Bidam: When you see a scripture that says:Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law Romans 3:31. What Law do you honestly think Paul was advocating

You still don't get my point, am not saying the law is bad. The bible said "the law is holy and just". My point is that you don't have to fulfil the law to gain God's approval. Righteousness(right standing with God) is by faith(grace) and not by fulfilling the works of law. Buh if you allow the Holy spirit to perfect His works in your life, you will end up living a righteous and holy life without even trying to

fredx4:
You still don't get my point, am not saying the law is bad. The bible said "the law is holy and just". My point is that you don't have to fulfil the law to gain God's approval. Righteousness(right standing with God) is by faith(grace) and not by fulfilling the works of law. Buh if you allow the Holy spirit to perfect His works in your life, you will end up living a righteous and holy life without even trying to

oK I get your point..i tot you wanna tow the line of shdemidemi.

bizmahn: bros, at this point I think you are either just pretending not to see the points I clearly made or its just something else.You are the one that tried to show us a grace that appears to function totally at the exclusion of any type of works and a holy ghost that can inhabit people even when they posses sins.
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First of all I tried to show you that the Holy Ghost of the bible is "holy" & cannot inhabit a sinful vessel and secondly I tried to expose you to the fact that grace demands works.You called it works of love & helping the needy but I said it goes beyond that and it encompassed all "works of righteousness".
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I also tried to make you understand that this works of righteousness which you probably call "works of love" is also contained in the works of the law as moral laws & this moral laws or works of righteousness or works of love was not abolished in the new testament but yet fully enforced.
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You presented a grace devoid of any atom of works & efforts to live right as all misguided grace preachers do on this forum but I tried to prove to you that surely God expects us to work with that grace.
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If you don't get it now then go back & read the thread all over till you do.I don't think I'll go on repeating myself anymore.

I'll respond to only one of your points, if you need clarifications on the others go back to see my response to your previous comments.

You said the Holy Spirit can not dwell in a believer that commits sin: first of all like I pointed out earlier the Holy Spirit dwells in man's spirit(that is incorruptible) and not in man's flesh. If you are a born again christian your spirit cannot commit sin, its only your flesh and your mind(soul) that can commit sin.
Secondly, what qualifies you for the Holy spirit is not fulfilling the law, it is God's grace. If God wanted to give the Holy Spirit to only those living a holy life(according to God's standard) do you think anybody will be qualified for it?
Lastly the Holy Spirit will never leave you when you need him most(which is when you are living in sin), one of his functions is to make us perfect. Btw when you commit sin its not the Holy Spirit that convicts you its your conscience. The Holy Spirit is not there to condemn you rather to comfort you and help you live your life to God's standard.

Bidam: Nope that is false...so many translation renders your statement invalid. LIKE THIS ONE HERE.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Are we abolishing Moses' Teachings by this faith? That's unthinkable! Rather, we are supporting Moses' Teachings. Romans 3:31

I understand you pick this translation because you think it lends credence to what you think the verse is saying. Take time to read from the top of the chapter and find out why the question was asked in the first place.

While you are at it- note that the law is weak, meaning it can't save (was not made to save)

shdemidemi:

I understand you pick this translation because you think it lends credence to what you think the verse is saying. Take time to read from the top of the chapter and find out why the question was asked in the first place.

While you are at it- note that the law is weak, meaning it can't save (was not made to save)

Rather you are the guy not using your study tools but rather misinterpreting scriptures. Even IN CONTEXT your eisegesis is wrong.iF sin exist, the law will always exist.It is not about the mosaic laws.It's about the first Adam(sinful man) that violates the hidden laws of nature.

fredx4:
I'll respond to only one of your points, if you need clarifications on the others go back to see my response to your previous comments.

