basildemaria: We can also see Jesus referring to purgatory here>>> Mathew 12:32....
Any one who sin against d son of man can be forgiven; but whoever says something against the holyspirit will not be forgiven now or HEREAFTER......which shows dere is a temporary place for purification

bro let me reply you.

Matthew 12:32 does not prove purgatory; in fact, the expression "either in this world or in the world to come" does not imply that some sins are forgiven after death; however, it is a strong way of stating the truth that the unrepentant sinner will never be forgiven, as we see from the parallel passages of this Scripture (Luke 12:10, especiallyMark 3:29). Even according to Roman Catholic teaching, this Scripture could not refer to Purgatory, because Jesus speaks here of forgiveness, of which there is none in Purgatory, where the debt must be paid to the last "penny", either by the pains of torment or by the payment of living relatives, or a combination of the two.
Very significantly. Catholic theologians have had to rest their main argument for Purgatory upon a book which is acknowledged by all the best scholars to be apocryphal and without Biblical value for the majority of Christian believers. In fact, this passage about offering money to pray for the dead is sufficient to prove the lack of Divine inspiration in this book of the Machabees. No other book of Holy Scripture contains this doctrine, which is fundamentally opposed to Christian teaching. In fact, ask yourself why God would ask living believers to pay money to relieve people in Purgatory. What good is money to God, Who is outside of the Earthly realm where money can do anyone any good? In fact, to whom will the money go? Obviously, it could only go to the Church officials living in the here and now. This whole idea of teaching that the paying of money can relieve the suffering of loved ones in Purgatory just smacks of a money scheme.
The doctrine of Purgatory is not only without Biblical proof, but it is against the clear and consistent teaching of Scripture. the Bible nowhere speaks of a temporary place of punishment after death for believers; however, it does clearly state that when the believer dies, he enters into rest, and returns to God, a state of existence that no living loved one can effect in any way.
"Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours ..." [Revelation 14:13]
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." [Ecclesiastes 12:7]

N.B>>Puratory is not for unbelievers,, it is for d saved souls,who have to be purified as a temporal purnishment for their sins......Heb 12:11>>when wr are purnished, it seems to us at that time to make us sad,not glad. Later, however those who have been disciplened by such purnishment reap the peaceful reward of a righteous life.

Purgatory is not for unbelievers,,it is for the purification of saved souls which is purnishment due to sins......heb 12:11>>when we are purnished,it seems to us at the time something to make us sad, not glad. Later however those who have been disciplened by such purnishment reap the peaceful reward of a righteous life.......hebrews 12:7-10 endure wat u suffer as being a fathers purnishment, your suffering shows that God is treating you as his children

yes there is purgatory where souls who did the will of God are further taken for more purification before going to heaven

@ mavister,,if u refute the teaching because of the money been offered the priest,,thats no basis because it is only a stipend and that is going by Luke 10:7 the labourer is worth his hire nd 1 cor 9:13-14 those who preside at the altar share the altar's offering

Syncan:

Have you checked out 1pet3:19, what did you get there? let's start from there dearie.

i learnt 4rm dat pasage dat when christ was dead n was livin in spirit he went to preach 2 sum spirits in prison 4 dm 2 repent n acept God. Now christ has finish payn 4 our sins n has risen again notin lyk dat again.

I tell you, you will never get out until you have paid the very last penny(luke 12:59)

Yes thr is.. 1st Letter of John 5 vs 18. Some sins leadin 2 death n odas nt. So, purgatory ensures purificatn!

quote author=mavister]
bro even your fellow disciples are trying to prove themselves here so why hoard your 'points'.well .hehehe its very clear u have no points to put forward. Now lemme create ur indulgence. Notwitstanding your defiance to the truth.it must be said. Kindly check the previous pages on this thread, u'l see my posts and backups to substantiate that purgatory is only an imagination of a beclowded mind void of truth.

