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Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches - Religion (10) - Nairaland

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Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 12:34pm On Oct 15, 2013
shachris:

Please can you show me a bible verse that justifies your claim that early CHRISTIANS, not people, paid tithe?
It's like you are new on this one ! Go and ask Christ embassy,candour,'pastor'kun,fr_evangel and Goshen 360 who searched all the scriptures to disprove a prove that Jesus collected tithe ! But i will take you also on this nevertheless and wait for them to join me on this one.All i will do is to bring to you my previous reply on this one so others can learn but not necessarily you !
SEE BELOW FOR UR DIGEST :

Have you heard of the word Theophany or Christophany ? If no,please see below meaning and scriptural backings :

''A Christophany is an appearance of the preincarnate Christ in the Old Testament, or after his ascension.-Web definition.
''A theophany is a manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period, often, but not always, in human form.
Some of the theophanies are found in these passages:

1. Genesis 12:7-9 – The Lord appeared to Abraham on his arrival in the land God had promised to him and his descendants.

2. Genesis 18:1-33 – One day, Abraham had some visitors: two angels and God Himself. He invited them to come to his home, and he and Sarah entertained them. - a Christophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.

3. Genesis 32:22-30 – Jacob wrestled with what appeared to be a man, but was actually God (vv. 28-30). This may also have been a Christophany.-Christ

4. Exodus 3:2 - 4:17 – God appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush, telling him exactly what He wanted him to do.-Theophany

5. Exodus 24:9-11 – God appeared to Moses with Aaron and his sons and the seventy elders.-Theophany

6. Deuteronomy 31:14-15 – God appeared to Moses and Joshua in the transfer of leadership to Joshua.

7. Job 38–42 – God answered Job out of the tempest and spoke at great length in answer to Job’s questions.-Theophany
8.Daniel 3:24-25 ''Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.''

Frequently, the term “glory of the Lord” reflects a theophany, as in Exodus 24:16-18; the “pillar of cloud” has a similar function in Exodus 33:9. A frequent introduction for theophanies may be seen in the words “the Lord came down,” as in Genesis 11:5; Exodus 34:5; Numbers 11:5; and 12:5.
Every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, where God took the form of a man to live among us as Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).

Having established the above facts,i think it is neccessary we proceed with Hebrews 7 that clearly shows how Christ received TITHE from Abraham and still doing so today !
But to discuss Hebrews,let us see Genesis 14:18-20
''And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High,brought Abram some bread and wine.Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing:“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,Creator of heaven and earth.And blessed be God Most High,who has defeated your enemies for you.”Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered.''

Who is Mechizedek ? We will know who this 'being' is when we get to Hebrews the new testament but keep in mind the meaning of Christophany!
Genesis 28:20-22 '' Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing,and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God.And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.”
From the above two scriptures,it has been established that Abraham who is the father of Christians also whom we MUST receive his blessings through Christ Jesus-tithed and his son Jacob tithed as well before the law ! The Law came after the exodus form Egypt and Abraham had already tithed to 'Melchizedek' before this time(640yrs before the law)And his son Jacob tithed 445yrs before the law and this brings us to the conclusion that tithing never started with the Law and what makes you think it ended with the Law !
Melchizedek,king of Salem and Salem later became Jerusalem,HE brought out wine and bread and blessed Abraham !-Genesis 14:18-22.
Who is the king of Salem(Jerusalem)that brought out bread and wine THE NIGHT BEFORE his DEATH ? Please don't conclude yet untill we get to Hebrew still keeping in mind what Christophany means !
The Law no doubt also commanded tithing but that does not mean that tithing started with the law-Leveticus 27:30-32''A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord.Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord.'' Please note that we are not discussing tithing as unto the law but want to show you that the law also commanded it but only as a shadow of what is to come !Note that Law was never brought about so that we will be under it for eternity but to show us a picture of what will be in the new testament.See Hebrews 10:1a'' For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things,''Remember that the slaying or blood sacrifice was never a bad thing becos it is LAW after all a blood sacrifice also occurred in the new testament-Jesus shedding HIS blood for you and i.So the sacrifices of animals in the OT was indeed a shadow of how to do it better in the NT !

Now let us see what Christ HIMSELF is saying concerning tithing:
Mathew 23:23''“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.''. He supported tithing immediately by saying yes you should tithe but HE rebuked them for not doing other important things contained in the book !-justice, mercy, and faith !
We all know who Jesus is,if he was not in support of tithing,HE would had condemned it right from Mathew 23:23 as HE did with so many other laws like stoning of the adulterous,divorce,Sabbath,paying of taxes,washing of hands before meal and so many others !
The issue of tithing was not discussed extensively in the new testament and i believe that it was not an issue no wonder there were no cases or issues raised concerning it much,but Hebrews gave us insights of what the pre-Law tithing was and what tithing should be as supported by Christ HIMSELF who receives all tithes !

Tithing as absolutely and positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New testament....

Reverting

God help us

1 Like

Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Alwaystrue(f): 12:43pm On Oct 15, 2013
shachris:

Please remember that people tithing are doing so for selfish reason, so that God would bless THEM abundantly, and are never concerned with the propagation of the good news of Christ. The pastors merely prey on your Greediness to milk you dry, just like a good con artist. Bring 10% and receive heaven and earth. lol.

I would give according to my richness in glory and blessing, as Jacob of old, and not get tied to a Mosaic covenant that my Savior Jesus abolished many centuries ago. tongue

I believe you are simply showing us how you were tithing if you ever did. From the ABUNDANCE of the HEART, THE MOUTH SPEAKS!
Many of those fighting tithing with all their breadth have in one post or the other admitted they were tithing before because of their wrong heart l(fear, expectations) just like gambling, forgetting that so many things go hand in hand in God's word.

Anything not done in love in ANY FORM of giving profits nothing. I Cor. 13 says same even if you offer your body without love, it is useless. Seeeee....

And that is why it did not profit them for they did it with the wrong heart.

Thanks for finally showing us why it has always been the wrong heart and it is the same heart of hatred, anger, abuse, scorn, unbelief that has been on display still all this while on this thread.

As you see I have not mentioned pastor here, I simply showed scriptures and word of God.

Thanks alot for reemphasing your post. This simply seals it all. May we truly offer ourselves first to God and renew our heart then we will give with proper understanding.
Peace.
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 12:45pm On Oct 15, 2013
shachris:

Please remember that people tithing are doing so for selfish reason, so that God would bless THEM abundantly, and are never concerned with the propagation of the good news of Christ.
It means you do not understand what tithing is ! Before the Law,men tithed becos they have been blessed by God ! In the days of Law,Men tithed becos it was a Law, a command by God. After the Law,some continued to tithe by the Law,some others tithed as a principle until Hebrews brought us all back to the knowledge regarding how God expect's us to tithe !(out of Love,willingly and a heart thing for trusting & believing God) If we tithe to curry some blessings,we have not sin ! If we tithe becos we believe it's a command,we hav not sin as well ! And if We tithe Just to show appreciation to God for what HE has done for us,how have we sin therein ? How about my having the knowledge to tithe for the furtherance of the gospel,will i go to hell for doing that ? Christ want's our tithe as HE want's us to show love to the poor,widows and the less privileges generally !

God help us
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by SUN84: 12:48pm On Oct 15, 2013
Why is many so much conciouse of tithe,is dt a way to worship God,wt necessity does it ve in life of believe,
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 12:50pm On Oct 15, 2013
shachris:


I would give according to my richness in glory and blessing, as Jacob of old, and not get tied to a Mosaic covenant that my Savior Jesus abolished many centuries ago. tongue

Why not say[b] i would tithe[/b] according to my riches in glory and blessing as Jacob of old tithed(Genesis 28:20-22) and not get tied to a mosaic covenant that my saviour Jesus abolished many centuries ago wink Jesus took us back to the very beginning regarding how we should tithe ! He does not want to us to be tied to the levetical patterns of tithing which many still hold or think today just like you shachris ! Jesus want's us to tithe just like Abraham and Jacob did !

God help us
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 12:52pm On Oct 15, 2013
SUN 84: Why is many so much conciouse of tithe,is dt a way to worship God,wt necessity does it ve in life of believe,
If i understand what you are trying to ask,then the answer should be we want to praise God in all,with all and for all HE has given to us ! To stop tithing will mean to stop saying Jesus i thank you !

