plaetton:

Old boy, na wa o.
You have no idea how difficult it has been for me stop laughing, compose my self, and rejoin this thread.

This is probably the funniest thread I have ever seen.
In an ironic way, I am beginning to respect this noblefada guy.
He deserves an award for something, anything.
Just give him an award.
Lmao!

Christian Tenacity Award!

noblefada: @All I've severally said the unbelievers should stop trying to explain the scriptures because they can't understand it! Just a simple course on "Now you're born again", which of course is what I've been discussing above, they're all acting confused. What if start going into deeper issues like: when it first rained on earth, or why we have continents today, or God plant the tree of the knowledge of good & evil in the garden or I start showing you the revelations of Jesus Christ from Genesis to Malachi, or we go into the mystery of the tower of babel and finally on the Pauline revelations, which Apostle Peter himself said it was hard to understand (2 Peter 3:15-18).
So pls give it up, you know next to nothing about through bible.

NB: Pls I apologies for any typo error, using a touch screen phone, which I dnt particularly like.

What's up with the name dropping? Paul, Malawi, Peter and such? I swear on my pink panties, you know what you're doing. You're doing it on purpose... Aaaaahh I refuse to take u seriously in Jesus name !!!!

Wise one. Continue to attack then. Never stop.

Mr Troll: lol. It didn't even take long for you to fall into your usual decoherence.
When stumped pull out the age old ad hominem: Why are you angry/worried/bothered about something that doesn't exist?

You forget that this is a public forum and as long as you keep making silly claims, we'll continue to attack them and expose your ignorance and dubiousness

noblefada is SPAG. . .He clearly does not even understand what he is saying. . .The problem is someone like italo does not agree with him on anything, but the two of them will still lay claim to this elusive holy spirit as the basis or inspiration for what ever they are saying. . Religion is truly a diseases. . .

Interesting thread. Reminds me of moments with obadiah before his reincarnation.

Are you born of God?

noblefada:
Its not heretical claim, its you that lack the understanding, let me show you from the scriptures in case you've never read it 1Jn 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

plaetton: I been and reminded today and many other times on this forum that I need to first believe before I can make sense of the scriptures.

The bold is very incorrect...no one needs to believe first before he or she can make sense of what is contained in Sacred scriptures. The key to understanding Sacred scriptures is the Holy Spirit and unless the Spirit guides and teaches, very little sense can be made of its contents.

No one can gag the Spirit of God. He reveals whatever he wants to whomever he chooses. If the Spirit chooses to reveal the truth inherent in Sacred scriptures to an unbeliever, then that is his choice. I am pretty sure Abram wasn't a 'believer' before God revealed himself to him.

plaetton:
It is has repeated over and over again by many Christians here that we should not try to use (human) sense to try to understand the Bible.

This is quite confusing, because it is hard to imagine how one can negate basic common sense and then still pretend to uunderstand something.
How does that work?

A number of teachings in Sacred scriptures can be understood and related with using common sense. That is why Ghandi didn't have any ish relating with and understanding Christ.

However, for some other parts of Sacred scriptures, it would require faith to make meaning of its contents; and this too requires the input of the Spirit.

plaetton:
If these Christians are serious and correct, are they not clearly saying that words written in the Bible are not worthy of being taken seriously, being discussed, or being preached on the streets?

To some extent the above is correct, but not entirely.

Just like Mazaje's logic says that Macro-evolution is not logical enough but logicboy's logic says the opposite.

Now, does that prove or disprove anything?

THINK...about it.

RationalDude: Italo's "Holy spirit" says that "spiri-koko" Christians are still prone to sin but........
Noblefada's "Holy spirit" says the exact opposite (although he backs it up with a bible verse, I'm sure that Italo will still counter with another verse from the same bible).

You can justify or condemn what you dont understand?

Mr Troll: its not a case of understanding. Its a case of justifying absurdity. You see, most christians when faced with an especially unjustifyable absurdity pull out the tired old mysteriousness card. They even go on to claim that it is not a logical book. Apparently they think logic is an evil concept that should not find roots in faith. Meanwhile, man is a rational being and it is only sensible that whatever you want to sell to him must make reasonable sense. And they wonder why others call them delusional. . . Funny enough they can confidently debunk muslims and their quran using. . . Logic.

italo: Are you born of God?

I don't know the amount of teaching you have, but one thing is for sure, the scriptures are the final authority, if you disagree, then do it with the scriptures!

@All again the same reason I don't like wasting my time, brought in my arguments gave scriptural references and backing, rather than they to challenge it with facts or superior arguments they resolve to name calling and gimmicks.
So @Mr troll and the rest the question again "Is it logical for an unbeliever to claim is knows and understand the bible"?

How is it illogical to believe what I experience daily? - The spiritual.