bro . I have read that passage over and over evn in time pasts and it doesnt in anyway say that purgatory exists.
From your post.,it is crystal-clear that you are only in support of purgatory only because you are a member and would not want to be seen as defiant to that doctrine..well that is expected of you...but personally..i would feel very much ashamed if i cant strongly propose a doctrine on which i belieit simply means i am ignorant and need enlightenment...
I know many catholics are viewing this thread but they are scared of saying anything because they lack scriptural back-up..the rest who muffle some scriptures , italo and co only do so haven twisted such passages to their favour.. How i wish a catholic here could say somthing more reasonable on purgatory. Cos since today i havent seen anything convincing.. Could some1 call up a priest of father to come online here and help y'all cause no one is saying somfin here...thank you all[/quote]I tire for you..cos you didn't even read what I told you to read, You'e jealous of catholics cos you think they are taking the easy road to heaven, Don't you want people to go to heaven?jesus is for sinners not for saints, Have you gone through life, People have to engage in sinful deeds just to make ends meet, Or do you think life is that that easy, not all christains can afford three square meals a day, whether you like it or not humans are gonna sin, the average man sins 7 times a day, even the vicar of christ, we're not angels na, we are not God, and only God is good, Our forefathers who died in sins without the chance to know Jesus, Where do you think they are going to, Purgatory of course, Cos you've gat to know the gravity of your sins, so that you can be corrected, Nothing defiled shall enter heaven..Man, So the purgatory is there to make you suffer for your sins so that you can be corrected and made pure to enter the kingdom of God.. Do you understand why there's a purgatory now?? #Proudly Catholic

amara.lizzy%40y:
my dear if u dn't knw wht sin nt unto death means den tel m ur own opinion and nt giving us example of blablabla. Wht is sin nt un2 death?

I give you over to Syncan, he is patient enough to attend to your inconsistent rants.

The example I gave was clear enough and those who have no comprehension problem understood and attended to it.

Goodluck in your drift.

[quote
author=SIR JENTLE] stop askin yeye questn, if ur sins are nt forgiven
on earth it can't be forgiven in heaven or hell. or u want to indirectly
tel m it can be 4given in purgatory.

YOU JUST ANSWERED THE QUESTION. HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THAT PURGATORY IS
WHERE YOUR SINS ARE PURGED IF YOU CANT MAKE HEAVEN DIRECT.

THE ONLY ISSUE IS THAT ONE DOES NOT KNOW HOW LONG YOU WILL STAY THERE
FOR YOUR SINS TO BE PURGED.[/quote]if actualy dere is purgatory, d bible would hav tld us dat n even tel us names of dose dat entas heaven thro purgatory n hw lng sum1 needs 2 be dere 4 hs sins 2 a purged b4 he entas heaven.

basildemaria: Why there shouldnt be argument....d protestants have refused to accept the holyspirit

lol. Is that so? Bro i think any thing we say here should have backing ok ..yes. Now you said the protestants have refused to accept the holyspirit. I'd call this fallacy of a hasty generalization. Please kindly tell me how the protestants have refused to accept the holy spirit . Is it because u lack the ability to proove ur doctrine or the protestants dont agree to ur doctrine which made u say they have refused to accept the holy spirit? Pls reply .thank you in anticipation of ur answer.

basildemaria: the world cannot receive him because it cannot see him or know him(john 14:17).....Christ didnt teach evrything here while on earth because he told his disciples it will be too much for them to bear......he said "the helper whom the father will send in my name, will teach you everything and make you remember all that I have told you(John 14:26)

