Joshthefirst: it is required to be there.
Eternal justice requires it to be there.
Will you debunk justice too? Or debunk consciousness?

It is justice to punish a man for a crime for eternity, with eternal torture right ? And call the torturer a loving God. When people who just ask for some sign this tortuter exists or pray they believe his torture and his saving grace from this torture. Very smart.

Uyi Iredia:

It is justice to punish a man for a crime for eternity, with eternal torture right ? And call the torturer a loving God. When people who just ask for some sign this tortuter exists or pray they believe his torture and his saving grace from this torture. Very smart.

brother uyi, i respect your opinions alot, and i know that deep down inside you, you know that there is God, but you cam not reconcile the idea of God with what is happening around us today, but i want to assure you that there are answers to all your questions about life, and these answers are'nt found in atheistic journals or articles, the answers to your questions are found in the bible, i know you've mentioned earlier that you plan on reading the entire bible, i would encourage you to do that, and i would love for you to start with the gospel of john after you've finished reading john proceed to the book of revelation and pls brother read these books with an open mind, and if after you've finished reading them you still do not have answers to your questions, i won't disturb you on nairaland again.

texanomaly:
Only Catholics believe in outer darkness?

Outer darkness and purgatory aren't the same thing

Logicboy03:



Outer darkness and purgatory aren't the same thing

Hmmm
You are right they are different. Sorry

bolaino: brother uyi, i respect your opinions alot, and i know that deep down inside you, you know that there is God, but you cam not reconcile the idea of God with what is happening around us today, but i want to assure you that there are answers to all your questions about life, and these answers are'nt found in atheistic journals or articles, the answers to your questions are found in the bible, i know you've mentioned earlier that you plan on reading the entire bible, i would encourage you to do that, and i would love for you to start with the gospel of john after you've finished reading john proceed to the book of revelation and pls brother read these books with an open mind, and if after you've finished reading them you still do not have answers to your questions, i won't disturb you on nairaland again.

lol. Bolaino have you read the bible through from Genesis to Revelation. . . With an open mind?

Reading the Bible wit an open mind can make a Christian convert

macof: Reading the Bible wit an open mind can make a Christian convert

I always get baffled when you say these things.

The only way one might have a chance at getting me to begin to doubt is to keep me from studying Gods word.

All of life's answers are in there.

Wow!

This thread is still moving fast...

Joshthefirst: he was beaten and demeaned and disgraced. What do you mean who wouldn't do that? He was wounded and spat upon and killed for what he didn't do. Who wouldn't do that?
He was tormented and tortured and grasped by the cold hands of death. Who wouldn't do that?

He bore the punishment of his enemies and died for sinners who might later reject him and mock his sacrifice.
Who wouldn't do that?

Scarcely for a righteous man would one give his life, but God showed forth his great love for us in that why we were yet sinners, christ died for us

I find this reply of yours most vacuous.Jesus had foreknowledge of all that would happen to him.He knew that his suffering was infinitesimal compared to the glory that would follow it.His reward would be eternal just like humans would go to hell forever for their finite sins.You talk about him being demeaned,ridiculed,scorched and bla as if he is the only person in history to have undergone that.His method of execution was typical of roman criminals but yet u xtians try to make it seem exceptional n otherworldly.Jesus died knowing he'd wake up in 3 days.Not only that,he knew he'd become a god too n all power in heaven n earth would be given to him.Tell me,what's the sacrifice in that?Human beings have dealt with more.Humans have given their lives for various causes knowing full well that they won't come back or wake up in 3 days.All humans must and would die.Death is inevitable.Your talk as if Jesus had a monopoly of death,like we won't all die,like you won't die.Death seems to you like something too huge only jesus could bear it.Yet humans die daily,some in the most gruesome n painful ways.A friend of mine had to struggle all his life before death took him from us.He never enjoyed life.Struggling,hustling n struggling even more till he died young.And he ain't coming back.A former mate of mine has been thrown into mourning just last week she lost her beloved younger brother in an accident,and he aint rising in 3 days.You too as had as it might be to conceive would die someday n whether u like it or not u wont come back.Jesus didn't die for anybody but himself.

