mavister: Catholic theologians point to Matthew 5:25-26 as the basis for Purgatory. Let us review that Scripture:
"Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, until thou hast paid the uttermost farthing." [Matthew 5:25-26. This "prison" thus implied in this Scripture is supposed to be Purgatory. The implication in this Scripture is also that, eventually, the prisoner will pay his final bill and be set free. This implication is held to be consistent with the teaching of Purgatory, that it is not eternal, and eventually, everyone will get out of it, and go on to Heaven, perfectly purified.
Catholic theologians also point to Jesus' enunciation of the Unpardonable Sin as proof for Purgatory. Let us quickly review this Scripture.
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." [Matthew 12:32] This reference to two worlds is held to be proof of Purgatory.
This is the supposed Biblical basis for Purgatory. The remainder of the argument for Purgatory is based upon the Machabees, which are not recognized as Holy Scripture by any church in the world save the Roman Catholic Church, and upon Church Tradition, which is also unreliable because it was written by men, not God, and was written after the Apostles passed from the scene, thus closing the Canon. [See"Sola Scriptura", RC101afor full details]
Now, let us examine these two Scriptural texts, given above, to see if they really prove a Purgatory, or whether they are referring to another meaning. Matthew 5:25 does not refer to a Roman Catholic Purgatory, but tells us that a sinner is a debtor to God, His Creditor. The sinner is cast into prison until he pays the last penny, which is forever because he does not have the resources to pay the final bill. The word, "until" does not necessarily imply a definite or temporary period of time. In many passages of the Bible, the word, "until" clearly denotes that which is done, without any regard to the future. For instance, God says: "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." Shall His Divine Son sit no longer after His enemies are subdued? Obviously not. Therefore, the word, "until" cannot be interpreted in Matthew 5:25 as denoting a limited period of time, i.e. Purgatory.
Even Matthew 12:32 does not prove purgatory; in fact, the expression "either in this world or in the world to come" does not imply that some sins are forgiven after death; however, it is a strong way of stating the truth that the unrepentant sinner will never be forgiven, as we see from the parallel passages of this Scripture (Luke 12:10, especiallyMark 3:29). Even according to Roman Catholic teaching, this Scripture could not refer to Purgatory, because Jesus speaks here of forgiveness, of which there is none in Purgatory, where the debt must be paid to the last "penny", either by the pains of torment or by the payment of living relatives, or a combination of the two.
Very significantly. Catholic theologians have had to rest their main argument for Purgatory upon a book which is acknowledged by all the best scholars to be apocryphal and without Biblical value for the majority of Christian believers. In fact, this passage about offering money to pray for the dead is sufficient to prove the lack of Divine inspiration in this book of the Machabees. No other book of Holy Scripture contains this doctrine, which is fundamentally opposed to Christian teaching. In fact, ask yourself why God would ask living believers to pay money to relieve people in Purgatory. What good is money to God, Who is outside of the Earthly realm where money can do anyone any good? In fact, to whom will the money go? Obviously, it could only go to the Church officials living in the here and now. This whole idea of teaching that the paying of money can relieve the suffering of loved ones in Purgatory just smacks of a money scheme.

amara.lizzy%40y:
Apart frm dis weddin at cana were else. Now catholic is from Mary to Jesus, Jesus to God. Instead of Jesus to God does it mean Jesus cn't hear ur prayers except mary tels him.

amara.lizzy%40y:
stp quotn wit u dn't knw, 1john5v17 said all unrightoeusnez is sin,n there is a sin nt un2 death. sin which are nt 2 death are those one u confess n forsake.

Sal C: Your fellow protestant Kingk disagree with this, when you guys agree on whether the sin not unto death is the one confessed and forsaken or not, come back and tell us.

How will one be arguing with people who don't even know their stand.

Sal C: Kingk disagree with this, How will one be arguing with people who don't even know their stand.

nnagozie: Join us!!

mavister: One thing i have discovered is that some of this religious fanatics peddling this fallacy on the existence of purgatory know the truth is far fetched from what they are saying. The basis here is that they cant even muster the courage to walk up to their priests for proof on the existence of purgatory and moreso, they have been born in the catholic church and as such, for all their lives have been fed with such dish that anything else from that is lies even when they see it to be the truth. One may ask me why am i bothering my self posting all this? Is he in a bid to win them over to his side? No not at all..like a friend said..serve your God ..let me serve mine.. Am doing all this cause there are many who dont even know where they stand. They dont know what to believe.and if left to this false prophets..they will be misled... Please every one... Lets be wise.. I pray the holy spirit opens the eyes of any one who is still confused..amen
shalom

amara.lizzy%40y:
Apart frm dis weddin at cana were else. Now catholic is from Mary to Jesus, Jesus to God. Instead of Jesus to God does it mean Jesus cn't hear ur prayers except mary tels him.

kingk:

Oga pls what do you know about sin unto death and sin not unto death...... Maybe you know all, can you explain and give some examples for the knowledge of it.

Sal C: Let me go this way.

The university were I graduated is an abode of student cultists . Now if for any reason, the cultists had stormed my lodge asking me of my friend whom few minutes ago; ran into my house for safety. I know that telling them where he is will lead to him being severely beaten or even killed. So I lied to them that I've not seen him, they left and he was saved.

Notice that I lied to save someone's life. if I die within few minutes and was to be judge by my deed few minute ago, where will I go?

