Scriptures. All adherents of it are necessarily blind to the Cross of Christ. It's not worth spending a lot of time on.

There is another position which is that while we are free from Moses's Law we have now been made naturally righteous so that we instinctively and automatically do right. This position is half right and half wrong. We have indeed been given a new Nature that is biased to righteousness, but we ourselves have a lot of learning to do to grow up into its instincts and reflexes. Scriptures make no bones about the fact that we must grow after we have been born anew, that we must learn to become like Christ. It is not automatic, it takes diligent schooling to get to the point where our first instinct is to do good and not evil. That is why Christianity was first called "the Way" - before ever we were called Christians, we were called followers of the Way.

Then there are those who believe that even if we have become Christians we are obliged to keep to every single tenet of Moses's Law. Some go as far as to carry on with the sacrifices of the Old Covenant. As far as they're concerned we ought to go back to the ways of the desert. If they had their way, five thousand year-old wears would be back in fashion and we would be running about hurling spears at one another and sacking and burning cities. Like the first group, their position is easy to destroy from the Scriptures and their theology utterly unweildy. Again it is a waste of valuable time treating with them. Anyone who persists in their error is a stubborn heretic. They're best left to carry on and learn by experience.

TBC

What did the Cross really accomplish? It removed the need for micro-management of people's lives. God moved into individual lives to begin to remold them into unique carriers of His Will. Any man who has come into Christ begins to lose the need to be told what to do every step of the way and be turned here and there. He begins to learn what God's Desire (note the singular noun, it's very deliberate) and how to find his own desires in it.

The Cross took us to the meaning, the point, the root of the laws of Moses. It tore off the veil that blinded us to the spiritual side of the Law. It told us that the Sabbath was not merely some day of the week, nor was the sacrifice merely some physically-perfect animal nor was the Temple of God merely an affair of stones and pearls. It insisted that there was more to all that stuff than literally met the eye and demanded that we deal with those deeper realities.

Christians do not need to shave their heads for a vow or observe times and seasons and feasts and holidays. But if there is some value for a given Christian or group of Christians in doing so they are not forbidden. Some things allowed in the Law are today anathema for the lack of need to continue in them. There is no need now for new sacrifices. Jesus of Nazareth was the Ultimate Sacrifice. Any more done now is in spite of Him and is therefore accursed. But not all things in the Law spite the Lord Christ. Some don't but are not at all essential.

While I don't really mean to go into what is essential and what is not, what is accursed abd what is not, it is important to know what a Christian must do with Moses today in order to know what to do with the ordinance of tithing.

Our Lord Jesus said that a teacher well-taught or established in the ways of the Kingdom will bring out of his storeroom treasures new and old (Matthew 13:52). The apostles and our Lord Himself all taught out of the books written under the Old Covenant. And our Lord Himself insisted that they spoke of Him. So it is not wise to cut the Old Testament out of your Bible. In the Old the New is found.

Every precept in the Old Covenant was a demonstration of some principle. It wasn't as important that one followed the formula exactly as it was that one understood the formula. When we look at the Old Covenant, our questions should be why not always how. God was using carnal things to explain deep spiritual things, that was why He did many rather inscrutable things. He would command that a man who picked sticks on the Sabbath be stoned to death but nothing was done to priests who attended to temple duties on the same Sabbath. Priests who presumptuously offered fire that God had not commanded died for their "zeal" but David was not hurt for eating holy bread meant only for the priests. Double standards? Or was God trying to get our attention?

TBC

What did the Cross really accomplish? It removed the need for micro-management of people's lives. God moved into individual lives to begin to remold them into unique carriers of His Will. Any man who has come into Christ begins to lose the need to be told what to do every step of the way and be turned here and there. He begins to learn what God's Desire (note the singular noun, it's very deliberate) and how to find his own desires in it.

The Cross took us to the meaning, the point, the root of the laws of Moses. It tore off the veil that blinded us to the spiritual side of the Law. It told us that the Sabbath was not merely some day of the week, nor was the sacrifice merely some physically-perfect animal nor was the Temple of God merely an affair of stones and pearls. It insisted that there was more to all that stuff than literally met the eye and demanded that we deal with those deeper realities.