Joshthefirst: I always get baffled when you say these things.

The only way one might have a chance at getting me to begin to doubt is to keep me from studying Gods word.

All of life's answers are in there.

The fastest way atheist are formed is by reading the Bible

Beretta92: I find this reply of yours most vacuous.Jesus had foreknowledge of all that would happen to him.He knew that his suffering was infinitesimal compared to the glory that would follow it.His reward would be eternal just like humans would go to hell forever for their finite sins.You talk about him being demeaned,ridiculed,scorched and bla as if he is the only person in history to have undergone that.His method of execution was typical of roman criminals but yet u xtians try to make it seem exceptional n otherworldly.Jesus died knowing he'd wake up in 3 days.Not only that,he knew he'd become a god too n all power in heaven n earth would be given to him.Tell me,what's the sacrifice in that?Human beings have dealt with more.Humans have given their lives for various causes knowing full well that they won't come back or wake up in 3 days.All humans must and would die.Death is inevitable.Your talk as if Jesus had a monopoly of death,like we won't all die,like you won't die.Death seems to you like something too huge only jesus could bear it.Yet humans die daily,some in the most gruesome n painful ways.A friend of mine had to struggle all his life before death took him from us.He never enjoyed life.Struggling,hustling n struggling even more till he died young.And he ain't coming back.A former mate of mine has been thrown into mourning just last week she lost her beloved younger brother in an accident,and he aint rising in 3 days.You too as had as it might be to conceive would die someday n whether u like it or not u wont come back.Jesus didn't die for anybody but himself.

Jesus knew it all before it would happen. But he wasn't a roman criminal. He underwent all these for others. Go ahead and die prematurely for someone on deathrow, die a horrible death for one who would probably later reject you and say you died for yourself.
Go and die for a condemned criminal when you have done nothing wrong.

That's the greatest sacrifice.

The seeming weakness of death brought about the awesome strength of ressurection and salvation for mankind who believes.

macof:

The fastest way atheist are formed is by reading the Bible

this is not true. It is very false

Joshthefirst: Jesus knew it all before it would happen. But he wasn't a roman criminal. He underwent all these for others. Go ahead and die prematurely for someone on deathrow, die a horrible death for one who would probably later reject you and say you died for yourself.
Go and die for a condemned criminal when you have done nothing wrong.

That's the greatest sacrifice.

The seeming weakness of death brought about the awesome strength of ressurection and salvation for mankind who believes.

I would die a thousand and one times for a wrong I didn't commit provided I know I'll resurrect on each occasion n would be greatly rewarded.U believe jesus is alive,don't u?So stop talking as if he really died in the first place.The way u talk about him dying for others is as if these others won't die anymore.Jesus didn't die for nobody,ok?

Try to understand the scripture.

Beretta92: I would die a thousand and one times for a wrong I didn't commit provided I know I'll resurrect on each occasion n would be greatly rewarded.U believe jesus is alive,don't u?So stop talking as if he really died in the first place.The way u talk about him dying for others is as if these others won't die anymore.Jesus didn't die for nobody,ok?

I doubt if you understand what you posted up there. What is important is not whether Christ died or resurrected, but for what purpose and what has the death accomplished? Anyone can die for someone, even the bible clearly stated that, but what we are looking at is the salvation and ceasation of death that the death and resurrection of Christ brought to those who believe, receive, endorse, understand and confess. You talked bitterly about your friend's early exist, well, i share your pain, but isn't it why Christ made all this sacrifice that your friend may live and not suffer to death? Knowledge of God's Word is surely a blessing.

Lordlexyy: I doubt if you understand what you posted up there. What is important is not whether Christ died or resurrected, but for what purpose and what has the death accomplished? Anyone can die for someone, even the bible clearly stated that, but what we are looking at is the salvation and ceasation of death that the death and resurrection of Christ brought to those who believe, receive, endorse, understand and confess. You talked bitterly about your friend's early exist, well, i share your pain, but isn't it why Christ made all this sacrifice that your friend may live and not suffer to death? Knowledge of God's Word is surely a blessing.

