Messages like this will always stir up religious spirit among Christians. Not everyone who reads will "understand". Do you\we "understand" what you\we read in the OP?

Anyway, that's the revealed message of the new testament taught in the OP. He had only pointed out forgiveness but, God will, I will come back and finish the rest.

Bless God for revelational teachings.

shdemidemi:

Why are you making it out like a it's competition between the words of Christ and the epistles of Paul. Just as the OP pointed out Jesus made preparations for the dispensation of the Holy Spirit that would come after Him. Paul did not come and speak his own word but he heralded the gospel of Christ.




Is that your own interpretation? If not, pls show us you in the verse you quoted where it says we are the ones doing the talking. Thanks

Romans 8:26 literally reads, ". . . the Holy Ghost maketh intercession for us in groanings that cannot be uttered in articulate speech."

That agrees with what Paul said in First Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth. . . ." The Amplified Bible says, ". . . my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays. . .."

The Holy Ghost is not going to do your praying for you. He is sent to dwell in us as a Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby (John 14:16 Amp.).

The Holy Spirit is not responsible for our prayer life. He is sent to help us pray. Speaking with other tongues is praying as the Spirit gives utterance.

If the Holy Spirit did our praying for us, that would make Him responsible for our prayer life, and that's out of line with the Bible.

Pastor Goshen...I zoom you through my binoculars.

Top of the day bro

Bidam: Romans 8:26 literally reads, ". . . the Holy Ghost maketh intercession [b]for us [/b]in groanings that cannot be uttered in articulate speech."

That verse says for us, you say through us. Hope you get the difference.

Bidam:
That agrees with what Paul said in First Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth. . . ." The Amplified Bible says, ". . . my spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays. . .."

Notice the difference in the 'spirit' he talked about in Corinthians. It means his (Paul's) spirit not the Holy Spirit as we have in Romans.

Bidam:
The Holy Ghost is not going to do your praying for you. He is sent to dwell in us as a Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby (John 14:16 Amp.).

The Holy Spirit is not responsible for our prayer life. He is sent to help us pray. Speaking with other tongues is praying as the Spirit gives utterance.

If the Holy Spirit did our praying for us, that would make Him responsible for our prayer life, and that's out of line with the Bible.

The Holy Spirit actually does, Jesus does as well as written in verse 27 and substantiated in verse 34
Romans 8:34
34 Who is there to condemn [us]? Will Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who died, or rather Who was raised from the dead, Who is at the right hand of God actually pleading as He intercedes for us?

shdemidemi: Pastor Goshen...I zoom you through my binoculars.

Top of the day bro

Top of the day to you too brother. I have been having issues browsing from my phone for few days now except I get home, can't do much. It's been resolved now and we can fellowship anywhere, anytime.

The Spirit is ONE, because I being wanting to do similar teaching like the OP but time constrained.

The truth is, no Christian can "understand" the teachings of Christ without first understanding THE MINISTRY OF CHRIST AND THE CROSS.

We, preach CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED is the message of the cross AND MESSAGE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. When Christians understand the message of the cross, then we will understand the teaching ministry of Christ.

Again, we bless God for gift of revelational KNOW \ EDGE.

Joshthefirst: okay ma'm. Thanks

You are welcome.
As @Bidam said, it is a pattern, a manner, a fashion, so whether you pray it exactly like that or not is not the issue. Saying it should not be prayed at all or is not for believers is the issue. We can pray all kinds of prayers to God.

Reyginus: From experience it doesn't do that.
What it does has always being making the scripture appear loose and illogical.
It is not even a discussion in the first place.

From my experience, I study more and gain more insights. So it depends on perception. Thank you.

JMAN05:
He could be called a God but not the almighty God. two Gods are mentioned there. one the word/begotten son while the other is a Father.

Whatever rocks your boat. The scripture is as clear as day. One is the Father and the other is the Son and they are both God. Very simple for me to understand. Thanks.

Goshen360: Messages like this will always stir up religious spirit among Christians. Not everyone who reads will "understand". Do you\we "understand" what you\we read in the OP?