God help us
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 12:59pm On Oct 15, 2013
Still for you Shachris if you read the opener !

Tithing Absolutely and Positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New testament !

Hebrews 7:1-18
''This Melchizedek was king of the city of Salem and also a priest of God Most High. When Abraham was returning home after winning a great battle against the kings, Melchizedek met him and blessed him.Then Abraham took a tenth of all he had captured in battle and gave it to Melchizedek. The name Melchizedek means “king of justice,” and king of Salem means “king of peace.” There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors—no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.
Consider then how great this Melchizedek was. Even Abraham, the great patriarch of Israel, recognized this by giving him a tenth of what he had taken in battle. Now the law of Moses required that the priests, who are descendants of Levi, must collect a tithe from the rest of the people of Israel, who are also descendants of Abraham. But Melchizedek, who was not a descendant of Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham. And Melchizedek placed a blessing upon Abraham, the one who had already received the promises of God. And without question, the person who has the power to give a blessing is greater than the one who is blessed.
The priests who collect tithes are men who die, so Melchizedek is greater than they are, because we are told that he lives on. In addition, we might even say that these Levites—the ones who collect the tithe—paid a tithe to Melchizedek when their ancestor Abraham paid a tithe to him. For although Levi wasn’t born yet, the seed from which he came was in Abraham’s body when Melchizedek collected the tithe from him.
So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron?
And if the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it. For the priest we are talking about belongs to a different tribe, whose members have never served at the altar as priests.What I mean is, our Lord came from the tribe of Judah, and Moses never mentioned priests coming from that tribe.
This change has been made very clear since a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has appeared. Jesus became a priest, not by meeting the physical requirement of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but by the power of a life that cannot be destroyed. And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied,“You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”
Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless. For the law never made anything perfect. But now we have confidence in a better hope, through which we draw near to God.''

I intentionally gave the whole of Hebrews 7 for us to see for ourselves what the writer of Hebrew is saying concerning Christ keeping in mind what Christophany means ! Remember,Melchizedek never appeared any where in the bible untill Genesis 14:18-20 and immediately after that HE went into thin air until Hebrew brought us to the proper understanding of who this BEING melchizedek truly is :
Melchizedek was referred to as ''KING OF JUSTICE''- I don't know any other person who is king of Justice other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was refered to as ''KING OF PEACE''- I don't know any other person who is king of Peace other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to be one without BEGINNING AND END-I don't know any other person who is without BEGINNING AND END other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to be one who is a ''PRIEST FOREVER'' -i don't know any other who is a priest forever other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to have no father or mother !- JESUS(no let Mary and Joseph deceive you o )
Melchizedek's greatness was recognized by Abraham the father of all with the promise !
Melchizedek' was not according to the law to receive tithe becos HE is neither from levetical or Aronic order yet HE received tithe. Remember Jesus lineage wasn't expected to be king untill the prophesy came and it happened !
Melchizedek blesses Abraham,one who has already received the promise of the blessing of God !
Pastors (priests i.e levetical or Aronic)will all die but Melchizedek lives forever !
Hebrew said Melchizedek resembles the son of God ! (You remember when King of Babylon said that the fourth man in the fire resembles the son of God)
Melchizedek is the King of Salem(Jerusalem) Who was refered to as the King of Jerusalem other than Jesus !
Melchizedek brought out bread and wine and blessed him. Who blessed wine and broke bread and shared to HIS disciples the night to HIS death ? JESUS !
The law which was only a shadow of what is to come has changed according to Hebrews 10:1 and what we do today as tithing was same as done by Abraham without the law ! Tithing never started with the law and can not end with the law. Abraham tithed from his heart to Jesus and not under compulsion becos there was no Law as at the time he tithed !
Jesus is our most high priest in the order of Melchizedek according to Hebrews 7. And if you want to know what Christ is doing for us today as a priest in the order of Melchizedek, go to Genesis 14:18-22 becos that was the only place Melchizedek was featured and we where told what he did ! Hebrews 5:5''For a man to hold the priesthood, he must be called of God as was Aaron—Christ was a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek—Jesus Christ is the Author of eternal salvation.'' We give our tithe today to Jesus just like Abraham did and he was blessed.For you to tap into the promises of Abraham as a christian haven accepted Christ,learn also to appreciate HIS goodness in ur life !
Abraham tithed not by rules,obligation or threat but by heart that trust the lord. If you love God,you don't need to be preached tithing to becos you know that all that you have belong to God! It is our trust and heart to believe God.Letting HIM know that our no 1 priority is the lord.
Hebrews 8:10 ''.....I will put my laws in their minds,and I will write them on their hearts.I will be their God,and they will be my people.'' It should be in the heart of men to tithe and not by the law of compulsion of any sort !

Let me conclude as i await to answer positive questions in relation to this subject or scripture as it were.

Tithe is not ours but God's
He writes it in our heart
He expects it from us
It is commissioned before the law
Commanded during the law
Commended during the time of Jesus !

Tithing which is appreciation still blesses both the church and the tither !

Remember,The letter(logos)killeth but the rhema (revelation)giveth life !

God bless us

2 Likes

Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by firefox4th(m): 12:59pm On Oct 15, 2013
firefox4th: God told me in 2006 'old testament majors on physical things while new testament,spiritual things'.In far back 1996 He also told me 'physical money is meager amount of money ,give money to me' He did not tell me to give tithe !Tithe is part of the imperfections.It has been substituted with a Liberal Heart(life of giving).Tithe is limiting ,in sight of God, life of giving has no limits.Instead of emphasy on tithe , figure, / amount ,RECORDS ,dwell on life of giving most especially ,to the needy in a centrifugal form and needless to say that whatever you are giving must holy.
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by MarkMiwerds(m): 1:00pm On Oct 15, 2013
Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

The above verse does say, "there he (Jesus) receiveth them".

What is the "them" that Jesus receives?
When was this written?

The book of Hebrews was written in 66 A.D.. Four years prior to Titus invading Jerusalem with his army and destroying the Temple, scattering the Levites who had been ministers of the Temple as the Mosaic/Levitic Law required.

At the time Hebrews was written, the tithes being paid were also according to the Mosaic/Levitic Law. That tithe was a tithe of crops, flocks and herds as the Mosaic/Levitic Law commanded it to be. The sons of Levi had a command to receive tithes of their brethren. (the remaining tribes of Israel) At the same time, the Lord Jesus Christ was receiving tithes.

What tithes was Jesus Christ receiving? Why, the tithes that were being given to the Levites... tithes of crops, flocks and herds. There was no tithe of silver or gold, no tithe of money in any shape or form.

History records that from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., until 585 A.D., no tithes were collected of the people of God at all.

As pointed out, the tithes Jesus is said to have received in Hebrews 7:8 were agricultural in nature... not money. Agricultural tithes were still being received in 66 A.D..

Where is the verse that says we are to tithe money? Why is it so hard for Olaadegbu, Bidam, and others to produce Scripture that says we are to tithe money today?

Oh wait! I know the answer. It is because that "scripture" is only found in the dark recesses of man's vain imagination, and not at all in the Word of God.

2 Likes

Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 1:25pm On Oct 15, 2013
Mark Miwerds: Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

The above verse does say, "there he (Jesus) receiveth them".

What is the "them" that Jesus receives?
When was this written?

The book of Hebrews was written in 66 A.D.. Four years prior to Titus invading Jerusalem with his army and destroying the Temple, scattering the Levites who had been ministers of the Temple as the Mosaic/Levitic Law required.

At the time Hebrews was written, the tithes being paid were also according to the Mosaic/Levitic Law. That tithe was a tithe of crops, flocks and herds as the Mosaic/Levitic Law commanded it to be. The sons of Levi had a command to receive tithes of their brethren. (the remaining tribes of Israel) At the same time, the Lord Jesus Christ was receiving tithes.

What tithes was Jesus Christ receiving? Why, the tithes that were being given to the Levites... tithes of crops, flocks and herds. There was no tithe of silver or gold, no tithe of money in any shape or form.

History records that from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., until 585 A.D., no tithes were collected of the people of God at all.

As pointed out, the tithes Jesus is said to have received in Hebrews 7:8 were agricultural in nature... not money. Agricultural tithes were still being received in 66 A.D..

Where is the verse that says we are to tithe money? Why is it so hard for Olaadegbu, Bidam, and others to produce Scripture that says we are to tithe money today?