You said the Holy Spirit can not dwell in a believer that commits sin: first of all like I pointed out earlier the Holy Spirit dwells in man's spirit(that is incorruptible) and not in man's flesh. If you are a born again christian your spirit cannot commit sin, its only your flesh and your mind(soul) that can commit sin.
Secondly, what qualifies you for the Holy spirit is not fulfilling the law, it is God's grace. If God wanted to give the Holy Spirit to only those living a holy life(according to God's standard) do you think anybody will be qualified for it?
Lastly the Holy Spirit will never leave you when you need him most(which is when you are living in sin), one of his functions is to make us perfect. Btw when you commit sin its not the Holy Spirit that convicts you its your conscience. The Holy Spirit is not there to condemn you rather to comfort you and help you live your life to God's standard.

@BOLD.the Holy Spirit actually convicts us.

John 16:8 (NEB) "When he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world, and show where right and wrong and judgment lie. He will convict them of wrong..."

Bidam: Rather you are the guy not using your study tools but rather misinterpreting scriptures. Even IN CONTEXT your eisegesis is wrong.iF sin exist, the law will always exist.It is not about the mosaic laws.It's about the first Adam(sinful man) that violates the hidden laws of nature.

Hmmm...Do you accept sin is called sin when the law (in this case, the mosaic law) is trespassed or broken?

I am sure you will accept that the wages or the resultant effect of breaking the law is death ,or do you?

Bidam: @BOLD.the Holy Spirit actually convicts us.

John 16:8 (NEB) "When he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world, and show where right and wrong and judgment lie. He will convict them of wrong..."

John 16:8-9(kjv) "and when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement; Of sin, because they believe not on me". The verse said the Holy spirit will reprove the world(not christians) of sin(not sins just one sin) because they believe not on Jesus( christians already believe on Jesus so there is no need for the Holy Spirit to reprove them of it again). You have to understand that the king james version is the closest interpretation to the original text all other version try to make it more easier to understand and sometimes their own personal interpretation of the verse is wrong.

[quote author=fredx4]There's been a lot of misconceptions about the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, and I'll try my best to clarify some of them.
1. Speaking in tongues is not for everybody: every christian can speak in tongues. The problem is some christians confuse it with speaking with divers tongues classified as a gift of the Holy Spirit in corinthians. Speaking with divers tongues and interpretation (which is for the edification of the church) is a special gift for some people but speaking in tongues( which is for your own edification) is for everyone
2. You have to be holy to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit: the most common argument is tha God is holy and cannot dwell in an unclean vessel, the question is were you holy before you got born again. One of the functions of the Holy Spirit is make to make you live a holy life plus if you are already perfect and holy then why do you need the Holy Spirit. Besides the Holy Spirit dwells in your spirit(that is born again) and not your flesh( that is filled with corruption)
3. The Holy Spirit will leave you if live a sinful life: Jesus Christ said the Holy Spirit will abide with you forever(john14:16) I don't know where most people get the doctrine that if you commit sin the Holy Spirit will leave you from. The Holy Spirit is there to make to make you perfect and will never leave you nor forsake you.
Madness!!!!

shdemidemi:

Hmmm...Do you accept sin is called sin when the law (in this case, the mosaic law) is trespassed or broken?

I am sure you will accept that the wages or the resultant effect of breaking the law is death ,or do you?

Yes to both.

fredx4:
John 16:8-9(kjv) "and when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement; Of sin, because they believe not on me". The verse said the Holy spirit will reprove the world(not christians) of sin(not sins just one sin) because they believe not on Jesus( christians already believe on Jesus so there is no need for the Holy Spirit to reprove them of it again). You have to understand that the king james version is the closest interpretation to the original text all other version try to make it more easier to understand and sometimes their own personal interpretation of the verse is wrong.

It applies to both.We are in the world and as far as scripture is concerned the salvation of our souls is not immediate.Here is a scripture to run with. "My conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit" (Rom. 9:1).
You can't separate the Holy Spirit from a believers conscience.

Bidam: It applies to both.We are in the world and as far as scripture is concerned the salvation of our souls is not immediate.Here is a scripture to run with. "My conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit" (Rom. 9:1).
You can't separate the Holy Spirit from a believers conscience.