Anyway, that's the revealed message of the new testament taught in the OP. He had only pointed out forgiveness but, God will, I will come back and finish the rest.

Bless God for revelational teachings.

At last.

In as much this message could be difficult to swallow I hope you get to read it again the day you come to the realisation of this truth.

the message is not meant for all as some of us are still feeding on the milk of the word...while some have already graduated to the meat level.

One point I want us to note is this; You cannot impress God with your works..be it number of days of fasting or number of hours of prayers, there will always be "one thing" lacking! Our problem today is the image of ourselves we project when we come God, especially in prayer.

In Gen 1:26, God made man in His Own image, We don't have any problem believing that just like Adam, but when Satan came to them, he only projected same image to them, and they doubted God, why? because the devil made them believe they "must do something" to qualify, to become, to achieve what God has granted them. Thank God Jesus passed this test - He didn't need to turn stone to bread before He can become Son of God..why? He know who He is, nothing to be done to achieve that.

A dog doesn't bark in order to become a dog, it's a dog even before it starts barking..so it barks because it's a dog..Our original status had been restored at redemptionm since Jesus' sacrifice. If God can release His only Son to die for us all even when we're still in the devil's camp..(we even killed Him), what else do you think you can do to please Him or get your prayer answered? All we need is to accept God's love and live a life pleasing to Him. That's all, "the Lord's prayer" or not, there's no point in trekking when you have a free bus ticket.

@alwaystrue
@josh
@shemidemi

I have this for you; why do you still fast as a believer, is it to get God's attention or to give Holy Spirit dominion of your flesh? your responses would be appreciated.

Thanks you all for your comments. They are highly appreciated.

@alwaystrue
Whatever rocks your boat. The scripture is as clear as day.
One is the Father and the other is the Son and they are both
God. Very simple for me to understand. Thanks.

are you saying God? you contradict yourself. Gods instead. take a look at that verse again.

damilarelr: In as much this message could be difficult to swallow I hope you get to read it again the day you come to the realisation of this truth.

I am not even swallowing it talk less of having diffculty to do so. The Word of God (Jesus) is truth and life already. The Holy Spirit guides us in all truth as well. You are the one trying to claim you know better than those who asked Jesus to teach them how to pray and Jesus teaching them 'IN THE MANNER' to. I think this has been well explained here. It is not a must for you to accept it.
You gave some valid scriptures but it no way negates what Jesus said. Simple.

damilarelr:
If God can release His only Son to die for us all even when we're still in the devil's camp..(we even killed Him), what else do you think you can do to please Him or get your prayer answered? All we need is to accept God's love and live a life pleasing to Him. That's all, "the Lord's prayer" or not, there's no point in trekking when you have a free bus ticket.

If that is all ...."'Lord's prayer' or not", why write an epistle as if the 'Lord's prayer' affects accepting God's love and living a life pleasing to him? It is amazing the angle this is coming from now.

damilarelr: I have this for you; why do you still fast as a believer, is it to get God's attention or to give Holy Spirit dominion of your flesh? your responses would be appreciated.
Thanks you all for your comments. They are highly appreciated.

Fasting is a means to humble yourself in the sight of God....that is all I will say.
You have the bible so you can do your studies to confirm or reject my statement.


@Jman05,
I did not make a mistake in my post. And you are under no obligation to accept my post either. Thanks.

I did not make a mistake in my post. And you are under no
obligation to accept my post either. Thanks.

I want to accept your point, but it has to be consistent with what the bible says or do you savor gullibility?

My point is that their are two Gods there, but you said one. You think you are right and I think I am too. will it not be good to see my point first while i see urs?

We believers really love being argumentative over every little thing, honestly.

There is no prayer request in the Lord's prayer that is not relevant now in Christ and to the new covenant believer. Is hallowing the Father no more for believers? Or for His kingdom to come and His will be done or earth? Or for Him to give you your daily bread, or forgive your trespasses, or deliver you from evil and the rest? Which of these is no more a relevant prayer request for the new testament believer? These are things we still need God to do in our lives daily, it never gets old or outdated. Simply pray it now in the name of Jesus and God will still answer.