What are u saying?Don't people still die?isn't there pain n suffering yet in the world?didn't my friend still struggle n die a painful death?what exactly did jesus accomplish with his supposed sacrifice?

Beretta92: What are u saying?Don't people still die?isn't there pain n suffering yet in the world?didn't my friend still struggle n die a painful death?what exactly did jesus accomplish with his supposed sacrifice?

Honestly? He accomplished nothing.

People still die like before.

People sin even more than ever (according to christians)

More people are going to hell than heaven

Suffering abound both on belivers and nonbelievers

Joshthefirst: this is not true. It is very false

Many atheist here were deconverted by the Bible

Lordlexyy: I doubt if you understand what you posted up there. What is important is not whether Christ died or resurrected, but for what purpose and what has the death accomplished? Anyone can die for someone, even the bible clearly stated that, but what we are looking at is the salvation and ceasation of death that the death and resurrection of Christ brought to those who believe, receive, endorse, understand and confess. You talked bitterly about your friend's early exist, well, i share your pain, but isn't it why Christ made all this sacrifice that your friend may live and not suffer to death? Knowledge of God's Word is surely a blessing.

Dude shut up.

If it's about washing away sins, I can sacrifice my goat and cleans the land as it was done back in the days yet our ancestors didn't worship the dead goat

The goat even got the job done, the nature forces around the towns were always nourished but Jesus death was useless because nothing as improved since his death, terrorist bombing churches and Jesus just looks and dances skelewu in heaven. His worshipers ask for financial growth but still languish in poverty.

Jesus died a criminals death because he acted against the laws of Israel and the Jews wished him dead, the Romans killed him as they would any Jewish criminal

frank3.16:


Honestly? He accomplished nothing.

People still die like before.

People sin even more than ever (according to christians)

More people are going to hell than heaven

Suffering abound both on belivers and nonbelievers

Jesus a failed sacrifice
I rather rely on goats

frank3.16:


Honestly? He accomplished nothing.

People still die like before.

People sin even more than ever (according to christians)

More people are going to hell than heaven

Suffering abound both on belivers and nonbelievers

His death has accomplished virtually nothing yet these nutcases no go let person hear word.jesus died...jesus wept...jesus sacrificed...jesus bla bla bla...bullshit!

Beretta92: I would die a thousand and one times for a wrong I didn't commit provided I know I'll resurrect on each occasion n would be greatly rewarded.U believe jesus is alive,don't u?So stop talking as if he really died in the first place.The way u talk about him dying for others is as if these others won't die anymore.Jesus didn't die for nobody,ok?

Stop acting like a selfish iidiot. Do you see how you speak foolishly?

Jesus motive for dying was his love for us. He wanted to save us from eternal death. His reward was not really that he'd be greatly exalted and honoured(judge carefully). What exalt does he have now that he didn't have as God Almighty before he became a human being?
His real reward was the love and fulfilled accomplishment of redeeming many and saving mankind who has believed, presenting them to the father as citizens of heaven.
The aim and the accomplishment was not to get reward. It was to make men son's of God. This was a sacrifice of love. The very exaltation and honour he got was because of us still. If he was not raised from the dead, we would not have been justified completely, raised up.

It is pathetic that you think this sacrifice was to gain greater reward of honour and power for himself, when his sacrifice was to gain honour and power for others through himself.
He has made us children of God in him.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Hebrew 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

All was done for us.
It was a sacrifice borne out of love.

@josh,did u really need to insult me to get ur point across?Seems jesus' blood is yet to wash ur tongue.

Beretta92: @josh,did u really need to insult me to get ur point across?Seems jesus' blood is yet to wash ur tongue.

I'm sorry if I came across as offensive, I did not intend to.
But that is the exact way you were acting and speaking. Demeaning Jesus' sacrifice.

Beretta92: What are u saying?Don't people still die?isn't there pain n suffering yet in the world?didn't my friend still struggle n die a painful death?what exactly did jesus accomplish with his supposed sacrifice?