Your conscience is the voice of your spirit and not the voice of the Holy Spirit, don't get it mixed up.

fredx4:
Your conscience is the voice of your spirit and not the voice of the Holy Spirit, don't get it mixed up.

How does the Holy Spirit speak to you?

@mercy what do you mean by madness? If you have anything you don't understand in the post, feel free to ask me.

Bidam: How does the Holy Spirit speak to you?

Don't get me wrong, am not saying that the Holy spirit can't communicate with your spirit. What am saying is that its not the Holy Spirit that condemns you when you sin, its your spirit(conscience). And what I initially meant was condemn not convict.

Bidam: Yes to both.

Thank you.

So what exactly did God send His son to condemn? Is it the law of Moses, sin or the resultant effect of sin(death)?

Bidam: How does the Holy Spirit speak to you?

The bible never said the Holy Spirit will speak to us or did it?

fredx4:
I'll respond to only one of your points, if you need clarifications on the others go back to see my response to your previous comments.

You said the Holy Spirit can not dwell in a believer that commits sin: first of all like I pointed out earlier the Holy Spirit dwells in man's spirit(that is incorruptible) and not in man's flesh. If you are a born again christian your spirit cannot commit sin, its only your flesh and your mind(soul) that can commit sin.
Secondly, what qualifies you for the Holy spirit is not fulfilling the law, it is God's grace. If God wanted to give the Holy Spirit to only those living a holy life(according to God's standard) do you think anybody will be qualified for it?
Lastly the Holy Spirit will never leave you when you need him most(which is when you are living in sin), one of his functions is to make us perfect. Btw when you commit sin its not the Holy Spirit that convicts you its your conscience. The Holy Spirit is not there to condemn you rather to comfort you and help you live your life to God's standard.

Since the spirit of man is incorruptible according to your definition why will christians that sin against God be cast into hell fire spirit,soul & body.Besides where is it stated in your bible that the spirit of man is incorruptible even when he falls into sin.
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I won't continue going round with you on this but let us conclude that the "holy spirit" of your own bible indwells even sinful christians but the Holy Spirit of my own bible will never.... I repeat NEVER indwell a sinful vessel.Only an evil spirit will occupy a sinful human abode.Period!

bizmahn:
Since the spirit of man is incorruptible according to your definition why will christians that sin against God be cast into hell fire spirit,soul & body.Besides where is it stated in your bible that the spirit of man is incorruptible even when he falls into sin.
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I won't continue going round with you on this but let us conclude that the "holy spirit" of your own bible indwells even sinful christians but the Holy Spirit of my own bible will never.... I repeat NEVER indwell a sinful vessel.Only an evil spirit will occupy a sinful human abode.Period!

Okay no problem.

fredx4:
Don't get me wrong, am not saying that the Holy spirit can't communicate with your spirit. What am saying is that its not the Holy Spirit that condemns you when you sin, its your spirit(conscience). And what I initially meant was condemn not convict.

Even sinners have conscience that doesn't condemn them when they sin,it rather convicts them.The only thing that can condemn sinners is when they reject the Word of God.

shdemidemi:

The bible never said the Holy Spirit will speak to us or did it?

Acts 13 describes a situation at the church in Antioch. Verse 2 says, "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them."

Who was the Holy Spirit speaking to in this instance

shdemidemi:

Thank you.

So what exactly did God send His son to condemn?

John 3:17

Amplified Bible (AMP)

17 For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.

Is it the law of Moses, sin or the resultant effect of sin(death)?

You tell us you are the rabbi.

Bidam: Acts 13 describes a situation at the church in Antioch. Verse 2 says, "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them."