Its like saying the priestly benediction of the Old covenant is no more relevant.

Numbers 6v24-26, The Lord bless the and keep thee. The Lord make His face shine upon thee and be gracious into thee. The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee and give thee peace.

Is these too no more a good or relevant benediction to say coz we are now believers? Which of these prayer requests is now outdated or have become things we no longer need God to do in our lives? Simply pray it now in the name of Jesus, the high priest of the new covenant, and God will still gladly honour and answer.

The Lord's prayer and the priestly benediction are still valid prayers for believers, that God will gladly honour and answer when prayed with faith in the name of Jesus.

We might not call it the Lord's prayer or the priestly benediction or even pray it in a recitative order as it is in scripture but the requests there are things we could still use in our lives. The kingdom has been set up in Christ but it is still been established in the church in this age, and it will be established in the creation through Christ and the church in the age to come. So saying thy kingdom come and thy will be done on earth won't be an outdated prayer until the millenial reign comes.

And our Father who hath in heaven is still true. God is still in heaven, no matter how we look at it. His omni-presence is in everyone of us by his Holy Spirit but, but his literal presence is still in heaven. It is after his city comes down to earth that we will have his literal presence and see his face. Rev 22v4 ...And they shall see his face. Calling him 'Abba Father' does not make 'Our heavenly Father' oldschool. Paul himself said in 2Cor 5v6 ...Therefore we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are ABSENT from the Lord. He was talking about literal presence and absence here.

And Jesus too, even though he said 'I am in the Father and the Father is in me'. When He wanted to pray in John 17v1 bible says ..These words spake Jesus and lifted up his eyes to HEAVEN and said FATHER.... So His literal presence is still in heaven, even though he lives in us by his holy Spirit.

We love to make mountains out of pebbles. We can still pray the requests in the Lord's prayer and we will still be correct, whether we call it the Lord's prayer or not.

damilarelr: I have this for you; why do you still fast as a believer, is it to get God's attention or to give Holy Spirit dominion of your flesh? your responses would be appreciated.

Thanks you all for your comments. They are highly appreciated.

Fasting is a travailing tool, you don't fast to impress God or even recieve from him per se. Fasting is like a woman travailing to bring forth what she carries on her inside. Any grace doctrine that tries to expunge or remove fasting, prayer and the word study from the list of necessities under the new covenant is signing you up for stagnation in your walk unto perfection with the Holy Spirit.

There are glories deposited in your spirit that you carry on the inside and you just cant 'wish' them into physical manifestation (believe me, I've tried). You need to know about them through intensive word study and meditation, and to bring them forth in the place of travail; and one of such travailing tools is prayer and fasting.

Jesus said in Matt 9v15 ...But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast.

It means as long as we are in the age of Christ's physical absence from His church (The church age), we will always need the tools of fasting (and the word and prayer) to bring forth his glory and manifest his tangible presence. Bringing forth his glory is not automatic, even though you have become filled with it. You need to travail like a woman.

Alwaystrue: Fasting is a means to humble yourself in the sight of God....that is all I will say.
You have the bible so you can do your studies to confirm or reject my statement. .

Its okay. Honestly, butt from your response, does it mean when you are not in fast you're not humbled before God, or what is that status of your spirit when you're fasting and when you are not?

JMAN05:

I want to accept your point, but it has to be consistent with what the bible says or do you savor gullibility?

My point is that their are two Gods there, but you said one. You think you are right and I think I am too. will it not be good to see my point first while i see urs?