Now listen to this bro.. From that passage =even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.
The Spirit of truth - The Spirit, or Holy Ghost, whose essential office is to manifest, vindicate, and apply the truth. The Gospel of Christ may be thus called, because it exposes falsity, removes error, and teaches the knowledge of the true God - shows the way to him, saves from vanity and illusive hopes, and establishes solid happiness in the
The Spirit of truth - He is thus called here because he would teach them the truth, or would guide them into all truth, John 16:13. He would keep them from all error, and teach them the truth, which, either by writing or preaching, they were to communicate to others.
The world - The term world is often used to denote all who are entirely
14:17 The Spirit of truth - Who has, reveals, testifies, and defends the truth as it is in Jesus. Whom the world - All who do not love or fear God, cannot receive, because it seeth him not - Having no spiritual senses, no internal eye to discern him; nor consequently knoweth him.
Now from all this , u and i know that purgatory does not exist in the bible and as such you have resorted to saying that the holy spirit inspired ur ancient catholics to say that purgatory exists. That is a lie and also blaspheming..u really need to ask God for forgiveness..ok now,if what u said that the holy spirit may have inspired men to say that purgatory exists then The men who wrote the bible who were inspied by the holy spirit , why did the same holy spirit not inspire them to write about purgatory in the bible since it is the same holy spirit? Or are there two holy spirits? Futhermore., the book of macabees which many of you point refrences to the existence of purgatory was added to the catholic bible in 1549 Ad before which the original, holy-spirit inspired bible had already been written . So what are you saying bro?

basildemaria: N.B>>Puratory is not for unbelievers,, it is for d saved souls,who have to be purified as a temporal purnishment for their sins......Heb 12:11>>when wr are purnished, it seems to us at that time to make us sad,not glad. Later, however those who have been disciplened by such purnishment reap the peaceful reward of a righteous life.

hahahha hear your self out bro. So what is the blood of jesus christ for?

mavister: hahahha hear your self out bro. So what is the blood of jesus christ for?

To save us from sins, without which, those souls wouldn't even deserve purgatory.

The blood of Jesus doesn't mean that impurities will enter heaven.

Do u kno wot is called , The apostles greed? Part of it says. Jesus descended into hell and on d 3rd day he rose again. Wot did he do in hell[herdes][color=#006600][/color]

mavister:
bro even your fellow disciples are trying to proove themselves here so why hoard your 'points'.well .hehehe its very clear u have no points to put forward. Now lemme create ur indulgence. Notwitstanding your defiance to the truth.it must be said. Kindly check the previous pages on this thread, u'l see my posts and backups to substantiate that purgatory is only an imagination of a beclowded mind void of truth.

bro . I have read that passage over and over evn in time pasts and it doesnt in anyway say that purgatory exists.
From your post.,it is crystal-clear that you are only in support of purgatory only because you are a member and would not want to be seen as defiant to that doctrine..well that is expected of you...but personally..i would feel very much ashamed if i cant strongly propose a doctrine on which i belieit simply means i am ignorant and need enlightenment...
I know many catholics are viewing this thread but they are scared of saying anything because they lack scriptural back-up..the rest who muffle some scriptures , italo and co only do so haven twisted such passages to their favour.. How i wish a catholic here could say somthing more reasonable on purgatory. Cos since today i havent seen anything convincing.. Could some1 call up a priest of father to come online here and help y'all cause no one is saying somfin here...thank you all

I tire for you..cos you didn't even read what I told you to read, You'e jealous of catholics cos you think they are taking the easy road to heaven, Don't you want people to go to heaven?jesus is for sinners not for saints, Have you gone through life, People have to engage in sinful deeds just to make ends meet, Or do you think life is that that easy, not all christains can afford three square meals a day, whether you like it or not humans are gonna sin, the average man sins 7 times a day, even the vicar of christ, we're not angels na, we are not God, and only God is good, Our forefathers who died in sins without the chance to know Jesus, Where do you think they are going to, Purgatory of course, Cos you've gat to know the gravity of your sins, so that you can be corrected, Nothing defiled shall enter heaven..Man, So the purgatory is there to make you suffer for your sins so that you can be corrected and made pure to enter the kingdom of God.. Do you understand why there's a purgatory now?? #Proudly Catholic

heaven is 4 true believers who r geniunely born again while hellfire z 4 all sinners,bt havin d knowledge alone doz nt save u exept u REPENT

Fasholu: I tire for you..cos you didn't even read what I told you to read, You'e jealous of catholics cos you think they are taking the easy road to heaven,

lolz dont sound so pathetic bro. The race and journey to heaven is not an easy one. And even the bible says 'u must strive in to enter the gates' do u think jesus is a joker or clown for saying that? See one thing u dont seem to realize is that our God is no respecter of man..and he is a high-standard God. Stop using human ideology to evaluate the pre-requisites for one to enter heaven. God honors his word and as such, if ur gament is stained, forget it bro. There is no such thing as easy road to heaven because it will end u up in hell.there are no two ways about it. Saying am jealous of u catholics is only trying to digress from the subjest matter. If u have read all my previous posts.u would see beyond every doubt that i have stated point blank with cogent proofs that purgatory doesnt exist.