Oh wait! I know the answer. It is because that "scripture" is only found in the dark recesses of man's vain imagination, and not at all in the Word of God.
I thank God that you have agreed from the above that Jesus is Melchizedek since you said the tithe he was said to have received in Hebrews 7:8 was of agricultural produce and not money !
Let us see from the very beginning especially the very first tithe Jesus collected ! This can be found in Genesis 14:10-20'' 18 ''And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High, brought Abram some bread and wine. Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing:
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High,who has defeated your enemies for you.”
Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered.'' Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of ALL THE GOODS FROM THE SPOILS OF WAR !
What do you think spoils of war means ? Just to help you a little,it is not compulsorily or most definitely farm produce or live stocks but Any profits extracted as the result of winning a war i.e houses,ships,gold,silver,bronze,petroleum products,CASH ETC. See Scripture below to show you clearly from the bible what spoils could mean:
Joshua 6:18-19 “Do not take any of the things set apart for destruction, or you yourselves will be completely destroyed, and you will bring trouble on the camp of Israel. Everything made from silver, gold, bronze, or iron is sacred to the Lord and must be brought into his treasury.” So Miwerds, dnt think Abraham gave Melchizedek only toro-toro/kpe-kpe-ye or pig and grass cutter or yam,cassava and ewe grin ! It is possible he did but not limited to that since the bible stated clearly that he gave a tenth of ALL THE SPOILS !
Where was Melchizedek before he was tithed to ? and was it during the harvest of farm produce that HE was tithed to ? and was it Abraham's FARM produce that was tithed to Melchizedek ?
See Genesis 28:20-22 ''Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing, and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God. And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.” Jacob said he will present to God a tenth of everything HE gives to him ! And i ask you Midwerk,if God has has blessed Jacob or even me with pounds,dollars,dutch-mark and even naira CASH, landed property and other tangible goods, will it not still be a tenth of all these i will present to God ? So how then are you saying we should not give money as tithe to show appreciation to God if we so desire when HE has blessed us ! The two examples of the very first tithers gave a tithe of all as given to them by God !

God help us
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by swtchicgurl: 1:28pm On Oct 15, 2013
Wow! I've been away for too long....This is a very interesting thread! cheesy

@Alwaystrue and other tithe supporters, God bless your effort. I've read every single page until now.

In another thread, these questions were asked:

a) the children of Israel were required to pay God's Holy tithe, not Gentiles (Leviticus 27)
b) God's Holy tithe was to be given to the Levites, not pastors living in other countries (Numbers 18)
c) the tithe was crops and livestock, not money (Leviticus 27)
d) there were two tithes a year (not 26, not 52) every 1st, 2nd, 4th & 5th year in a seven year cycle (Leviticus 27; Deuteronomy 14)
e) there were three tithes every 3rd & 6th year (Leviticus 27; Deuteronomy 14)
f) only the Levites could bring tithes to the Temple storehouse (Nehemiah 10)
g) The feast tithe was to be eaten by the tither, his family, and the Levites in the place God chose (Deuteronomy 14)
h) the poor tithe was kept on the tither's property to feed widows, orphans, Levites, and refugees (Deuteronomy 14)
i) those who received God's Holy tithe could not own land.
j) every seventh year in a seven year cycle, the land was to rest. this means no harvesting, nor planting. no land tithe was possible.
k) The poor were not required to tithe, but rather were to recieve tithes (Deuteronomy 12; 14)

[b]
I'll try to answer briefly:

a) ok. paying tithe as an unbeliever is a waste of time.

b) who are levites? full-time workers in the house of God, whether pastor or gateman! "their inheritance is of the Lord" if then you don't bring what belongs to God to Him (tithe), how will the levites survive?!

c) at that time, wealth was measured based based on livestock, landed properties and family size. this day, it's basically money! we are not farmers! and yes, you can still tithe anything, money or materials!

d) then, how many times a year do you harvest as a farmer? now, how many times in a year do you recieve salary? pay your tithe as much time! if you are still a farmer, feel free to pay once a year sef... it all depends on when you have an "income"!

e) same as 'd' above

f) when people bring their tithes to the temple, them levites (full time church workers) take them into the storeshouses becos they have the access and authority to do that.

g) 'eating' one's tithe is solely by God's permission! there's a difference between 'you bringing me the money you owe me and i say, don't worry, you can have it' and 'you not bringing it at all'.

h and k) who is a 'poor'? are you poor? the poor will never sieze from the church. if you are 'poor', go ahead and don't pay your tithe! relate with God on the level of your faith! that poor widow gave her all (not just 10percent)!

i) the Lord is their inheritance (levites), also, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. connect the dots.

j) when there's no income, how do you tithe. you can only tithe when there's income.

I pray God will open your eyes! PAY YOUR TITHE![/b]

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Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Nobody: 1:30pm On Oct 15, 2013
shachris:

grin please brother, educate us more on the difference.
we have oil in Nigeria, the money that comes from it may or should be shared among everybody, but it first gets into the hand of the president who then distributes it to the others.
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Nobody: 1:34pm On Oct 15, 2013
shachris:

shocked shocked shocked

Another blasphemy. First Jesus was a Pharisee, now he collected TITHES??
Jesus did not collect tithes during his earthly ministry..He PAID THE TITHES,kept all the Jewish laws..The only accusations the pharisees have against him was the traditions of the elders and the SABBATH and Jesus explained all these quoting the laws of Moses not another law or the laws of gentiles like you. If the pharisees had issues with Jesus against the tithe,they would have strongly voiced their opinions..I trust them,they were a jealous fanatical lot who kept the laws to the last letter.

Even after the death of Jesus the Apostles still visit the temple to PRAY(ACTS 3). In other words they still kept all the Jewish laws and customs. THEY paid their tithes because the temple was still in existence as at then. You people should understand that Jesus wasn't against the LAW AND THE PROPHETS. The problem He had with the Pharisees was that He was the MESSIAH
If you guys are using the flimsy nonsensical argument that no where in scripture was it written that Jesus paid tithe so you wouldn't pay tithe then be ready to do what Jesus did in scripture.

1.Jesus Kept the Feast of Tabernacles John 7:2-14

2.Jesus was a faithful Sabbath keeper (Luke 4:16), regularly going to synagogue for worship and teaching (Matthew 12:1-16, 13:53-54; Mark 1:21; John 6:59). Many of His miracles were performed on Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13, John 5)

3.Jesus went up to Jerusalem for a Jewish feast JOHN 5:1

4.at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication: John 10:22
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Nobody: 1:44pm On Oct 15, 2013
Melchizedek Was Not the preincarnate Christ[size=14pt][/size]

No, Melchizedek was not the same person as Jesus, contrary to a rather popular notion that stems from a misunderstanding of certain passages in Hebrews 7.

Melchizedek is first mentioned in Genesis 14. Abram (later called Abraham), returning from the rescue of his nephew (Lot), encountered this ancient dignitary who was king of Salem (early Jerusalem; cf. Psa. 76:2).

In addition to being king, he was described as “priest of God Most High” (Gen. 14:18).

His stature is revealed in that he “blessed” Abraham (the greater always blesses the lesser), and to Melchizedek the patriarch paid tithes, i.e., gave to the king-priest a tenth of his spoils (the lesser tithes to the greater).

The writer of Hebrews uses this incident (together with a prophecy from Psalm 110), to demonstrate the superiority of the priesthood of Christ to that of the Levitical system (Heb. 7:4-10). Beyond that, there were some similarities between Melchizedek and Christ, so that it may be said that the former was a “type” (a picture or symbolic preview) of Jesus. That does not mean, however, that they were the same person. In fact, the sacred text indicates otherwise.
Christ was said to be a priest “after kata the order taxis of” Melchizedek (Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:11).

The Greek term taxis (order) suggests a similar “arrangement.” For example, just as Melchizedek was both a king and priest simultaneously, so Christ is as well (cf. Zech. 6:12-13; Heb. 1:3).

The preposition kata used with the accusative case suggests the sense of “in accordance with, corresponding to” (Daniel Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996, p. 377). Hence a comparison is being drawn.
Melchizedek was “without father, without mother” (Heb. 7:3a).

The meaning is this: his divine role was not genealogically derived, not handed down from his parents. So, neither was Jesus’ priesthood determined by a physical lineage, as in the case of the Aaronic priests (Ex. 28:1; Num. 3:10).