Christians do not need to shave their heads for a vow or observe times and seasons and feasts and holidays. But if there is some value for a given Christian or group of Christians in doing so they are not forbidden. Some things allowed in the Law are today anathema for the lack of need to continue in them. There is no need now for new sacrifices. Jesus of Nazareth was the Ultimate Sacrifice. Any more done now is in spite of Him and is therefore accursed. But not all things in the Law spite the Lord Christ. Some don't but are not at all essential.

While I don't really mean to go into what is essential and what is not, what is accursed abd what is not, it is important to know what a Christian must do with Moses today in order to know what to do with the ordinance of tithing.

Our Lord Jesus said that a teacher well-taught or established in the ways of the Kingdom will bring out of his storeroom treasures new and old (Matthew 13:52). The apostles and our Lord Himself all taught out of the books written under the Old Covenant. And our Lord Himself insisted that they spoke of Him. So it is not wise to cut the Old Testament out of your Bible. In the Old the New is found.

Every precept in the Old Covenant was a demonstration of some principle. It wasn't as important that one followed the formula exactly as it was that one understood the formula. When we look at the Old Covenant, our questions should be why not always how. God was using carnal things to explain deep spiritual things, that was why He did many rather inscrutable things. He would command that a man who picked sticks on the Sabbath be stoned to death but nothing was done to priests who attended to temple duties on the same Sabbath. Priests who presumptuously offered fire that God had not commanded died for their "zeal" but David was not hurt for eating holy bread meant only for the priests. Double standards? Or was God trying to get our attention?

TBC

God could care less what percentage of one's new wealth a person gives to say thank you for His beneficence to them. What He cares about is that His beneficence does not terminate with any receiver. He built His world to run in cycles. At each new stop, what He first gave must increase in value and move on, not get hoarded.

That is His Way. God insists on increasing value and exchange of value. He hates what I call "holes" or "sinks", value-traps that break cycles. When someone has benefited another in some way, it is God's Will that they be replenished somehow. And the receiver must themselves give out too. No one person or group of persons may hoard value. That is accursed. It is how spiritual cancer cells are formed.

The spiritual principle of the tithe is this: nobody who serves spiritually may lack and no poor among the brethren must be neglected. The principle is not the percentage, it is the function.

TBC

Why write an epistle when u cn hit the nail on the head...?

My two friends are right that we are not obliged to give exactly ten percent of every new wealth we make. My other friend is right that we must set something aside in every new wealth we make to benefit those who serve us spiritually and the poor in our local assembly.

It is in Christian nature to do so. It is not merely some law that Christians need to follow to prove their worthiness in some way to God. It is just normal to Christ to ensure that those who have given their lives to the Ministry of the Word and to Prayer do not lack and that the poor in our midst do not go hungry.

If to that end we choose to give 65% of our income or 10% or 2% or 99%, that's entirely our problem. Everyone must give according to what they have and cheerfully. Any giver like Ananias and Sapphira is already under judgment.

Grace be with all God's children.

THE END

Stale gist abeg...tithing has been discussed to death with many giving their thoughts on tithes.

Bring something refreshing abeg.

What hasnt been said or debated about tithing? Mosaic Law? Abolished under new testament? God doesnt need your salary? Better to feed poor than tithe? You rob God if you dont tithe?


I am serious and not trolling.

Logicboy03: Stale gist abeg...tithing has been discussed to death with many giving their thoughts on tithes.

Bring something refreshing abeg.

What hasnt been said or debated about tithing? Mosaic Law? Abolished under new testament? God doesnt need your salary? Better to feed poor than tithe? You rob God if you dont tithe?


I am serious and not trolling.

A changed man?

Reyginus: A changed man?

More like a weakened man......my atheism has gotten me despised and bullied by many

Ihedinobi: God could care less what percentage of one's wealth a person gives of their new wealth to say thank you for His beneficence to them. What He cares about is that His beneficence does not terminate with any receiver. He built His world to run in cycles. At each new stop, what He first gave must increase in value and move on, not get hoarded.