If you check the original word used to express God in Gen 1, it was all Eloha..and that's a plural word for God, whereas other parts of the Bible made use of Elohim which is a singular word for God (talking about God the Father). Eloha's validity was further proved when the Bible say "let US make man in OUR image"...now you understand. One God is the Trinity, the other is God the Father. Its the English language that couldn't represent the two Gods (so to say) very well in the English bible because the Trinity and God the Father are one and the same!

ayoku777:

Fasting is a travailing tool, you don't fast to impress God or even recieve from him per se. Fasting is like a woman travailing to bring forth what she carries on her inside. Any grace doctrine that tries to expunge or remove fasting, prayer and the word study from the list of necessities under the new covenant is signing you up for stagnation in your walk unto perfection with the Holy Spirit.

There are glories deposited in your spirit that you carry on the inside and you just cant 'wish' them into physical manifestation (believe me, I've tried). You need to know about them through intensive word study and meditation, and to bring them forth in the place of travail; and one of such travailing tools is prayer and fasting.

Jesus said in Matt 9v15 ...But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast.

It means as long as we are in the age of Christ's physical absence from His church (The church age), we will always need the tools of fasting (and the word and prayer) to bring forth his glory and manifest his tangible presence. Bringing forth his glory is not automatic, even though you have become filled with it. You need to travail like a woman.

Quite insightful. So, when should a Believer fast cos if fasting is what bring forth God's glory and presence,...lot of people are definitely living without God's presence and glory around them?

damilarelr:

Quite insightful. So, when should a Believer fast cos if fasting is what bring forth God's glory and presence,...lot of people are definitely living without God's presence and glory around them?

And you're right on point with that observation, there is a famine of glory in the land. We desperately need a revival of travail in the church. And I'm not just narrowing it to fasting alone. Travail in the word, in prayer, in fasting, in giving and in prompt obedience to the Spirit.

And as for your question on when? WE BEGIN NOW! The when is NOW, and when to we stop? We don't STOP! Until the glory breaks out and the earth is filled with the knowledge of the glory of God as the waters cover the sea. The 'WHEN' is long overdue.

We need to ask God to pour on us the Spirit of grace and supplication. Prophecies don't just come to pass by luck or automatically. Just coz the lamb of God was slain 'since the foundation of the earth' doesn't mean Jesus didn't need to groan to fulfil it.

Paul, when admonishing timothy in 1Tim 1v18 said ...This charge I commit unto thee son Timothy according to the PROPHECIES which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest WAR a good warfare.

So you still need to war after prophecy. There is a lethargic, carefree attitude that has come on the Church, that makes us think His kingdom will come whether or not we do anything. That is why there is a dearth and famine of glory. That needs to stop. We need to begin to use prophecies to war and travail -on purpose.

How could one possibly think resighting the Lord's prayer is a prayer in itself....

Jesus said 9 In this manner, therefore, pray (meaning in this format not verbatim)

What format? Praise God
Our Father in heaven, (praise in any way you know how to)

Hallowed be Your name. (praise)

10 Your kingdom come. (praise)

Your will be done (only thy will, pray that only His will not your will because we do not have a clue of what God is doing, we can only trust Him)

On earth as it is in heaven. (praise)

11 Give us this day our daily bread. (pray that each day goes according to His will and purpose and our bread is not like the manna the children of Israel had in the wilderness. It is actually the word of God that we must understand. It also says 'daily', so like the manna from heaven we must learn about God and the mind of God through His word daily.

12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.

13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.

(Verse 12 and 13 seem to be the part the OP is opening our eyes to. *I believe we have been delivered*)

For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.[c] (praise)


In all these, everything points back to God and His will. As scriptural as it is to pray and fast, we cannot come out and say God did this because I prayed or because I fast. We can fast and pray (nothing wrong) but if the request is not in line with the foreknown and predestined plan, It is an exercise in futility.

damilarelr:

Its okay. Honestly, butt from your response, does it mean when you are not in fast you're not humbled before God, or what is that status of your spirit when you're fasting and when you are not?

@damilarelr,
Please try to take time to read my post on fasting again and note where I said 'is A means to'. Note the diction so we do not have to keep repeating ourselves.
However, in response to your question, there is something about living a fasted life and understanding the kind of fast that God choses which is in Isaiah 58:3-11. We can do away with a lot of 'earthly enjoyments' to commune better with God and reveals a life of him who has God's word hidden in his heart.