Among the Tel el Armarna tablets (discovered in Egypt in 1887), there are several letters written to a Pharaoh from one Ebed-tob, who is called “king of Uru-Salim.” The Canaanite king tells the Egyptian ruler that he did not receive his reign from his father and mother, but it had been conferred upon him by “the Mighty King.” This helps to illustrate the phraseology in the book of Hebrews (see A.H. Sayce, “Melchizedek,” Dictionary of the Bible, James Hastings, Ed., Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1908, III, p. 335).
Melchizedek’s administration was without “beginning of days” and “end of life” (Heb. 7:3b).

Again, the meaning is that his priesthood was not for a fixed term (as in the case of the Levitical priests). Under the Old Testament regime, priests began their service at the age of 30, and the Levites served from age 30 to 50 (cf. Num. 4:3ff; 8:24-25).

Apparently, however, there was no chronological limitation with reference to this “priest of Most High God” who reigned in Salem. Again, in this regard he foreshadowed Christ, who serves continually as our priest throughout the Christian age.
That Melchizedek was not the same person as Jesus is evident in that he is said to be “like unto” the Son of God (Heb. 7:3c).

The participle aphomoioo denotes a comparison (e.g., a “copy” or “facsimile” – J.H. Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon, Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1958, pp. 89-90). The term becomes irrelevant if the two persons were the same in identity.

The point is made again in verse 15. Jesus is a priest after the “likeness” of Melchizedek. D.W. Burdick observes:

“The verb aphomoioo always assumes two distinct and separate identities, one of which is a copy of the other. Thus Melchizedek and the Son of God are represented as two separate persons, the first of which resembled the second” (“Melchizedek,” The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia – Revised, G.W. Bromiley, Ed., Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 313).

A distinction between Christ and Melchizedek is vividly seen in Psalm 110.

In this text, Jehovah addresses David’s “Lord” (Jesus) in the second person, while the reference to Melchizedek is in the third person (v. 4). [Note: See Matthew 22:42-44 for Jesus’ application of this psalm to himself.]

Accordingly, one should not make the mistake of identifying the ancient king-priest of Salem as Jesus Christ.

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Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by MarkMiwerds(m): 1:44pm On Oct 15, 2013
m.k.o2005:

I thank God that you have agreed from the above that Jesus is Melchizedek since you said the tithe he was said to have received in Hebrews 7:8 was of agricultural produce and not money !
Let us see from the very beginning especially the very first tithe Jesus collected ! This can be found in Genesis 14:10-20'' 18 ''And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High, brought Abram some bread and wine. Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing:
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High,who has defeated your enemies for you.”
Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered.'' Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of ALL THE GOODS FROM THE SPOILS OF WAR !
What do you think spoils of war means ? Just to help you a little,it is not compulsorily or most definitely farm produce or live stocks but Any profits extracted as the result of winning a war i.e houses,ships,gold,silver,bronze,petroleum products,CASH ETC. See Scripture below to show you clearly from the bible what spoils could mean:
Joshua 6:18-19 “Do not take any of the things set apart for destruction, or you yourselves will be completely destroyed, and you will bring trouble on the camp of Israel. Everything made from silver, gold, bronze, or iron is sacred to the Lord and must be brought into his treasury.” So Miwerds, dnt think Abraham gave Melchizedek only toro-toro/kpe-kpe-ye or pig and grass cutter or yam,cassava and ewe grin ! It is possible he did but not limited to that since the bible stated clearly that he gave a tenth of ALL THE SPOILS !
Where was Melchizedek before he was tithed to ? and was it during the harvest of farm produce that HE was tithed to ? and was it Abraham's FARM produce that was tithed to Melchizedek ?
See Genesis 28:20-22 ''Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing, and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God. And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.” Jacob said he will present to God a tenth of everything HE gives to him ! And i ask you Midwerk,if God has has blessed Jacob or even me with pounds,dollars,dutch-mark and even naira CASH, landed property and other tangible goods, will it not still be a tenth of all these i will present to God ? So how then are you saying we should not give money as tithe to show appreciation to God if we so desire when HE has blessed us ! The two examples of the very first tithers gave a tithe of all as given to them by God !

God help us
I did not say Jesus was Melchizedek. Nor do I believe that He was Melchizedek.

Scripture is quite clear that He cannot be Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Melchizedek was made "like unto", or resembling the Son of God. Notice other verses that use such comparisons:

Matthew 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,

Were the people of Jesus' generation children? Of course not!

Matthew 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Is the kingdom of Heaven a merchant man? Again, the answer is NO!

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Were the scribes and Pharisees tombs? No!

Similitudes are used throughout the Scripture. Melchizedek's comparison to Christ is one such similitude. He was not Jesus Christ.

We who are Christ's have been brought into a new covenant. Scripture does not say we were brought into the old covenant with the Mosaic/Levitic Law. Nor does it say that we were brought into a covenant made with Melchizedek. (if indeed there was such a covenant) No, we aare in a "new covenant." One that did not exist previously. Had it existed previously, it would not be called "NEW".

Where, in the NEW COVENANT, are we instructed to tithe our money? Don't return to the Law for the answer. Don't return to Melchizedek for the answer. We are not in those covenants. We are in a New Covenant with Jesus Christ.

Where does He say "tithe money"?
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 1:54pm On Oct 15, 2013
swtchicgurl: Wow! I've been away for too long....This is a very interesting thread! cheesy

@Alwaystrue and other tithe supporters, God bless your effort. I've read every single page until now.

In another thread, these questions were asked:



[b]
I'll try to answer briefly:

a) ok. paying tithe as an unbeliever is a waste of time.

b) who are levites? full-time workers in the house of God, whether pastor or gateman! "their inheritance is of the Lord" if then you don't bring what belongs to God to Him (tithe), how will the levites survive?!

c) at that time, wealth was measured based based on livestock, landed properties and family size. this day, it's basically money! we are not farmers! and yes, you can still tithe anything, money or materials!

d) then, how many times a year do you harvest as a farmer? now, how many times in a year do you recieve salary? pay your tithe as much time! if you are still a farmer, feel free to pay once a year sef... it all depends on when you have an "income"!

e) same as 'd' above

f) when people bring their tithes to the temple, them levites (full time church workers) take them into the storeshouses becos they have the access and authority to do that.

g) 'eating' one's tithe is solely by God's permission! there's a difference between 'you bringing me the money you owe me and i say, don't worry, you can have it' and 'you not bringing it at all'.

h and k) who is a 'poor'? are you poor? the poor will never sieze from the church. if you are 'poor', go ahead and don't pay your tithe! relate with God on the level of your faith! that poor widow gave her all (not just 10percent)!

i) the Lord is their inheritance (levites), also, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. connect the dots.

j) when there's no income, how do you tithe. you can only tithe when there's income.

I pray God will open your eyes! PAY YOUR TITHE![/b]
Good try though but it's answering as Law demands ! From ur assertions,it shows that Lawfully we can still tithe but i am saying Christ want's to receive our tithe according to the grace HE has made available unto us ! He want's us to cheerfully and willingly bring our tithes to HIM ! Who are we to demand or want to know even what he does with our tithes and offerings ? Ours is to give it,the leaders in the churches are to receive it on HIS (Christ)behalf and HE (Christ)is to present it to God the father and the disbursement will be directed by them (GOD ) ! If we present it and the leaders fail to give it to HIM,(Christ)how is it my concern then ! He can inquire of what is HIS from the receivers who did so on HIS behalf and my divine ATM must hav been credited immediately i made the offer ! Anyone who wan't to know what Jesus did and is still doing as a priest in the order of Melchizedek,let him/her see Genesis 14:18-20 to see what Melchizedek did first ! For every High priest has gifts and sacrifices to offer ! Jesus as a High priest receives our gifts and presents it to HIS father not like the Levetical or Aronical priests or order but in the Melchizedekal order !

God help us
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Candour(m): 1:58pm On Oct 15, 2013
There is nothing Christian about a mandatory 10% of a Christian's income going to the pastor.

Pastors DID NOT replace the Levites neither did the apostles. There is no relationship between the church today and the temple in Jerusalem. The death of Christ on the cross rendered the Levitical priesthood useless and unprofitable. It has been replaced with the high priesthood of Christ with all Christians made priests unto the most high God.

Priests DO NOT pay tithes. Under the law, Priests receive 10% of the tithes brought by the people effectively meaning priests only get 1% of the tithes. There is no priest today qualified to receive tithes from Christians who are priests of the most high God.