Who was the Holy Spirit speaking to in this instance

Mr Bidam, what happened at Pentecost will not happen to Christians today. I have told you times without number to take your mind off what these apostles experienced at Pentecost; like you would experience the same today. In the Old Testament, they had three major feast, namely - the feast of Passover

-the feast of the first fruit(Pentecost)

-the feast of tabernacle

As Christians, we moved from Passover(death of Christ) to Pentecost. Now, we are at the gathering of the saints (the feast of tabernacle) where we should sit and learn God's word. Many emergent Christian still pitch their tent at the Pentecost (constantly thinking God will deal with them with signs) after the scripture plainly says it is the Jews that seek a sign, Gentiles seek wisdom and understanding.

The bible makes the ministry of the Holy Spirit clear, it says the Holy Spirit wld guide me into all truth and make me remember that which I have learnt. He has not come to speak apart from what was said in the Books.

Hebrews 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The bible says God spoke and not He will speak, even now in these last days He spoke to us by the Word (Jesus).

Bidam: John 3:17

Amplified Bible (AMP)

17 For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him. You tell us you are the rabbi.

Stop the frivolous gesture and answer the question sincerely.

Romans 8

3 For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [[a]the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [[b]subdued, overcame, [c]deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice],

So, back to my question- what exactly did God send His son to condemn/subdue/overcome, Is it the law of Moses or the resultant effect of sin?

[quote author=shdemidemi]

Mr Bidam, what happened at Pentecost will not happen to Christians today. I have told you times without number to take your mind off what these apostles experienced at Pentecost; like you would experience the same today. In the Old Testament, they had three major feast, namely - the feast of Passover

-the feast of the first fruit(Pentecost)

-the feast of tabernacle

Paul kept these feasts and he encouraged us to do so in principle.


Acts 20:16 - For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

1 Corinthians 16:8 - But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.



Cor. 5:8 - Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

So it's either you are a liar here or you are calling apostle Paul a liar.Choose one.

As Christians, we moved from Passover(death of Christ) to Pentecost. Now, we are at the gathering of the saints (the feast of tabernacle) where we should sit and learn God's word. Many emergent Christian still pitch their tent at the Pentecost (constantly thinking God will deal with them with signs) after the scripture plainly says it is the Jews that seek a sign, Gentiles seek wisdom and understanding.

You are not the one to determine the times and seasons and what God wants for his people.Let the word of God and His Spirit do that.

The bible makes the ministry of the Holy Spirit clear, it says the Holy Spirit wld guide me into all truth and make me remember that which I have learnt. He has not come to speak apart from what was said in the Books.

He doesn't only speak through books.He speaks through human lips.

The bible says God spoke and not He will speak, even now in these last days He spoke to us by the Word (Jesus).

Bro...Baba God dey speak to His church even now. The truth is He doesn't Go contrary to His written word(logos).

shdemidemi:

Stop the frivolous gesture and answer the question sincerely.



So, back to my question- what exactly did God send His son to condemn/subdue/overcome, Is it the law of Moses or the resultant effect of sin?

I dId with a scripture to validate it. The onus is on you to tell us otherwise.

Bidam: Paul kept these feasts and he encouraged us to do so in principle.Acts 20:16 - For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.
1 Corinthians 16:8 - But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.


Cor. 5:8 - Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

So it's either you are a liar here or you are calling apostle Paul a liar.Choose one.

Ask yourself the question, what exactly was he constantly going to these people he called his brothers in the flesh for?

As for 1 cor 5:8, was Paul telling these church/Gentiles to practice these feast literally from the verse you quoted?

Do you literally practice these feast yourself today?

Bidam: . He doesn't only speak through books.He speaks through human lips.

where in the bible did God tell you He would speak to you/church through human lips?

Bidam: .
Bro...Baba God dey speak to His church even now. The truth is He doesn't Go contrary to His written word(logos).

If I accept that God speaks to the church apart from the Word, why do people who seem to hear from God through personal spiritual experience contradict themselves?

Put it this way, if we bring ten surgeons to diagnose a patient. We would have 10 similar report but, bring ten people who claim they hear directly from God to analyse a particular issue; we would have different and contradicting reports.