That is His Way. God insists on increasing value and exchange of value. He hates what I call "holes" or "sinks", value-traps that break cycles. When someone has benefited another in some way, it is God's Will that they be replenished somehow. And the receiver must themselves give out too. No one person or group of persons may hoard value. That is accursed. It is how spiritual cancer cells are formed.

The spiritual principle of the tithe is this: nobody who serves spiritually may lack and no poor among the brethren must be neglected. The principle is not the percentage, it is the function.

TBC

Bro Ihedinobi, with this treatise you wrote, i believe it settles a lot of things. the bolded is what i take as the koko of the whole tithe discourse. God almighty wants us who are blessed and privileged with the material things of the world to cater for those who DO NOT HAVE. Be they clergy or laity. This is why Jesus Christ said what was written in Matt 25:35-40. I don't need to reproduce it here. We all can read it on our own.

whether 10%, 80% or 2%, give from your heart willingly and to cause a positive impact in your neighbor's life particularly those of the household of faith.

This isn't about winning an argument, Its about allowing God to work good in us and through us. It's about allowing our true liberty in Christ to show.

God bless you bro and i mean it from the bottom of my heart.

Logicboy03:


More like a weakened man......my atheism has gotten me despised and bullied by many

U sure it's the atheism?

Candour:

Bro Ihedinobi, with this treatise you wrote, i believe it settles a lot of things. the bolded is what i take as the koko of the whole tithe discourse. God almighty wants us who are blessed and privileged with the material things of the world to cater for those who DO NOT HAVE. Be they clergy or laity. This is why Jesus Christ said what was written in Matt 25:35-40. I don't need to reproduce it here. We all can read it on our own.

whether 10%, 80% or 2%, give from your heart willingly and to cause a positive impact in your neighbor's life particularly those of the household of faith.

This isn't about winning an argument, Its about allowing God to work good in us and through us. It's about allowing our true liberty in Christ to show.

God bless you bro and i mean it from the bottom of my heart.

Summary of this section.

aManFromMars:

U sure it's the atheism?

My attitude?

aManFromMars:


Summary of this section.

correct bro

cheers

Candour:

correct bro

cheers

Candour, which day you go invite me come Church?

Logicboy03:


More like a weakened man......my atheism has gotten me despised and bullied by many

Eya!

aManFromMars:
Candour, which day you go invite me come Church?

hmmm..... bro Muskeeto, you know the problem with inviting somebody like you to my church is that you already know the bible more than my pastor. Let me not invite you now u come turn my pastor to your follower.....wetin i go tell my God?

Candour:

hmmm..... bro Muskeeto, you know the problem with inviting somebody like you to my church is that you already know the bible more than my pastor. Let me not invite you now u come turn my pastor to your follower.....wetin i go tell my God?

Lmao... no be my fault o.. I've not been to my church here in India since Xmas 11. It's an Indian church. The pastor and everyone kept calling me for the first few months. A friend's finally convinced me to go this Sunday, at least to mend bridges.. I was quite close to the family. Only GOD know as I go use handle the situation on Sunday. Lie? Say the truth? They'd be depressed. I led most of the Africans here to that church.

aManFromMars:

Lmao... no be my fault o.. I've not been to my church here in India since Xmas 11. It's an Indian church. The pastor and everyone kept calling me for the first few months. A friend's finally convinced me to go this Sunday, at least to mend bridges.. I was quite close to the family. Only GOD know as I go use handle the situation on Sunday. Lie? Say the truth? They'd be depressed. I led most of the Africans here to that church.

@the bolded, then what went wrong? i read your deconversion story and feel i could understand the reason for your present stance but i still have questions.We've almost derailed this thread and i doubt Ihedinobi will be pleased with us. Maybe we could chat off Nairaland some other time if its ok by you.

Cheers bro

@Ihedinobi

I'm sure you know all the technical arguments: in OT "tithe" was never money (subject to one exception with 'penalty' and another for 'jollification'), the Mosaic tithe is gone with the Levitical system and the Temple etc, Abram's tithe was voluntary and not even from his own possession strictly; the NT has now replaced the OT etc etc.

