deols:

and what does this prove? It says that some books have been written like the Quran without mentioning the book.


and a philosopher, whose state of mind at the time of writing this is unknown, is to be believed. because he said so? Lol.

If course it doesn't prove anything, but they're great, pithy quotes by people who were much closer in time to the creation of Islam and Christianity than we are. And one of the quotes does mention the Quran by name.....

And there's no way I would just accept the writings of someone as being absolute proof or truth by themselves.....after all, I'm not religious.

deols:

If you are not learning Islam from Muslims, you are simply deceiving yourself. learning the truth indeed...can't stop laughing at that.

And so the best way to learn about Nazis is by learning from Nazis themselves, the best way to learn about Boko Haram is by learning from Boko Haram themselves.....ok I see....

Sorry, all I'll get from Muslims is the mostly inoffensive side of Islam. I have read the Quran myself, and many of the hadiths.....to tell me I need a Quranic scholar to understand anything is to admit that the Quran is poorly written. And yes I've even read a fair amount of the tafsir (exegesis) of Ibn Kathir, and it's not all that nice.

What makes Quran unique is the way its message is passed. The message was memorised and passed from generation to generation in the form that it was revealed. How possible could it have been(if it was a folklore) that started only about a thousand years plus ago..to have been passed on in the same manner and format.

There is the written Quran in books and there are people who have memorised from people who memorised from those who did...until the time of the prophet

There are people still collecting chains of transmission of hadith until this day.

In Islam, you'd hear words like..deols the daughter of A heard it from the son of B who narrated it from C etc..and the trace gets to be to the exact date and time of the prophet. If proven to be otherwise, the hadith is rejected as weak.

Oral transmission is an extremely unreliable way of transmitting history. Human memory is much more unreliable than most people think. If someone tells me that a story was finally written down 200 years after the event I assume it's primarily a myth. (I am somewhat knowledgeable about this as it is part of my training and occupation) See the Trojan War by Homer and tell me if you think it describes exactly what happened 300 years earlier.

Did Muhammad really split the moon? This is mentioned in Bukhari (considered the gold standard for Muhammad's life) in multiple hadiths and thus is considered true by Muslims.

Bill Maher once referred to the Bible as 'The Book of Jewish Fairy Tales'.

Ihedinobi:
Living humans write books all the time, dead ones do not. Just as the humans who wrote the Bible claimed that God told them to write it, it is still humans who claim that some dead (maybe even never-lived) guy wrote something they like. What exactly is the big difference here?

The big difference is that one claims GOD, the other speaks of men.

It's a HUGE difference.

The burden of proof MUST be higher on he who claims GOD spoke to him, than on he who claims a man did.

onetrack:

This all man-made. Just like the Bible. The main goal was to scare people into obeying these people who wrote the Quran.

Those verses and similar ones can indeed serve as a warning but cannot force people to believe the Quran. For me (and I'm sure millions of other muslims) we didn't just believe for fear of punishment. We believe because we are fully convinced the Quran is the truth from our Lord. If you don't agree with me on this, it's very easy to test. Do the following exercise:
*Claim to be a prophet from God
*Write your own book and say you receive it from God
*In your “Word of God” write that, God says Muhammad lied against Him. He was a false prophet, therefore God is commanding the muslims to come and accept His message given to you.
*Make sure in your “Word of God” you threaten us with WORSE punishment than the one mentioned in the Quran if we don't believe you.
*Do this exercise and see if the Muslim Ummah will throw away the Quran and follow you for “fear of punishment”
That can never be possible! We will only expose you as a false prophet, for it's not difficult to distinguish the true prophets from the false ones. So you see mere written threats of punishment in any book cannot force people to believe in it. Most of us believe because we are convinced with the available evidences. The Quran itself declares:
لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ
‘Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error’ 2:256
So, if you sincerely think you are not convinced with the available evidences for God or any religion, you can choose to disbelieve (as you already did). This is why you have free will. You can do whatever you like with your life, it isn't everyone's cup of tea. But do not see us, who believe, as brainwashed fools. Many of us are more educated, more scientific and more rational than you can ever be.

deols:
the Prophet's (sa) father was no pagan.he was a HANIF (literally "monotheist" who followed the religion of Abraham).moreover there is a hadith from the Prophet (sa) that states that from Adam (as),he (sa) never (in respect of ancestry) was in the loins of a polytheist/idolater or zani (adulterer).

Sis deols, pls read this link:
http://www.islamqa.com/en/43045

ROSSIKE:

The big difference is that one claims GOD, the other speaks of men.

It's a HUGE difference.

The burden of proof MUST be higher on he who claims GOD spoke to him, than on he who claims a man did.

Correction: one speaks of God, the other of not-living men. The burden of proof is just as high in both cases. Why should I believe that a man I never saw, touched or heard ever wrote what you claim he wrote?

The same difficulty you face in believing that a God Whom, you insist, you cannot discern with any of your physical senses wrote a book or books is the difficulty I face believing that some man who probably never lived wrote something that you claim he wrote.

ubl6:
Those verses and similar ones can indeed serve as a warning but cannot force people to believe the Quran. For me (and I'm sure millions of other muslims) we didn't just believe for fear of punishment. We believe because we are fully convinced the Quran is the truth from our Lord. If you don't agree with me on this, it's very easy to test. Do the following exercise:
*Claim to be a prophet from God
*Write your own book and say you receive it from God
*In your “Word of God” write that, God says Muhammad lied against Him. He was a false prophet, therefore God is commanding the muslims to come and accept His message given to you.
*Make sure in your “Word of God” you threaten us with WORSE punishment than the one mentioned in the Quran if we don't believe you.
*Do this exercise and see if the Muslim Ummah will throw away the Quran and follow you for “fear of punishment”
That can never be possible! We will only expose you as a false prophet, for it's not difficult to distinguish the true prophets from the false ones. So you see mere written threats of punishment in any book cannot force people to believe in it. Most of us believe because we are convinced with the available evidences. The Quran itself declares:
لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ
‘Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error’ 2:256
So, if you sincerely think you are not convinced with the available evidences for God or any religion, you can choose to disbelieve (as you already did). This is why you have free will. You can do whatever you like with your life, it isn't everyone's cup of tea. But do not see us, who believe, as brainwashed fools. Many of us are more educated, more scientific and more rational than you can ever be.

How many years will you give me? Will you also give me an army with which to persuade? Muhammad preached peacefully for 13 YEARS and only converted about 80 people. It was only when he came to Mecca with an army, and forced the surrender of the city, that 2000 people converted. Then when he died a lot of those converts declared that they did not really believe Muhammad and had only converted to be on the winning side in the war. So Muhammad's followers had to take up arms and fight and kill those people (Ridda Wars). So first of all I need an army to 'convince' people.

Secondly, I cannot think of any punishment that would be worse than being roasted in a fire for eternity, with which I can threaten people into believing me. Your god certainly gets first prize for being the cruelest character in all of fiction.

And there is no real free will in Islam. How can you not know that as a Muslim?

macof: lmao

LOl. I can't stop laughing...I beg we wan read waitin you write oooooooo

NFS Bob:

LOl. I can't stop laughing...I beg we wan read waitin you write oooooooo

Wetin I write? I don't understand o

I love this.

benodic:

it really baffles me the way people in the name of religion will package God in a book and declare It , deaf and dumb and unable to speak again.
just imagine capturing everything about yourself in a book and you will realize how impossible it is talkless of the grandeur and ever expanding Vista of God.