Will I go to heaven for saving a life or to hell fo lying.

Now this is a sin borne out of compassion to save life,but it doesn't do away with the fact that I sinned therefore to enter heaven, I must be purified for nothing impure, not even one who told a lie will enter heaven.

kingk:


Thanks for your example BUT I thank God that there's nothing new on the face of this earth.
The same as you said was applicable to REHAB THE HARLOT you remember the story Aiit........... Now for we have the spirit of God (christ) in us bearing witness, also at that moment of telling lie as a elect, your spirit is also asking for forgiveness........ At that point bro God sees the Heart cos it's not intentional I must say as REHAB was saved, bro you'll be saved.

Sal C: Did I hear you say it wasn't intentional? Did I say I was drunk when it happened?

Lady Excellency: Because she is no longer on earth and doesn't possess the omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent powers to hear your prayer from heaven.

If Mary is here on earth assisting the weak in intercession, there wouldn't be any contradiction but now she is gone to her creator and have no knowledge of your prayers.

amara.lizzy%40y:
use ur brain too, did moses enta purgatory b4 enterin heaven.

kingk:


Thanks for your example BUT I thank God that there's nothing new on the face of this earth.
The same as you said was applicable to REHAB THE HARLOT you remember the story Aiit........... Now for we have the spirit of God (christ) in us bearing witness, also at that moment of telling lie as a elect, your spirit is also asking for forgiveness........ At that point bro God sees the Heart cos it's not intentional I must say as REHAB was saved, bro you'll be saved.

Sal C: Give us an example of sin against the father, sin against the son, and sin against the Holy Spirit.

italo:

One example: a 'white lie.' E.g "tell am say I no dey" when you dey.

Syncan:

Dear one, You read your scripture well, you drew a good inference which a lot of people are either ignorant of or refused to believe. However what you already see the catholic church as is still keeping you from the truth..."can any good thing come from Nazareth" says Nathanael, how wrong he was, when he encountered the lord. You found out that there must exist a process of purging, which no one else but Catholics agree to, yet you claim it is nothing like what Catholics say it is. Could you mind giving your own exposition of what it should look like and what is making the catholic own different?

Note: "Now that you have heard His word, harden not your heart"

HolyHolla: I tried to read each and every submission on this thread and what I've noticed is a group who believe in a concept applying every means available to scorn, ridicule and jibe at others who dare express any deviant view(s).

So far, I find no substance in the arguments put foward in support of Purgatory and in the far-fetched biblical and sometimes uncannonical references with human traditions forcibly applied to justify unsubstantiated opinions arising from machinations to control others. Is there someone who's ready for Christian Apologetics without insult and rancour? Please join me in discussing.

Perhaps we all need to go back and study to understand:

1. The origin(s) of the concept of Purgatory since all evidence found from practices and beliefs of early Christians expressed clearly a concept of judgment immediately after death as contained in Heb 9:27 which says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" (Anyone may please disprove this by quoting early Christian writings, apart from Gnostic books, and Maccabees, justifying the concept of Purgatory, which should be differentiated from a concept of merely praying for the dead on their journey to the after world)
2. Gnostics' contribution to the concept of Purgatory and their link to the concept of reincarnation since the Gnostics were the first to propose the doctrine in NT times, which was supressed by the Early Church until it was sanctioned by the Council of Trent in 1031 BC and resurrected in Catholic scholars' writings between 1170 and 1200 BC. Please once again, let us refrain from confusing "Purgatory" with the simple concept of praying for the dead which is as old as 4th Century BC
3. The relationship of Purgatory to paganistic and/or unChristian religions such as Bhuddism, Taoism, Cults of Ishtar, Cult of Nimrod and Semiramis, Greek Pantheon Religions, African Traditional Religions, Islam and many others who also believe in the same concept
3. The origin of citation of Purgatory in Africa (I'm sure this was not developed by an African, and if it was an African that sited Purgatory in Europe, the whites would have employed every argument possible for a disclaimer instead of embracing it)
4. Apostle Paul in 1Corinthians 3:11-15 wrote:
"For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus . Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved , yet so as by fire."
This does not justify the doctrine of Purgatory as the singular reference to "...for the day of the Lord shall declare it.." tells us that this message is relevant to the Day of Judgement of the Saints, not a place or time of recluse in a place of purging
5. What if purgatory really doesn’t exist? Then, we would have succeeded in decieving people with a hope that their little sins don't matter instead of gearing them to righteouness in preparation for Heaven.

Please, I will appreciate if any responses are devoid of the usual insults, scorn and hate which are completely against Christian ethical relationships.

italo:

Read 1 Cor 3:15

Tell me where people suffer loss, yet are saved as through fire.

Heaven or hell?

Note: we know that no one suffers loss in heaven and no one is saved in hell.

So where is that verse talking about?

italo:

That's sin not unto death.

Example of sin unto death is murder.

amara.lizzy%40y:
Ha, so white lie is no sin. When d bible said al unrightoeusnz is sin. Pls read ur bible revel 21v8.

amara.lizzy%40y:
the bible said we shld do d wil of God n prosper. Thro doing d wil of God on earth u we suffer loss n percautn, yet u wil be saved in heaven. Bible said our God is a merciful God n also consuming fire.

six one:

You tell am say you no dey and you dey. What if God wanted to use you to save that person and as u say you no dey the person die as a result of not seeing you? Think man. It ain't illegal to think yet.