Now let us focus on principle.

1. Abram's tithe: acknowledgment of the position of Melchizedek and show of gratitude for having been blessed especially by Melchizedek specifically.
2. The Mosaic/OT tithe: acknowledgment of God's provision (including celebration and personal enjoyment to the Lord with the tithe) and support for the priesthood quite broadly as well as support for the 'poorer' e.g. widows, orphans and aliens etc.

How do these 'principles' operate in the NT era ---- especially with the disappearance of the Levitical priesthood and system.

Well we have plenty of help:

First, Jesus Christ specifically dictated how to give to Him: give to the poor and needy! He said 'as long as you did it for one of these brothers of mine, you did it for Me.

Second, we see the example of the apostle Paul taking a collection to be given to the needy brethren in Jerusalem.

Third we see the apostle Paul teaching that 'ministers' should be supported; Jesus Christ taught the same thing of course.

Fourth, we see the apostle Paul teaching that people should not give out of compulsion but cheerfully as they purpose in their hearts.

Finally, we should bear in mind that in none of those NT examples was a percentage specified, dictated or even suggested. What amount to give is in each case simply left to the discretion of the giver. And specifically, none of the examples said a tithe should be given nor advocated any of the forms of tithing found in the OT.

Specifically, 2 Corinthians 9:6 - 7 (edit) is legitimately regarded by many people as indicative of NT "obligation"; give cheerfully as you purpose in your own heart.

What is more, in the New Testament, our hearts are renewed by the Holy Spirit and if we submit to the Holy Spirit we will be well guided in what to give, where to give and who to give to.

Now, none of these contradicts the principle underlying any of the forms of OT tithing. The difference is liberty; the difference is freedom. But even the freedom and liberty of a Christian is a captive ---- a captive of the Holy Spirit! That freedom is not to be abused resulting in stinginess; rather, the 'captivity' is to exercise the freedom/liberty in Christ-like manner --- which is the same thing as according to the leading of the Spirit, which is the same thing as according to the teachings and example of Christ specifically and also of the apostles.

None of these contradicts the principle underlying any of the OT forms of tithing; rather they bring them into fulness.

Some additional matter sare more "antagonistic" so I will make the points in a separate post.

Excellent piece Ihedinobi.

There is no way one will consider the arguments for and against tithing and not come to the conclusion in 2 Corinthians 9:7, just like Ihedinobi has: NO COMPULSION! Let every man be fully persuaded in himself.

However, I still remain a strong advocate of not tithing bc unlike what Ihedinobi told us: that God wills for there to be balance: no one is in want in church; today the scale is tilted all too much in favor of the clergy.

So that the principle of equality in church has eroded away: the poor is despised; the widows are suffering and the orphans are dying. On the other hand the Pastors are living in obscene wealth.

The current opposition against tithing is the workings of God in the body of Christ to restore the equality he desires in the church.

I hope those (names edited for the sake of peace) advocate of 'TITHE OR PERISH' shall not be disappointed with the conclusions of Ihedinobi here.

Pls find time to read my Q and A on tithing, on my blog: see my signature below.

DrummaBoy:


I hope Image 123, Bidam, Alwaystrue and the other advocate of 'TITHE OR PERISH' shall not be disappointed with the conclusions of Ihedinobi here.

Sometimes you talk as if you re deluded and need to see a psychiatrist.Are you well at all

Bidam: Sometimes you talk as if you re deluded and need to see a psychiatrist.Are you well at all

sheesh Bidam, even here? you disrespect Ihedinobi with this abuse and insult pls. If you feel offended he pointed @ you, pls tell him plainly. Ihe just did a wonderful piece that explains a lot of things. Pls let us not allow it turn into one of 'those threads'

Cheers

@Drummaboy, pls avoid the name calling pls. this thread should put to bed plenty of the issues that raise arguments among Christians on Nairaland.

let us not allow it degenerate

thanks

Now, a few of the somewhat more "antagonistic" points:

1. AFAIK, most people challenging the modern teaching of "tithing" do not argue that a knowledgeable person who chooses to "tithe" is not free to do so or necessarily should not do so.
2. The challenge is not to "tithing" per se but to the teaching of tithing ---- especially as an obligation for a Christian. The teaching is simply not true and cannot truly be supported biblically!
3. The teaching results in contradicting and undermining the teachings of Jesus Christ and of the apostles. Imagine a person who refuses to hand over his "tithe money" to a poor family whose child needs an operation because s/he "must" drop the "tithe" in "church"! Does that square with what Jesus and the apostles taught or stood for?
4. The teaching puts people in bondage of fear, makes them subjects of superstition and scared even of their own shadows! Imagine people saying that if they don't drop their tithe in a particular month, all kinds of bad things will likely happen to them!
5. (My most controversial perhaps): The teaching helps to advance the cause of satan. Many of the "churches" that are mushrooming and so-called 'wo/men of God' tack on to the teaching primarily for "business" reasons and to put it bluntly to line their own pockets by defrauding people!
6. The teaching spawns a lot of other related teachings that are clearly contrary to the teachings of Christ; e.g. the "sowing and reaping" or "give to get" teaching that is now rampant. I once saw live and direct in person with my own two eyes a, maybe the, leading Nigerian "GO" agree with an American huckster that "giving to the poor" is sowing on bad ground because "the anointing into which you sow determines the size of your harvest" --- corrupting a parabolic teaching of Jesus Christ.
7. The teaching of course also helps the cause of private jet "pastors" defrauding unwitting people that jets are necessary for "ministry"! Na so!

I can go on and on and on --- but you get the gist.

Our duty is to be honest with our handling of Scripture and not be scared that "people will not give voluntarily" etc etc.

Our duty is to trust the Lord who has given people renewed hearts to lead them and to cleanse their own volition such that voluntarily and out of gratitude they will be willing givers --- even if its out of their own meagre resources.

Even leaving out the hucksters and turning to people who "honestly" believe that tithing is still "necessary", part of the problem is the structural pattern(s) we have adopted --- e.g.building huge edifices and apparatuses that have to be maintained etc etc etc

Logicboy03:


More like a weakened man......my atheism has gotten me despised and bullied by many

My sincere condolences. You aren't the first and you won't be the last since people feel strongly on God to love and cherish. In any case, take things easy withe religionists and things should go easy, otherwise, expect opposition.

My brother Ihedinobi abeg no vex, i like to respond to some of ya comments. I'll be very brief.

Ihedinobi:
A specific levy was laid upon all those who worshipped the God of Israel to maintain His Ministry. That levy was the tenth of one's wealth also called the tithe.

The tithe goes beyond just maintaining the ministry. It was their inheritance.

Slight disagreement with the term "wealth", the levy was calculated based on a special formula (see Leviticus 27). Therefore not applicable to some form of earnings.

Candour: @Drummaboy, pls avoid the name calling pls. this thread should put to bed plenty of the issues that raise arguments among Christians on Nairaland.

let us not allow it degenerate

thanks

I will certainly not give Bidam the pleasure of trading words or name calling. It's not worth it.

Candour:

sheesh Bidam, even here? you disrespect Ihedinobi with this abuse and insult pls. If you feel offended he pointed @ you, pls tell him plainly. Ihe just did a wonderful piece that explains a lot of things. Pls let us not allow it turn into one of 'those threads'

Cheers

my bro..that guy is spiritualy sick,...this is not the first time he's attacking me and others.If others are mute.I will say my mind.He needs to conduct himself and behave properly.Even non Christians don't mess up like him jare.

aManFromMars:

Lmao... no be my fault o.. I've not been to my church here in India since Xmas 11. It's an Indian church. The pastor and everyone kept calling me for the first few months. A friend's finally convinced me to go this Sunday, at least to mend bridges.. I was quite close to the family. Only GOD know as I go use handle the situation on Sunday. Lie? Say the truth? They'd be depressed. I led most of the Africans here to that church.

Lol. Take am jeje. Now I wonder whether you are based in Jabalpur. This ya Indian tutelage has me curious since my Dad studied and made his wealth in India. That said, I quite regret not reading your deconversion story.