Knowledge is bliss my brother. The death and resurrection of Christ provided the escape from suffering, pain and premature death like the case of your friend. Your question as to what Christ sacrificial death accomplish exposes your unexposure and understanding of the scripture. Plenty accounts on healing, favour, safety, peace, protection among many Christians which i and my family are beneficiaries is a pointer to the awesomeness of Christ's death and resurrection. I understand how frustrating one can be after many attempts to understand God from a logical point of view. Those are dangerious precedence that can lead to unbelief, hatred, antagonistic = athiesm. I perfectly understand when folks come online to vent their aspersion on God for lack of spiritual revelation of who God is as clearly spelt out in the scripture. Humility to submit to God and get tutored by His Spirit like the case of Op is the remedy to unbelief.

macof:

Dude shut up.

If it's about washing away sins, I can sacrifice my goat and cleans the land as it was done back in the days yet our ancestors didn't worship the dead goat

The goat even got the job done, the nature forces around the towns were always nourished but Jesus death was useless because nothing as improved since his death, terrorist bombing churches and Jesus just looks and dances skelewu in heaven. His worshipers ask for financial growth but still languish in poverty.

Jesus died a criminals death because he acted against the laws of Israel and the Jews wished him dead, the Romans killed him as they would any Jewish criminal

Ignorance and frustrationt has gotten a better part of you. There's no need trying to convince you. But be rest assure that every idle word will give an account. Bible talks about those who speak evil of what they know nothing about. Instead of being bossy and puff up, wisdom demand that you compare knowledge to ascertain which point to the right part. Unfortunately, after many years no one has been able to successfuly disprove the scripture. Evidence on miracles, healing, NDE abound this day of the resurrection of Christ which i'm a witness and a partaker. God help you.

Lordlexyy: Ignorance and frustrationt has gotten a better part of you. There's no need trying to convince you. But be rest assure that every idle word will give an account. Bible talks about those who speak evil of what they know nothing about. Instead of being bossy and puff up, wisdom demand that you compare knowledge to ascertain which point to the right part. Unfortunately, after many years no one has been able to successfuly disprove the scripture. Evidence on miracles, healing, NDE abound this day of the resurrection of Christ which i'm a witness and a partaker. God help you.

@bold, lol. funny

@blue, where's the evidence on miracles?

Lordlexyy: Ignorance and frustrationt has gotten a better part of you. There's no need trying to convince you. But be rest assure that every idle word will give an account. Bible talks about those who speak evil of what they know nothing about. Instead of being bossy and puff up, wisdom demand that you compare knowledge to ascertain which point to the right part.

Unfortunately, after many years no one has been able to successfuly disprove the scripture. Evidence on miracles, healing, NDE abound this day of the resurrection of Christ which i'm a witness and a partaker. God help you.

I say things about what I don't know
I know ur Bible and all Christians says

Wat do u think about pagans?

Unfortunately no one has been able to successfully disprove DC comics, yet only little kids or adults wit brain disorder believes that superman is real and alive fighting alien villains in space

PS. There's a lot of evidence to disprove ur script. The script can even be used against itself.

Joshthefirst:
I'm sorry if I came across as offensive, I did not intend to.
But that is the exact way you were acting and speaking. Demeaning Jesus' sacrifice.

It's my view and am entitled to it.

Lordlexyy: Knowledge is bliss my brother. The death and resurrection of Christ provided the escape from suffering, pain and premature death like the case of your friend. Your question as to what Christ sacrificial death accomplish exposes your unexposure and understanding of the scripture. Plenty accounts on healing, favour, safety, peace, protection among many Christians which i and my family are beneficiaries is a pointer to the awesomeness of Christ's death and resurrection. I understand how frustrating one can be after many attempts to understand God from a logical point of view. Those are dangerious precedence that can lead to unbelief, hatred, antagonistic = athiesm. I perfectly understand when folks come online to vent their aspersion on God for lack of spiritual revelation of who God is as clearly spelt out in the scripture. Humility to submit to God and get tutored by His Spirit like the case of Op is the remedy to unbelief.

Seems you and your family alone have a monopoly of these goodies from calvary.My friend was a christian too.Trusted Jesus till he breathed his last.You know,he could have used some good healing from calvary.