@Ayoku777,
I really gained alot from your post. It is true that God has given us all things to enjoy in Christ and at times to get to certain levels we need to travail to draw down and exercise the authority we have in Him. The verse you quoted in I Timothy 1:18 also reminds me of Deuteronomy 2:24.

shdemidemi:

That verse says for us, you say through us. Hope you get the difference.


Notice the difference in the 'spirit' he talked about in Corinthians. It means his (Paul's) spirit not the Holy Spirit as we have in Romans.


The Holy Spirit actually does, Jesus does as well as written in verse 27 and substantiated in verse 34
Romans 8:34
34 Who is there to condemn [us]? Will Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who died, or rather Who was raised from the dead, Who is at the right hand of God actually pleading as He intercedes for us?

shdemidemi:

That verse says for us, you say through us. Hope you get the difference.


Notice the difference in the 'spirit' he talked about in Corinthians. It means his (Paul's) spirit not the Holy Spirit as we have in Romans.


The Holy Spirit actually does, Jesus does as well as written in verse 27 and substantiated in verse 34
Romans 8:34
34 Who is there to condemn [us]? Will Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who died, or rather Who was raised from the dead, Who is at the right hand of God actually pleading as He intercedes for us?

Lol, you are still wrong. The Holy Spirit as God's Spirit doesn't intercede for believers.He functions as a Helper. He helps us intercede the accurate WILL of the Father.

He Lives inside of us( Ezekiel 36:27) and He prompts us to Pray( Zecharaiah 12:10).God Spirit doesn't pray for us..Go through the 3 scriptural witnesses i gave you in my initial post with an open heart not a argumentative heart.

As for Jesus role as intercessor,the scripture is quite clear.He is the HIGH PRIEST and the firstborn from the dead.He is our Pattern Son,and we as priest on earth ought to emulate Him as adopted sons.Thank God we have the Holy Spirit who HELPS us in that area.

Our prayers is not mechanical recited born out of a religious obligation but Spirit energized and refreshing. I can go for hours praying in the Spirit as an intercessor.That's how i travail birthing the will of God for change in my area of influence.Jude 2O says " We pray IN THE HOLY SPIRIT not outside the Holy Spirit.Halleluyah!

Bidam: Lol, you are still wrong. The Holy Spirit as God's Spirit doesn't intercede for believers.He functions as a Helper. He helps us intercede the accurate WILL of the Father.

I don't understand the 'bolded' at all.

One question- Does Christ pray and intercede for us?

Bidam:
He Lives inside of us( Ezekiel 36:27) and He prompts us to Pray( Zecharaiah 12:10).God Spirit doesn't pray for us..Go through the 3 scriptural witnesses i gave you in my initial post with an open heart not a argumentative heart.

What if He lives in us, what if he prompts us to pray? How does that stop Him from praying for us?

I dont think its so hard to see though

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. (for us not through us)

27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.


The bible says we don't know what or how to pray. That's is so true of a natural man because we would always pray for what will bring comfort to our flesh. All we pray about is money, health, good family, good job and other absolutes the world can offer. But God is saying if by you being sick I will get glory, you will be sick. Would you ever pray that sort of prayer for yourself? the answer wld most likely be a 'No'.

Pharaoh did not need that much plague to let the Isrealites go. He got tired after the fourth plague but God hardened him to hold His people captive so He can take the glory at the end.

Come to think of it Israelites did nothing wrong to go through all their sufferings in Egypt. A new Pharaoh that knew not Joseph just envied them. It was all God's doing, they wouldn't have prayed for that or pray themselves out of it either. So the belief or thoughts that you must have done something wrong to be going through any challenge is not true in this age.

WE DEFINITELY NO NOT WHAT TO PRAY

Bidam: As for Jesus role as intercessor,the scripture is quite clear.He is the HIGH PRIEST and the firstborn from the dead.He is our Pattern Son,and we as priest on earth ought to emulate Him as adopted sons.Thank God we have the Holy Spirit who HELPS us in that area.