Mr Troll: As well as every other ridiculous religious books out there. . . The problem arises when they start the 'my religion is better than yours' nonsense, attempting to convince someone else using. . .Logic.

italo: Just like Mazaje's logic says that Macro-evolution is not logical enough but logicboy's logic says the opposite.

Now, does that prove or disprove anything?

THINK...about it.

Only that no atheist lays any claim to any holy spirit or any outside source for guidance. . .So you FAIL. . .You have a bible, lay claim to holy spirit which some of you believe is also a part of your god for guidance, explanation and revelation yet all we see is more confusion and lack of agreement on every single issue, you guys can not even tell the holy spirit to tell you if Jesus is god alone or also the son of god, that case has not been settled yet. . .

Dear friend, why do you refuse to answer the simple question: are you born of God?

Is it because you know that if you say yes, my next question would be: DO YOU SIN?

Now, that's the million dollar question you are scared of, isnt it.

noblefada:
I don't know the amount of teaching you have, but one thing is for sure, the scriptures are the final authority, if you disagree, then do it with the scriptures!

@All again the same reason I don't like wasting my time, brought in my arguments gave scriptural references and backing, rather than they to challenge it with facts or superior arguments they resolve to name calling and gimmicks.
So @Mr troll and the rest the question again "Is it logical for an unbeliever to claim is knows and understand the bible"?

Logically speaking, there is a chance that one of us is correct.

mazaje: noblefada is SPAG. . .He clearly does not even understand what he is saying. . .The problem is someone like italo does not agree with him on anything, but the two of them will still lay claim to this elusive holy spirit as the basis or inspiration for what ever they are saying. . Religion is truly a diseases. . .

italo: Logically speaking, there is a chance that one of us is correct.

Yup, and both of you can be wrong as well. . .

Differing views about a thing dont prove or disprove its existence.

For how many years shall we teach you that?

Is there anything in the world that everybody agree upon? No.

Does that mean that nothing is true? No.

mazaje:

Only that no atheist lays any claim to any holy spirit or any outside source for guidance. . .So you FAIL. . .You have a bible, lay claim to holy spirit which some of you believe is also a part of your god for guidance, explanation and revelation yet all we see is more confusion and lack of agreement on every single issue, you guys can not even tell the holy spirit to tell you if Jesus is god alone or also the son of god, that case has not been settled yet. . .

italo: You can justify or condemn what you dont understand?

Did you understand my post at all?

Let me spell it out. . . You are a believer, you read the bible, then you come across a passage that looks suspect. . . You try to justify it, but still it doesn't make sense but because you have already believed in your heart that every word there is true and infallible, you switch off your common sense and tell yourself that maybe you need a higher dose of holy spirit to understand it. . . You then ask a Man of God, he explains it in a convoluted way that leaves you more confused but you can't question him so you just swallow it all and tell yourself that you just have to believe and not question too much in order not to offend the Holy Spirit. . . Fast forward to NL and you come across atheists who put you to task about those passages you couldn't make sense of. What do you do? You tell them that they must believe first in order to understand it.

but we insist, since you understand it why not explain it to us, you say. . . The bible is not a logical book, its a spiritual book. Lol. Confused mofo's

Good. Good.

You admit one of us could be right. So our disagreement is not a reason to dismiss both our cases.

mazaje:

Yup, and both of you can be wrong as well. . .

italo: Good. Good.

You admit one of us could be right. So our disagreement is not a reason to dismiss both our cases.

It is since you are both claiming something that is abstract. . .Jesus, god etc are just based on an abstract story and both of you are just telling us about this abstract idea based on a certain line and way of reasoning. . .You can't show me Jesus at work anywhere, you can't show me the holy spirit in action any where, you can only point to stories and keep buling arguments based ONLY on stories , the highest you can do is make claims on what we dont know like claim god created the universe because we really do not know how the universe came about and other stuffs we don't know. . .God is just your default position for "I don't know". . .

.

These are you assumptions.

mazaje:

It is since you are both claiming something that is abstract. . .Jesus, god etc are just based on an abstract story and both of you are just telling us about this abstract idea based on a certain line and way of reasoning. . .You can show me Jesus at work anywhere, you can show me the holy spitit in action any where, you can only point to stories and keep buling arguments based ONLY on stories , the higest you can do is make claims on what we dont know like claim god created the universe because we really do not know how the universe came about and other stuffs we don't know. . .God is just your default position for "I don't know". . .

mazaje:

Only that no atheist lays any claim to any holy spirit or any outside source for guidance. . .So you FAIL. . .You have a bible, lay claim to holy spirit which some of you believe is also a part of your god for guidance, explanation and revelation yet all we see is more confusion and lack of agreement on every single issue, you guys can not even tell the holy spirit to tell you if Jesus is god alone or also the son of god, that case has not been settled yet. . .