Abraham gave Melchizedek tithes of spoils of war, NOT of his PERSONAL FORTUNE even though he had an abundance. He went to the war to get Lot freed and nothing more. It wasn't a profit making venture for him hence he refused the remaining 90%. He finished the war and came back home to his regular life.

Jacob vowed to pay tithes ONLY IF God met a condition. This condition renders any talk of Jacob as a regular tither a LIE. He was with Laban for 20 years and he DID NOT tithe because it was not a practice he met with Isaac his father. Abraham NEVER passed on the practice to Isaac because it was a one off he did with Melchizedek.

Jesus Christ the High priest is in heaven today and NO other Christian qualifies to sit above any other Christian to operate another priesthood over him. All priests are equal under ONE SUPREME HIGH PRIEST and that is how Christianity is.

All Christians who have means are encouraged to help the less privileged who include ministers who due to the work of ministry cannot pursue secular jobs Like the early Christians and the apostle did.

Ministry is not a business and should never be seen as such. Contributions are made on a need to do basis, not to enrich anybody or build an earthly empire. This is the practice the early church did and its the honest way. Money contributed must be for the general good.

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Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by MarkMiwerds(m): 2:03pm On Oct 15, 2013
swtchicgurl: Wow! I've been away for too long....This is a very interesting thread! cheesy

@Alwaystrue and other tithe supporters, God bless your effort. I've read every single page until now.

In another thread, these questions were asked:



[b]
I'll try to answer briefly:
My wife always says, "If trying is what you are doing, doing is what you're not."

a) ok. paying tithe as an unbeliever is a waste of time.
Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men is a waste too.

b) who are levites? full-time workers in the house of God, whether pastor or gateman! "their inheritance is of the Lord" if then you don't bring what belongs to God to Him (tithe), how will the levites survive?!
Hate to burst your bubble, but one does not become a Levite by answering a call to preach the Word of God. Levites are a tribe, not a religion.

c) at that time, wealth was measured based based on livestock, landed properties and family size. this day, it's basically money! we are not farmers! and yes, you can still tithe anything, money or materials!
Easily disproved by the fact that money is seen in the dispensation of the Law many times over, yet not once in the Mosaic Law was money tithed. Money is mentioned more than 500 times in the Old Testament alone.

d) then, how many times a year do you harvest as a farmer? now, how many times in a year do you recieve salary? pay your tithe as much time! if you are still a farmer, feel free to pay once a year sef... it all depends on when you have an "income"!
The Word of God declares God's Holy tithe only to be on agricultural... not income. I'll stick with the Word of God.

e) same as 'd' above
see my answer to 'd' above

f) when people bring their tithes to the temple, them levites (full time church workers) take them into the storeshouses becos they have the access and authority to do that.
As I so rightly pointed out, one does not become a Levite by answering a call of God to preach the Word. Nor does one become a Levite by pastoring a Church. Also, nowhere does the Bible say the Church is the "storehouse." Pastor's do not have the authority to receive tithes. You cannot produce on iota of Scripture that says they do.

g) 'eating' one's tithe is solely by God's permission! there's a difference between 'you bringing me the money you owe me and i say, don't worry, you can have it' and 'you not bringing it at all'.
God nowhere tells the New Testament Church to tithe their money. He nowhere tells them they owe tithes.
h and k) who is a 'poor'? are you poor? the poor will never sieze from the church. if you are 'poor', go ahead and don't pay your tithe! relate with God on the level of your faith! that poor widow gave her all (not just 10percent)!
Who are the poor? People like my mother who were deceived by people like you into giving 10% of their social security benefits over to a corrupt corporation doing business as a Church.

i) the Lord is their inheritance (levites), also, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. connect the dots.
There is no connection. You are attempting to get from point 'a' to point 'z' without following the guidelines that are given at all points in between.

j) when there's no income, how do you tithe. you can only tithe when there's income.
Again, you have no Scripture whatsoever to support your claim. God did not require tithe from income.
I pray God will open your eyes! PAY YOUR TITHE![/b]
God has opened my eyes. I AM NOT REQUIRED TO TITHE!

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Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by 99100(m): 2:08pm On Oct 15, 2013
m.k.o2005:

It's like you are new on this one ! Go and ask Christ embassy,candour,'pastor'kun,fr_evangel and Goshen 360 who searched all the scriptures to disprove a prove that Jesus collected tithe ! But i will take you also on this nevertheless and wait for them to join me on this one.All i will do is to bring to you my previous reply on this one so others can learn but not necessarily you !
SEE BELOW FOR UR DIGEST :

Have you heard of the word Theophany or Christophany ? If no,please see below meaning and scriptural backings :

''A Christophany is an appearance of the preincarnate Christ in the Old Testament, or after his ascension.-Web definition.
''A theophany is a manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period, often, but not always, in human form.
Some of the theophanies are found in these passages:

1. Genesis 12:7-9 – The Lord appeared to Abraham on his arrival in the land God had promised to him and his descendants.

2. Genesis 18:1-33 – One day, Abraham had some visitors: two angels and God Himself. He invited them to come to his home, and he and Sarah entertained them. - a Christophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.

3. Genesis 32:22-30 – Jacob wrestled with what appeared to be a man, but was actually God (vv. 28-30). This may also have been a Christophany.-Christ

4. Exodus 3:2 - 4:17 – God appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush, telling him exactly what He wanted him to do.-Theophany

5. Exodus 24:9-11 – God appeared to Moses with Aaron and his sons and the seventy elders.-Theophany

6. Deuteronomy 31:14-15 – God appeared to Moses and Joshua in the transfer of leadership to Joshua.

7. Job 38–42 – God answered Job out of the tempest and spoke at great length in answer to Job’s questions.-Theophany
8.Daniel 3:24-25 ''Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.''

Frequently, the term “glory of the Lord” reflects a theophany, as in Exodus 24:16-18; the “pillar of cloud” has a similar function in Exodus 33:9. A frequent introduction for theophanies may be seen in the words “the Lord came down,” as in Genesis 11:5; Exodus 34:5; Numbers 11:5; and 12:5.
Every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, where God took the form of a man to live among us as Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).

Having established the above facts,i think it is neccessary we proceed with Hebrews 7 that clearly shows how Christ received TITHE from Abraham and still doing so today !
But to discuss Hebrews,let us see Genesis 14:18-20
''And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High,brought Abram some bread and wine.Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing:“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,Creator of heaven and earth.And blessed be God Most High,who has defeated your enemies for you.”Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered.''

Who is Mechizedek ? We will know who this 'being' is when we get to Hebrews the new testament but keep in mind the meaning of Christophany!
Genesis 28:20-22 '' Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing,and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God.And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.”
From the above two scriptures,it has been established that Abraham who is the father of Christians also whom we MUST receive his blessings through Christ Jesus-tithed and his son Jacob tithed as well before the law ! The Law came after the exodus form Egypt and Abraham had already tithed to 'Melchizedek' before this time(640yrs before the law)And his son Jacob tithed 445yrs before the law and this brings us to the conclusion that tithing never started with the Law and what makes you think it ended with the Law !
Melchizedek,king of Salem and Salem later became Jerusalem,HE brought out wine and bread and blessed Abraham !-Genesis 14:18-22.
Who is the king of Salem(Jerusalem)that brought out bread and wine THE NIGHT BEFORE his DEATH ? Please don't conclude yet untill we get to Hebrew still keeping in mind what Christophany means !
The Law no doubt also commanded tithing but that does not mean that tithing started with the law-Leveticus 27:30-32''A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord.Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord.'' Please note that we are not discussing tithing as unto the law but want to show you that the law also commanded it but only as a shadow of what is to come !Note that Law was never brought about so that we will be under it for eternity but to show us a picture of what will be in the new testament.See Hebrews 10:1a'' For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things,''Remember that the slaying or blood sacrifice was never a bad thing becos it is LAW after all a blood sacrifice also occurred in the new testament-Jesus shedding HIS blood for you and i.So the sacrifices of animals in the OT was indeed a shadow of how to do it better in the NT !