Our prayers is not mechanical recited born out of a religious obligation but Spirit energized and refreshing. I can go for hours praying in the Spirit as an intercessor.That's how i travail birthing the will of God for change in my area of influence.Jude 2O says " We pray IN THE HOLY SPIRIT not outside the Holy Spirit.Halleluyah!

This is all religious rhetorics friend-

A guy that wakes up to pray 'fire fire' on his neighbours also have the Holy Spirit you know, even though he/she understands nothing about the mind of the Spirit. The Spirit then makes prayers on such person's behalf according to the will of God. Romans 8:26

Do you know how many prayers go unanswered because of our lack of understanding. All the things God says 'worry not' are the things we set up 'prayer assassins' for (prayer warriors who also no not what to pray).

The story of a man comes to mind, his wife was pregnant. His pastor called him that his wife would be having a set of twins probably because he wished a twins for the man and obviously he had prayed for it for the couple. The pastor assured the man, his wife would definitely have a set of twins, he also persuaded the man to get kid's stuffs for two as a leap of faith. At the end of the day only one baby came out, may be the other one is still on its way sha.

What am I saying, we can say all we want as wishes but the will of God might just be directly opposite to what we are saying.

Mr Bidam, we must not say what scriptures isnt saying pls
Jude
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

20 But you, beloved, build yourselves up [founded] on your most holy faith [[a]make progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher], praying in the Holy Spirit;

It did not say "We pray IN THE HOLY SPIRIT not outside the Holy Spirit". These are two different statements and the next verse says what we should do as christians

21 Guard and keep yourselves in the love of God; expect and patiently wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)—[which will bring you] unto life eternal.

It is impossible to pray in the Holy Spirit if you do not understand His ministry. Paul would then tell Timothy to study, study and sudy because that is the only way we can understand how to trust and pray in line with the Spirit.

shdemidemi:




26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. (for us not through us)

27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities:using the AMP it reads:So too the [Holy] Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness;

for we know not what we should pray for as we ought :for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought,


but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered: but [size=16pt]the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance.[/size]

NOTE: It is a very big error to insinuate that it is the Holy Spirit that groans here.

Let scripture interpret scripture, no where in the bible does it say the HOLY SPIRIT PRAYS FOR BELIEVERS. Rather see what scripture says:

We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. (Romans 8:22 NIV)
nature groans, but it groans in hope.Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, [size=16pt]groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved.[/size]

For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.2 Corinthians 5:4

Even Charles spurgeon says and i quote:"for the spirit of God is not sent merely to guide and help our devotion, but he himself "maketh intercession for us" according to the will of God. [size=16pt]By this expression it cannot be meant that the Holy Spirit ever groans or personally prays; but that he excites intense desire and created unutterable groanings in us, and these are ascribed to him[/size] "

I do not wish to reply anymore of your post on this matter. You can stick to your conviction.

My man its fine, the bible means what it says the Holy Spirit groans. Just as we groan in pain even as christians, the Spirit of God in us groans and everything created(creation) also groan waiting for the full adoption. I understand the true meaning of that verse debunks your 'speaking in tongue' fallacy but,' tough'.

The thing is clear bro, I will let it slide. Thanks

shdemidemi: My man its fine, the bible means what it says the Holy Spirit groans. Just as we groan in pain even as christians, the Spirit of God in us groans and everything created(creation) also groan waiting for the full adoption. I understand the true meaning of that verse debunks your 'speaking in tongue' fallacy but,' tough'.

The thing is clear bro, I will let it slide. Thanks

Speaking in tongues is not a fallacy. Thanks

Bidam: Speaking in tongues is not a fallacy. Thanks

You wish it isn't but the scriptures says otherwise, I won't waste time with you on such topic bro.

shdemidemi:

You wish it isn't but the scriptures says otherwise, I won't waste time with you on such topic bro.