Stick to scriptures bro, you can't go wrong.

shdemidemi:

Ask yourself the question, what exactly was he constantly going to these people he called his brothers in the flesh for?

I don't know, you tell me.

As for 1 cor 5:8, was Paul telling these church/Gentiles to practice these feast literally from the verse you quoted?

Do you literally practice these feast yourself today?

I think i mentioned principle.What are the relevance of the feasts? why should they be mentioned in Paul's epistles? Are there principles to be gleaned from those feasts? God wouldn't have initiated it if there is nothing to be gleaned from it.

shdemidemi: where in the bible did God tell you He would speak to you/church through human lips?



If I accept that God speaks to the church apart from the Word, why do people who seem to hear from God through personal spiritual experience contradict themselves?

I already showed you a scripture where God spoke through human lips(acts13:2) the Holy Ghost doesn't speak through thin air. . If it contradicts the logos(WORD) then it is not God, that is why we study to show ourselves approved.

Paul had personal spiritual experience which is scriptural.. i never said it should be used to elevate it, rather than God's word.Experiences are good but they should not be elevated over God's word.They should rather validate God's word.In terms of contradictions may be you could cite some examples for us too see. But 'my opinion" is if it is God it is genuine and backed by His Word. Most times the problem is not from God but the vessel(recipient).

Put it this way, if we bring ten surgeons to diagnose a patient. We would have 10 similar report but, bring ten people who claim they hear directly from God to analyse a particular issue; we would have different and contradicting reports.

Like i said it is the vessel and not God that has the problem.God is always speaking.

Stick to scriptures bro, you can't go wrong.

We are living epistles not logos. God does nothing except He pours out His Spirit. You need the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues to understand deeper dimensions of the Word bro..If not you will be reading the bible like a newspaper and swallowing the ideologies of men like you are doing now.Cheers.

Bidam: I don't know, you tell me.

His wish was that his fellow brothers in the flesh(Jews) come to the realisation of the gospel of Christ which is by faith minus works.

rom 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off and banished from Christ for the sake of my brethren and instead of them, my natural kinsmen and my fellow countrymen.

Bidam:
I think i mentioned principle.What are the relevance of the feasts? why should they be mentioned in Paul's epistles? Are there principles to be gleaned from those feasts? God wouldn't have initiated it if there is nothing to be gleaned from it.

Looking from the Christian point of view today, we see a similarity with the progress the nation of Israel made with that which the church made.

On the day of Passover.. For the nation of Israel, the Blood of the lamb was put on lintels and doorpost to avoid the spirit of death. For Christians the blood of Jesus was shed to save us from the wages of sin.

Pentecost is celebrated on the fiftieth day after Passover...it signifies a time to harvest- to Israel physical harvest but to the church spiritual harvest which was initiated on that great day.

Today we are that dispensation of in-gathering where we should come together to eat the spiritual food of God(His Word)

The only principle I believe we should take from these feasts is to withdraw from adulterating the Word. In the old, Unleavened means bread without yeast. today, unleavened means the Word of God without adulteration.

Bidam: I already showed you a scripture where God spoke through human lips(acts13:2) the Holy Ghost doesn't speak through thin air. . If it contradicts the logos(WORD) then it is not God, that is why we study to show ourselves approved.

Paul had personal spiritual experience which is scriptural.. i never said it should be used to elevate it, rather than God's word.Experiences are good but they should not be elevated over God's word.They should rather validate God's word.In terms of contradictions may be you could cite some examples for us too see. But 'my opinion" is if it is God it is genuine and backed by His Word. Most times the problem is not from God but the vessel(recipient).

Like i said it is the vessel and not God that has the problem.God is always speaking.
We are living epistles not logos. God does nothing except He pours out His Spirit. You need the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues to understand deeper dimensions of the Word bro..If not you will be reading the bible like a newspaper and swallowing the ideologies of men like you are doing now.Cheers.

Has God ever spoken to you (outside scriptures) with a voice you can actually hear? If yes, describe His voice.