Now let us see what Christ HIMSELF is saying concerning tithing:
Mathew 23:23''“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.''. He supported tithing immediately by saying yes you should tithe but HE rebuked them for not doing other important things contained in the book !-justice, mercy, and faith !
We all know who Jesus is,if he was not in support of tithing,HE would had condemned it right from Mathew 23:23 as HE did with so many other laws like stoning of the adulterous,divorce,Sabbath,paying of taxes,washing of hands before meal and so many others !
The issue of tithing was not discussed extensively in the new testament and i believe that it was not an issue no wonder there were no cases or issues raised concerning it much,but Hebrews gave us insights of what the pre-Law tithing was and what tithing should be as supported by Christ HIMSELF who receives all tithes !

Tithing as absolutely and positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New testament....

Reverting

God help us
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by swtchicgurl: 2:11pm On Oct 15, 2013
The fact that you're 'doing well' at work, home etc, does not mean the consequences of NOT tithing won't play its way out (this is not a threat, it's a guarantee). But that's a discussion for another day.

The whole idea of TITHING simply expresses your faith and love for God. The fact that some 'people' have abused tithe in some churches does not mean that God's standards have changed.

Show me a man who does not tithe and I will show you a man who has put his sight on man's errors other than God's standards.

Many of us are looking God's hands instead of looking on His face. Many of us are listening to the rythm of bad news instead of listening to God's heartbeat.
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Candour(m): 2:14pm On Oct 15, 2013
Bidam:

Even after the death of Jesus the Apostles still visit the temple to PRAY(ACTS 3). In other words they still kept all the Jewish laws and customs. THEY paid their tithes because the temple was still in existence as at then. You people should understand that Jesus wasn't against the LAW AND THE PROPHETS. The problem He had with the Pharisees was that He was the MESSIAH
If you guys are using the flimsy nonsensical argument that no where in scripture was it written that Jesus paid tithe so you wouldn't pay tithe then be ready to do what Jesus did in scripture.

1.Jesus Kept the Feast of Tabernacles John 7:2-14

2.Jesus was a faithful Sabbath keeper (Luke 4:16), regularly going to synagogue for worship and teaching (Matthew 12:1-16, 13:53-54; Mark 1:21; John 6:59). Many of His miracles were performed on Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13, John 5)

3.Jesus went up to Jerusalem for a Jewish feast JOHN 5:1

4.at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication: John 10:22

When the disciples went up to the temple to worship, they ALWAYS found the levitical priesthood in charge because Judaism was still the religion of the Jews. The apostles COULD NEVER have supplanted the Levites as tithe collectors. How could they have done it? When they even had to be dragged to the council for preaching and were flogged for that?

Every ritual or practice at the temple was FULLY UNDER THE CONTROL of these legalists and it will be fantasy to think they gave up the privilege of tithe collections for the apostles.

The early church DID NOT pay tithes to the apostles. The apostles knew they didn't qualify to collect it. What the apostles received were freewill donations which was used for the good of all, not for the church leaders.

Jesus kept all those feasts because he was still under the law. Any command to pay the tithe today should also make it imperative to keep all those feasts.

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Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 2:17pm On Oct 15, 2013
Mark Miwerds: I did not say Jesus was Melchizedek. Nor do I believe that He was Melchizedek.

Scripture is quite clear that He cannot be Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Melchizedek was made "like unto", or resembling the Son of God. Notice other verses that use such comparisons:

Matthew 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,

Were the people of Jesus' generation children? Of course not!

Matthew 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Is the kingdom of Heaven a merchant man? Again, the answer is NO!

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Were the scribes and Pharisees tombs? No!

Similitudes are used throughout the Scripture. Melchizedek's comparison to Christ is one such similitude. He was not Jesus Christ.

We who are Christ's have been brought into a new covenant. Scripture does not say we were brought into the old covenant with the Mosaic/Levitic Law. Nor does it say that we were brought into a covenant made with Melchizedek. (if indeed there was such a covenant) No, we aare in a "new covenant." One that did not exist previously. Had it existed previously, it would not be called "NEW".

Where, in the NEW COVENANT, are we instructed to tithe our money? Don't return to the Law for the answer. Don't return to Melchizedek for the answer. We are not in those covenants. We are in a New Covenant with Jesus Christ.

Where does He say "tithe money"?
See ur quote below :
''As pointed out, the tithes Jesus is said to have received in Hebrews 7:8 were agricultural in nature... not money. Agricultural tithes were still being received in 66 A.D..''
Just to start with the above quote for clarity sake,but since you are refusing ur own comment,i can not force it on you !
But please study Hebrews and Genesis very well and spiritually discern who Melchizedek is likened to !
Jesus is the high priest according to the order of Melchizedek was mentioned seven times in Hebrews alone. Do you think it's for furn !

Hebrews 5:6''And in another passage God said to him, "You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."
Hebrews 5:10''And God designated him to be a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.''
Hebrews 6:20''where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.''
Hebrews 7:11''If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood--and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood--why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?''
Hebrews 7:15''This change has been made very clear since a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has appeared.''
Hebrews 7:17 ''And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied, "You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."
Hebrews 7:21 ''but there was an oath regarding Jesus. For God said to him, "The LORD has taken an oath and will not break his vow: 'You are a priest forever.'"

Now from the above,who do you think this scripture is referring to ? No other person but Jesus ! Who do you think Melchizedek is ? Remember he is called the king of Salem which was later named Jerusalem. Who was crucified becos they called HIM king of Jerusalem or the Jews as it were ?-Jesus.
Melchizedek was referred to as King of Justice-Jesus is the only king of Justice we have. Melchizedek was called the king of peace! It is only Jesus who is the king of peace. No man ever remained a priest for Ever [/b]other than Jesus but Melchizedek was said to had remained a priest forever. Infact the book of Hebrews said [b]HE resembled the son of God ! According to the law,if you are not from the Levetical or Aronical order you can't take tithe but Melchizedek collected tithe from Abraham and this is the reason we give tithe today to Jesus.Abraham did it to lay the foundation of the tithing principle today not according to laws of exodus,deuteronomy,leveticus or even Malachi. Malachi showed us the blessings there is and God want's to do more for us no wonder HE want's us to praise,give thanks for the ones HE has done already !
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT MELCHIZEDEK DID AND IS STILL DOING TODAY,VISIT GENESIS 14:18-20 AND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO HE IS,VISIT HEBREWS 7 !

God bless us
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by MarkMiwerds(m): 2:19pm On Oct 15, 2013
swtchicgurl: The fact that you're 'doing well' at work, home etc, does not mean the consequences of NOT tithing won't play its way out (this is not a threat, it's a guarantee). But that's a discussion for another day.

The whole idea of TITHING simply expresses your faith and love for God. The fact that some 'people' have abused tithe in some churches does not mean that God's standards have changed.

Show me a man who does not tithe and I will show you a man who has put his sight on man's errors other than God's standards.

Many of us are looking God's hands instead of looking on His face. Many of us are listening to the rythm of bad news instead of listening to God's heartbeat.
All who teach their members to tithe their money have "abused tithe". God said in His Holy Word that His tithe consisted of crops, flocks, and herds.

Man teaches that God requires a monetary tithe with no Scripture whatsoever to support his claim.

Monetary tithe requirement teachers "abuse tithe" whether they buy fancy homes, cars and jets... or not!
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by swtchicgurl: 2:22pm On Oct 15, 2013
m.k.o2005:

Good try though but it's answering as Law demands ! From ur assertions,it shows that Lawfully we can still tithe but i am saying Christ want's to receive our tithe according to the grace HE has made available unto us ! He want's us to cheerfully and willingly bring our tithes to HIM ! Who are we to demand or want to know even what he does with our tithes and offerings ? Ours is to give it,the leaders in the churches are to receive it on HIS (Christ)behalf and HE (Christ)is to present it to God the father and the disbursement will be directed by them (GOD ) ! If we present it and the leaders fail to give it to HIM,(Christ)how is it my concern then ! He can inquire of what is HIS from the receivers who did so on HIS behalf and my divine ATM must hav been credited immediately i made the offer ! Anyone who wan't to know what Jesus did and is still doing as a priest in the order of Melchizedek,let him/her see Genesis 14:18-20 to see what Melchizedek did first ! For every High priest has gifts and sacrifices to offer ! Jesus as a High priest receives our gifts and presents it to HIS father not like the Levetical or Aronical priests or order but in the Melchizedekal order !

God help us

Thanks M.K.O. See below:

swtchicgurl: The fact that you're 'doing well' at work, home etc, does not mean the consequences of NOT tithing won't play its way out (this is not a threat, it's a guarantee). But that's a discussion for another day.