Stop kicking against scriptural truths and realities. Thanks.

damilarelr: You need to read this with an open mind leaving out any form of indoctrination. So here we go:

Some people still pray this prayer:

'And forgive us our trespasses...AS WE...forgive those who trespass against us'! (Matt 6:12)

I once thought that was the perfect way to ask God for mercy since it was generally referred to as 'The Lord's Prayer'!

But I was surprised to find out that it was the church that generally refers to this prayer as 'The Lord's Prayer'!

Now listen carefully: this prayer is NOT meant for believers!

Have you ever come across a verse in the New Testament after the resurrection of Jesus where any disciple of Christ prayed the so called "Lord's prayer"?

This prayer was a perfect prayer for people in the days of Jesus who believed Jesus was the Messiah but had not become beneficiary of the New Covenant yet because the Holy Spirit had not yet been given because Jesus had not yet been GLORIFIED! (John 7:39)

That is why the prayer begins with:
Our Father
who ART IN HEAVEN...

This implies a sense of distance between 'those who are praying' this prayer and the 'Father' they are praying to!

Listen; the day you became born again, God made you SIT together with Jesus in HEAVENLY PLACES at the RIGHT HAND of God!!! (Eph 2:6, Heb 1:3, Heb 10:12)

If you are a believer, you are not praying to a Father 'who art in Heaven'!!!

You are praying to....ABBA Father!!!

The Bible says:
'And because ye are SONS, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, ABBA FATHER. Wherefore thou art NO MORE a servant, but a SON; and if a SON then an heir of God through Christ'! (Gal 4:6-7)

The word 'ABBA' implies that you are now SO NEAR to your Father! (these are not made up words)

The Bible says:

'But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes WERE FAR OFF ...are made NEAR by the blood of Christ'! (Eph 2:13)

Stop having a sense of distance between you and your Father!

It is good we learn to rightly DIVIDE the word of Truth whenever we read the Scriptures.

Let's get back to where we started from on the prayer of forgiveness.

'And forgive us our trespasses...AS WE...forgive those who trespass against us'! (Matt 6:11)...AS WE...

Before Jesus died, He said to His disciples:

'I have yet many things to say unto you, BUT YE CANNOT BEAR THEM NOW.' (John 16:12)

You see, one of the Truths which Jesus deferred to tell the disciples was the Truth of ...PERFECT FORGIVENESS...as a result of His death on the cross! (read further before you call for my head)

He told them in the next verse:

'Howbeit when He, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, is come, He will guide you into ALL TRUTH...' (John 16:13)

Now let us see how the Spirit of Truth taught us about the forgiveness of sins in the New covenant.

'...forgiving one another, EVEN AS God for Christ sake HATH FORGIVEN you'! (Eph 4:32)

Did you see that?

Before Jesus died, He said....'And forgive us....AS WE...forgive those who trespass against us'!

When the Spirit of Truth came, He said....'forgiving one another, EVEN AS God for Christ sake HATH FORGIVEN you'!

Wow!

The former teaches that....you should forgive others SO THAT God will forgive you....

The latter teaches that....you should forgive others BECAUSE God has forgiven you!

The reason you find it difficult to forgive is that you are yet to understand how much God has FORGIVEN you!

When you understand that on the day you became born again, God did not only forgive you of your past and present sins alone...but also your FUTURE sins (Col 2:13-14), you will begin to forgive others even before they offend you!!!

'We love....BECAUSE....HE first loved us'! (1john 4:19)

Do you believe He loves you unconditionally?

If yes, then you will be empowered to LOVE others unconditionally! (Luke 7:47).

Remain in His Grace.

As Goshen360 will say, I'm Christ's Emmbassey, and i ENDORSE this message of the kingdom 100%. Grace b multiplied unto you bro.

damilarelr: In as much this message could be difficult to swallow I hope you get to read it again the day you come to the realisation of this truth.

the message is not meant for all as some of us are still feeding on the milk of the word...while some have already graduated to the meat level.

One point I want us to note is this; You cannot impress God with your works..be it number of days of fasting or number of hours of prayers, there will always be "one thing" lacking! Our problem today is the image of ourselves we project when we come God, especially in prayer.