LMAO!

italo: Differing views about a thing dont prove or disprove its existence.

For how many years shall we teach you that?

Is there anything in the world that everybody agree upon? No.

Does that mean that nothing is true? No.

Not if the thing in question is supposed to be holy spirit inspired and also is supposed to be understood with holy spirit guidance.

Are you saying that contradictory claims about what the Holy Spirit has inspired proves that there is no Holy Spirit?

Common man! If you're searching for truth, the least you can do is be honest with yourself.

...that is if you're searching for truth.

plaetton:

Not if the thing in question is supposed to be holy spirit inspired and also is supposed to be understood with holy spirit guidance.

italo: Are you saying that contradictory claims about what the Holy Spirit has inspired proves that there is no Holy Spirit?

Common man! If you're searching for truth, the least you can do is be honest with yourself.

...that is if you're searching for truth.

My points here are very simple.
1. You say that the bible was written or inspired by the holy spirit. Right?

2. You say that one also has to be guided by the holy spirit to understand it. Right?

3. Then, you and your holy spirit inspired comrades in christ make different claims about the same holy spirit inspired writings.

Therefore, something is wrong with either 1 or 2 or both.

Take your pick.

italo: Are you saying that contradictory claims about what the Holy Spirit has inspired proves that there is no Holy Spirit?

Common man! If you're searching for truth, the least you can do is be honest with yourself.

...that is if you're searching for truth.

Contradictory claims about the holy spirit as done by the christians shows it does not exist. . .Pls when will the holy spirit solve the trinity issue for christians?. . .

mazaje:

Contradictory claims about the holy spirit as done by the christians shows it does not exist. . .Pls when will the holy spirit solve the trinity issue for christians?. . .

Good question.

But It does appear that the holy spirit itself may have spit into two or more factions.

So it's deja vu all over again.

italo: Dear friend, why do you refuse to answer the simple question: are you born of God?

Is it because you know that if you say yes, my next question would be: DO YOU SIN?

Now, that's the million dollar question you are scared of, isnt it.

I'm a believer and I'm born of God, then as for the second question, people are only scared of what they don't understand! so when a believer sins, that sin did not originate from his Spirit, but rather from his soulish (mind realm), that's what that scriptures was talking about. I much as possible I tried not to, but as one in the flesh I'm not 100%, but I meditate more on Gal 5:16. Let me ask you a question, can the Holy Spirit commit sin?

plaetton:

My points here are very simple.
1. You say that the bible was written or inspired by the holy spirit. Right?

2. You say that one also has to be guided by the holy spirit to understand it. Right?

3. Then, you and your holy spirit inspired comrades in christ make different claims about the same holy spirit inspired writings.

Therefore, something is wrong with either 1 or 2 or both.

Take your pick.

Go and check, there has always been disagreements about the interpretation of scriptures, from the time of Jesus and the scribe to the early apostles, so it nothing new. But let me clarify the issue you have, the Holy Spirit is perfect, but the human vessel is not! so the disagreement in the understanding of scriptures in body of Christ rest solely on the human vessel because of the limitation of the flesh, that's why Paul said we know in part and prophesy in part, but when he shall come we shall know all things. Similar thing may apply in the law courts, the laws are there but judgement will only be based on how each attorney presents his case.

noblefada:
I'm a believer and I'm born of God, then as for the second question, people are only scared of what they don't understand! so when a believer sins, that sin did not originate from his Spirit, but rather from his soulish (mind realm), that's what that scriptures was talking about. I much as possible I tried not to, but as one in the flesh I'm not 100%, but I meditate more on Gal 5:16. Let me ask you a question, can the Holy Spirit commit sin?

Na wah ohhh. . .The way these guys go about confidently taking about nonsense is really mind boggling. . .

mazaje:

Contradictory claims about the holy spirit as done by the christians shows it does not exist. . .Pls when will the holy spirit solve the trinity issue for christians?. . .

There is no issue or controversy, the bible is not going to be re-written, so it is left for the believer to study and find out. 2Ti 2:15 KJV Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

noblefada:
Go and check, there has always been disagreements about the interpretation of scriptures, from the time of Jesus and the scribe to the early apostles, so it nothing new. But let me clarify the issue you have, the Holy Spirit is perfect, but the human vessel is not! so the disagreement in the understanding of scriptures in body of Christ rest solely on the human vessel because of the limitation of the flesh, that's why Paul said we know in part and prophesy in part, but when he shall come we shall know all things. Similar thing may apply in the law courts, the laws are there but judgement will only be based on how each attorney presents his case.

The bible encourages people to be perfect, it says that be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect, meaning that christians can attain perfection with the help of the holy spirit not?. . .