The whole idea of TITHING simply expresses your faith and love for God. The fact that some 'people' have abused tithe in some churches does not mean that God's standards have changed.

Show me a man who does not tithe and I will show you a man who has put his sight on man's errors other than God's standards.

Many of us are looking God's hands instead of looking on His face. Many of us are listening to the rythm of bad news instead of listening to God's heartbeat.

Cheers.
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Nobody: 2:34pm On Oct 15, 2013
swtchicgurl: The fact that you're 'doing well' at work, home etc, does not mean the consequences of NOT tithing won't play its way out (this is not a threat, it's a guarantee). But that's a discussion for another day.

The whole idea of TITHING simply expresses your faith and love for God. The fact that some 'people' have abused tithe in some churches does not mean that God's standards have changed.

Show me a man who does not tithe and I will show you a man who has put his sight on man's errors other than God's standards.

Many of us are looking God's hands instead of looking on His face. Many of us are listening to the rythm of bad news instead of listening to God's heartbeat.

So Adenuga,Dangote,Bill gates e.t.c pay tithes abi? How come pentecostal xtians who are more 'faithful' with tithes are not the most succesful people in the world? SMH for some people

1 Like

Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by debosky(m): 2:42pm On Oct 15, 2013
swtchicgurl: The fact that you're 'doing well' at work, home etc, does not mean the consequences of NOT tithing won't play its way out (this is not a threat, it's a guarantee). But that's a discussion for another day.

What are the consequences of not tithing?
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by swtchicgurl: 2:47pm On Oct 15, 2013
Mark Miwerds: All [/b]who teach their members to tithe their money have "abused tithe". God said in His Holy Word that His tithe consisted of [b]crops, flocks, and herds.

Man teaches that God requires a monetary tithe with no Scripture whatsoever to support his claim.

Monetary tithe requirement teachers "abuse tithe" whether they buy fancy homes, cars and jets... or not!

Mr Mark,

How did you arrive at 'ALL' in your statement? Also, you can freely tithe anything you have without necessarily converting it to money - fruit, cloth, whatever. so, if you are a farmer, go ahead and tithe fruit. Just tithe!
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Demainman1: 2:57pm On Oct 15, 2013
@swtchicgurl, Can you answer the question that debosky asked please?
What are the consequences of not tithing?
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Demainman1: 2:58pm On Oct 15, 2013
@Bidam, Do you still belief that Jesus is a Pharisee?
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 2:58pm On Oct 15, 2013
shachris: Melchizedek Was Not the preincarnate Christ[size=14pt][/size]

No, Melchizedek was not the same person as Jesus, contrary to a rather popular notion that stems from a misunderstanding of certain passages in Hebrews 7.

Melchizedek is first mentioned in Genesis 14. Abram (later called Abraham), returning from the rescue of his nephew (Lot), encountered this ancient dignitary who was king of Salem (early Jerusalem; cf. Psa. 76:2).

In addition to being king, he was described as “priest of God Most High” (Gen. 14:18).

His stature is revealed in that he “blessed” Abraham (the greater always blesses the lesser), and to Melchizedek the patriarch paid tithes, i.e., gave to the king-priest a tenth of his spoils (the lesser tithes to the greater).

The writer of Hebrews uses this incident (together with a prophecy from Psalm 110), to demonstrate the superiority of the priesthood of Christ to that of the Levitical system (Heb. 7:4-10). Beyond that, there were some similarities between Melchizedek and Christ, so that it may be said that the former was a “type” (a picture or symbolic preview) of Jesus. That does not mean, however, that they were the same person. In fact, the sacred text indicates otherwise.
Christ was said to be a priest “after kata the order taxis of” Melchizedek (Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:11).

The Greek term taxis (order) suggests a similar “arrangement.” For example, just as Melchizedek was both a king and priest simultaneously, so Christ is as well (cf. Zech. 6:12-13; Heb. 1:3).

The preposition kata used with the accusative case suggests the sense of “in accordance with, corresponding to” (Daniel Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996, p. 377). Hence a comparison is being drawn.
Melchizedek was “without father, without mother” (Heb. 7:3a).

The meaning is this: his divine role was not genealogically derived, not handed down from his parents. So, neither was Jesus’ priesthood determined by a physical lineage, as in the case of the Aaronic priests (Ex. 28:1; Num. 3:10).

Among the Tel el Armarna tablets (discovered in Egypt in 1887), there are several letters written to a Pharaoh from one Ebed-tob, who is called “king of Uru-Salim.” The Canaanite king tells the Egyptian ruler that he did not receive his reign from his father and mother, but it had been conferred upon him by “the Mighty King.” This helps to illustrate the phraseology in the book of Hebrews (see A.H. Sayce, “Melchizedek,” Dictionary of the Bible, James Hastings, Ed., Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1908, III, p. 335).
Melchizedek’s administration was without “beginning of days” and “end of life” (Heb. 7:3b).

Again, the meaning is that his priesthood was not for a fixed term (as in the case of the Levitical priests). Under the Old Testament regime, priests began their service at the age of 30, and the Levites served from age 30 to 50 (cf. Num. 4:3ff; 8:24-25).

Apparently, however, there was no chronological limitation with reference to this “priest of Most High God” who reigned in Salem. Again, in this regard he foreshadowed Christ, who serves continually as our priest throughout the Christian age.
That Melchizedek was not the same person as Jesus is evident in that he is said to be “like unto” the Son of God (Heb. 7:3c).

The participle aphomoioo denotes a comparison (e.g., a “copy” or “facsimile” – J.H. Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon, Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1958, pp. 89-90). The term becomes irrelevant if the two persons were the same in identity.

The point is made again in verse 15. Jesus is a priest after the “likeness” of Melchizedek. D.W. Burdick observes:

“The verb aphomoioo always assumes two distinct and separate identities, one of which is a copy of the other. Thus Melchizedek and the Son of God are represented as two separate persons, the first of which resembled the second” (“Melchizedek,” The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia – Revised, G.W. Bromiley, Ed., Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 313).

A distinction between Christ and Melchizedek is vividly seen in Psalm 110.

In this text, Jehovah addresses David’s “Lord” (Jesus) in the second person, while the reference to Melchizedek is in the third person (v. 4). [Note: See Matthew 22:42-44 for Jesus’ application of this psalm to himself.]

Accordingly, one should not make the mistake of identifying the ancient king-priest of Salem as Jesus Christ.
The Mystery of Melchizedek !


FEW MYSTERIES of the Bible have attracted more interest than the mystery of the identity of Melchizedek as Hewbert put's it !
Sahchris,you are taking us backwards ! Who is he?
See below from Hewbert :
You will read in Hebrews 6:19-20 that Jesus Christ, after His resurrection, is High Priest "after the order of Melchizedek." The plainer English of the Moffatt translation words it: ". . with the rank of" that is, equal status with "Melchizedek."

Melchizedek Was God's Priest for sure !

First, notice from both Old and New Testaments that the man of mystery, Melchizedek, was a priest of the Most High God. Turn 'low to the account in Genesis 14. During the war between a number of ancient city-states in Canaan and Mesopotamia, Abraham's nephew Lot had been captured. He and his family and goods were carted off.

One of their number escaped and brought the news to Abraham, who armed 318 of his own servants and pursued the invaders to what was later named Dan and beyond. Abraham rescued Lot and his family and returned them safely to the Canaanite cities.

On Abraham's return 'a man of mystery bursts upon the scene'. Abraham was ministered to by Melchizedek.

Here is the account:

"And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of God Most High. And he [Melchizedek] blessed him [Abraham] and said, 'Blessed be Abram by God Most High, maker of heaven and earth; and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!' And Abram gave him [Melchizedek] a tenth of everything" that is, a tithe of all, for a tithe means a tenth (Genesis 14:18-20, RSV).

Notice that Melchizedek was king of Salem. That is the city of Jerusalem. "Salem" comes from the Hebrew word meaning "peace." That would make Melchizedek the "King of Peace" (Hebrews 7:2''Then Abraham took a tenth of all he had captured in battle and gave it to Melchizedek. The name Melchizedek means "king of justice," and king of Salem means "king of peace."wink. The Hebrew name Melchizedek itself means "King of Righteousness" (Hebrews 7:2). The same individual is mentioned in Psalm 110:4. Speaking prophetically of Christ, David stated: "The Eternal hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This verse is quoted again in Hebrews 5:6, 10.
Before we turn to Hebrews for the identification of Melchizedek, remember that this mystery figure is a mystery only to us. Abraham and the King of wicked Sodom knew exactly who he was. They must have seen him before. He could not have been a Canaanite, for they were steeped in pagan customs. And furthermore Canaan was a descendant of Ham, whereas God basically chose the descendants of Shem to accomplish His work.