Fasholu: jesus is for sinners not for saints, Have you gone through life, People have to engage in sinful deeds just to make ends meet, Or do you think life is that that easy, not all christains can afford three square meals a day, whether you like it or not humans are gonna sin, the average man sins 7 times a day, even the vicar of christ, we're not angels na, we are not God, and only God is good, Our forefathers who died in sins without the chance to know Jesus, Where do you think they are going to, Purgatory of course, Cos you've gat to know the gravity of your sins, so that you can be corrected, Nothing defiled shall enter heaven..Man, So the purgatory is there to make you suffer for your sins so that you can be corrected and made pure to enter the kingdom of God.. Do you understand why there's a purgatory now?? #Proudly Catholic

bro..all these things you are saying will only have a negative effect on the feeble minded man in that you are giving him room to commit sin and say 'well, God understands,afterall i will suffer small in purgatory' kindly check the previous pages..my answers to this ur questions are there.. May God help u.amen

We shouldnt av experienced suffering or do any work since Christ has paid it all......2petr 4:12>>my dear friend,do not be surprised at the painful test u are suffering, as though something unusual were happening to you. Rather be glad that you are sharing Christ suffering......IF HE HAS PAID IT ALL,WHY MUST WE SHARE?

italo:

Read 1 Cor 3:15

Tell me where people suffer loss, yet are saved as through fire.

Heaven or hell?

Note: we know that no one suffers loss in heaven and no one is saved in hell.

So where is that verse talking about?

Bros, this your question is diversionary and has nothing to do with purgatory.

Let's look at the context and see what we can make out of it.

1Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

In verse 12, it talks and relates to our earthly works and services to "gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;" hence the analogy of;

Refined by fire (profitable) if they are - gold, silver, precious stones - selfless services/works

Burnt by fire (waste) if they are - wood, hay, stubble - works/services done for self glory and pride

The passage itself is not about judgement as it never relates to any sin committed or immoral character exhibited by these saints.

Verses 13 to 15 explain further by limiting the passage to reward for our (the saints) labour of love and how they were executed (selflessly or by vain-glory).

italo:

Permit me to ignore you.

Have you noticed that almost everyone has noticed that you have nothing sensible to offer?

Nothing! Zero! Empty!

why lieing to wht u said, u hav nt even said anytin tangible to show d existence of purgatory n yet ur feeln as if u hav said anytin. if u c white u cal it black, if ur tired u go n rest abeg.

basildemaria: We shouldnt av experienced suffering or do any work since Christ has paid it all......2petr 4:12>>my dear friend,do not be surprised at the painful test u are suffering, as though something unusual were happening to you. Rather be glad that you are sharing Christ suffering......IF HE HAS PAID IT ALL,WHY MUST WE SHARE?

my good friend..i like your zeal. But please dont read your bible upside down. That suffering you see there directly means persecution as is far different from what we are saying here. As a christian, jesus is saying we would suffer persecution. Are u now relating that with ur purgatory? Dnt be confused my dear. See. Even apostle paul was percecuted. It is not because of his sins Every real child of God must go through one persecution or the other since christ went through it.and persecution is not done to som1 because of his/her sins ok. Stop confusing yourself bro.
Shalom

I have been on this thread since morning and no catholic has bin able to vindicate himself on this subject matter. Well what a shame if u'd ask me for my comment on that..its really shameful

italo:

1 John 5:16.

What happens to a believer who tells a 'white lie' like. "I dont have money" when they have...just once...and didnt ask forgiveness before death.