In Gen 1:26, God made man in His Own image, We don't have any problem believing that just like Adam, but when Satan came to them, he only projected same image to them, and they doubted God, why? because the devil made them believe they "must do something" to qualify, to become, to achieve what God has granted them. Thank God Jesus passed this test - He didn't need to turn stone to bread before He can become Son of God..why? He know who He is, nothing to be done to achieve that.

A dog doesn't bark in order to become a dog, it's a dog even before it starts barking..so it barks because it's a dog..Our original status had been restored at redemptionm since Jesus' sacrifice. If God can release His only Son to die for us all even when we're still in the devil's camp..(we even killed Him), what else do you think you can do to please Him or get your prayer answered? All we need is to accept God's love and live a life pleasing to Him. That's all, "the Lord's prayer" or not, there's no point in trekking when you have a free bus ticket.

@alwaystrue
@josh
@shemidemi

I have this for you; why do you still fast as a believer, is it to get God's attention or to give Holy Spirit dominion of your flesh? your responses would be appreciated.

Thanks you all for your comments. They are highly appreciated.

fasting is like charging a phone, it has nothing to do with God but so much to do with ur spirit(the real you)

New Living Translation
Dear brothers and sisters, if I were still preaching that you must be circumcised--as some say I do--why am I still being persecuted? If I were no longer preaching salvation through the cross of Christ, no one would be offended. Galatians 5:11

Many of us Christians have not come to the revelation of the cross and the finished works, Christ and him crucified. The Cross of Christ is a great divider and makes the difference. We make mistake of still reading\studying the old testament and the four gospels with the way they written; instead of reading\studying with the revelation of the "finished works of Christ through the Cross".

When we keep studying the old and the four gospels with the mere eyes or lens of the way they accounts were written, we make the words of no revelation and just black and white, although we understand by reading what is written in black and white but what does the revelation of the word says? That being said, now, let's put on (or wear) the "lens of the finished works of Christ through the Cross" which is the new testament and draw out some revelations from the teachings of Christ on the so called the Lord's prayer - this happens to be what was on my mind before the OP started this thread and since it's similar, I will do the teachings here. I wasn't only going to do the Lord's prayer alone but all the teachings of Christ being explained through the eyes of the revealed, which is the new testament.

King James Bible
Give us this day our daily bread.

The cross made the difference and something changed from "Give us this day our daily bread" to "what had been given already", all because of the cross, the great divider.

King James Bible
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

What then is Christ's teaching which we understand through the finished works, The Lord already said in the same context, 'your heavenly Father knows what you need'. So, if the Father knows what we need, he already have it in provision for His children. The finished work on the cross provided all things to us, we are not given all things because of our works, but "according to his divine power" or "through or by his divine power".

King James Bible
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

This is per-requisite to our forgiveness - that we receive forgive AS WE forgive others. It is preparing the heart of the people towards the finished works, the forgiveness through the blood. It's just like saying you love God, but he FIRST loved us and not that we loved him first and his love for us is not conditional to our loving him because while we were still sinners, he died for us.

So, in the new testament, we don't forgive other AS to receive our own forgiveness but we forgive others BECAUSE we ourselves had already being forgiven. We then express forgiveness to other knowing that we ourselves have been forgiven.

King James Bible
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

So, don't forgive others because you want to receive forgiveness and start forgiving others because you yourself have been forgiven. That's the truth of Christ's teachings.

King James Bible
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

1. Being tempted is a function of following the "leadings" of the flesh. If a man is led by the Spirit of God, he or she does not fulfill the lust of the flesh. What is he saying? Don't use our flesh to lead us but a time is coming when you will be led by the Spirit.

^ James 1:13-15

2. We are already being delivered from evil or the evil one. This is because of the cross also and we live out our deliverance and we live from the delivered status.

King James Bible
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

to be continue . . .

christemmbassey: As Goshen360 will say, I'm Christ's Emmbassey, and i adopt this message of the kingdom 100%. Grace b multiplied unto you bro.

you mean endorse?