Then who is the mystery man Melchizedek?

One other hint before we proceed. The land of Canaan from ancient time, before the days of Moses, was known among the Gentiles as "the divine land" the Holy land" the land of the place of worship!" Why? Was there someone in the Holy Land who was divine, holy, worthy of worship?

The Mystery Clears !

Coming to Hebrews 7, we find Melchizedek identified:

"For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace" (Hebrews 7:1-2).

Since God names individuals what they are, that, then is what this man is.. "King of Righteousness."

Think of it! King of Righteousness. !

Jesus Himself said: "There is none good but one, that is, God" (Matthew 19:17). Human self-righteousness is, before God, as filthy rags. None can be righteous but God—or one made righteous by God's power—Christ in a person! And certainly none but One of the Godhead the divine Kingdom of God would be King of Righteousness. Such an expression, applied to any but God, would be blasphemous. Why?

Righteousness is obedience to God's Law. Since God made all laws (James 4:12), He is Supreme Ruler or King. He determines what righteousness is. "All thy commandments are righteousness" (Psalm 119:172). When speaking of one of the points of that Law, Jesus placed Himself superior to it. He is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28). No man is Lord or King over God's Law. Only God could be! All human beings have sinned and broken that Law of righteousness (Romans 3:23).

To continue with Hebrews 7. Note, too, that this man was King of peace. "Salem" from which Jerusalem was named means "peace." And remember, Jesus is called the Prince of peace! No human being could be King of Peace. Men know not the way of peace. Read Romans 3:10 and 17: "There is none righteous, no, not one.... And the way of peace have they not known."

Observe further: Melchizedek was "without mother, without father, without descent," or as the Phillips translation renders it: "He had no father or mother and no family tree." He was not born as human beings are. He was without father and mother. This does not mean that Melchizedek's records of birth were lost. Without such records human priests could not serve (Ezra 2:62). But here Melchizedek had no genealogy. He must not have been an ordinary mortal. He had no descent or pedigree from another, but was self-existent. Notice Paul's own inspired interpretation of this fact: "Having neither beginning of days, nor end of life" (Hebrews 7:3). Therefore He has always existed from eternity! He was not even created, like angels. But He is now eternally self-existing. And that is true only of GOD deity, not humanity!

Melchizedek is Not the Father Nor the Holy Spirit !

Yet Melchizedek cannot be God the Father. He was the "priest of that Most High God." Scripture says no man has ever seen the Father (John 1:18, 5:37), but Abraham saw Melchizedek. He cannot be God the Father, but rather, "made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually" (Hebrews 7:3).Meaning HE is still a priest even today becos HE is said to be a priest Forever who never died

And there it is! In the days of Abraham, He was not the Son of God, for He had not yet been born of the virgin Mary but He was made like unto the Son of God in His manifestation to the ancients.

Notice again: Melchizedek, this scripture reveals, abides that is, remains permanently, continually, a priest. God the Father is not the Priest of God, but Christ the Son is! Yet, in the days when the Apostle Paul lived and wrote, shortly after Jesus ascended to heaven as High Priest, the scripture states that even then Melchizedek "abideth "—which means does now abide—"a priest continually." The Moffatt translation states it: "continues to be priest permanently" even while Jesus Christ is High Priest!

And notice that the order of Christ's Priesthood is named after Melchizedek. It is the High Priest's name that is placed upon an order just as Aaron's name was upon the Aaronic priesthood. Thus Melchizedek was then High Priest, in Paul's day, and even now, and He will rule forever! [/b]And at the same time Christ was, is today, and shall be forever High Priest!

Are there two High Priests'? No! Impossible! The conclusion is inescapable. Contrary to many cherished man-thought-out ideas, [b]Melchizedek and Christ are one and the same!
Some people have stumbled on the statement that Melchizedek has no "end of life." They contend that since Christ died, He had an end of life! If that be true then Christ is still dead! But Christ is not dead. He is alive. It was not possible for Christ to be held by death (Acts 2:24). Melchizedek would never have fulfilled His office of High Priest if He had not died for the sins of the people and risen again. It is the function of the High Priest to lead the way to salvation.

Indeed, Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our salvation (Hebrews 5:9; 12:2). He is "called of God an high priest after the order of Melchizedek" (Hebrews 5:10).

And no wonder. Melchizedek and Christ are one and the same Person!''
Shachris and Miwerk,i decided to put up the above for both of you becos the others hav seen this prior to this time but they still refuse to admit openly yet they can not disproof all that i have been saying becos it is nothing but the scripture .
Make a research on theophany and Christophany,it will help u understand more. Please see below :

''A Christophany is an appearance of the preincarnate Christ in the Old Testament, or after his ascension.-Web definition.
''A Theophany is a manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period, often, but not always, in human form.
Some of the theophanies are found in these passages:

1. Genesis 12:7-9 – The Lord appeared to Abraham on his arrival in the land God had promised to him and his descendants.

2. Genesis 18:1-33 – One day, Abraham had some visitors: two angels and God Himself. He invited them to come to his home, and he and Sarah entertained them. - a Christophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.

3. Genesis 32:22-30 – Jacob wrestled with what appeared to be a man, but was actually God (vv. 28-30). This may also have been a Christophany.-Christ

4. Exodus 3:2 - 4:17 – God appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush, telling him exactly what He wanted him to do.-Theophany

5. Exodus 24:9-11 – God appeared to Moses with Aaron and his sons and the seventy elders.-Theophany

6. Deuteronomy 31:14-15 – God appeared to Moses and Joshua in the transfer of leadership to Joshua.

7. Job 38–42 – God answered Job out of the tempest and spoke at great length in answer to Job’s questions.-Theophany

Frequently, the term “glory of the Lord” reflects a theophany, as in Exodus 24:16-18; the “pillar of cloud” has a similar function in Exodus 33:9. A frequent introduction for theophanies may be seen in the words “the Lord came down,” as in Genesis 11:5; Exodus 34:5; Numbers 11:5; and 12:5.
Every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, where God took the form of a man to live among us as Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).

IF HEBREWS WOULD SAY ''There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors--no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.'' How then do you still argue HIS person !
Daniel 3:24-25'' Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.” “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God'' This is another Christophany and if i conclude that Christ was actually in the burning furnace with the three hebrew children would that be heresy or blasphemy ? Open ur eyes Shachris or be left with this saying of Apostle Paul :
Hebrews 5:11-14''There is much more we would like to say about this, but it is difficult to explain, especially since you are spiritually dull and don’t seem to listen. You have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God’s word.You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food.For someone who lives on milk is still an infant and doesn’t know how to do what is right. Solid food is for those who are mature, who through training have the skill to recognize the difference between right and wrong.''

God help us

1 Like

Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by swtchicgurl: 3:03pm On Oct 15, 2013
chukwudi44:

So Adenuga,Dangote,Bill gates e.t.c pay tithes abi? How come pentecostal xtians who are more 'faithful' with tithes are not the most succesful people in the world? SMH for some people

Who told you pentecostal christians aren't successful?

After you all will start complaining that 'successful pentecostals' are not helping the needy in the society, that they prefer to use their money to meet their own needs!

How can one satisfy men?! You get money, them go talk, you no get money, them go ask question!

Take note, it's not all about money.

By God's grace and His mercy, I am a living testimony of a successful Tither! cool
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 3:07pm On Oct 15, 2013
Demain_man: @swtchicgurl, Can you answer the question that debosky asked please?
What are the consequences of not tithing?
The consequences of not tithing is same as the consequences of not praising and worshipping God,not giving offerings,not helping the less privileges,not giving to the poor and widows and also not thanking God in all things !
Should we say becos we fellowship with other believers then we shouldn't have a one on one fellowship with God ? Or becos we help the less privileges,poor and widow then we should not support the work of God regarding furtherance of the gospel ? It's a wholistic package and no wonder Christ said to the scribes and the pharisees in the presence of HIS disciples in Mathew 23:23''What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.'' We have to do all along with the others !

God help us

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