Where does he/she go?

Heaven or hell?

1 John 5:16 is the unforgiveable sin. sinning against the holy spirit.

The person who didnt ask for forgiveness. assuming he doesnt make practice of it, God will weigh his heart condition, it is now left for God either to accept Him or not. Remember the salvation is not strictly by works, but by grace. If by works, no one will be saved.

@ mavister
Now that u v accepted evry1 must work on the Foundation which is Christ.....I would like to ask you,,, wat is d untrue element about purgatory?

Nd moreover ar u just replying based on ur hatred for d church,,cuz u dnt seem to read anytin contradictory to wat u say.

Harden not ur mind

amara.lizzy%40y:
i learnt 4rm dat pasage dat when christ was dead n was livin in spirit he went to preach 2 sum spirits in prison 4 dm 2 repent n acept God. Now christ has finish payn 4 our sins n has risen again notin lyk dat again.

Amii lets take it one by one, are you saying there was repentance after death?

basildemaria: @ mavister
Now that u v accepted evry1 must work on the Foundation which is Christ.....I would like to ask you,,, wat is d untrue element about purgatory?

now you come bro.. 1 Cor. 3:15.
"If any mans work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire."
As with any verse in the Bible, to fully understand it, we must look at it in its biblical context. Following is 1 Cor. 3:10-15
"According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But let each man be careful how he builds upon it.11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.12Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,13each mans work will become evident; for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each mans work.14If any mans work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward.15If any mans work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire."
The context speaks of Paul having planted the Corinthian church and that another person was building upon that work: verse 6 says,"I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth."Paul goes on to say that unless a person builds upon the foundation of Jesus, his work will be burned up the in the day of judgment (v. 13). See also, 1 Cor. 5:5; 2 Cor. 1:14; 1 Thess. 5:2).
Paul is simply using the terms that are familiar with the people of the time. Fire was the tool used to purify metals and to get rid of that which was unwanted, the dross. So too, on the day when our works are examined, the fire of judgment will both purify and remove. This will not affect our salvation, but it will affect our rewards. The theme of fire used as purification is also found in 2 Pet. 3:10-13. But this is not talking about becoming saved or staying saved.
1 Cor. 3:15does not teach purgatory as a place we go to in order to have some of our sins cleansed from us. It teaches that even though the person is justified by faith and cannot face damnation, his works will, however, be judged on "that day." Those works which are good will survive the fires of judgment the way gold, silver, and precious stones can survive fire. But false works will be consumed the way fire consumes wood, hay, and straw. What is left has no bearing on whether or not we are saved. It has to do with rewards in heaven.
Paul goes on to say in 1 Cor. 4:5,"Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of mens' hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God."
Note also, 1 Pet. 1:6-7,"In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,7that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ."
2 Pet. 3:10-13,"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!13But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells."
Purgatory is a dangerous doctrine that makes the Cross of Christ insufficient by requiring the person to undergo suffering in order to be made worthy of being with God. This is a false teaching and is to be avoided. We are justified by faith ( Rom. 5:1), not by faith and works ( Rom. 3:28).

Lady Excellency:

Bros, this your question is diversionary and has nothing to do with purgatory.

Let's look at the context and see what we can make out of it.

1Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

In verse 12, it talks and relates to our earthly works and services to "gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;" hence the analogy of;

Refined by fire (profitable) if they are - gold, silver, precious stones - selfless services/works

Burnt by fire (waste) if they are - wood, hay, stubble - works/services done for self glory and pride

The passage itself is not about judgement as it never relates to any sin committed or immoral character exhibited by these saints.

Verses 13 to 15 explain further by limiting the passage to reward for our (the saints) labour of love and how they were executed (selflessly or by vain-glory).

If you cannot see that that passage is talking about judgement, arguing with my shoe will be more profitable than arguing with you.

mavister: yes bro..the word 'trinity' is not written explicitly or in the bible.but should one now say there is no trinity? Am not giving you an excuse to say purgatory is real because its not in the bible.. Now Its just like saying ok. I dont see where the bible said one should not smoke so therefore smoking is not sin...my dear friend..every word and scripture in the bible is giving unto man to understand by the holy spirit..so if one who is not spirit filled reads the bible...he begins to contradict it.. Ok now.the bible says u should not put away your wife unless for adultery, so do u mean if ur wife commits adultery u just divorce her away because ''u saw it in the bible''? Alot of people are making lots of mistakes today because they lack the inspiration and insight of the holy spirit.. Let me leave u with some bible passages as assignment for u to know that the trinity is biblical. I pray the holy spirit opens ur eyes..amen

Genesis 1:26
"LetUSmake man inOURimage":Three plural pronouns,(We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8.The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.
Genesis 19:24
"Then Yahweh [on earth in human form] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh [in spirit form in heaven] out of heaven. Genesis 19:24. In this text Abraham is visited by three individuals, one being Yahweh and the other two angels. Here we have God on the earth (Jesus) and God in heaven (father) sending down fire from heaven. This incident when Abraham met with Yahweh God, is what Jesus referred to when he said,"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he sawitand was glad."(John 8:56)The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that Jesus visited Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19.
Isaiah 6
Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead.
Isaiah 40-55
Jesus echoes the "I AM" statements in Isaiah chapters 40-55. This spectacular link explores over 20 different passages in Isaiah and John.
Isaiah 45:23-24
I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.
Micah 5:2
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.
New Testament Trinity Proof Texts
Mark 2:5-12
Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sinsbut God alone?
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
John 5:18
For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 8:58
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he sawitand was glad."The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them,"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.
John 10:33
"I and the Father are one."The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. ...Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'?"
John 12:41 + Isaiah 6
A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6.This proves Jesus is Yahweh.

@ bolded: Now you see where exactly you flaw ur own argument. Trinity as a word like purgatory didnt come up at all in the scriptures but yet you and I know that our God exists in perfect unity of 3 persons.
You dont have to go thru all the trouble of explaining trinity to me because the catholic church which teaches me has already affirmed my belief in that subject. I quite agree with you bro when you say that it is the spirit that gives one a clear understanding of scripture. Before the Catholic Church comes up with something that it holds as a doctrine it seeks the guidance of the holy spirit. Christ himself promised that he would give the church the holy spirit to guide it....the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church. Why do you think that despite everything the church has passed through...persecution, crusades, inquisition, schism and most recently reformation the Catholic Church still stands and upholds what it belives to be true...a truth she was taught by the holy spirit. Though we are many but we make up one body in Christ and it is the same holy spirit that bestows different gifts on all of us. So my brother pray to the spirit to let you see the truth as it is being revealed through the church.

The Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches false doctrine of "transubstantiation".The Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches are bitterly divided to this very day over the Eucharist, both claiming their own "church tradition" is the correct one. Transubstantiation is a close cousin to Gnostic theology because both false doctrines claim that "things are not what they appear".
Not even John Paul II can make right, a baptism that is wrong according to the Bible!
Catholic Baptism is not Bible baptism!
The following list give a summation of what we have been trying to emphasize. If the Bible is a Catholic book, and if the bible was compiled by the catholics just as they said :
*.1. Why does it condemn clerical dress? (Matt. 23:5-6).
*.2. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary? (Luke 11:27-28).
*.3. Why does it show that all Christians are priests? (1 Pet. 2:5,9).
*.4. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11).
*.5. Why does it teach that all Christians are saints? (1 Cor. 1:2).
*.6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5).
*.7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).
*.8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"? (Matt. 23:9).
*.9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11).
*.10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5).
*.11. Why does it teach that a bishop must be a married man? (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).
*.12. Why is it opposed to the primacy of Peter? (Luke 22:24-27).
*.13. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26).
*.14. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?

Reread and comprehend before rushing to give a reply of frustrated debater

The passage itself is not about judgement as it never relates to any sin committed or immoral character exhibited by these saints.

italo:

If you cannot see that that passage is talking about judgement, arguing with my shoe will be more profitable than arguing with you.